Kicked out of pharmacy school (maybe)

Started by Dynamic
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Dynamic

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I have a huge dilemma as the title of this thread speaks for itself. The reason for possibly being kicked out is due to my academic standing which is slightly below the required overall gpa of a 2.3. I'm still on academic probation. I understand that I need to bring it back up with better grades in future courses. But my point to all of this is IF I get kicked out of pharmacy school, will I be able to apply to another pharmacy school by completing pre-pharmacy courses and taking the PCAT and other necessary requirements of most schools? Would most schools take me seriously enough to consider me? This is assuming I do well on the pre-pharmacy courses as well as the PCAT.

I was more than halfway through the program so some of you should know how difficult that is. It wasn't due to failure to pass, it was due to failure to get a decent grade on my classes that I'm being dismissed.

I'm sure I can do well on the PCAT as well as the pre-pharmacy courses as I'm already familiar with the material. I just don't know what to do outside of pharmacy.
 
Dynamic said:
I have a huge dilemma as the title of this thread speaks for itself. The reason for possibly being kicked out is due to my academic standing which is slightly below the required overall gpa of a 2.3. I'm still on academic probation. I understand that I need to bring it back up with better grades in future courses. But my point to all of this is IF I get kicked out of pharmacy school, will I be able to apply to another pharmacy school by completing pre-pharmacy courses and taking the PCAT and other necessary requirements of most schools? Would most schools take me seriously enough to consider me? This is assuming I do well on the pre-pharmacy courses as well as the PCAT.

I was more than halfway through the program so some of you should know how difficult that is. It wasn't due to failure to pass, it was due to failure to get a decent grade on my classes that I'm being dismissed.

I'm sure I can do well on the PCAT as well as the pre-pharmacy courses as I'm already familiar with the material. I just don't know what to do outside of pharmacy.
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As my grandmother likes to say " you need to buckle down". I talked to many people ranging from P1 to P4 and pharmacy school is no cake walk, but maybe you need to re-evaluate your priorities and also find some better study habits.
 
I couldn't agree more. My studying habits are getting better though, no question about that. It was my fault in the beginning not taking pharmacy seriously enough. But right when I'm about to step out of the hole I dug myself in, I'm caught red-handed of being in one when I'm not suppose to be.
 
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I'm a bit confused, why would you need to re-take your pre-pharmacy classes?
 
Dynamic said:
I couldn't agree more. My studying habits are getting better though, no question about that. It was my fault in the beginning not taking pharmacy seriously enough. But right when I'm about to step out of the hole I dug myself in, I'm caught red-handed of being in one when I'm not suppose to be.
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Another thing I would do is proactively reach out to your advisor or asst dean and let them know what steps you are taking to improve you GPA (i.e increased studying hours, reducing or eliminating working part time). Im sure if you want it bad enough you can avoid being kicked out of school. Also, you wont be able to or will have a hard time trying to convince adcoms why you should be re-admitted to their school when you flunked out of another one.
 
Dynamic said:
I couldn't agree more. My studying habits are getting better though, no question about that. It was my fault in the beginning not taking pharmacy seriously enough. But right when I'm about to step out of the hole I dug myself in, I'm caught red-handed of being in one when I'm not suppose to be.
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Yeah...I have a hard time buying this. You can't be doing that great recently if you're STILL under a 2.3 and you haven't failed any classes.

Assuming a C not C- is passing, you'd have to have a MINIMUM of a 2.0 GPA in those "bad" semesters.

Even if you had FOUR SEMESTERS of straight C's, ONE SEMESTER of straight A's would bump you to a 2.4 - over the minimum.

This is clearly a continuing problem. Maybe pharmacy school just isn't for you.
 
I know a person who has been kicked out and admitted elsewhere. He retook the PCAT and finished off a few other prerequisites (as well as a bachelor's degree). It certainly isn't easy, and it certainly isn't guaranteed.

