Larry Hickey, Disparity of Force Shooting

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loveoforganic

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Interesting read. Thanks for sharing. I don't know if you have been following UTSW's blog, but the part about Mr. Hickey's holster being lost in evidence reminded me of how the UTSW's path slides were lost. It truly is amazing how such a small error can have such a profound impact on a person's life. Yet another reminder to be sure to do your job, and do it well... no matter what it is.

I think that there was a lot of good advice in that article that pertains to any legal trouble - especially the part about making sure you have the story straight in your head before you start talking. It sounds like Mr. Hickey was unfairly targeted in this case, but it was nice to see he prevailed. (This coming from somebody who has never owned a gun in his life)
 
FWIW, that story was about Larry Hickey, not Larry Vickers..

But, great read and something that everyone who carries a weapon must consider. No matter how right you are, someone will refute your story and make you the bad guy. I suppose as a police officer, I've already accepted this reality that I'm "always wrong", but I do find it interesting that it's affecting normal citizens now.
 
Interesting read. Thanks for sharing. I don't know if you have been following UTSW's blog, but the part about Mr. Hickey's holster being lost in evidence reminded me of how the UTSW's path slides were lost. It truly is amazing how such a small error can have such a profound impact on a person's life. Yet another reminder to be sure to do your job, and do it well... no matter what it is.

Periodically, but I'll have to look that one up!

FWIW, that story was about Larry Hickey, not Larry Vickers..

But, great read and something that everyone who carries a weapon must consider. No matter how right you are, someone will refute your story and make you the bad guy. I suppose as a police officer, I've already accepted this reality that I'm "always wrong", but I do find it interesting that it's affecting normal citizens now.

Yes, sorry, if a mod could change that, would be great. Found at about 1:30 in the morning, so was pretty tired by the time I got around to finishing and sharing it.
 
I think that there was a lot of good advice in that article that pertains to any legal trouble - especially the part about making sure you have the story straight in your head before you start talking.

The better advice - directly from the police - is don't say ANYTHING - AT ALL - except "I want a lawyer". There was someone who posted a video set here on SDN from a police officer and an attorney, who both gave a multitude of examples of how any- and everything you say WILL be twisted, and that to "lawyer up" (Thanks, "Law and Order"!) is the number 1, 2, and 3 thing to do. #4 is zip it up tight.
 
The better advice - directly from the police - is don't say ANYTHING - AT ALL - except "I want a lawyer". There was someone who posted a video set here on SDN from a police officer and an attorney, who both gave a multitude of examples of how any- and everything you say WILL be twisted, and that to "lawyer up" (Thanks, "Law and Order"!) is the number 1, 2, and 3 thing to do. #4 is zip it up tight.

That is an EXCELLENT video that everybody should watch, and I generally agree that good things seldom come from talking to the police. But after a self-defense incident in which someone is injured or a weapon is drawn/used, there is a happy medium.

You absolutely should not get into long descriptions or explanations or statements.

You should
- assert that you were attacked, were in fear for your life, and intend to pursue legal action against your assailants
- point out potential witnesses (if the police don't find/question them, they're gone forever)
- point out potential evidence (if the police don't find/record it, it's gone forever)
- [if applicable] point out that you administered first aid or called an ambulance for your attacker
- THEN shut up and do not allow yourself to be teased, cajoled, provoked, or intimidated into saying anything

There is a world of difference between

Option A: "I want a lawyer"

Option B: "That man [pointing] attacked me, he said he was going to kill me, I believed him, I was afraid I was going to die, I defended myself. His buddy threw his knife into that storm drain [pointing]. That man [pointing] saw the whole thing. I want to press charges but really would feel better if I waited until an attorney advises me before saying anything else. Thank you for coming so quickly officer." And THEN shut up.

The police aren't our friends, but they're not automatically enemies either. It's possible to help them do the right thing without blabbing yourself into unjustified railroad-style trouble.



Point two, and just as important. If you're going to exercise your CCW rights and carry, or if you own a gun for home defense, the time to think about legal representation if you're ever forced to defend yourself is now. That means knowing WHICH attorney you're going to call at 2 AM, and preferably having a pre-existing relationship with him (even if it's only paying him $100 to say hello at his office).

Being a member of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (it's cheap!) who published the pdf in the OP, or having an umbrella policy that will protect your assets, or even paying for actual CCW liability insurance are also reasonable things to do.


Obviously IANAL.
 
I agree with pretty much everything said here. I still love watching "The First 48" and it absolutely boggles my mind how these people sing like canaries after the detectives perform a little verbal judo.

I wouldn't say much to the cops, but clamming up and acting like an ass is also a quick way to move yourself into the #1 suspect spot.
 
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