Leadership position for EC

[londongal]

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how on earth do I go about getting a position like this? Doesn't a leadership position take time, and dedication?

Does an elementary PE assistant coach count? lol

I'm guessing school organizations, but they all take a whiiile to get to any sort of leadership position.

What leadership positions are you guys doing?

 

[Ponger]

how on earth do I go about getting a position like this? Doesn't a leadership position take time, and dedication?

Does an elementary PE assistant coach count? lol

I'm guessing school organizations, but they all take a whiiile to get to any sort of leadership position.

What leadership positions are you guys doing?

I'm smelling troll here but I'll give you an answer anyway.

Yes, a leadership position takes time and dedication - that's precisely why they're considered valuable experiences.

If you want to put "elementary PE assistant coach" on your application, don't be surprised if they "lol" at your application.

What exactly are you expecting? Any leadership position easy to get probably isn't worth doing or would entail you doing way more work than you probably want to do.

My leadership EC's
-Fraternity VP of Development - in my 3rd year in the frat, managed development programs for 30 guys.
-Divisional Treasurer for Club Sports - Oversaw individual club treasurers representative of 26 clubs. Also held a position on the club sports divisional council overseeing the 26 clubs and 700 club sports athletes. Took the position after 1 year as a club-level treasurer and 3 years as a club sports athlete.

Stuff like this takes time for a reason. If you take a significant leadership position without having committed any time previously, you will a) not have much invested, making it easy to quit/do a bad job and b) likely not have the knowledge base to do a good job anyway.

 

[COMBAT MEDIC172]

Like mentioned above leadership positions take time and come in all shapes and sizes. Mine are mostly work related, and medical at the same time. I was fortunate to be a leader in a medical setting.

Leadership:
- Supervisor of a Urology surgical department in a large training hospital
-Over 5 million dollars worth of medical equipment signed out in my name.
-Government credit card holder. In charge of all medical supply purchasing in a surgery clinic. $40,000 monthly budget
-Non commissioned officer
-Team leader in CTMC/Consolidated troop medical clinic. Responsible for opening and closing clinic. Training and counseling soldiers. (2007-2008)
-WLC warrior leaders training (200 hr course). Trains NCO’s on how to train and lead soldiers in combat and during peace time.
-DMIRSi- time keeper specialist for CTMC- consolidated troop medical clinic.
-Shift leader for Emergency Room- responsible for all the medics, and responsibilities associated with emergency room.
-Equal Opportunity representative for Department of Emergency Medicine
-Trained soldiers on BLC/CLS, Basic life savers course, combat life saver course.
- Hand to hand close combat instructor.

 

[Lukkie]

Leadership: Organized and led a successful World of Warcraft raiding guild on Bloodscalp server, Horde side. First horde clear of Molten Core and server first kill of Chromaggus in BWL. 40 main WoW raids ain't no joke son.

 

[Slowpoke]

Leadership: Organized and led a successful World of Warcraft raiding guild on Bloodscalp server, Horde side. First horde clear of Molten Core and server first kill of Chromaggus in BWL. 40 main WoW raids ain't no joke son.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Read all the serious posts about leadership, then got to this one and nearly woke the whole house up.

 

[bigbad]

I don't think OP is a troll.. It's a serious question.

What kinds of things should a pre-med be looking to gain leadership positions in? There's obviously sports but I can't see any other realistic positions besides starting a club.

It's kinda hard for a traditional pre-med to say they started a company and were supervisors of surgical departments in large hospitals, no?

 

[Disinence2]

The fasted and easiest way to be a "leader" is to start your own club, and make yourself the President.

Note: This works best if you actually have a decent idea. If you don't have a decent idea, take a look at the student organizations at another university, find one they have that yours doesn't. Contact the president of the club, say you wanna start up your own branch, ask for a copy of their club charter/organizing documents.

Just change the name and a few details and your good to apply for recognition at your own university. Go to the club fair and sign up some more pre-meds by promising them flashy titles. "President of Monetary Affairs" (get creative)

Then your set, plan some volunteer events and a few fundraisers.

Best of Luck!

 

[Greonis]

how on earth do I go about getting a position like this? Doesn't a leadership position take time, and dedication?

Does an elementary PE assistant coach count? lol

I'm guessing school organizations, but they all take a whiiile to get to any sort of leadership position.

What leadership positions are you guys doing?

Yes.

Therefore, you need to find something that you are both truly interested in and willing to dedicate a good deal of time to. I wouldn't bother with an experience that you're willing to put up with just to boost your credentials. No one here truly knows how medical schools view those with/without leadership experience, for it's an extremely subjective term (consider that many experiences can be presented in certain ways to make leadership seem more prominent) and every school/adcom member probably has different viewpoints. You'd certainly be "covering your bases" in acquiring such an experience, but it is very unlikely to help you if it comes across as fluff. And believe me, it will likely be fluff if you pick it up just so that you can tick the leadership box on your primary AMCAS application.

