Latest to take usmle step 2 ck/cs

[focalmd]

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Hello

I'm a mstp student who is applying to gen surg for this year's match. Due to the nature of my program my return to clinic was fairly late into the MS3 class I was rejoining, throwing off my scheduling. I was fairly restricted on finding dates for step 2 and scheduled ck and cs for dec 27 and 31. I'm fairly certain this is enough time to have scores available before programs submit rank lists, but was curious if my scores are absolutely required before being ranked or if it is only necessary to have them completed and passed by graduation. I'd love the chance to push back the exams to find more study time which is hard to come by while interviewing.

Thanks

 

[gutonc]

Every program is different. Some require a CK score to rank, others don't. I personally think you should just go ahead and take it when scheduled just to avoid the issue.

 

[JJMrK]

It seems like more and more are requiring it prior to ranking.

 

[TexasPhysician]

My ortho friend took Step 2's in February - not available by rank. He matched fine.

The answer probably is probably program specific and may be influenced by how good your step 1 is.

 

[Psychotic]

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[TexasPhysician]

I scoured the websites of the programs I applied to for this information. Very roughly, about 1/3 said nothing about it one way or the other, about 1/3 were explicit in saying that you needed a passing score on CK by such and such a date (and a slightly lower number said the same about CS), and about 1/3 said something like "needed before matriculation."

I did not get a warm fuzzy from any of this, and it turns out it did not matter since I recently received a passing CS score, but my advice to anyone reading this is: TAKE and PASS the CK and CS to have your scores in hand no later than August at the end of MS3 / start of MS 4. To be clear, I mean you take the tests in time to have passing scores in hand ideally before you (a) apply, and more importantly absolutely before you (b) buy plane tickets for interviews at places with explicit score requirements.

Trust me, you do not want this hanging over you (especially CS and the very long lead times on grading) during interview season when you are worried about how much $ you are spending to fly to some interview at a program that explicitly requires a passed CS score in hand by Jan 24 or whenever and you don't know if you passed or not, and if you had to retake (at this late date after Jan 1) you will be SOOL on programs having your CS score in time.

Your med school doesn't necessarily know best the timing of these exams, nor do they necessarily have any idea of how important this is to residency programs. My school was not very proactive in telling us to get on the stick, and I have classmates who are now scrambling to take the CS before the end of 2013 so that they have the chance of having a passing score in before ranking. Get very familiar with the CS score reporting periods and plan accordingly.

While programs always want to see passing scores, taking the test and not having scores when you apply can result in your application automatically releasing a failed score to your programs. Other residents click the button to "automatically" release scores and release failed scores.

A classmate of mine had his cs get automatically sent out. He was AOA and top 5 in the class. He went from interviews at Stanford/Harvard to matching at his last option - home program.

Whenever you take the exams, be sure to prepare and pass.

A program that "required" a passing ck waived it for me with no problem. The waters here are very murky.

 

[Psychotic]

While programs always want to see passing scores, taking the test and not having scores when you apply can result in your application automatically releasing a failed score to your programs. Other residents click the button to "automatically" release scores and release failed scores.

A classmate of mine had his cs get automatically sent out. He was AOA and top 5 in the class. He went from interviews at Stanford/Harvard to matching at his last option - home program.

Whenever you take the exams, be sure to prepare and pass.

A program that "required" a passing ck waived it for me with no problem. The waters here are very murky.

There is no more "automatic" sending of test scores through ERAS; any Step score received after your initial transcript release (say you apply to ERAS on 9/15 and get a failing CK or CS score after that, in late September or October), you have to manually request a new transcript gets sent out. At least if you get that bad score back that early, you could probably schedule a retake that could get you a passing score in time for residencies to see in late January; they may not like seeing a fail and a pass, but that would be preferable to them seeing only a fail or not seeing a pass at all. And you avoid uncomfortable conversations with programs when they ask if you have your CS score - I had several interviews where I was asked, and I could truthfully report that I had taken the test but was waiting for the result - but can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be if you knew you had failed but had not yet reported it because you were retaking, etc?

I did not get my CS score until last week, after I had already spent a ton of $ on travel to interviews at programs that require a passing score by late January - if I had failed, it is highly unlikely I could have scheduled a retake in time (before 12/31) to have a passing score available to those programs - I felt a lot of pressure the last few weeks. I kicked myself for not tackling the CS 3 or 4 months prior to when I took it (late September).

I know of at least one medical school that requires students to take CK and CS before the end of the MS3 year. It is a program with an accelerated pre-clinical format, so that timing makes more sense for them, but I still think people mess around too much with these tests and take them too late, leaving themselves with no Plan B if they get a failing CS report late in the app season.

My advice: avoid all the pitfalls and trying to game the reporting schedule and get your passing scores in time for residency applications.

