Late career change:pursue PsyD or ABA?

[1laguy]

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Any relevant advice would be appreciated.

I'm a 31y/o American who got a BA in English, went to culinary school in Vancouver, BC and then went to work in TV/Film production in NYC and LA. I'm tired of dead end production jobs that rarely satisfy my need for creativity or to help others. I dream of moving back to Vancouver for work and/or grad school.

I've always enjoyed working with and interacting with children and know of a great surge in autism cases--so I am considering getting a MA in counseling and taking a few extra courses to become a BCBA. I might do this online through an American university and move to Vancouver in the mean time. On the other side, my experience with autistic people is limited--and I haven't had any luck getting an entry level job in the field to see if I like it. I also am not thrilled with the tenants of ABA (even though I do realize it's been proven to work).

I also am very empathetic and a great listener. I think I'd make a great psychotherapist. But, I'm not sure I want to dedicate 5 years to getting a PsyD at my age. And I don't know of any way to see if I'd actually enjoy being a therapist. Additionally, it seems difficult to get into these programs and my lack of psychology experience may make this option moot.

I suppose a big question would be--would my MA in counseling and becoming a BCBA allow me to do anything other than working with autistic people if it didn't suit me? Would I be able to be licensed to practice psychology? I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to bill people's insurance...

Again, thanks for any input you could give me.

 

[justme08]

And I don't know of any way to see if I'd actually enjoy being a therapist. /QUOTE]

Regarding the above part of your post I'd highly suggest finding a volunteer job. Both NY and Vancover are big cities so they should have a variety of options, probably even something where you could volunteer around children. This will give you a better feel for if it's what you really want to do. But, if for some reason, your first volunteer position leaves a bad impression in your mind, try another one, because there is so much variance in the field, just to make sure it wasn't the place you were volunteering at and not you.

You specifically mentioned PsyD, so I'm assuming you have no to little desire to pursue research or an academic career. I'm not familiar with Canada, but there are only a handful of funded PsyD programs in the states, same with Masters.

About age, I'm older than you with a family and going for the PhD. There are several on here who are even older than me and doing it as well.

 

[lookitssara]

First, you'll want to make sure to start thinking/saying "people with autism" instead of "autistic people". It's some peoples big biggest pet peeve, and you wouldn't want to offend a a connection in the field!

Second, I know at least where I live, there are lots of postings from families who are looking for someone to do ABA with their child for a few hours a week. They just want someone with experience with children - they do their own ABA training. This could certainly give you a taste.

An MA in counseling/clinical psychology/therapy would allow you to provide mental health services to a wide variety of people. You could become licensed as a professional counselor and/or mental health service provider, but (aside from Michigan where you can be a Limited License Psychologist), you would not be a psychologist.

 

[stigmata]

First, you'll want to make sure to start thinking/saying "people with autism" instead of "autistic people". It's some peoples big biggest pet peeve, and you wouldn't want to offend a a connection in the field!

This basically goes for any person with a diagnosis medical or psychiatric.

 

[futureapppsy2]

First, you'll want to make sure to start thinking/saying "people with autism" instead of "autistic people". It's some peoples big biggest pet peeve, and you wouldn't want to offend a a connection in the field!

OTOH, there's a sizeable chunk--though probably still a minority--of the austistic community who prefer the term "austic" as they fell autism is in ingrained and intregral part of their very being--something we (in my current lab) all learned when we recently started research invovling adults on the autism spectrum ande were told to use "austic people" instead of "people with autism." Person first language ("people with..."" should be your go-to language in regards to people with all types of disabilities, but there's considerable disagreement about this in the disability community. Similar to how the Deaf community uses "Deaf" and "Hard of Hearing," there's been some movement --still in its infancy--towards using "big D" language ("Disabled") with disability (i.e., Disabled people), reframing disability as culture and not pathology. It's all very complicated, though person first language should definitely be your standard language usage with autism and all others disabilities (excluding Deafness, which is not considered a disability in the Deaf community [and then there's the separaration between "little d" deaf and "big D" Deaf and the fact that not all deaf people also identify as Deaf or Hard of Hearing]).

In sum, the language surrounding disability is a maze and a minefield, though person-first language is probably the safest--and APA sanctioned--way to go.

This basically goes for any person with a diagnosis medical or psychiatric

Ah, but here's another rub--a lot of people with disabilities and people in the disability field reject the medical view of disability, choosing instead to view it as a matter of function, not pathology, per se. There's considerable debate between how much--or if--to separate "disability" from "health," especially for people with physical disabilities.

 

[IT514]

Any relevant advice would be appreciated.

I'm a 31y/o American who got a BA in English, went to culinary school in Vancouver, BC and then went to work in TV/Film production in NYC and LA. I'm tired of dead end production jobs that rarely satisfy my need for creativity or to help others. I dream of moving back to Vancouver for work and/or grad school.

I've always enjoyed working with and interacting with children and know of a great surge in autism cases--so I am considering getting a MA in counseling and taking a few extra courses to become a BCBA. I might do this online through an American university and move to Vancouver in the mean time. On the other side, my experience with autistic people is limited--and I haven't had any luck getting an entry level job in the field to see if I like it. I also am not thrilled with the tenants of ABA (even though I do realize it's been proven to work).

I also am very empathetic and a great listener. I think I'd make a great psychotherapist. But, I'm not sure I want to dedicate 5 years to getting a PsyD at my age. And I don't know of any way to see if I'd actually enjoy being a therapist. Additionally, it seems difficult to get into these programs and my lack of psychology experience may make this option moot.

I suppose a big question would be--would my MA in counseling and becoming a BCBA allow me to do anything other than working with autistic people if it didn't suit me? Would I be able to be licensed to practice psychology? I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to bill people's insurance...

