Lab Help

[DokM3m3]

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Didn't think I'd be asking for advice on an issue like this, but it's happening. I've been working at a lab for three-four months now doing about six hours a week (PI knows I have limited time this semester and we agreed on a slow transition this semester). Got an email from the grad student I work with recently over this break and it sounds like she's trying to throw me out of the lab. Our schedules do not overlap that well, so it's difficult for them to train me. All my classes are early in the day and all the grad students in the lab work from 8 to 4. She also claims I was always late which is clearly not true (I can fight this, but I see no point in doing so). She's also lowkey angry that I "ruined her day" twice because I was sick and a no-show and couldn't let her know early enough. It happened twice because the first time I woke up with the flu and the second time I woke up with a really bad cold. I'm obviously not going to think "Oh let me email my lab that I'll be late" as I'm slowly dying in bed.

I've developed a strong interest in the work that the lab does and really want to stay. I rarely communicate with the PI since I'm always with the grad student, but the PI loves me and has big plans for me. The grad student I guess hates me and is the senior grad student, so she has a lot of influence.

She said they'll see if I can stay for the next semester in the weekly lab meeting. Because they can't train me on the bigger experiments they run, they'll probably end up giving me some smaller side experiments to run. My question is, should I still stay in this lab despite how the grad students feel about me? There's only three grad students and I'm the only undergrad. Should I end our relationship over the break and not have to worry about this during the semester? This whole situation is messing with my head and I can't think straight at all. Any help is appreciated!

 

[Goro]

IF you have any hope of staying in this lab, you contact the PI now and explain everything like you've done here. And ask to work with another grad student. Nothing good will come by working with one whom you're already on her bad side.

Also consider finding another lab. The need for research by a pre-med is vastly over-rated among pre-meds, unless you plan on only applying to Stanford. There is no need to be miserable int his process either. There are other labs. You should also be able to arrange for a different class schedule so you can be in the lab more in the AMs.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

If you love the subject the lab is studying, just stay and fight the grad student. Try to ask her how she sees things from her end and if she really doesn't like you or is simply coming off that way. There's always another side to the story. As the saying goes, every villain is the hero in their own mind.

The "ruin her day" remark could just be something she says a lot and doesn't have a lot of meaning behind it. If you really like the lab and want to stay, you have to sit down and learn to co-exist.

My lab manager told me I had times where I sounded condescending when I started out and my emails were not well written so I worked on it.

 

[DokM3m3]

IF you have any hope of staying in this lab, you contact the PI now and explain everything like you've done here. And ask to work with another grad student. Nothing good will come by working with one whom you're already on her bad side.

Also consider finding another lab. The need for research by a pre-med is vastly over-rated among pre-meds, unless you plan on only applying to Stanford. There is no need to be miserable int his process either. There are other labs. You should also be able to arrange for a different class schedule so you can be in the lab more in the AMs.

Thanks for the response Goro! Should I wait until after the lab meeting on Friday to email my PI? Or before? Should I include both of them? I don't like creating conflict, so I don't want a large argument to break out.

 

[reaction mechanisms]

When you were sick, did you no-call no-show? As in, you didn’t show up for your scheduled time and then didn’t notify anyone until after your shift had already began? Or did you let them know prior to the start of your shift?


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[DokM3m3]

When you were sick, did you no-call no-show? As in, you didn’t show up for your scheduled time and then didn’t notify anyone until after your shift had already began? Or did you let them know prior to the start of your shift?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Both times I let them know about ten minutes before my shift. I know that's not an advanced notice, but both times I had literally woken up sick and there was no way I was going to remember to email the grad student right away. She's extremely organized and runs by the clock, so I can see why she was ticked off.

 

[reaction mechanisms]

Both times I let them know about ten minutes before my shift. I know that's not an advanced notice, but both times I had literally woken up sick and there was no way I was going to remember to email the grad student right away. She's extremely organized and runs by the clock, so I can see why she was ticked off.

Usually that’s the first thing that comes to my mind when I wake up sick (engage freak out and notify the bosses). OP just don’t make a habit out of this. Employers view this as being unreliable.


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[Goro]

Thanks for the response Goro! Should I wait until after the lab meeting on Friday to email my PI? Or before? Should I include both of them? I don't like creating conflict, so I don't want a large argument to break out.

Contact PI ASAP. Do not include the grad student.