I think the most important thing in this situation is to figure out why you were academically deficient in the first place. If it is something that you think can be fixed (e.g., distracted by social life, personal problems, etc.), then make sure you take care of whatever the problem was before you fall into the same trap again. If it is something that can't be fixed (material was too difficult, you were completely uninterested, etc.), then it may be time to find an alternative path in life.
 
it would be tough but yes you can get into another school (I know someone who just did after failing to keep their grades up). You wouldn't need to re-take pre-pharmacy courses, but you may have to retake the PCAT depending on how long ago you took it the first time. Obviously see what you can do to redeem yourself at this school by talking to advisers, assistant dean's, etc. but if it unfortunately came to getting dismissed, yes you can go somewhere else.
 
Carboxide said:
Yeah...I have a hard time buying this. You can't be doing that great recently if you're STILL under a 2.3 and you haven't failed any classes.

Assuming a C not C- is passing, you'd have to have a MINIMUM of a 2.0 GPA in those "bad" semesters.

Even if you had FOUR SEMESTERS of straight C's, ONE SEMESTER of straight A's would bump you to a 2.4 - over the minimum.

This is clearly a continuing problem. Maybe pharmacy school just isn't for you.
Click to expand...

Sorry for not adding more info. I've just finished my fourth yr of pharmacy school out of 6. I'm in a school that doesn't go by the P1-P4 system. Once your accepted into the program, your in. No pre-pharmacy courses are needed when applying.

As for my gpa, I've taken so many courses where getting below a B- isn't good enough. That's how bad my gpa is. I have failed several courses in the past but have retaken them. Regardless, I'm still borderline. I would need a semester's worth of B- grades to bounce back.

I've asked myself the question of whether or not pharmacy is for me many times. Been told that by my peers as well.
 
Dynamic said:
Sorry for not adding more info. I've just finished my fourth yr of pharmacy school out of 6. I'm in a school that doesn't go by the P1-P4 system. Once your accepted into the program, your in. No pre-pharmacy courses are needed when applying.

As for my gpa, I've taken so many courses where getting below a B- isn't good enough. That's how bad my gpa is. I have failed several courses in the past but have retaken them. Regardless, I'm still borderline. I would need a semester's worth of B- grades to bounce back.

I've asked myself the question of whether or not pharmacy is for me many times. Been told that by my peers as well.
Click to expand...

pharmacy itself is not about the academic nonsense you're learning in school. if you can learn on the job, you will succeed. grin and bear it.. it's almost over!!!!!!

being a great pharmacist has VERY little to do with acing your classes.

so pharmacy itself,, is not what you need to be reconsidering.

reconsider HOW you're studying

go to learning support services (or similar) , get a learning style inventory .. that should be a good first start.. it will help you analyze your study habits (hell find one online even)
 
Carboxide said:
Yeah...I have a hard time buying this. You can't be doing that great recently if you're STILL under a 2.3 and you haven't failed any classes.

Assuming a C not C- is passing, you'd have to have a MINIMUM of a 2.0 GPA in those "bad" semesters.

Even if you had FOUR SEMESTERS of straight C's, ONE SEMESTER of straight A's would bump you to a 2.4 - over the minimum.

This is clearly a continuing problem. Maybe pharmacy school just isn't for you.
Click to expand...

I know in my program you need a minimum 2.3 GPA each semester (not cumulative) to get through. And with test averages sometimes being 65-70 with no curve, it isn't easy for everyone to get good grades. The OP's school could handle advancement the same way. So the OP could have a great semester, and then have under a 2.3 again 2nd semester of P3 year.

OP, was this your 1st or 2nd probation? If 2nd, you need to study really hard so you don't get a 3rd one. Going to classes, believe it or not, helps as well, as you'd most likely be doing useless things during that class time anyway (not sure if you go to class or not).

My friend did fail out of the pharmacy program, and he ended up getting a pharmaceutical sciences degree. Yeah he's gonna have huge loans, but at least he's getting some kind of a degree. Not sure about how reapplying to other schools will work, since they'll see that you failed out. Also, not sure if you'll want to put in the extra time applying and whatnot, and taking out more loans.

EDIT: you said 2.3 overall, so just pull your grades up and hopefully you'll be OK.
 
