Besides arriving on time and being available whenever PI calls, what other things should I keep in mind when I'm in a lab?
lab etiquette?
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Don't eat at the bench.
Don't wear sandals or shorts.
Don't ask for authorship your first day.
Don't joke about anything (ie. pretending to spill a sample) until you know the other people in lab and what humor they find acceptable.
Don't be a douche.
Don't wear sandals or shorts.
Don't ask for authorship your first day.
Don't joke about anything (ie. pretending to spill a sample) until you know the other people in lab and what humor they find acceptable.
Don't be a douche.
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a co-author is one who contributed significantly to the paper generally in an intellectual way. ie you didn't just clean glassware and cast gels but actually did an experiment or interpreted something.
A big thing i find for lab etiquette is always give credit when credit is due, If someone helped you with something or gave you a method they perfected you recognize them and don't take credit for their work (Science is collaborative and this keeps from pissing off your co workers).
If you like to listen to music while you work find out the lab policy on it from others, but until you know better use headphones.
Keep a good and detailed lab notebook, its really annoying to need to find out what someone did and you find out they didn't write it down
A big thing i find for lab etiquette is always give credit when credit is due, If someone helped you with something or gave you a method they perfected you recognize them and don't take credit for their work (Science is collaborative and this keeps from pissing off your co workers).
If you like to listen to music while you work find out the lab policy on it from others, but until you know better use headphones.
Keep a good and detailed lab notebook, its really annoying to need to find out what someone did and you find out they didn't write it down
YES.
Machine usage is a big pet peeve of mine. Don't sign up for machines and don't use them or keep your samples in them well past when they are finished processing. If you need to sign up for a large chunk of time, do it well away from peak hours.
If you use up something (ex. reagents), make it's replace or more is ordered.
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deleted357625
I don't know about others, but my research experience was very unprofessional. All this talk about PhD programs and professionalism etc etc.. It was probably the worst experience in my life on top of doing absolutely nothing except clean rats and set up equipment for half a year.
Just know it exists and don't be surprised. I was in my best manner, but treated like some peasant because I was less talkative than the others.
Just know it exists and don't be surprised. I was in my best manner, but treated like some peasant because I was less talkative than the others.
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Clean up after yourself and put things back where they belong.
If you're starting an experiment and haven't done it before read over the protocol a few times so you're familiar with it and can get materials out beforehand. For example, if you need a water bath at a weird temperature you don't want to wait on it to warm up in the middle of the experiment.
If you're starting an experiment and haven't done it before read over the protocol a few times so you're familiar with it and can get materials out beforehand. For example, if you need a water bath at a weird temperature you don't want to wait on it to warm up in the middle of the experiment.
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Don't be afraid to ask for help, early.
If you don't know why you're doing a task or how it relates to the experiment, ask. We generally love talking ad nauseum about the rationale behind every little task. It makes for great small talk and, more importantly, learning points.
Know that mistakes will happen, sometimes huge ones.
If someone helps you, pay it forward: It could be as simple as, "Hey, do you need some more PBS/buffer/BSA?" and making them a batch or offering to watch their rocker and do some washes while they grab a much needed bite to eat. You'll find that the grad students will F'ing come to love you and will always be there for you, even if it's that frantic 1am phone call when you're crying about the zombie blot that just crawled out of the developer and s/he allays your fears by telling you to simply over expose.
I could go on forever. I commented heavily on a similar thread if you run a search in the forums. I <3 the lab as much as I <3 the patients. Good luck and thank you for asking such a good question as you enter a lab. I'm sure you'll do great.
If you don't know why you're doing a task or how it relates to the experiment, ask. We generally love talking ad nauseum about the rationale behind every little task. It makes for great small talk and, more importantly, learning points.
Know that mistakes will happen, sometimes huge ones.
If someone helps you, pay it forward: It could be as simple as, "Hey, do you need some more PBS/buffer/BSA?" and making them a batch or offering to watch their rocker and do some washes while they grab a much needed bite to eat. You'll find that the grad students will F'ing come to love you and will always be there for you, even if it's that frantic 1am phone call when you're crying about the zombie blot that just crawled out of the developer and s/he allays your fears by telling you to simply over expose.
I could go on forever. I commented heavily on a similar thread if you run a search in the forums. I <3 the lab as much as I <3 the patients. Good luck and thank you for asking such a good question as you enter a lab. I'm sure you'll do great.
