Late COMLEX PE fail...what do I do?

[ProfAnon]

The PE was started as an English speaking exam and is now just a way to charge medical students more money. To defend their need for the test, they fail 0-1 students each test day. These people have no deficits just were the lucky of the draw.

I am no fan of the PE or the NBOME, but I assure you that there is no random failing of X number of students. Most students who fail the PE were well known to the faculty before their failure, and occasionally someone will have a bad day. Trust me, we would be screaming loudly if it was completely random. I have seen the PE sink a couple of otherwise strong students, but they failed the humanistic domain, and it did not come as a huge surprise (to the faculty, I think the student's were surprised). But anyway, everyone is free to ignore my advice. During most remediations, the facilitators pick up on something the student's were not even aware of. Also remediation only takes a day or two.

My only point in all of this is 1) I don't think it is wise to purposely leave your school in the dark about your retake plans, considering the possible disciplinary action, and 2) I would try and figure out some remediation plan and not rely on the people in this thread who say it is completely random so remediation is pointless.

Good luck to the OP, let us know how it goes when all is said and done. Despite what it may seem, I am rooting for your success!

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[doing_all_the_things]

Update: My school called me and agreed it was in my best interest to retake PE in December and set up a remediation day Monday with the PE the following day. The remediation itself wasn't very extensive consisting of only a single case and a talk on strategy. My evaluators did not find any deficiency in my performance and allowed me to fly to Chicago to take it. So I took it and I still dont feel like I did all that well. I watched every Kauffman video and read the entire JB review book in preparation. Hopefully I passed this time around but because I really dont know what exactly I did wrong the first time I'm not sure if I improved very much. I failed the data gathering and SOAP note sections last time so I tried to focus more on those. All I can do now is wait and pray. If anyone has any suggestions for the worst case scenario of failing to match because of this please let me know. Again, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread! Thank you for all the different opinions and advice.

 

[Wjldenver]

Update: My school called me and agreed it was in my best interest to retake PE in December and set up a remediation day Monday with the PE the following day. The remediation itself wasn't very extensive consisting of only a single case and a talk on strategy. My evaluators did not find any deficiency in my performance and allowed me to fly to Chicago to take it. So I took it and I still dont feel like I did all that well. I watched every Kauffman video and read the entire JB review book in preparation. Hopefully I passed this time around but because I really dont know what exactly I did wrong the first time I'm not sure if I improved very much. I failed the data gathering and SOAP note sections last time so I tried to focus more on those. All I can do now is wait and pray. If anyone has any suggestions for the worst case scenario of failing to match because of this please let me know. Again, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread! Thank you for all the different opinions and advice.

Let us know the results when you get them. I personally have a real problem with the PE exam because I've seen students who have done quite well on their boards fail this test. And in the fourth year, after spending $200K+ in tuition dollars. Heck, its not like you're going to graduate and perform brain surgery shortly thereafter. You will learn how to become a competent physician during your residency. And the NBOME should only fail the extreme outliers in my opinion (1 or 2%).

In regard to PE prep, I've seen a number of schools perform poorly in this area as well. For example, one school I'm familiar with video tapes their students practicing for the PE exam but does not have the students view the video of themselves while receiving a detailed critique. Go figure... I do know that the WV PE review class is very well taught, and they sit down with their students and review videos of them in detail in order to improve their skills. But hopefully, you made it through on your 2nd attempt and you will not need to consider taking the WV PE review class before a third attempt.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Update: My school called me and agreed it was in my best interest to retake PE in December and set up a remediation day Monday with the PE the following day. The remediation itself wasn't very extensive consisting of only a single case and a talk on strategy. My evaluators did not find any deficiency in my performance and allowed me to fly to Chicago to take it. So I took it and I still dont feel like I did all that well. I watched every Kauffman video and read the entire JB review book in preparation. Hopefully I passed this time around but because I really dont know what exactly I did wrong the first time I'm not sure if I improved very much. I failed the data gathering and SOAP note sections last time so I tried to focus more on those. All I can do now is wait and pray. If anyone has any suggestions for the worst case scenario of failing to match because of this please let me know. Again, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread! Thank you for all the different opinions and advice.

