[lab animal] Residency application process

[Littlehamsterz]

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Hello!

I was wondering whether you would need to do an internship prior to apply for a lab animal residency program? I've heard no but I just want to get this clear before my 3rd year comes up so I can plan stuff out.

 

[Lab Vet]

Hello!

I was wondering whether you would need to do an internship prior to apply for a lab animal residency program? I've heard no but I just want to get this clear before my 3rd year comes up so I can plan stuff out.

No, an internship is not required for applying to lab animal residency programs. Specific internships in LAM do not currently exist (although one was in development at UGA- not currently active due to lack of funding). That being said, some LAM residencies prefer that applicants have at least one year of SA general practice experience under their belt prior to entrance. In fact, such programs will (unofficially) not even consider an applicant without said experience. LAM residencies vary wildly with respect to program design, % research appointment, duration, and selection criteria.

 

[KCgophervet]

That being said, some LAM residencies prefer that applicants have at least one year of SA general practice experience under their belt prior to entrance. In fact, such programs will (unofficially) not even consider an applicant without said experience.

I had not heard of this preference, do you know which programs are looking for that?

That's kind of surprising to me, mostly just because there are a lot of differences between GP and lab animal (like, I could see it for almost any other specialty except zoo). I wonder why they want that? Other than to raise confidence or build experience in general I suppose.

 

[Lab Vet]

Kcoughli,

Yes. This came as a big surprise to me as well. My adviser at NCSU (director of LAR, and himself in charge of resident selection for the RTP LAM consortium residency) informed me of this when I began hitting him up for info. This expectation (for SA general practice experience) isn't adverised. Program directors, however, do apparently have a distict preference for applicants with this experience under their belt.

LAM is different than general practice- you're right. My adviser harps on the fact that you can't be a good lab animal vet until you're a solid generalist first. This is his opinion, and apparently the inclination of other heavy hitters in the field.

As I mentioned previously, not all LAM residencies are treated equally. My adviser did admit that many folks are admitted to LAM residencies directly out of vet school. For some programs, however, if you're competing against applicants with general practice experience, they'll have the upper hand (regardless of how much research experience you have). This info was confirmed by current residents with whom I spoke at this year's NC Workshop in Lab Animal Medicine (where the mock ACLAM board exam is administered).

I'd hit up the lab animal vets at your institution and get their opinion on the issue. In summary, you can get an ACLAM residency without general practic experience, but you'll be more competitive if you have it. Given that some programs will have multiple applicants with that experience, it becomes a defacto requirement.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Lab Vet]

One more thing. I was not informed which specific programs expect this experience. My adviser told me not to worry about it at this stage, and to focus on doing my best in school. The match will come soon enough.

 

[KCgophervet]

Kcoughli,

Yes. This came as a big surprise to me as well. My adviser at NCSU (director of LAR, and himself in charge of resident selection for the RTP LAM consortium residency) informed me of this when I began hitting him up for info. This expectation (for SA general practice experience) isn't adverised. Program directors, however, do apparently have a distict preference for applicants with this experience under their belt.

LAM is different than general practice- you're right. My adviser harps on the fact that you can't be a good lab animal vet until you're a solid generalist first. This is his opinion, and apparently the inclination of other heavy hitters in the field.

As I mentioned previously, not all LAM residencies are treated equally. My adviser did admit that many folks are admitted to LAM residencies directly out of vet school. For some programs, however, if you're competing against applicants with general practice experience, they'll have the upper hand (regardless of how much research experience you have). This info was confirmed by current residents with whom I spoke at this year's NC Workshop in Lab Animal Medicine (where the mock ACLAM board exam is administered).

I'd hit up the lab animal vets at your institution and get their opinion on the issue. In summary, you can get an ACLAM residency without general practic experience, but you'll be more competitive if you have it. Given that some programs will have multiple applicants with that experience, it becomes a defacto requirement.

Hope this is helpful.

The 2 places I've been that have LAM residencies did not mention this preference at all, and at one it was even hinted that you'd have a better shot coming straight from vet school (or if you did work, worked in a lab animal position, or somehow demonstrated that you actually are interested/committed in the field as opposed to just throwing in an application because it sounds interesting - apparently this happens now that they're in the match program). That's why I find it interesting that you posted it.

I'm doing an ASLAP summer fellowship right now and I will ask them what their thoughts on the matter are. I for sure would not have assumed it was de facto requirement, at this point I'm going to assume it's very program specific.

I also find it weird because I don't really think GP's are necessarily good generalists, the places I've been it's like you see the same things over and over and so you get very good at doing those things.

PS - Just so you know they do mock ACLAM exams all over the US 🙂

 

[Lab Vet]

The 2 places I've been that have LAM residencies did not mention this preference at all, and at one it was even hinted that you'd have a better shot coming straight from vet school (or if you did work, worked in a lab animal position, or somehow demonstrated that you actually are interested/committed in the field as opposed to just throwing in an application because it sounds interesting - apparently this happens now that they're in the match program). That's why I find it interesting that you posted it.

I'm doing an ASLAP summer fellowship right now and I will ask them what their thoughts on the matter are. I for sure would not have assumed it was de facto requirement, at this point I'm going to assume it's very program specific.

I also find it weird because I don't really think GP's are necessarily good generalists, the places I've been it's like you see the same things over and over and so you get very good at doing those things.

