King/Drew Update

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GeneralVeers

GeneralVeers

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The past few weeks have been very disheartening for all of our residents. With LA County being openly hostile, and our PD doing little to facilitate our transfers it's been a miserable situation.

This week several of our residents contacted EMRA and the RRC. The topic of discussion was our AWOL program director, who works many shifts at a private hospital, does not respond to (or check) e-mail, and has been unreachable by phone. Many PDs, as well as the RRC also complained about this problem. Last week our PD told us he was "responsible to get you through to July, but nothing else". Further, he told us that we were "on our own" in terms of finding residency spots. Today we received word that a new faculty member has been appointed as "liason to the RRC" who will manage the short-term plan, and placement issues. I really hope things will get better. Only one resident has successfully transferred, with one other possible going to Michigan. If the Seniors graduate, it will leave 24 residents who will need placement for July 1st, a prospect which does not look promising at this point.

I'm working my last shift at King/Drew tomorrow night. A private group is scheduled to come in on at midnight December 1st, after which we are done here for good.
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GeneralVeers said:
The past few weeks have been very disheartening for all of our residents. With LA County being openly hostile, and our PD doing little to facilitate our transfers it's been a miserable situation.

This week several of our residents contacted EMRA and the RRC. The topic of discussion was our AWOL program director, who works many shifts at a private hospital, does not respond to (or check) e-mail, and has been unreachable by phone. Many PDs, as well as the RRC also complained about this problem. Last week our PD told us he was "responsible to get you through to July, but nothing else". Further, he told us that we were "on our own" in terms of finding residency spots. Today we received word that a new faculty member has been appointed as "liason to the RRC" who will manage the short-term plan, and placement issues. I really hope things will get better. Only one resident has successfully transferred, with one other possible going to Michigan. If the Seniors graduate, it will leave 24 residents who will need placement for July 1st, a prospect which does not look promising at this point.

I'm working my last shift at King/Drew tomorrow night. A private group is scheduled to come in on at midnight December 1st, after which we are done here for good.
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I hope that I will be forgiven for this language as an "advisor", but that f---ing sucks man...

- H
 
That sucks man... Sorry.
 
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wow...that really sucks man. And to think I had MLK in my rank list because I wanted to come back to CA so bad. Thank GOD I didn't end up in your shoes. All the best finding a spot, it's quite unfortunate how this has turned out.
 
Sorry you're having to go through all this. I know we're all hoping for the best for you and all the others at MLK.
 
Best of luck to you all.
 
That's tough. I think the worst thing is the PD being such an ass. I just can't imagine that, all the places i've visited so far really seem to have PD's that will help their residents anyway they can.
 
SolidGold said:
That's tough. I think the worst thing is the PD being such an ass. I just can't imagine that, all the places i've visited so far really seem to have PD's that will help their residents anyway they can.
Click to expand...

Most PDs are great and will help residents with anything they can. What's wrong with our PD, I'm not sure.......
 
GeneralVeers said:
Most PDs are great and will help residents with anything they can. What's wrong with our PD, I'm not sure.......
Click to expand...

He's losing his job too? That doesn't make what he is doing any better, but at least it puts it into some sort of perspective.
Some people didn't let the women and children off the Titanic first either.
 
IbnSina said:
He's losing his job too? That doesn't make what he is doing any better, but at least it puts it into some sort of perspective.
Some people didn't let the women and children off the Titanic first either.
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He's not being fired, as it's impossible to fire anyone in our system, rather he's being relieved of responsibilities which have been given to another faculty member. Our previous two program directors who were removed are still collecting salary and are on "administrative leave". Essentially, L.A. County is the most messed up place I've ever seen.
 
Sounds like a very messed up situation. Good luck.
 
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if you guys are still carrying your training money with you (like I thought from a previous post) why wouldnt people want to take you? Seems weird.
 
EctopicFetus said:
if you guys are still carrying your training money with you (like I thought from a previous post) why wouldnt people want to take you? Seems weird.
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The CMS cap doesn't necessarily cover all resident costs. For example, in L.A. county, only a small percentage of patients are medicare, thus the reimbursement is about $10,000 for residents. Other hospitals like Cedars, it's well over $100,000 per resident.
 