You did what you could. I think you will pass. As for the second, we will cross that bridge when it comes time. Good job, and thanks for the update.

 

[moonwake]

Update: My school called me and agreed it was in my best interest to retake PE in December and set up a remediation day Monday with the PE the following day. The remediation itself wasn't very extensive consisting of only a single case and a talk on strategy. My evaluators did not find any deficiency in my performance and allowed me to fly to Chicago to take it. So I took it and I still dont feel like I did all that well. I watched every Kauffman video and read the entire JB review book in preparation. Hopefully I passed this time around but because I really dont know what exactly I did wrong the first time I'm not sure if I improved very much. I failed the data gathering and SOAP note sections last time so I tried to focus more on those. All I can do now is wait and pray. If anyone has any suggestions for the worst case scenario of failing to match because of this please let me know. Again, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread! Thank you for all the different opinions and advice.

Feeling your pain buddy I got my scores back the same day you did and failed the OMM and SOAP NOTE.... I'm a 3rd year so I am not in the same boat remediation wise, but I hope you passed man. Glad you got a retake in before the deadline. This process is so damn defeating.

 

[DO2015CA]

Feeling your pain buddy I got my scores back the same day you did and failed the OMM and SOAP NOTE.... I'm a 3rd year so I am not in the same boat remediation wise, but I hope you passed man. Glad you got a retake in before the deadline. This process is so damn defeating.

You took your PE too early. Why? You were alongside all 4th years who have a year experience. A direct comparison will yield worse outcomes.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Sorry you didn’t pass man . Though, I’m curious, why in the world did you take it early third year?

I would have done it if my school had allowed. It's one of those things I feel you should get out of the way, especially before learning the "bad habits" of third year

 

[DO2015CA]

I would have done it if my school had allowed. It's one of those things I feel you should get out of the way, especially before learning the "bad habits" of third year

Meh, I feel like the only beneficial thing my school does is require us to wait until spring semester. Not only is it unfair to take away already limited amount of spots from 4th years but even if you have to stop bad habits the experience of doing physical exams for an entire year does help with the PE.

 

[moonwake]

You took your PE too early. Why? You were alongside all 4th years who have a year experience. A direct comparison will yield worse outcomes.

Sorry you didn’t pass man . Though, I’m curious, why in the world did you take it early third year?

I would have done it if my school had allowed. It's one of those things I feel you should get out of the way, especially before learning the "bad habits" of third year

I go to KCOM and they have us take it between November and May 3rd year. We also do a full length practice one and they watch them and grade them and I passed mine in September. We do about 20 equivalent practice patients 1st and 2nd year as well and I always got super high grades on all of them and on my full length I got around an 80%. Our school also has 10% of the class fail? It's a broken system. I was falsely reassured. Really sucks because I'm wanting to specialize and apparently out of the 240 programs I can only apply to 60 of them because of the fail. The failure rate numbers are too high for all D.O students. Is the CS the same failure rate for M.Ds?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I go to KCOM and they have us take it between November and May 3rd year. We also do a full length practice one and they watch them and grade them and I passed mine in September. We do about 20 equivalent practice patients 1st and 2nd year as well and I always got super high grades on all of them and on my full length I got around an 80%. Our school also has 10% of the class fail? It's a broken system. I was falsely reassured. Really sucks because I'm wanting to specialize and apparently out of the 240 programs I can only apply to 60 of them because of the fail. The failure rate numbers are too high for all D.O students. Is the CS the same failure rate for M.Ds?

The CS used to be a test that you simply showed up for. Then the MDs complained it was a useless test and then the failure rate skyrocketed

I don't see how your school can have such a high failure rate. WesternU has a 0% to 1% failure rate

 

[sabsaf123]

https://www.atsu.edu/kirksville-college-of-osteopathic-medicine/about-kcom/comlex-scores

It looks like the most recent data shows that 14% failed

 

[moonwake]

Yeah something is obviously wrong. I know it's no excuse for having failed. I obviously was inadequately prepared in some way. I think our school is not giving us realistic feedback. I would have loved for them to have said wow you suck and have me remediate my practice full length so I wouldn't have failed on the real one.

