Law/military type considering medicine--what should I know?

[StanMarsh1978]

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Hi everyone--first time poster. I'd be grateful for your insight. My basic information:

I'm 30 years old. I have a B.A. in PoliSci and History from UNC (Chapel Hill) and a J.D. from University of Virginia School of Law. I've been with the military the past five years, in some courtroom/litigation jobs as well as in deployments to the Middle East. Since my deployments, the idea of pursuing a change to medicine has begun to take root, and I'm beginning to read the literature on the subject. Part of the development of this idea has been seeing the reality of the developing world during my deployments, and considering how I could better serve people in severe physical need. There is obviously no substitute for being able to actually heal people. I don't have a wife or kids, and while I'm not opposed to the idea of a family in the future, I'm not driven to put my career aside to live the "white picket fence" life.

I have an SAT of 1520 (800 verbal, 720 math). My undergraduate GPA is about 3.7 overall (I slacked a bit my senior year, to my current chagrin). I took undergraduate biology my freshman year, but that's about it (I did take all the AP science high school courses, but that feels like ancient history). My law school grades were good but not amazing. A post-bac program would be an absolute necessity to do this, obviously.

What should I be considering as I think about this possibility in the next two years? What are some of the best ways for someone like me to test the "call" to medicine--are there missions or organizations that solicit short-term volunteers? How tough are the standards for the top post-bac programs, and what can I do to better meet them? Which ARE the top post-bac programs? Can folks from the top post-bac programs get into top medical schools?

I'm not looking to do this immediately, but I imagine there are a LOT of things I should be thinking about a few years ahead of time. Advice?

 

[Perrotfish]

What should I be considering as I think about this possibility in the next two years?

The time commitment. Please understand that if you scrambled into a post-bac starting this fall, with no delays and a short as possible FM residency with no fellowship, you're going to be an attending physician begining in the Summer of 2018. Until then you're going to be poor and more than a little sleep deprived. Do you want this that much?

What are some of the best ways for someone like me to test the "call" to medicine--are there missions or organizations that solicit short-term volunteers?

There are many. Generally medical missions fall into two categories for volunteers with no medical training: those that require a long commitment and those that cost a significant amount of money for a short mission. There are also various immersion programs that give you the opportunity to shadow in foreign countries. HOWEVER I wouldn't worry too much about missions, to be honest. You're going to spend all of your medical training, and probably the majority of your career, in the American health care system. I'd recommend shadowing doctors in hospitals and private practice, in a variety of settings, to see what it is that they do. If you're only happy with missionary medicine in Haiti, you're probably not going to be very happy in American health care.

Also keep in mind that medicine is very regional. If you're an American doctor, you can't practice anywhere but the US and countries that are so dirt poor they'll accept US charity. You couldn't, for example, go practice in Japan or Europe without a huge lisencing hassle.

Which ARE the top post-bac programs?

Columbia, Breyn Mawr (sp).. a few others. Read through the stickies at the top of the forum

Can folks from the top post-bac programs get into top medical schools?

Yes. Actually folks from any kind of post bac can get into top medical schools, given the right grades. The top program, though, do have very high linkages to top schools. Keep in mind that going to a top school has a lower correlation with later success in medicine than in law. You might be better off focusing on the cheaper state school.

 

[StanMarsh1978]

Perrotfish--thanks, great thoughts. You can only learn so much without actually talking to real people, you know?

I'm fully aware of the imposing amount of time involved. All the more reason not to rush in without thinking carefully and asking questions. Thanks for pointing it out though.

 

[Nuggles]

With your grades and background, you should have little trouble getting into a post bac program. The top 3 post bac programs (the names that I often hear mentioned on here) are: Goucher, Bryn Mawr, and Scripps. However, there are a wide variety of post bac programs that also have great success rates, such as UPenn, Harvard Extension, etc. Ultimately, with your background, I doubt you will have trouble succeeding regardless of which program you go to.

The only weak point of your application (and this'll sound weird) is that you have already taken several college-level science courses (APs in High School and Biology in College). To my knowledge, this generally works AGAINST you, since post bac programs want students who have taken little or none of their premed requirements. It will probably be in your interest to call each individual program you're thinking about to explain your situation. The admissions people I've talked to were all very pleasant and nice, they seem like the understanding sort 🙂

Oh and for a full list of post-bac programs, you can go to http://services.aamc.org/postbac/.