 

[bananafish94]

To be perfectly honest, it sounds like you need to take some more responsibility for your actions. Unless you need some kind of emergency surgery, nobody is ever too sick to send an email to their PI or labmates. And the graduate student likely doesn't "hate" you, she's probably just annoyed by things like lateness and no-shows. I say that if you genuinely enjoy being in the lab, you should stay in and do the smaller experiments, but one semester of research is honestly enough for most medical schools if you don't want to do it anymore.

 

[STcmOCSD]

I do agree with above that the moment you decide you’re not going in you should let them know. If you wake up sick and wait 2 hours to email them and let them know, that’s slightly irresponsible. Every time I wake up sick I’ll immediately email and let the appropriate people know so they have time to make other arrangements for the day.

 

[Microbug]

Also agree with the above two comments. If you're sick, the logical thing most people think about is to call or email people and let them know, especially if you have a meeting. Being sick is not an excuse and it's just the flu, not like you have appendicitis or something. Personally, if I was the grad student, I'd be annoyed af with you too, it just shows that you don't care. Why should she care if you don't?

 

[freedoctor17]

Ahhh lab struggles. I have such a love/hate relationship with mine. Get overworked like crazy in there and a lot of the blame tends to fall on undergrads when things go wrong but it's also so satisfying when you make progress. My PI is also pretty awesome and usually just laughs off mistakes as long as we learn from them and don't keep doing it. From what it sounds like your PI is pretty chill and you have a good relationship with them so id just bring it up with them and see if you can switch who you work with.

 

[Shirafune]

Didn't think I'd be asking for advice on an issue like this, but it's happening. I've been working at a lab for three-four months now doing about six hours a week (PI knows I have limited time this semester and we agreed on a slow transition this semester). Got an email from the grad student I work with recently over this break and it sounds like she's trying to throw me out of the lab. Our schedules do not overlap that well, so it's difficult for them to train me. All my classes are early in the day and all the grad students in the lab work from 8 to 4. She also claims I was always late which is clearly not true (I can fight this, but I see no point in doing so). She's also lowkey angry that I "ruined her day" twice because I was sick and a no-show and couldn't let her know early enough. It happened twice because the first time I woke up with the flu and the second time I woke up with a really bad cold. I'm obviously not going to think "Oh let me email my lab that I'll be late" as I'm slowly dying in bed.

I've developed a strong interest in the work that the lab does and really want to stay. I rarely communicate with the PI since I'm always with the grad student, but the PI loves me and has big plans for me. The grad student I guess hates me and is the senior grad student, so she has a lot of influence.

She said they'll see if I can stay for the next semester in the weekly lab meeting. Because they can't train me on the bigger experiments they run, they'll probably end up giving me some smaller side experiments to run. My question is, should I still stay in this lab despite how the grad students feel about me? There's only three grad students and I'm the only undergrad. Should I end our relationship over the break and not have to worry about this during the semester? This whole situation is messing with my head and I can't think straight at all. Any help is appreciated!

A couple of things:
1. Two no shows within the span of 3-4 months is pretty bad. I would view this as irresponsibility or lack of work ethic simply. If you're actually slowly dying in bed, then you need to get to a hospital. Otherwise, there's no excuse to not send a quick email.

2. I would be careful about thinking that the PI loves you. 3-4 months of limited interaction with the PI is not as much time as you might think. If I were the PI, I would ask the senior graduate student for her opinion. I wouldn't bet on the PI having big plans for you.

3. Sometimes class schedules just don't fit well with lab work for a term. Remember, the lab is doing you a favor and investing in your competence in the future. If your schedule is limiting, then the lab can only train you for the little things. I'm not aware about the nature of your work, but 6 hours a week (likely fragmented through the week) means little involvement beyond chores and repetitive sample processing.

 

[longhaul3]

Our schedules do not overlap that well, so it's difficult for them to train me. All my classes are early in the day and all the grad students in the lab work from 8 to 4.

It happened twice because the first time I woke up with the flu and the second time I woke up with a really bad cold. I'm obviously not going to think "Oh let me email my lab that I'll be late" as I'm slowly dying in bed.

To the first point: those are standard working hours. She's there 8 hours a day. It's not as if she only works a few hours a day and it's bad luck that you're busy at that time. You can't expect them to train you at 7pm. If your classes are "early in the day" then go...later in the day, like in the afternoon.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned and cranky but it is far from obvious to me that you wouldn't give notice when you're sick. In fact it would be obvious to me to do that immediately.