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Don't borrow coworkers' reagents without asking for them first. Learn how to make your own reagents if possible (specially if you are running Northerns/reagent consuming experiments.) Always treat other folks' reagents with respect & keep them clean (I can be a bit OCD but it has saved me time later on).
Always take note when you make a mistake, usually it is not a big deal but you may need to repeat the whole experiment and/or at least write it down in your journal for future consideration.
Learn how to cite properly.
In general I'd say to be systematic & like others have said don't be afraid to ask. Don't use equipment you don't know how to handle and do use protective equipment. Something that I try to do on my every day work is be predictable, I know it sounds boring but later on when you don't remember why you did one thing or the other it will help to know that you *most likely* followed a rational train of thougth when conducting the experiment...
Good luck and have fun!
Always take note when you make a mistake, usually it is not a big deal but you may need to repeat the whole experiment and/or at least write it down in your journal for future consideration.
Learn how to cite properly.
In general I'd say to be systematic & like others have said don't be afraid to ask. Don't use equipment you don't know how to handle and do use protective equipment. Something that I try to do on my every day work is be predictable, I know it sounds boring but later on when you don't remember why you did one thing or the other it will help to know that you *most likely* followed a rational train of thougth when conducting the experiment...
Good luck and have fun!
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Learn to do as much on your own as fast as you can. From my experience post-docs and grad students are happy to help but after a while they want to see you work on their own; they've got their own **** to do.
Be organized, on time, and try as hard as you can to meet your deadlines.
Keep up with the literature.
When you start off in a lab, do as much background reading as you can to demonstrate that you're serious about the work. Ultimately, people understand that undergrads don't know as much as other students, but people expect you to try as hard as you can.
Know your place, but don't let yourself get walked all over.
Be organized, on time, and try as hard as you can to meet your deadlines.
Keep up with the literature.
When you start off in a lab, do as much background reading as you can to demonstrate that you're serious about the work. Ultimately, people understand that undergrads don't know as much as other students, but people expect you to try as hard as you can.
Know your place, but don't let yourself get walked all over.
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Don't set things on fire (intentionally).
Don't use the last bit of reagents without replacing them. (I repeat. DO NOT.)
Don't blast Lady Gaga on your speakers (unless you worked in my lab).
Don't taunt the poor postdocs.
Don't use the last bit of reagents without replacing them. (I repeat. DO NOT.)
Don't blast Lady Gaga on your speakers (unless you worked in my lab).
Don't taunt the poor postdocs.
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Don't use anyone else's buffer.
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Improved
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I am much more annoyed by a new undergrad lab member who goes in thinking that he/she knows everything than one who asks a ton of questions and isn't afraid of asking for help. That said whenever someone does help, write it down. It annoys people when you ask them the same question again and again.
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Nothing more annoying than a green team member already dictating the level of their contribution.
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remember that the grad student's and post doc's schedules will not revolve around you if you arrange a time to get help show up. I always found it annoying when an undergrad didn't show up when they said they would (it occurred enough that they were removed from my project)
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If you're an undergraduate, understand that your experiments are practically meaningless.
What kind of notebook should I purchase (something you recommend) and how should I keep notes? Is it something like gen chem lab notebook or physics lab notebook? A picture would be nice too.
Also, the citation depends on what lab I'm in right?
Thanks to everyone for your responses!! It's very insightful.
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Speak for yourself lol. I was working in a small start-up lab at a top 10 medical school doing basically all of the leg work on my project (and some others projects on the side).
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Your PI will tell you what they want. Otherwise, a nice bound notebook with non-tearable pages should work nicely.
What to write down? EVERYTHING...... But actually. Anyone should be able to go through your notebook and replicate exactly anything that you did in the lab based off of what you wrote there. Occasionally mentioning why you conducted particular experiments is helpful too.
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deleted393595
If you turn it on, turn it off.
If you use up something, refill/replace it.
If you make a mess, clean it up.
As long as it's conducted under humane parameters, with IACUC approval, and for a relevant scientific purpose for which there is no other alternative, I have no issues with it.
I use a cheap $2 quadrline ruled notebook I got from staples, and it does wonders. But I'd love to get my hands on one of these: http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.ACCT126734/it.A/id.157/.f
Your PI will tell you.
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deleted393595
What are the advantages and disadvantages of this? lol
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don't get the number of sugars and creams switched
The lab should have notebooks, paper, etc. Ask to see a grad student or postdoc's notebook for an idea of what to include - preferably one who is OCD.