We absorbed one of your residents here in Peoria as we had a second year spot open up. Looking forward to having him. The situation worked out well for both sides I think. I wish the best to the rest of you as you try to continue your education elsewhere.
 
MasterintuBater said:
We absorbed one of your residents here in Peoria as we had a second year spot open up. Looking forward to having him. The situation worked out well for both sides I think. I wish the best to the rest of you as you try to continue your education elsewhere.
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You guys got lucky, and picked one of our top three residents. If you like him, remember there's more where he came from.....
 
Well it happened on Friday Dec 1st. We were kicked out of our hospital at 7 AM. One old lady physician from CEP showed up to take over the whole ED filled with drug addicts and psych patients. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

On the bright side 8 of us started at California hospital for trauma/SICU. They get 6 trauma activations per day with 40% penetrating. They had 200 activations last month, more than Harbor, and close to USC. The best thing of all is that there are no surgery residents, so the EM residents get 100% of the procedures.

The other residents are rotating at Cedars-Sinai, LA Children's-ED, Riverside for OB, and Harbor-UCLA for internal medicine.

Still no luck placing any more residents, but I'm hopeful we'll hear something this week. Kaiser-Stanford wants to take four of us, and our CVs were all sent to them last week.
 
When you say 8 of us, does that include you GV?
 
A letter was circulating thru our dept (LAC/USC)that we may absorb some king residents, but not until july. Our PD says the RRC is very resistent to expanding the number residents in our program. Wish you luck....
 
c15767 said:
A letter was circulating thru our dept (LAC/USC)that we may absorb some king residents, but not until july. Our PD says the RRC is very resistent to expanding the number residents in our program. Wish you luck....
Click to expand...

Besides the personal plight that each of you is in, I feel personally let down -- as a fellow EM resident -- by the RRC. They parade in and out of our hospitals q2-5 years for a comprehensive review. An exhaustive pile of literature is required to be generated by each program... all in the name of "standardized", competent residency programs.

And now, in a time of need, the RRC cannot step up and take an over-arching, bird's eye view of the situation and facilitate a solution!?! I can't believe that they aren't at the very LEAST facilitating the addition of spots to programs willing to take residents, and to be frank, I'm disappointed that they aren't actively assisting each of you who is in good standing at your program.

I suppose there is an answer -- something the RRC would spin about how they have no role or jurisdiction, but the bottom line is they are responsible for the integrity of the programs across the nation, and it underscores the one fatal flaw with the system as it currently stands:

When violations occur, it is the RESIDENTS who ultimately pay the price. It's why we lie about work hours, and other aspects of the job that the RRC is critical of.

So go ahead RRC leadership or connected people who might be lurking -- consider the gauntlet thrown:

Why aren't you helping these residents?
 
bulgethetwine said:
Besides the personal plight that each of you is in, I feel personally let down -- as a fellow EM resident -- by the RRC. They parade in and out of our hospitals q2-5 years for a comprehensive review. An exhaustive pile of literature is required to be generated by each program... all in the name of "standardized", competent residency programs.

And now, in a time of need, the RRC cannot step up and take an over-arching, bird's eye view of the situation and facilitate a solution!?! I can't believe that they aren't at the very LEAST facilitating the addition of spots to programs willing to take residents, and to be frank, I'm disappointed that they aren't actively assisting each of you who is in good standing at your program.

I suppose there is an answer -- something the RRC would spin about how they have no role or jurisdiction, but the bottom line is they are responsible for the integrity of the programs across the nation, and it underscores the one fatal flaw with the system as it currently stands:

When violations occur, it is the RESIDENTS who ultimately pay the price. It's why we lie about work hours, and other aspects of the job that the RRC is critical of.

So go ahead RRC leadership or connected people who might be lurking -- consider the gauntlet thrown:

Why aren't you helping these residents?
Click to expand...