Dynamic said:
Sorry for not adding more info. I've just finished my fourth yr of pharmacy school out of 6. I'm in a school that doesn't go by the P1-P4 system. Once your accepted into the program, your in. No pre-pharmacy courses are needed when applying.

As for my gpa, I've taken so many courses where getting below a B- isn't good enough. That's how bad my gpa is. I have failed several courses in the past but have retaken them. Regardless, I'm still borderline. I would need a semester's worth of B- grades to bounce back.

I've asked myself the question of whether or not pharmacy is for me many times. Been told that by my peers as well.
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One semester of a B- average should NOT be a problem.

I think this speaks volumes about your abilities, unfortunately. Perhaps you should begin looking elsewhere.
 
ttopping said:
it would be tough but yes you can get into another school (I know someone who just did after failing to keep their grades up). You wouldn't need to re-take pre-pharmacy courses, but you may have to retake the PCAT depending on how long ago you took it the first time. Obviously see what you can do to redeem yourself at this school by talking to advisers, assistant dean's, etc. but if it unfortunately came to getting dismissed, yes you can go somewhere else.
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Maybe we know the same person!
 
there any way you can transfer into another program at your school, like an MS/MA or heck a 2nd BS/BA program and continue on that path? at least you'll get a degree out of it.
 
I sense that op just wants a pat in the back. Op obviously is going thru a hard time, but it is only part of the problem. C= pharmD. There is a minimum competency that a future pharmacist must meet to practice. You don't need stellar grade to get a degree. All you need is time and effort. Unless you have a medical problem or family hardship where you can ask student affair for one year behind, people flung because they party or do not study as hard as they should. Nobody can help you except yourself, op.
If you fail one class, it's an exception. If you fail in a pattern, you have a problem. Tell us the whole story and fix it.
 
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I want to thank everyone here for their support and opinions. It certainly has given me some direction of what I should do in my current situation.

I recognize the fact that I clearly wasn't studying enough. Grades matter in the situation I'm in. I agree with the point some of you have made that experience in the world of pharmacy is more important than grades. Being left behind is one thing, but the school must consider their reputation and does not want to appear as a school that only takes student's money should I fail to get out of probation.

If I do get kicked out, what can a half-trained pharmacy student do from there? I would have no choice but to major in something business related cause I minored in business which I did on the side. That didn't contribute to the problem. But I still want to stay involved with a health care related career since I've learned so much already.

What kind of health care career/major can I go into where I can prove myself to the adcoms that I'm clearly capable of succeeding in their program and that the pharmacy program I failed in was my mistake in which I bounced back from?
 
Dynamic said:
I want to thank everyone here for their support and opinions. It certainly has given me some direction of what I should do in my current situation.

I recognize the fact that I clearly wasn't studying enough. Grades matter in the situation I'm in. I agree with the point some of you have made that experience in the world of pharmacy is more important than grades. Being left behind is one thing, but the school must consider their reputation and does not want to appear as a school that only takes student's money should I fail to get out of probation.

If I do get kicked out, what can a half-trained pharmacy student do from there? I would have no choice but to major in something business related cause I minored in business which I did on the side. That didn't contribute to the problem. But I still want to stay involved with a health care related career since I've learned so much already.

What kind of health care career/major can I go into where I can prove myself to the adcoms that I'm clearly capable of succeeding in their program and that the pharmacy program I failed in was my mistake in which I bounced back from?
Click to expand...

If you really do want to continue with pharmacy and prove to others that your heart is set, I'd finish up a bachelor's in something related (you're probably halfway to a pharmacology or pharmaceutics degree) and reapply. In the meantime, I'd plan for backups...you said you wanted something business related and pertinent to healthcare, so maybe an MHA or even an MPH would be beneficial. An MBA also wouldn't be a bad choice, but there are a lot more of those floating around and it would be harder to distinguish yourself.

Good luck to you.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
If you really do want to continue with pharmacy and prove to others that your heart is set, I'd finish up a bachelor's in something related (you're probably halfway to a pharmacology or pharmaceutics degree) and reapply. In the meantime, I'd plan for backups...you said you wanted something business related and pertinent to healthcare, so maybe an MHA or even an MPH would be beneficial. An MBA also wouldn't be a bad choice, but there are a lot more of those floating around and it would be harder to distinguish yourself.