Regarding your coaching experience, I don't see why that wouldn't qualify. In fact, to me, it seems far more genuine than a some of the bogus material that gets passed off as leadership experience these days, since children can be extremely difficult to work with and are of a wholly different level of capability/maturity. So, if you feel that you had the opportunity to lead while working as a coach, then you should include it as leadership experience.

 

[Mobius1985]

Leadership: Organized and led a successful World of Warcraft raiding guild on Bloodscalp server, Horde side. First horde clear of Molten Core and server first kill of Chromaggus in BWL. 40 main WoW raids ain't no joke son.

You're my hero.

 

[NickNaylor]

Nah, leadership doesn't require time. Just go to organizations and tell them you want to be president. They'll let you.

 

[Mobius1985]

From a conversation with an adcomm member I learned that (at his school) one gets points for the intensity of the leadership experiences listed. Here are some examples of activities I've learned of on SDN and how I'd rank them (opinions, as always, may vary). Multiple experiences increase the score. Ponger and CombatMedic172 would obviously get the highest points. They are very unusual, and few would come close to what they've accomplished. It's OK to shine in another area if leadership isn't your forte.

Level I: 1) President of a club for a year. Led meetings. 2) Start small, common-interest club eg card playing, sport, WOW players. 3) Lead boyscouts in completing badge requirements. 4) Initiate food drive among your friends and collect donations for a food pantry. 5) Member of student senate.

Level II: 1) Club officer multiple years, eventually president. 2) Start new club attracting 20+ members to do community service, or arranging speakers, or to successfully campaign for a change on campus. 3) Shift supervisor or trainer of new employees.

Level III: 1) Board member for health-related organization or charitable foundation for several years who helps organize/participate in health fairs, involved in presentations to get funding for projects, brings opinions to the meetings and campaigns to effect change. 2) President of three clubs some of which do community service or raise money for projects. 3) Organize 3-4 charity concerts with large attendance coordinating multiple committees.

Level IV: 1) Chief Editor of school paper, writing editorials to sway opinion. Direct policy. 2) President of student senate. 3) NCO or officer in the armed forces who trained/led a team/unit in combat.

Level V: 1) Founded a charitable group, raised thousands of dollars for many projects, multiple year involvement, group continues after your departure. Branch groups started in other locations under your leadership. 2) Start a free clinic, recruit doctors, nurses, and student workers to volunteer their time. Raise the money for supplies/pharmaceuticals or get them donated. Help hundreds to thousands of patients in the time you're involved. 3) Start a successful company with 5+ employees and make a profit.

 

[pride4jc727]

Absolutely. To the OP, it does take some time and dedication. But you should put it in conjunction of what you are doing. I love student government and for three years, I worked my way up from a general committee person (foot soldier) to an executive board position as secretary of academics. Be mindful to be very disciplined and to budget your time.

 

[musik2468]

Do you have to be president or vice president of a club in order to count it as leadership experience? What about serving on the executive board but holding a different position, such as secretary or treasurer?

 

[NickNaylor]

Do you have to be president or vice president of a club in order to count it as leadership experience? What about serving on the executive board but holding a different position, such as secretary or treasurer?

I think a lot of it depends on how you frame the experience. If you're able to successfully demonstrate that you had responsibilities and actually did something, then it's leadership experience.

 

[BlueElmo]

I guess I'm Level 1.

 

[Confused2626]

Do you have to be president or vice president of a club in order to count it as leadership experience? What about serving on the executive board but holding a different position, such as secretary or treasurer?

I would say if it is an elected position, YES, it is a leadership position by definition. So elected e-board officers would count

 

[Excelsius]

From a conversation with an adcomm member I learned that (at his school) one gets points for the intensity of the leadership experiences listed. Here are some examples of activities I've learned of on SDN and how I'd rank them (opinions, as always, may vary). Multiple experiences increase the score. Ponger and CombatMedic172 would obviously get the highest points. They are very unusual, and few would come close to what they've accomplished. It's OK to shine in another area if leadership isn't your forte.

Level I: 1) President of a club for a year. Led meetings. 2) Start small, common-interest club eg card playing, sport, WOW players. 3) Lead boyscouts in completing badge requirements. 4) Initiate food drive among your friends and collect donations for a food pantry. 5) Member of student senate.

Level II: 1) Club officer multiple years, eventually president. 2) Start new club attracting 20+ members to do community service, or arranging speakers, or to successfully campaign for a change on campus. 3) Shift supervisor or trainer of new employees.

Level III: 1) Board member for health-related organization or charitable foundation for several years who helps organize/participate in health fairs, involved in presentations to get funding for projects, brings opinions to the meetings and campaigns to effect change. 2) President of three clubs some of which do community service or raise money for projects. 3) Organize 3-4 charity concerts with large attendance coordinating multiple committees.

Level IV: 1) Chief Editor of school paper, writing editorials to sway opinion. Direct policy. 2) President of student senate. 3) NCO or officer in the armed forces who trained/led a team/unit in combat.