Actually, it's not really the RRC that's holding things up. Over the past week the RRC has been very helpful in agreeing to allow multiple programs to take extra residents. The problem is that none of these spots have materialized, due to money. Sure the RRC can open up a new spot, but if there's no money to pay the resident, almost no program will accept us. This is the current problem with USC. I've spoken with Dr. Swadron on multiple occasions, and he seems to think the hold-up is with L.A. County, who won't help us in any way shape or form. Unless the county can agree to continue paying us salaries, no transfer of residents can possibly happen, despite what the RRC or USC says.
 
Haven't posted here in a while, but this thread is as good a place as any to come back.

I've worked with several recent grads, moonlighting residents, and one older grad of the Drew MLK program over the last few years. This has got to suck for the current residents beyond anything that can be expected of residents. It's not just the EM program as I understand it, but all the residency programs at MLK were disbanded AFAICT. None of the guys I know that worked and trained there were overly surprised that it happened. Some wondered why it took so long. There probably isn't a more dysfunctional hospital in the country than MLK was. The turnaround plan is interesting, and it actually has at least a remote chance of saving the hospital.

Best of luck to those trying to find a place!
 
Some positive news from the "front".

Now that we have a new PD (after a resident-led coup against the old one), things are shaping up a bit better. At least our new PD reads her e-mails and actually answers her phone.

Stanford-Kaiser in Palo Alto has offered to take up to 4 residents as transfers and is reviewing our CVs now. Hopefully this will lead to some placements.

Corpus-Christi is willing to take on several of our PGY-1 residents (not sure if they will have to start over or will start as PGY-2). They are sending a representative to interview willing residents in the next few weeks.

Our PD has told us that a "Florida program" wants to expand and is willing to take some transfers. She didn't provide us with the name, but I'm assuming that it's Tampa, as they have the most capability to expand.

Several programs in New York have also offered to consider transfers: Beth-Israel, Maimonedes, Methodist, and Cooper in New Jersey.

Finally the Christiana PD in Delaware is considering take a few of us as well.

I have one question though: Midwest programs, why aren't you stepping up? Almost no programs in the MidWest or South have offered anything.
 
it really hit the fan didn't it? i didn't apply to this program back in the days for this very reason. it was tough to give up SoCal/3 years vs. risk of program getting shut down.

as long as you get absorbed, you'll make out pretty well considering the gamble. i hope things work out for you guys.
 
Corpus Christi is going to be doing interviews in Los Angeles on Friday. They want to take 6-8 of our PGY-2 residents, and 4 of our PGY-1 residents. Their PD wants us to start as early as March.

Not sure if it's ideal transferring into a program that's just starting up, but beggars can't be choosers.
 
would pgy-2 transfer as pgy -1 or 2? and the pgy1? do they start as pgy-1? just curious...
 
maxine said:
would pgy-2 transfer as pgy -1 or 2? and the pgy1? do they start as pgy-1? just curious...
Click to expand...

VCU in Richmond is accepting a PGY-2 and will be treated as a PGY-2. I'm assuming this will be the same across the board.

kg
 
maxine said:
would pgy-2 transfer as pgy -1 or 2? and the pgy1? do they start as pgy-1? just curious...
Click to expand...

It would be a parallel transfer, 2 ----> 2, 1 ----> 1 immediately, with advancement in July. They will be matching an intern class so in July we willl have a complete complement of residents.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Corpus Christi is going to be doing interviews in Los Angeles on Friday. They want to take 6-8 of our PGY-2 residents, and 4 of our PGY-1 residents. Their PD wants us to start as early as March.

Not sure if it's ideal transferring into a program that's just starting up, but beggars can't be choosers.
Click to expand...



So true, but best of luck. Corpus isn't a dream place to be but there are definately worse places in teh world, and probably US.

I hope things end up working out well for you Veers.


If anyone is NYC bound, and needs an ear or a friendly face, PM me. :)
 
GeneralVeers said:
Some positive news from the "front".


I have one question though: Midwest programs, why aren't you stepping up? Almost no programs in the MidWest or South have offered anything.
Click to expand...