Good luck to you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. But after looking at MHA and MPH degrees, it doesn't look promising in terms of a job right out of school. It's too new compared to what I've studied.

Worst case scenario, I graduate with a degree in Health Services Management for the purpose of coming out with a degree from this school. But I would still want to pursue a career in pharmacy. I'm willing to take the pre-pharmacy courses in another school. If I do very well on those courses, will my gpa from pre-requisites be averaged out with my gpa from my old school where I got my degree?
 
type b pharmD, There has never been a more naive and clueless poster on SDN than you. What the hell are you talking about? You make a fool out of yourself nearly every time you type something. I am going to collect all of your posts and turn them into a book. I will call it "The Curious and Senseless Ramblings of a Naive and Clueless Pharmacy Student." Lets take a look at this gem of a post.

type b pharmD said:
pharmacy itself is not about the academic nonsense you're learning in school. if you can learn on the job, you will succeed. grin and bear it.. it's almost over!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Academic nonsense?!?!? If you can learn on the job you will succeed?!?!? What the hell are you talking about? Do you even read the crap you post? First off you are still a student in Pharmacy School. How the hell do you know what it takes to be a good pharmacist? Pharmacy School is just a big waste of time filled with "nonsense"? Maybe at the diploma mill school you attend it is filled with nonsense. What exactly are you going to "learn on the job" that will help you if you got nothing out of pharmacy school?

type b pharmD said:
being a great pharmacist has VERY little to do with acing your classes.

so pharmacy itself,, is not what you need to be reconsidering.

reconsider HOW you're studying

go to learning support services (or similar) , get a learning style inventory .. that should be a good first start.. it will help you analyze your study habits (hell find one online even)
Click to expand...

What?!?! How do you know what it takes to be a great pharmacist wise old student? There are plenty of good pharmacists who didn't "ace" every class. The OP is failing out of school. There is a difference here. All you are doing is regurgitating info other pharmacists have posted on here about school and grades.
 
On a side note, I'm ticked off that the people who cheat on exams at my school are moving forward in the program while I'm being screwed. I'm just ranting cause I'm still waiting for a response from the Dean. Plus I gotta wait a day longer since it's Memorial Day weekend too. Feels like an eternity
 
Dynamic said:
On a side note, I'm ticked off that the people who cheat on exams at my school are moving forward in the program while I'm being screwed. I'm just ranting cause I'm still waiting for a response from the Dean. Plus I gotta wait a day longer since it's Memorial Day weekend too. Feels like an eternity
Click to expand...

Memorial Day weekend is next weekend. Are you waiting for a response this weekend?
 
iphetamine said:
or finished a degree in computer science, pursue pharmacy and become an IT pharmacist.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good idea. But going in that order would mean 2 or more extra years of school for computer science, as a result I'll probably forget much of what I've learned in pharmacy. I'd rather pursue pharmacy first while the material is still fresh. Once a pharmacist, then I'll try IT.

Uh oh, I just realized that even if I get a fresh start at another pharmacy school, the job market for pharmacist would've been over saturated by the time I graduate. Just something I read from articles SDN members have posted in other threads
 
Dynamic said:
I have a huge dilemma as the title of this thread speaks for itself. The reason for possibly being kicked out is due to my academic standing which is slightly below the required overall gpa of a 2.3. I'm still on academic probation. I understand that I need to bring it back up with better grades in future courses. But my point to all of this is IF I get kicked out of pharmacy school, will I be able to apply to another pharmacy school by completing pre-pharmacy courses and taking the PCAT and other necessary requirements of most schools? Would most schools take me seriously enough to consider me? This is assuming I do well on the pre-pharmacy courses as well as the PCAT.

I was more than halfway through the program so some of you should know how difficult that is. It wasn't due to failure to pass, it was due to failure to get a decent grade on my classes that I'm being dismissed.

