"Laid back" programs...

[IJL]

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This may be a weird question, but are there any programs that are known for being a little more relaxed?

I'm a competitive applicant, I've just grown very tired of academia and "gunners." Does this mean I should be mostly looking at community programs? Are there any academic programs that don't have that "academia" feel? Might be a ridiculous question or maybe I'm just burnt out.

 

[Trastuz]

This may be a weird question, but are there any programs that are known for being a little more relaxed?

I'm a competitive applicant, I've just grown very tired of academia and "gunners." Does this mean I should be mostly looking at community programs? Are there any academic programs that don't have that "academia" feel? Might be a ridiculous question or maybe I'm just burnt out.

Check out Brigham. High quality program and reputation without the stuffiness. Schedule and perks seemed among the best I saw. Residents were really happy and kept talking about the friendliness of the faculty.

 

[blackbird11384]

Check out Brigham. High quality program and reputation without the stuffiness. Schedule and perks seemed among the best I saw. Residents were really happy and kept talking about the friendliness of the faculty.

+1, and all of the above can also be said for UPenn's program.

 

[Trastuz]

+1, and all of the above can also be said for UPenn's program.

I have to disagree. I visited most of the "top" places and UPenn was, by far, the stuffiest. I probably got reminded 15 times on my interview of the "ivy league training" and they constantly compared themselves to MGH. It felt like severe overcompensation for an inferiority complex.

On top of that, I got the impression that the workload was relatively heavy, especially compared with Brigham.

I admittedly was not impressed with Penn, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I have no doubt it's a fantastic program, but for someone looking for something "laid back" I think most people would agree Brigham >>> Penn. FWIW I didn't match at either.

 

[IJL]

Are there a lot of stuffy programs? That sounds terrible

 

[Trastuz]

This may be a weird question, but are there any programs that are known for being a little more relaxed?

I'm a competitive applicant, I've just grown very tired of academia and "gunners." Does this mean I should be mostly looking at community programs? Are there any academic programs that don't have that "academia" feel? Might be a ridiculous question or maybe I'm just burnt out.

Are there a lot of stuffy programs? That sounds terrible

Nah, most places are pretty cool. It's radiology. I'm trying to encourage you: you don't have to relegate yourself to community programs to avoid people with sticks shoved up their butt. Some of the most prestigious programs are "laid back," even for radiology. BWH was the first that came to mind.

Not sure how competitive you are or your geographical preference but happy to share details about my 15-20 interviews if you wanna PM me.

 

[cowme]

BWH definitely has a more laid back rep...but if OP wants to avoid a feel of academia (his exact words) going to top tier Harvard affiliate program is probably not the first place to look.

 

[badasshairday]

To the OP, message me, I don't want to name drop certain none top tier programs and make it look like I am talking trash.

 

[ar2388]

the cornell residents were incredibly relaxed and chill and non-gunnerish. maybe even too relaxed and happy

 

[fun8stuff]

BWH definitely has a more laid back rep...but if OP wants to avoid a feel of academia (his exact words) going to top tier Harvard affiliate program is probably not the first place to look.

Yeah, agree. Depends what you mean by laid back. Most of these people are probably gunners who have a distorted definition of "laid back", because they've been gunners all their life. These programs are likely still very far from what you would consider 'laid back'. I would try and figure out how many research projects everyone does (from posters and case reports to retrospective projects). The number of projects everyone does is an indicator of the pressure put on the residents to work during their free time. The more projects, the less laid back the program is. Remember, research projects = time working outside of hospital (cutting into learning time and free time). You can't tell by how the residents act, because they are all self-selected... probably all love the same gunnerish activities (i.e. working 8am - 5pm at the hospital followed by working at home until bed... only to wake up saturday morning at 8am and work until dark on hospital related activities). Just because they are happy or seem relaxed doesn't mean you will be happy or relaxed.

The only truly laid back programs are going to be community programs (filled and run by people with less gunnerish personalities). All the other programs are run by former gunners who promote that same environment: competitive work environment with a majority of work done by residents with a large emphasis on research projects (i.e. enforced work outside of hospital). The community program I rotated through as a med student was so much more laid back... unfortunately there is real and large trade-off in terms education between community and more academic programs that I'm not sure it justifies the more laid-back atmosphere.

Before you can talk about "laid back", you must define it. To these people, "laid back" likely means doing some thing not related to work a couple times per month (or spending 10x the time on work than pleasure). To others (particularly outside of medicine), "laid back" would mean not doing anything related to work outside of work and having a separate life (or perhaps more reasonably a 50:50 split in medicine between work and leisure).

 

[cbtk18]

SDN is never a place to find anything laid back.