 

[DokM3m3]

To be perfectly honest, it sounds like you need to take some more responsibility for your actions. Unless you need some kind of emergency surgery, nobody is ever too sick to send an email to their PI or labmates. And the graduate student likely doesn't "hate" you, she's probably just annoyed by things like lateness and no-shows. I say that if you genuinely enjoy being in the lab, you should stay in and do the smaller experiments, but one semester of research is honestly enough for most medical schools if you don't want to do it anymore.

You're right and I agree. I can see how it was irresponsibility on my part. It wasn't that I was too sick to immediately send the email. I have 8ams and lab at 11. I woke up feeling terrible both times and went back to sleep and woke up at about 10:30 and remembered to send the email then.

To the first point: those are standard working hours. She's there 8 hours a day. It's not as if she only works a few hours a day and it's bad luck that you're busy at that time. You can't expect them to train you at 7pm. If your classes are "early in the day" then go...later in the day, like in the afternoon.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned and cranky but it is far from obvious to me that you wouldn't give notice when you're sick. In fact it would be obvious to me to do that immediately.

To your first point, I know those are standard working hours, but I go to a small private school where almost all the classes run from 8-3:30. I had been going during the only gap I had between 11 and 2 for two days. I have no issue with them not being able to train me on the larger experiments. That's why I was wondering whether I should still stay despite the fact that the lab already has a negative perception of me and that I'd only be doing the smaller experiments.

 

[DokM3m3]

Also, thank you all! I'm here because I know you guys can provide me with the criticism and advice I need.

 

[DokM3m3]

I'm not sure if this will change your responses or not, but I'm also working in another lab during the evenings. It's a clinical lab and I was trained on everything last year, so I can work on my own. The problem is, the lab is working on a bunch of long term clinical trials, and so I can't get anything productive out of it in the next year or two. I joined this lab because I really like the work they do, and because the PI said he has a big independent project ready to give to me once I'm ready. So two questions:

1. Should I still stay despite what's happened so far?
2. I was planning on getting credit for this. Should I do it not for credit now (if I stay), because there's a possibility I can get a B if the senior grad actually doesn't like me? I feel like it's the reverse halo effect, in that they'll criticize me for everything now that I've messed up by being late early on.

 

[longhaul3]

To your first point, I know those are standard working hours, but I go to a small private school where almost all the classes run from 8-3:30. I had been going during the only gap I had between 11 and 2 for two days. I have no issue with them not being able to train me on the larger experiments. That's why I was wondering whether I should still stay despite the fact that the lab already has a negative perception of me and that I'd only be doing the smaller experiments.

I see. It does seem like a rock and a hard place for you then. I remember my friends and I spending very little time in actual classes in college so I figured you were talking a couple hours in lecture a few days a week. I feel for you and I will say that even though you should have called in when you were sick, grad students can be pretty ornery and you shouldn't take it personally.

I didn't work in a lab as an undergrad and we rarely had any undergrads in my lab in med school so I can't give you much specific advice beyond the professionalism part. But if your schedule has your hands tied, it might be best to just explain that, say you wish it would have worked out, and find something else.

 

[longhaul3]

I'm not sure if this will change your responses or not, but I'm also working in another lab during the evenings. It's a clinical lab and I was trained on everything last year, so I can work on my own. The problem is, the lab is working on a bunch of long term clinical trials, and so I can't get anything productive out of it in the next year or two. I joined this lab because I really like the work they do, and because the PI said he has a big independent project ready to give to me once I'm ready. So two questions:

1. Should I still stay despite what's happened so far?
2. I was planning on getting credit for this. Should I do it not for credit now (if I stay), because there's a possibility I can get a B if the senior grad actually doesn't like me? I feel like it's the reverse halo effect, in that they'll criticize me for everything now that I've messed up by being late early on.

(Double post because OP posted this while I was writing my last post.) Interesting situation. Before you make a decision take a minute and reflect on why you're involved in research. Are you doing it to make yourself more competitive for med school (perfectly legitimate) or because you're interested in a career in research? If it's the former, I think it's more about the experience and exposure than anything. For the latter, your productivity and the reputation of the lab(s) you hitch your wagon to is probably more important.

So if you're just interested in getting into med school, I think you're in a more flexible position and you should feel more comfortable to do what you want. Don't burn any bridges but there's no reason to stick around a messy situation if you don't need to.