I'm sure I can do well on the PCAT as well as the pre-pharmacy courses as I'm already familiar with the material. I just don't know what to do outside of pharmacy.
Click to expand...
I would definitely recommend doing your best to stay in and finish your current program. Getting back into pharmacy after having been kicked out of one program is a daunting task and very few people actually succeed. If your overall GPA has taken a substantial hit because of your pharmacy school grades, that will put you at even more of a disadvantage. Getting academic letters will be probably not be possible, so your school choices will be limited to those not requiring academic letters.

You would not want to retake prerequisites unless they were ones you had not already completed. Schools will often average your grades if you retake the same class, so retaking what you already have good grades in is not going to boost your GPA. You would probably have to retake the PCAT since most places want recent exams.

Starting over would be crazy expensive too. If you can get through school at your current institution you will enter the profession sooner and avoid alot more debt. The financial incentive to succeed at your current school tremendous. We're talking like 300-400K in salary and 200-300K in new loans you would not have to take out.

Buckle down and find out what you need to do to boost your grades. Ask professors for help. Ask your classmates for help. Ask the lady with the Alligator purse for help. Figure out what distractions are keeping you back and work on getting rid of them. Don't work during school so that you have more time to study. Figure it out now instead of later. You aren't facing the dilemma yet. Right now you're just aware that you are on the path to one.
 
Dynamic said:
Uh oh, I just realized that even if I get a fresh start at another pharmacy school, the job market for pharmacist would've been over saturated by the time I graduate. Just something I read from articles SDN members have posted in other threads
Click to expand...

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bananaface said:
I would definitely recommend doing your best to stay in and finish your current program. Getting back into pharmacy after having been kicked out of one program is a daunting task and very few people actually succeed. If your overall GPA has taken a substantial hit because of your pharmacy school grades, that will put you at even more of a disadvantage. Getting academic letters will be probably not be possible, so your school choices will be limited to those not requiring academic letters.

You would not want to retake prerequisites unless they were ones you had not already completed. Schools will often average your grades if you retake the same class, so retaking what you already have good grades in is not going to boost your GPA. You would probably have to retake the PCAT since most places want recent exams.

Starting over would be crazy expensive too. If you can get through school at your current institution you will enter the profession sooner and avoid alot more debt. The financial incentive to succeed at your current school tremendous. We're talking like 300-400K in salary and 200-300K in new loans you would not have to take out.

Buckle down and find out what you need to do to boost your grades. Ask professors for help. Ask your classmates for help. Ask the lady with the Alligator purse for help. Figure out what distractions are keeping you back and work on getting rid of them. Don't work during school so that you have more time to study. Figure it out now instead of later. You aren't facing the dilemma yet. Right now you're just aware that you are on the path to one.
Click to expand...


I certainly will give this plenty of thought. Should the Dean allow me to stay, I will do my best not to make him regret his decision.

Hmmm, 300k-400k. That's quite a dream.

And sorry cycloketocaine for the reminder
 
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I've emailed a letter to both my advisor and Dean. I'll send in an actual letter if I don't get a response next week. I've stated the reasons why they shouldn't dismiss me and that I've shown improvement. The potential is there, I just need them to present the opportunity
 
MountainPharmD said:
type b pharmD, There has never been a more naive and clueless poster on SDN than you. What the hell are you talking about? You make a fool out of yourself nearly every time you type something. I am going to collect all of your posts and turn them into a book. I will call it "The Curious and Senseless Ramblings of a Naive and Clueless Pharmacy Student." Lets take a look at this gem of a post.



Academic nonsense?!?!? If you can learn on the job you will succeed?!?!? What the hell are you talking about? Do you even read the crap you post? First off you are still a student in Pharmacy School. How the hell do you know what it takes to be a good pharmacist? Pharmacy School is just a big waste of time filled with "nonsense"? Maybe at the diploma mill school you attend it is filled with nonsense. What exactly are you going to "learn on the job" that will help you if you got nothing out of pharmacy school?



What?!?! How do you know what it takes to be a great pharmacist wise old student? There are plenty of good pharmacists who didn't "ace" every class. The OP is failing out of school. There is a difference here. All you are doing is regurgitating info other pharmacists have posted on here about school and grades.
Click to expand...

Well said, Thank you.
 
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