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If you are wondering about ethical issues such as the use of animals in research, then take an ethics course. Many scientists have varying stances on the issue of animal experimentation.
In the end, it all comes down to personal values. Would you be able to experiment on mice if the situation called on it? If not, then you may have to again weigh the costs and benefits of working in the lab.
As for the ethics course, definitely take it I should say! It is important to have an understand of what goes on in the lab and the roles of each person. There are also guide lines to research in the labs and training that one has to go through. It is also important to know about the process writing of a research paper and also publication. This is all discussed in one neat package when you take an ethics course.
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Is it ever appropriate to ask about the potential for a publication? Like towards the end of the project, would that be fine?
Also, if you get expelled from a lab, say for simply not doing a good enough job (but still putting in effort), is it common for PI's to share that sort of information? Or what sort of offenses would get you kicked out of a lab?
Also, if you get expelled from a lab, say for simply not doing a good enough job (but still putting in effort), is it common for PI's to share that sort of information? Or what sort of offenses would get you kicked out of a lab?
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Telling everyone you're bringing in pizza because it's your birthday tomorrow... but not telling them that it will be anchovy pizza.
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Agreed. I was working in a well funded top 15 lab and was tasked with developing an entirely new method to quantify our DAT/NET stain data and ended up teaching everyone in the lab my method, not to mention providing data we used in a senior grad student's grant application. I was fortunate to land authorship.
Agreed with what others said about the ethics: It varies. I personally did a lot of mouse survival surgeries involving agent exposure, PFA perfusion (very delicate and meticulous process, gruesome to some), and brain harvesting for the purpose of quantifying and elucidating neurotrafficking pathways. It was an amazing experience that really opened my mind and made me realize I may actually love procedures/surgery during med school rotations. I initially thought I'd hate procedures/surgery.
This is a difficult question considering you're an undergrad. As a general rule, you always discuss authorship before beginning a project if you know you'll be listed as an author: Will you be first, third, senior, etc. But as an undergrad, prove yourself first, work hard, and mention it in passing to your closest colleague/friend in the lab for advice; each PI is different. Some just flat out refuse, while others love to see someone so enthused. Your friend show know where your PI falls on that spectrum. I've always been a go getter and was never afraid to ask once I knew the team realized I was a hard worker and had a knack for research. Having completed 6 undergrad projects and presenting helped, I'm sure.
I can think of a few offenses: Being rude/disrespectful, acts of malice/sabotage, excessive absenteeism, arriving under the influence, excessive clumsiness (breaking equipment), etc. Pretty common sensical stuff here.
Or synthesizing illicit agents at 1am without the approval of your PI. LoL My PI hung one of his citations in the lab for picking shrooms in the park and had various supply boxes labeled "crack pipes." Man, I had an awesome time in the darn lab. I miss it.
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As others have mentioned, your lab may have some notebooks that they buy and you would not have to purchase them on your own. My favorite one is: http://www.amazon.com/Blueline-Busi...1358351490&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+line+notebook Also remember where you keep it, try not to get it all contaminated/dirty if possible 😉
By citations I just meant that when you are developing a presentation, poster, paper, etc. you should always cite the original contributor. Some folks use reviews and just cite the review without bothering to go to the original paper. I was taught that you should always cite the researcher that first described the protocol or idea you are working on (it also helps you to understand what the original author meant). You'll get more used to this once you actually have to write something.
Also- I do not think that just because you are an undergraduate your work is meaningless. I once published out of a summer internship (rare but it does happen if you work hard and have a nice PI & lab members).
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At the lab I was in over the summer, and even during the school year, they really didn't care if you wore shorts [sandals I would imagine though]. However, to be safe, in the beginning I would definitely dress biz casual [eg. kacki's and shirt if you're a man]
Often the lab provides you with a notebook, but have one stashed in your backpack just in case.
IDK what lab your in, but if its one with molecular/cell bio, a few tips:
-If a delivery comes in, read where should it go. Eg, if a package comes in that needs to be stored at -20, make sure it goes in -20
-Label the tools you use if the experiment requires it, never want to mix up anything
-Understand the research-read a review article if you need to
-Clean up after yourself
-Always believe you'll succeed. Fake it till you become it [to steal a term from a TED talk I saw yesterday]
OT Everyone should watch this http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html
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Biggest pet peeve is when someone comes to me for help and prefaces it with "I did everything I was supposed to, but it didn't work." If you've done the assay right 1000 times and then crapped out, sure, but when it's your first few times and you pull that, you'll be on my **** list. Extra minus points if you keep insisting you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't. Double extra points when you keep giving me excuses. I don't want to hear them. I have no trouble helping with troubleshooting, but if I keep getting attitude, it gets old really fast. I don't care how stupid/smart/knowledgeable you are. If you make a stupid mistake, own up to it, don't make excuses, and learn from it with grace. I especially hate it if you start trying to tell me how in an undergrad lab class you did this impressive thing once and your professor thought you were a genius, as if that makes up for your current failure. Again I don't even care that you made the mistake. I just want you to learn so I can move on with my day.