PS - Just so you know they do mock ACLAM exams all over the US 🙂

Thanks for the alternative perspective. I wasn't planning on going GP following vet school. I was certainly going to try my hand at an LAM residency straight out of the gate. With respect to the advice I was given, I suspect his point is that some practice experience is better than what you actually receive during clinics in vet school. For example, dogs and cats are used in research. Dogs and cats are dogs and cats, whether they're in a research environment, or living with a family. It's true that experimental conditions complicate that comparison a bit, but I can see his point. I'm actually unclear how to evaluate residencies in terms of what I should be looking for. I was advised to 'set up' experiences during my summers and fourth year at programs where I'd be interested in completing a residency. The programs are so varied. I recognize that some focus more on research than others (despite the ACLAM requirement of 1, first authored pub in a lab animal journal in order to be board eligible). The roles of a lab animal vet are so varied, that it's difficult to know what to target in a residency. Is it...Species diversity? Vivarium size? Number of boarded lab animal/pathology vets on staff? Emphasis on research? Environment (government vs. private sector vs. academia). Do you have any opinions? I'd be curious to hear them. Also, congrats on the ASLAP position. Where are you at? I'll be applying next year. Any recommendations for placements??

 

[Lab Vet]

...also, I didn't know that mock ACLAM was administered in other locations. Thanks for the tip (I didn't mean to make it sound exclusive). Have fun this summer!!

 

[KCgophervet]

Thanks for the alternative perspective. I wasn't planning on going GP following vet school. I was certainly going to try my hand at an LAM residency straight out of the gate. With respect to the advice I was given, I suspect his point is that some practice experience is better than what you actually receive during clinics in vet school. For example, dogs and cats are used in research. Dogs and cats are dogs and cats, whether they're in a research environment, or living with a family. It's true that experimental conditions complicate that comparison a bit, but I can see his point.

So I had a chat with some of the post doc residents here and it sounds pretty hit or miss. Basically their impression was that, if the vet did some GP work before doing their residency or joining lab animal, they think that its a good idea to do it, and if they didn't they don't have that preference. Obviously that's just a generalization, but made me feel better nonetheless.

I'm actually unclear how to evaluate residencies in terms of what I should be looking for. I was advised to 'set up' experiences during my summers and fourth year at programs where I'd be interested in completing a residency.

That's exactly it, the more places you can visit and check out for yourself, the easier it will be to figure out where you want to apply for residency. I've only been to 2 places so far, but the differences are night and day, and it's definitely impacted how I feel about the programs as opposed to just reading about it on their websites.

The programs are so varied. I recognize that some focus more on research than others (despite the ACLAM requirement of 1, first authored pub in a lab animal journal in order to be board eligible).

That is definitely something to consider. I'm lucky enough to already have a first authored publication (and it doesn't have to be a lab animal journal: "Serving as first author of an original research article demonstrates application of the scientific method in the biological sciences or other scientific areas relevant to laboratory animal medicine. This article must be published in a peer-reviewed journal and be fully accepted at the time of application"). So for me, a lot of research isn't really necessary, and I'm more interested in the clinical side of things so I'm looking for a program that reflects that.

The roles of a lab animal vet are so varied, that it's difficult to know what to target in a residency. Is it...Species diversity? Vivarium size? Number of boarded lab animal/pathology vets on staff? Emphasis on research? Environment (government vs. private sector vs. academia). Do you have any opinions? I'd be curious to hear them.

Honestly, at this point my biggest focuses are looking for more clinically-based programs (with less of a research emphasis) as well as looking at the numbers or percentage of people who complete the program and subsequently become ACLAM boarded. Some of the programs are really focused on their residents becoming boarded at the end, some are not (and to me, why go through the pain of a residency if not trying to get boarded?).

Also, congrats on the ASLAP position. Where are you at? I'll be applying next year. Any recommendations for placements??

I'm currently at the University of Illinois at Chicago. My recommendation would be to look into the program websites and what they offer and compare it to what you're looking for in a program. I was really looking for some primate experience as well as some good hands on clinical experience, which are both pretty highly emphasized here.

Hope that was helpful!

 

[Littlehamsterz]

Thanks for the info everybody! I will for sure have to hit up the vets and inquire. I'm also doing an ASLAP fellowship this summer at Emory.

 

[epivetlove]

Definitely seems to be hit or miss with which programs like to see GP experience prior to application. Our Director of CMP LARR likes to see a year of GP before applying to the residency program here and typically does not take A&M students (though I've heard this is true of other residencies?). The LAM residency I'm interested in has no preference and often takes applicants fresh out of school.

 

[Lab Vet]

This has been a very helpful thread. Thanks, everyone! Enjoy your fellowships this summer 🙂

 

[DickVetPlease]

My completely anecdotal take on this--we have three 1st-year residents (including myself) at our program, and all three of us came directly out of vet school. The same is true for our second years as well. Granted, we're a very academic/research oriented program, so it's probably not representative of your typical clinical lab animal programs.

 

[that redhead]

I wonder why they want that? Other than to raise confidence or build experience in general I suppose.

I've heard it both ways. Some of the PGs I've spoken to like a candidate fresh out of school because they don't learn any of the "bad habits" of GP. Others want you to have at least a year because (as I can attest to in my first month of work in GP) there is so much to learn yet, as well as the confidence and skill to apply that knowledge. While lab animal and GP are very different in many ways, the basics of getting an animal health complaint/question and going through the diagnostic process to arrive at an appropriate treatment (even if it is just a mouse that will likely be euthanized) as well as communicating with the person concerned about the animal (be it a pet owner or a post-doc) is not something you learn as well in fourth year alone versus out in practice. (That all being said, I'm sure programs adequately ease you into the clinician role. It would just be a faster/smoother transition, which would be more appealing to programs who wanted their residents to be ready to perform solo sooner rather than later.)

 

[Mango2011]

Thanks for the info everybody! I will for sure have to hit up the vets and inquire. I'm also doing an ASLAP fellowship this summer at Emory.

How was the fellowship? I just applied to Emory for a residency in lab animal medicine!