Has anyone contacted the new UW-Madison program? I think they're in the process of interviewing for their first intern, so they may be in a situation similar to CC's. Just a thought. Keep us posted GV.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Some positive news from the "front".

Now that we have a new PD (after a resident-led coup against the old one), things are shaping up a bit better. At least our new PD reads her e-mails and actually answers her phone.

Stanford-Kaiser in Palo Alto has offered to take up to 4 residents as transfers and is reviewing our CVs now. Hopefully this will lead to some placements.

Corpus-Christi is willing to take on several of our PGY-1 residents (not sure if they will have to start over or will start as PGY-2). They are sending a representative to interview willing residents in the next few weeks.

Our PD has told us that a "Florida program" wants to expand and is willing to take some transfers. She didn't provide us with the name, but I'm assuming that it's Tampa, as they have the most capability to expand.

Several programs in New York have also offered to consider transfers: Beth-Israel, Maimonedes, Methodist, and Cooper in New Jersey.

Finally the Christiana PD in Delaware is considering take a few of us as well.

I have one question though: Midwest programs, why aren't you stepping up? Almost no programs in the MidWest or South have offered anything.
Click to expand...


This is great. There are some good programs and good people willing to help out and make room to take some of you guys in. Glad to also hear the new PD is much better. I think the old one probably just screwed himself from ever becoming a PD again, and will probably never have a leadership role like becoming a chair of a department. Good luck and keep us up to date.

That Florida program may also be Gainesville since they are just accepting their 2nd class this year.
 
SolidGold said:
This is great. There are some good programs and good people willing to help out and make room to take some of you guys in. Glad to also hear the new PD is much better. I think the old one probably just screwed himself from ever becoming a PD again, and will probably never have a leadership role like becoming a chair of a department. Good luck and keep us up to date.

That Florida program may also be Gainesville since they are just accepting their 2nd class this year.
Click to expand...

The Florida program is Orlando which is apparently expanding.

U of Wisconsin cannot take any transfers currently.
 
GeneralVeers said:
The Florida program is Orlando which is apparently expanding.

U of Wisconsin cannot take any transfers currently.
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Orlando would be pretty sweet, especially for the single guys. :D
 
I rotated at ORMC and it is a solid program in a great city!
 
anything new at King Drew? Just wondering why they are still listed in NRMP?
 
Corpus Christi has taken 8 of our 2nd year residents as transfers, and 3 of our interns. That leaves 2 people remaining out of our 2nd year class, and 7 interns.

Guess I'm headed to Texas....
 
GeneralVeers said:
They are the least fortunate of all. They get to graduate in July with a "Drew University" diploma.
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed for the remaining 9. I am glad to see you found a home, even though it is far from where you had hoped to be. Maybe greats things are in store for you in Texas. Good luck.
 
Are the folks that are going to Corpus starting in January or are they starting in July? Will they have to start their current year over or are they being given credit?
 
congrats on finding a spot hopefully the rest of the people will be as fortunate as you!
 
Here's the breakdown:

PGY-3: 10 residents will graduate July 1, 2007

PGY-2: 14 residents total
1 transferred to Peoria in December
1 is transferring to Wayne State (Detroit) in February
1 is going to Virginia
1 is going to New Jersey
8 are going to Corpus Christi
2 remain

PGY-1: 12 residents total
3 are going to Corpus Christi
5 want to "stay in LA" even though there are no jobs
3 are not applying anywhere

BTW does anyone know the best way to smack some sense of reality into an intern?
 
GeneralVeers said:
Here's the breakdown:



PGY-1: 12 residents total
3 are going to Corpus Christi
5 want to "stay in LA" even though there are no jobs
3 are not applying anywhere

BTW does anyone know the best way to smack some sense of reality into an intern?
Click to expand...

5+3+3 = 11?

Are the interns being told something that everybody else isn't? Seems odd for 8/12 intelligent people to bury their heads in the sand and ignore reality.

I am just glad it all worked out!
 
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