 

[Raryn]

I think it's a poor idea to take CK before you've finished all of your core clinical rotations. Given that a number of medical schools (maybe still a majority, not sure) finish core clinical rotations in June, having CK/CS taken by August is almost certainly not possible for most people. July and/or August of your fourth year are for doing subis in your specialty of interest and getting letters.

 

[Psychotic]

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[Nasrudin]

I'm with psychotic. The CS is now a 2 large-nail biter. Every year they cram more crap you have to do in minutes while maintaining the schmarmy crowd-pleasing style that suits the professionally sensitive lay person that has the ability to tank you for whatever whimsy they dream up. It's a f'n racket. And most of the program people never had to take it. The ones that did, took it when it was looked at as a means of keeping out the Russian bruiser of a doc who would be like....what iz problem....weakness....that iz problem, you need be strong man.... And so on. It was never designed for its current purpose.

So I'm telling all the current 3rd years to take it early. You don't learn how to hit all the test items on it by working clinical wards you just have to practice in a way that resembles test conditions. A very sweet classmate of mine didn't have time to finish the notes--like didn't even fulfill the basics because she always ran out of time. She just took it now. She was crying when I told her based on what she reported to go see her adviser about what to do. You DO NOT want to wager with this nonsense like she did.

Same goes with CK. I realize there are some applicants like EM who have to get the standard program letters or ortho people who have to do aways, but you can do well on these exams by working hard for shelf exams and taking them with quick bursts of super focused review. I say ride the 3rd year train till it's about to come off the rails and get this stuff done.

As my interviews are winding down, I've made it to the 4th year promised land. You do want to compromise this feeling sanguine relief and joy. All I have to do now is show up and work on a few solid rotations and keep my self from transforming into a sloth on the other ones. Test stress at this point would be disaster for paradise.

 

[swamprat]

I took CK early. I grappled with this for months in third year because I did well on Step 1. I had a couple weeks off between third and fourth year. It was painful especially heading straight from my last shelf exam of third year to studying for CK the next morning, but in the end it was worth it. I scored better on my Step 2 with less studying and I feel it was easier because 1) I was so fresh from third year, you def become dumber at least in the core specialties as you progress through fourth year and 2) I studied hard during third year so I knew my stuff right off the bat. Good luck. This is just my opinion my friend who did extremely well on step 1 like high 260s waited and took it recently and his score went down, although not by anything that someone would consider significant so it really probably doesn't matter.

 

[rkaz]

I took my comlex level 2 pe (the usmle cs equivalent) in late July, and I'm so happy I got it done early, especially when I see others in a panic now trying to schedule theirs.

I took my comlex level 2 ce (similar to ck) in late October, which was too late - as I had a lower step 1 score. I was originally planning to take it in late August, but I delayed it since I had no dedicated study days off (as I saved my vacation days for later). Although I'm glad I took the exam when I was ready to, since I passed, I know it hurt me to take it so late, as my score wasn't available until late November. I received 2 interviews within a day of my score coming out, and those places only had 1 or 2 dates left as they were otherwise fully booked. I even had one place notify me that they were waiting on my level 2 score to consider me for an interview, but by the time my score came out, they already had a wait list as there are no more spots. So if you have a lower step 1 score, definitely try to take it earlier if you can (while ensuring to pass of course, as taking it early and failing won't be of any benefit).

 

[Psychotic]

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[SouthernSurgeon]

My recommendation as far as timing:

CK: Take it early. However, do not take it SO early that the score is back before you upload your initial USMLE transcript to ERAS. You want your initial USMLE transcript to contain only your Step I score; then you can control when, how, and if, to release your Step II CK score later on in the process.

CS: Take it as early as humanly possible. Do not delay it. Do not procrastinate and cancel/reschedule it. Just. Get. It. Done.

 

[Psychotic]

.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Students should petition for additional slots to be open for CS, whether another test center or adding Saturdays and Sundays. It is unacceptable that scheduling is a gigantic PITA and rescheduling is nearly impossible.

My other advice concurs with Psychotic's. Finding out I passed CS last week was the greatest sense of relief I had in all of medical school, and that includes step 1 and successfully defending my PhD dissertation. It was do or die, since I knew that if I had failed my chances in the match were sorely damaged if not ruined altogether. In the end I had a few borderline performances, so this is not a test to take lightly.

The best prep is OSCE and an EM rotation right before. The knowledge base is all 3rd yr + step 2 CS first aid (study musculoskeletal!), but you really need that EM format of 10 minute history, 3 minute PE in order to get through the cases on time. I would not take it after inpatient IM or peds, since this test is diametrically opposed to this kind of medicine.

 

[Daodejing]

Great info, all around. Thanks for the insight everyone.