The CS used to be a test that you simply showed up for. Then the MDs complained it was a useless test and then the failure rate skyrocketed

I don't see how your school can have such a high failure rate. WesternU has a 0% to 1% failure rate

https://www.atsu.edu/kirksville-college-of-osteopathic-medicine/about-kcom/comlex-scores

It looks like the most recent data shows that 14% failed

 

[DO2015CA]

National average has been low 90s for a few years now, hasn’t it?

Our dean told us the national average was 85% for the class of 2019

And it’s not from the students all of a sudden sucking. They are choosing to fail more. More money and they can claim the need for the test

 

[BorntobeDO?]

And it’s not from the students all of a sudden sucking. They are choosing to fail more. More money and they can claim the need for the test

If the national average has dropped to 85% than that is just real crappy on NBOME's part. Just nonsense.

 

[ciestar]

I go to KCOM and they have us take it between November and May 3rd year. We also do a full length practice one and they watch them and grade them and I passed mine in September. We do about 20 equivalent practice patients 1st and 2nd year as well and I always got super high grades on all of them and on my full length I got around an 80%. Our school also has 10% of the class fail? It's a broken system. I was falsely reassured. Really sucks because I'm wanting to specialize and apparently out of the 240 programs I can only apply to 60 of them because of the fail. The failure rate numbers are too high for all D.O students. Is the CS the same failure rate for M.Ds?

Since the changed how it is scored, the CS rate has dropped. Data my school gave me said CS had a 95% pass rate.

My schools’s dropped from 99 to 93% so now we have a lot more hoops to jump through to even sign up for CS.

 

[DO2015CA]

Same thing happened at my school. Ironically, our tuition went up to pay for these "opportunities."

Your tuition was going up regardless. Might as well get something out of it.

Joking of course

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

National average has been low 90s for a few years now, hasn’t it?

Our dean told us the national average was 85% for the class of 2019

That's just ridiculous. When I took the test, I remember speaking with some Touro CA kids and we both agreed our schools over prepared us for PE

 

[ProfAnon]

National average has been low 90s for a few years now, hasn’t it?

Our dean told us the national average was 85% for the class of 2019

The national average for the PE has consistently been in the 92-93% range over all the years that the NBOME has the data online (last 5 years), it has never dropped to 85%. In fact, the first-time pass rate for the PE is more consistent than the Level 1 first-time pass rate. I think one could definitely make an argument that 92-93% is quite low however.

 

[doing_all_the_things]

Update: I passed the PE on the 2nd attempt! This has been the most stressful part of my medical school career by far and I dont wish it on anyone. I do not believe I would have been able to take this test again in time for match if not for the help of the people on this forum. Posting pictures of the open date for me was above and beyond @AlbinoHawk DO and @BorntobeDO?. This PE could have completely derailed my career and I'm so grateful for the help and support I received from everyone. Thanks guys.

 

[moonwake]

CONGRATS!

 

[Medet123]

Update: I passed the PE on the 2nd attempt! This has been the most stressful part of my medical school career by far and I dont wish it on anyone. I do not believe I would have been able to take this test again in time for match if not for the help of the people on this forum. Posting pictures of the open date for me was above and beyond @AlbinoHawk DO and @BorntobeDO?. This PE could have completely derailed my career and I'm so grateful for the help and support I received from everyone. Thanks guys.

Hey in same boat! I could've written this post. Congrats , just wondering are you releasing?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Update: I passed the PE on the 2nd attempt! This has been the most stressful part of my medical school career by far and I dont wish it on anyone. I do not believe I would have been able to take this test again in time for match if not for the help of the people on this forum. Posting pictures of the open date for me was above and beyond @AlbinoHawk DO and @BorntobeDO?. This PE could have completely derailed my career and I'm so grateful for the help and support I received from everyone. Thanks guys.