And now for a question of my own, is Columbia really considered one of the top programs? I know they have a 90% success rate, but isn't their attrition rate also high? I've heard a few pretty negative stories about their program. I'm applying there now, so I'd like to know the answer to that :S

 

[StanMarsh1978]

Surely a high school AP Chem course taken at the age of 17 doesn't count though?

 

[StanMarsh1978]

ALSO--I note on a number of the top post-bac programs that statistically, their oldest students tend to be 31/32. Is this happenstance or are these programs known to subtly (or not so subtly) discriminate against older applicants?

 

[Nuggles]

Surely a high school AP Chem course taken at the age of 17 doesn't count though?

You might want to wait for someone more informed to answer that. I'm not too sure of the specifics of what does or doesn't count as a premed requirement, so I don't want to get you worried for nothing (hopefully I haven't already done that 🙁). Did the Bio course you took as an undergrad count towards the prerequisites towards med school? If so, you probably will want to call just in case to double check what the program's stance is on people in your situation (having done one or two courses already). Having said that, there are people in your situation who have been accepted into career changer programs, I'm not too sure what their criteria are though.

As for age, I doubt they're discriminating against older applicants. One of my professors (who also teaches at a medical school) told me that the older students (i.e. those who are in their late 30's and sometimes even 40's) are generally the best students, because they are the most motivated and disciplined among the class. I'm sure the post-bac programs understand this as well and won't rule you out just because you're older than the average post-bacc student.

Just a wild guess: the lack of "older" students (30 isn't THAT old!) in these programs might be due to the fact that the majority of applicants are younger (mid 20's). So while there are less older students in these programs, it could also be that the acceptance rate is constant among both age groups. Obviously I don't know any of this for sure, so it's all speculation. I'm sure other people could probably give you a better idea of what goes on in the admission process (I'm a newcomer myself 😀)

Edit: Also I was wondering, where did you get the statistics for the ages of matriculating students? Did it have any statistics for other things (e.g. GPA, success rates, etc.)? If so, do you mind sharing the source? That's something I'm interested in learning more about 🙂

 

[NewmansOwn]

AP classes, indeed, do not count and, as far as I know, there are no exceptions. As mentioned before, the top three are inarguably Bryn Mawr, Goucher and Scripps at the current time. Several other programs are making a push to be in that top tier, including Johns Hopkins which recently hired a director away from Goucher and UVA, but most agree a few more years of success are necessary to solidify a top-notch reputation.

Far from inducing discrimination, these programs will likely value your age (or, as you should spin it: "life experience"). I am a current Bryn Mawr postbac and the average age of my colleagues is around 25, with only a handful over 30. The programs are, after all, labeled as "career changers" so having a legitimate career prior to matriculation should be highly desirable.

I can personally assure you your scores and work history will make you a top candidate for Bryn Mawr, so long as you get a bit of medical/volunteer exposure under your belt. The military should be a good resource for this, as military hospitals are sometimes understaffed and I believe they still train personnel as EMT-Bs free of charge.

It often seems that older applicants to med school want to get through as quickly as possible, since they don't feel they have the time to goof around taking a few classes and testing the water. If that describes you, I would indeed recommend any of the three aforementioned programs. All will get you the required courses and MCAT prep in 1 calendar year, as well as offer you linkages so you can start medical school right after the postbac finishes.

If you have any specific or personal questions regarding the process in general or Bryn Mawr specifically, don't hesitate to PM me. Best of luck.

 

[tobeatrev]

reach out a little bit to those in the Navy around you (not sure if you are East or West Coast) and you will be surprised by the amount of help/advice you will get. the Navy has really been an advantage for me and all of the shadowing opportunities I've been able to do while in the Navy (I'm a SWO type not JAG) has been easily available and set up a lot of help with the long path I'm on to becoming a doctor. there are a lot of knowledgable Navy Docs on this forum if you don't directly know any Medical Officers (not sure if you are shore or ship based) that could be of help as well with advice. good luck to you.