 

[IJL]

Yeah, agree. Depends what you mean by laid back. Most of these people are probably gunners who have a distorted definition of "laid back", because they've been gunners all their life. These programs are likely still very far from what you would consider 'laid back'. I would try and figure out how many research projects everyone does (from posters and case reports to retrospective projects). The number of projects everyone does is an indicator of the pressure put on the residents to work during their free time. The more projects, the less laid back the program is. Remember, research projects = time working outside of hospital (cutting into learning time and free time). You can't tell by how the residents act, because they are all self-selected... probably all love the same gunnerish activities (i.e. working 8am - 5pm at the hospital followed by working at home until bed... only to wake up saturday morning at 8am and work until dark on hospital related activities). Just because they are happy or seem relaxed doesn't mean you will be happy or relaxed.

The only truly laid back programs are going to be community programs (filled and run by people with less gunnerish personalities). All the other programs are run by former gunners who promote that same environment: competitive work environment with a majority of work done by residents with a large emphasis on research projects (i.e. enforced work outside of hospital). The community program I rotated through as a med student was so much more laid back... unfortunately there is real and large trade-off in terms education between community and more academic programs that I'm not sure it justifies the more laid-back atmosphere.

Before you can talk about "laid back", you must define it. To these people, "laid back" likely means doing some thing not related to work a couple times per month (or spending 10x the time on work than pleasure). To others (particularly outside of medicine), "laid back" would mean not doing anything related to work outside of work and having a separate life (or perhaps more reasonably a 50:50 split in medicine between work and leisure).

Good post, thanks. And that's kind of what I was afraid of.

 

[IJL]

Are academic programs always preferable to community programs (i know that's a huge blanket statement) as far as future job prospects go?

 

[Dr. USMLE]

You can't tell by how the residents act, because they are all self-selected... probably all love the same gunnerish activities (i.e. working 8am - 5pm at the hospital followed by working at home until bed... only to wake up saturday morning at 8am and work until dark on hospital related activities). Just because they are happy or seem relaxed doesn't mean you will be happy or relaxed.

lol...so true and describes a number of residents I personally know.

 

[fun8stuff]

Are academic programs always preferable to community programs (i know that's a huge blanket statement) as far as future job prospects go?

Short answer is that going to a bigger program gives you the chance to make more meaningful connections, which is what really matters.

Chances are really good that you will be doing a fellowship. Only the big academic programs have fellowships. These places favor their own residents, followed by residents from other academic programs. A lot of these people have friends that they trained with, people they trained, or people that trained them at other big academic programs. An LOR will carry a lot more weight if the person reading is friends with or professionally respects the person who wrote it.

But besides these things, you will get a better education at an academic program. You will be taught by people who have spent the majority of their radiology career only in that one area..You will get exposure to the latest IR procedures and areas such as cardiac imaging and OB ultrasound that you would not necessarily see a high volume of at a community program. Not only when staffing out, but also dedicated daily lectures and endless board reviews, which a lot community programs do not get. More of your attendings will take an interest in teaching... and more will be on committees to keep you up to date on the latest changes- like with the new changes with boards that is occurring now. Usually you will have a bigger class to split the call with, which gives you more time for learning.... and will likely get more time off for board prep. You just have to put up with all the gunners and the politics that goes along with academia.

This is not to say community programs can't produce great radiologists. I'm sure they do. I just think their residents tend to be disadvantaged.

 

[shark2000]

Short answer is that going to a bigger program gives you the chance to make more meaningful connections, which is what really matters.

Chances are really good that you will be doing a fellowship. Only the big academic programs have fellowships. These places favor their own residents, followed by residents from other academic programs. A lot of these people have friends that they trained with, people they trained, or people that trained them at other big academic programs. An LOR will carry a lot more weight if the person reading is friends with or professionally respects the person who wrote it.

But besides these things, you will get a better education at an academic program. You will be taught by people who have spent the majority of their radiology career only in that one area..You will get exposure to the latest IR procedures and areas such as cardiac imaging and OB ultrasound that you would not necessarily see a high volume of at a community program. Not only when staffing out, but also dedicated daily lectures and endless board reviews, which a lot community programs do not get. More of your attendings will take an interest in teaching... and more will be on committees to keep you up to date on the latest changes- like with the new changes with boards that is occurring now. Usually you will have a bigger class to split the call with, which gives you more time for learning.... and will likely get more time off for board prep. You just have to put up with all the gunners and the politics that goes along with academia.

This is not to say community programs can't produce great radiologists. I'm sure they do. I just think their residents tend to be disadvantaged.

1+.

You have to learn how to interact with gunners. Otherwise, don't do radiology.

As a radiologist you have to interact with referring physicians day in and day out. Most of these physicians have high egos, sometimes at a pathologic level. You have to learn how to handle these interactions and residency is the best place.