Also, please don't email the lab every week after you've finished working (esp during application season) if 'your' paper has been published yet. You're lucky our lab is super nice about trying to make sure that anyone who works hard leaves with a rec letter from a world renown doctor, and authorship on a paper with a decent impact factor. It's annoying when you overstep your boundaries and think that we should be on your med school app schedule. We chuckle After looking at each other in disbelief when we hear about these things in lab meetings.
These are all things I wish I could have said out loud to a couple of pre-meds I worked with but never did.
Also, please don't email the lab every week after you've finished working (esp during application season) if 'your' paper has been published yet. You're lucky our lab is super nice about trying to make sure that anyone who works hard leaves with a rec letter from a world renown doctor, and authorship on a paper with a decent impact factor. It's annoying when you overstep your boundaries and think that we should be on your med school app schedule. We chuckle After looking at each other in disbelief when we hear about these things in lab meetings.
These are all things I wish I could have said out loud to a couple of pre-meds I worked with but never did.
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I agree with this only when the experiment doesn't take very long and doesn't use expensive reagents. Ask for help if either of these are the case.
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I don't mind them asking for help at any time. I just don't like hearing the excuses or blame game when they are almost always the reason for the f*** up.
The biggest thing I've learned in the labs I've been in is to be respectful. When an established PI takes on a student, it's important to remember that they are essentially getting no benefit from having you around. If they were strictly looking for skilled people to help further their work, they would only have post docs. Taking on an undergraduate means that more experiences members of the lab are going to have to take time out of their schedules to teach you the right techniques, and if you're careful to listen and develop a good technique and intuition about the laboratory, then chances are you could really give the lab some meaningful results. Just be patient and respectful!
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Unless you told the lab your know how to do all of that stuff without assistance when they took you on-board, I would be very surprised if they didn't already assume that you know nothing.
Anyway, things I want to add to this thread:
- Come in at least 10 hours a week. Some labs may allow you to come in less than that, but you won't be making any good impressions doing that. Also, if you're in a lab where you can do all your work without anyone ever knowing you're there then keep in mind that what the above really should say is that you should be SEEN for at least 10 hours every week. Always leave your door open, intentionally walk around, ask questions, just do something to make sure people know you're there and working. I had friends in undergrad who were in their labs 10-20 hours a week and yet their PIs were convinced they almost never came in because they never peeked out of their corner of the lab. This did not end well for them when it came time for LORs.
- Do not make a habit out of missing work. It doesn't matter that you're not paid. It doesn't matter that you're not getting credit. It doesn't matter if you're not doing anything important that day. People expect you to be there (they may even count on it), and when you're not, they get pissed. If you do have to miss work, give a notice well in advance. Also inform your lab upfront if there's anything in your life that's going to prevent you from coming into the lab at certain times. Nothing pisses people off faster than having the person responsible for an experiment duck out on short notice and leave them stuck with the work.
- At least act interested in what you're doing. A lot of PIs are pretty attached to their work and see a person's seeming indifference to what goes on in the lab as a personal insult.
- Keep in mind that most people in your lab won't say anything when you've managed to do something in your work that really pissed them off. Your only warning of this may very well come in the form of a sudden and explosive castigation when months of pent up rage finally boils to the surface (at which point it can be hard to rebuild your reputation with them). You would be surprised at what seemingly small things can actually be a big deal, and what seemingly big deals no one even gives a second thought. It's not a bad idea to occasionally ask your supervisor/PI if there's anything you can improve on. This allows them to feel free to tell you what you're doing wrong before it becomes a point of contention.
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deleted393595
In our lab we just call/text each other up whenever we're having problems with something so that the person doing it can figure out what they're doing wrong right there and then, and not end up wasting supplies and their time.
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I second all of this, excellent advice that I took to heart while in lab. I made sure the PI saw me when he was present and didn't have his "Writing grant, DO NOT ******* disturb!" door hangar hanging on his office door.