Again, thanks for any input you could give me.

I'm a neuropsych assessment person, so I can tell you that referrals for ABA therapy do go beyond autism diagnoses. You could do a lot of work in schools and hospitals with a variety of issues that arise in typically developing kids. Theres also some good lit out there for behavioral approaches to the management of dementia and traumatic brain injury. Having a MA in counseling would surely expand the range of therapies you could work with, but only going ABA is not limiting in and of itself to autism. The onlything I would recommend is a good program to provide you with these experiences. So just be careful where you look and be wary of online programs that try to oversell a degree to you. I'm not a BCBA but I've seen them at work...very hands on, so I'm not sure how that could be done well online in my opinion.

Regarding not being thrilled about the tenants of behaviorism, I know a lot of BCBAs who are not "radical behaviorists" who try to beat you over the head with the Skinner/Watson gospel. I've been told that some of their profs, however, did. So just be wary of that and I would say dont worry about it as long as you are confident in your own worldview. Some of that suff can go as far as essentially blaming parents and teachers and the whole world for creating autism, but most of it is pretty harmless.

As far as billing goes...I should know more about that, but I'm still a student so I dont do a lot of that stuff directly. I know that, where I am, a lot of ABA is paid out of pocket. I know there is a CPT code for autism, so my guess is that some insurance will pay for it...but do not quote me on that. Some states (California, Penn, S. Carolina) have funds for families to pay for treatment.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[ClinPsycMasters]

OTOH, there's a sizeable chunk--though probably still a minority--of the austistic community who prefer the term "austic" as they fell autism is in ingrained and intregral part of their very being--something we (in my current lab) all learned when we recently started research invovling adults on the autism spectrum ande were told to use "austic people" instead of "people with autism." Person first language ("people with..."" should be your go-to language in regards to people with all types of disabilities, but there's considerable disagreement about this in the disability community. Similar to how the Deaf community uses "Deaf" and "Hard of Hearing," there's been some movement --still in its infancy--towards using "big D" language ("Disabled") with disability (i.e., Disabled people), reframing disability as culture and not pathology. It's all very complicated, though person first language should definitely be your standard language usage with autism and all others disabilities (excluding Deafness, which is not considered a disability in the Deaf community [and then there's the separaration between "little d" deaf and "big D" Deaf and the fact that not all deaf people also identify as Deaf or Hard of Hearing]).

In sum, the language surrounding disability is a maze and a minefield, though person-first language is probably the safest--and APA sanctioned--way to go.



Ah, but here's another rub--a lot of people with disabilities and people in the disability field reject the medical view of disability, choosing instead to view it as a matter of function, not pathology, per se. There's considerable debate between how much--or if--to separate "disability" from "health," especially for people with physical disabilities.

I have difficulty giving psychology so much authority to define people like that. How could autism be part of who these people are? It's like MBTI. There are forums like INFJ forum and people just pick up these identities and re-define themselves. I prefer to use a humanistic framework. People can call themselves whatever they like but I'm not going to participate in that.

These labels are only there for diagnostic reasons, to help us make predictions.

 

[1laguy]

I'm a neuropsych assessment person, so I can tell you that referrals for ABA therapy do go beyond autism diagnoses. You could do a lot of work in schools and hospitals with a variety of issues that arise in typically developing kids. Theres also some good lit out there for behavioral approaches to the management of dementia and traumatic brain injury. Having a MA in counseling would surely expand the range of therapies you could work with, but only going ABA is not limiting in and of itself to autism. The onlything I would recommend is a good program to provide you with these experiences. So just be careful where you look and be wary of online programs that try to oversell a degree to you. I'm not a BCBA but I've seen them at work...very hands on, so I'm not sure how that could be done well online in my opinion.

Regarding not being thrilled about the tenants of behaviorism, I know a lot of BCBAs who are not "radical behaviorists" who try to beat you over the head with the Skinner/Watson gospel. I've been told that some of their profs, however, did. So just be wary of that and I would say dont worry about it as long as you are confident in your own worldview. Some of that suff can go as far as essentially blaming parents and teachers and the whole world for creating autism, but most of it is pretty harmless.

Hope that helps a bit.

Thanks, that does help. The online program is through Nova Southeastern. Have you heard of them?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I don't recommend any online training; you'd be better off with a residential program.

 

[IT514]

I'm totally with T4C. As someone on the assessment end of things who will be making referrals to therapists, I guarantee you that if I have a choice to refer to someone who has an online degree vs someone who is board certified in ABA and went through a good residential program, I'll go with the residential degree person almost always.

 

[docma]

The ABA training is a great way to pick up a skill set and find a doorway into the field. Once you are in an organization that provides these services you will see what are the pathways to various applied psychology lines of work. You will be much more able to assess the return on your investment in additional schooling after you've done some practice so starting with the ABA and then seeing where you really want to be makes much more sense than the PsyD at this point.

 

[1laguy]

The ABA training is a great way to pick up a skill set and find a doorway into the field. Once you are in an organization that provides these services you will see what are the pathways to various applied psychology lines of work. You will be much more able to assess the return on your investment in additional schooling after you've done some practice so starting with the ABA and then seeing where you really want to be makes much more sense than the PsyD at this point.

Thanks for the great advice. To become a BCBA, though, you need to have a Master's degree. That's why I think I'm going to first take a mental health counseling program which has the ABA piggy backed on afterward.

I'm thinking that LMHC certification would allow me to explore more opportunities, or am I wrong? Is that basically useless and I should just get the ABA study done in the shortest time possible? I know this school is working on getting a shorter Master's program, only focused on ABA.

 

[docma]

Becoming licensed always increases your employablity (LCSW, MFT, LPC, LMHC). Don't invest in a grad program that doesn't have a good record of students becoming licenses soon after completing the program.