Whoot Whoot!

 

[doing_all_the_things]

Hey in same boat! I could've written this post. Congrats , just wondering are you releasing?

Yes I imagine it's in our best interests to release the results a few weeks before the rank lists are due.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hey in same boat! I could've written this post. Congrats , just wondering are you releasing?

I think you need to release so they know you passed.

Yes I imagine it's in our best interests to release the results a few weeks before the rank lists are due.

I agree

 

[DO2015CA]

Update: I passed the PE on the 2nd attempt! This has been the most stressful part of my medical school career by far and I dont wish it on anyone. I do not believe I would have been able to take this test again in time for match if not for the help of the people on this forum. Posting pictures of the open date for me was above and beyond @AlbinoHawk DO and @BorntobeDO?. This PE could have completely derailed my career and I'm so grateful for the help and support I received from everyone. Thanks guys.

Congrats! I’m glad you didn’t delay to get approval from your school

 

[doing_all_the_things]

Congrats! I’m glad you didn’t delay to get approval from your school

If I had waited to schedule it until after they would have made me do an entire month of remediation and I would have absolutely missed the match deadline. Having it already scheduled by the time I talked to the dean helped my case I think.

 

[DO2015CA]

If I had waited to schedule it until after they would have made me do an entire month of remediation and I would have absolutely missed the match deadline. Having it already scheduled by the time I talked to the dean helped my case I think.

Ya exactly which would’ve been ridiculous.

 

[doing_all_the_things]

Are we all in agreement that I should update my ERAS with the passed PE? I currently have no score on file, so as soon as I release they will see the pass and the previous failed attempt. Some people have recommended that I simply send a pdf of my passed PE report and not update ERAS. I've been getting some questions on this.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Update: I passed the PE on the 2nd attempt! This has been the most stressful part of my medical school career by far and I dont wish it on anyone. I do not believe I would have been able to take this test again in time for match if not for the help of the people on this forum. Posting pictures of the open date for me was above and beyond @AlbinoHawk DO and @BorntobeDO?. This PE could have completely derailed my career and I'm so grateful for the help and support I received from everyone. Thanks guys.

You would have done the same for us, man. We are all in this boat together

Glad to hear that you passed. Good luck in the match!

 

[DO2015CA]

Are we all in agreement that I should update my ERAS with the passed PE? I currently have no score on file, so as soon as I release they will see the pass and the previous failed attempt. Some people have recommended that I simply send a pdf of my passed PE report and not update ERAS. I've been getting some questions on this.

You must update before the programs have their rank meeting. The score update emails work for getting interviews and what not but most programs I talk to use the eras scores to confirm validity in rank meetings.

Edit: I wasn’t in this situation. The eras scores emails I was referring to was because I hadn’t updated step 2 yet.

 

[trs88]

I would go ahead and update your eras with the pass. At one of my interviews, the PD stated quite clearly that they could not rank an applicant unless all boards were passed. In different interviews (when we discussed paperwork), it was stated that applicants must of passed all boards to be ranked.

If you want a real answer, you can call one of the places you interviewed at directly.

 

[ortnakas]

Are we all in agreement that I should update my ERAS with the passed PE? I currently have no score on file, so as soon as I release they will see the pass and the previous failed attempt. Some people have recommended that I simply send a pdf of my passed PE report and not update ERAS. I've been getting some questions on this.

I’d update it. The fail doesn’t look great, but the pass on second attempt makes it viable to rank you. Without a record everything passed, a lot of program directors won’t rank you since they run the risk of ending up with an intern who can’t actually start July 1.

 

[cromell.MD]

I have a question. So I have a late fail PE as well (my score will be released after the match occurs), is it possible that I can still be ranked?
Also, I'm really afraid that I'll be missing out on the SOAP as well :/

 

[trs88]

I have a question. So I have a late fail PE as well (my score will be released after the match occurs), is it possible that I can still be ranked?
Also, I'm really afraid that I'll be missing out on the SOAP as well :/

What has your school said?

 

[DO2015CA]

I have a question. So I have a late fail PE as well (my score will be released after the match occurs), is it possible that I can still be ranked?
Also, I'm really afraid that I'll be missing out on the SOAP as well :/

What specialty are you interested in?

 

[cromell.MD]

What has your school said?

They honestly didn't say much besides trying to make me do a remediation course in WV but it was already booked up.

What specialty are you interested in?

EM

 

[DO2015CA]

They honestly didn't say much besides trying to make me do a remediation course in WV but it was already booked up.



EM

Perhaps look into delaying graduation a year. You will need to talk to your school.

 

[samac]

I have a question. So I have a late fail PE as well (my score will be released after the match occurs), is it possible that I can still be ranked?
Also, I'm really afraid that I'll be missing out on the SOAP as well :/

You’re applying EM and won’t have a passing score on your PE? Things don’t look good.

 

[doing_all_the_things]

I have a question. So I have a late fail PE as well (my score will be released after the match occurs), is it possible that I can still be ranked?
Also, I'm really afraid that I'll be missing out on the SOAP as well :/

From what I understand, someone has to have met all the graduation requirements to be soap eligible. That includes a passing PE. A program can certainly decide to rank you without a score, but it's unlikely unless you contact them and let them know the score is on the way. I wouldnt tell them about the fail unless they ask, at which point you can cite the very very high pass rate on the 2nd attempt. I'm really sorry this is happening to you. The PE is ridiculous.

 

[Medet123]

From what I understand, someone has to have met all the graduation requirements to be soap eligible. That includes a passing PE. A program can certainly decide to rank you without a score, but it's unlikely unless you contact them and let them know the score is on the way. I wouldnt tell them about the fail unless they ask, at which point you can cite the very very high pass rate on the 2nd attempt. I'm really sorry this is happening to you. The PE is ridiculous.

I thought the consensus is not to contact them that score is on the way, unless they specifically ask, so taking this into consideration some would rank without..

 

[doing_all_the_things]

I thought the consensus is not to contact them that score is on the way, unless they specifically ask, so taking this into consideration some would rank without..

Yeah I would agree with the consensus. Best not to bring attention to it unless explicitly asked for. On the flip side I dont know if not having a PE is an automatic disqualification for some programs. There have certainly been people that have matched without it.

 

[RNthenDoc]

This thread was a rollercoaster of emotions

10/10

 

[Rekt]

Yeah I would agree with the consensus. Best not to bring attention to it unless explicitly asked for. On the flip side I dont know if not having a PE is an automatic disqualification for some programs. There have certainly been people that have matched without it.

Some of my programs (EM) unpromptedly specifically mentioned you will not be ranked without a passing score for all exams, but most programs didn't say anything explicitly so it's probably program dependent.

 

[doing_all_the_things]

I wanted to provide some closure to this thread by stating that I matched into my chosen specialty emergency medicine on Monday March 11th 2019 in the NRMP match. I truly feel like that wouldnt have been possible without you guys. I owe everyone on this thread a debt of gratitude.

 

[DO2015CA]

I wanted to provide some closure to this thread by stating that I matched into my chosen specialty emergency medicine on Monday March 11th 2019 in the NRMP match. I truly feel like that wouldnt have been possible without you guys. I owe everyone on this thread a debt of gratitude.

Grats. Moral of the story is take your PE early in case freak accidents happen.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I wanted to provide some closure to this thread by stating that I matched into my chosen specialty emergency medicine on Monday March 11th 2019 in the NRMP match. I truly feel like that wouldnt have been possible without you guys. I owe everyone on this thread a debt of gratitude.

Thank you for this. I need some good vibes after the SOAP threads.

 

[DO2015CA]

Thank you for this. I need some good vibes after the SOAP threads.

Yes I feel awful for anyone in the soap. Higher people having to soap with overall lower numbers of positions this year.