Level V: 1) Founded a charitable group, raised thousands of dollars for many projects, multiple year involvement, group continues after your departure. Branch groups started in other locations under your leadership. 2) Start a free clinic, recruit doctors, nurses, and student workers to volunteer their time. Raise the money for supplies/pharmaceuticals or get them donated. Help hundreds to thousands of patients in the time you're involved. 3) Start a successful company with 5+ employees and make a profit.

I am not too sure what role college leadership experience has in admissions, if any. Adcoms would probably know by now that most of the clubs in college aren't that meaningful. After my first year in college, I ceased my participation in any clubs, much less college leadership positions. Although you are listing a specific five level guideline (do you get the specifics from the adcom or do you assume?), my understanding is that what matters is how unique your ECs are. If you are doing something very helpful that shows how well-rounded of a person you are (example would be helping a synagogue and a Christian church, etc), it shouldn't matter if you had several years of presidency in some meaningless college club that basically didn't do much. I have looked at the bottom line of all those clubs - it is far less than what you could do yourself as a single person going door-to-door. So I pretty much agree with your Level V, but anything other than that is just the usual. That extra time would be better spent getting a publication.

I would also like to mention here that I have seen some posts on SDN where the applicant seemed to have "amazing" ECs - such as medical mission trips, helping victims in Katrina, etc - yet their ECs were rates just at about 60%. SDNers get even more amazed and assume that pehaps that was not enough! I disagree. I think that what medschools want to see more is something more useful to your future job - so helping the undeserved areas in any way you can and getting a few research publications on top of the usual ECs are probably the key to almost perfect score in this section. I don't see how someone could get more credit for traveling to Africa for a month or so on a mission vs. someone who spent more time in the ghettos of his/her own state.

 

[Ponger]

I would say if it is an elected position, YES, it is a leadership position by definition. So elected e-board officers would count

Not necessarily. It is definitely debatable as to whether some treasurer and secretary positions are leadership or not. If all those people do is push paper, then it's administration, not leadership. Not a bad skill to have either, organization, but not leadership.

 

[Spiker]

Damn I am only level 2 x.x

 

[BlueElmo]

Damn I am only level 2 x.x

One better than me.

 

[Tin Man]

Leadership: Organized and led a successful World of Warcraft raiding guild on Bloodscalp server, Horde side. First horde clear of Molten Core and server first kill of Chromaggus in BWL. 40 main WoW raids ain't no joke son.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a topic on this board asking if they should put their WoW experience as leadership experience. It made me sad.

For the OP...

The thing with leadership positions is yes, it takes a while to get into a position of any significance. To be honest, I imagine that is by design.

It is obvious to everyone that MOST pre-medical students don't demonstrate their interest in medicine and service toward other humans until they've decided they need to kiss ass to the adcom boards. It's easy enough to get into medical volunteering or shadowing a doctor.

But if someone holds an impressive leadership position, it demonstrates that this person was ALREADY ambitious and committed long before he/she ever got into the pre-medical field. And if that person holds a leadership position in a community service organization, and it took them six years to get to a leadership spot that they then held for four years, that does a LOT toward establishing that you are a sincerely committed person, not just someone who is playing the game.

So you can start applying for manager spots at work, or start doing something now that will hopefully allow you to rise the ranks fast enough to get something vaguely considered "leadership" by the adcoms and won't get you laughed at. But I wouldn't count on getting anything significant enough to be worth posting, and I would focus on strengthening other parts of your application instead.

 

[BlueElmo]

We don't have to take leadership positions in medically-related EC's, right? I have taken leadership positions in a rugby group in my school, and wondering if it counts.

 

[Mobius1985]

We don't have to take leadership positions in medically-related EC's, right?

Correct.

 

[witness23]

you should try to be a SDN mod

 

[Excelsius]

Don't get it..even if your club wasn't as *meaningful* (however you define that) leadership is still a valuable skill, and someone who was president of a "meaningless" club that organized events and supervised others has more leadership than someone who never did any of those things...

I think you have a few different points in here and I may have misinterpreted them.

Mobius thanks for typing that out, good food for thought

edit: come to think of it Excel I'm not really sure if you were agreeing with Mobius or just saying that being unique counts 😕
I think his point was that meaningful=makes an impact, measured in terms of dollars raised or changes made.

I agree with the bolded part. All I am saying is that the importance of club membership/presidency is likely overrated. Sure, it is better to have that than have nothing at all, but I am saying that you could better spend that time by getting involved in research or just helping the undeserved communities within your own backyard. Both of these do require leadership abilities since to take an initiative and do something that has nothing to do with your undergrad requires certain character and perhaps signifies that you care more. Anyone can join a club that is provided by the school. I even think anyone can become a president, but not everyone can go out into the community, find out what can be improved, and do it. You don't have to be called a "president" to show that you are a leader. In the community, you can be very helpful. As a president of a club, you rarely touch anyone's life (unless you have a very unique club). As someone on the ground who directly helps the homeless, you are serving the community directly. From what I have learned from few medschools, I think think this is more important.

 

[Ponger]

I agree with the bolded part. All I am saying is that the importance of club membership/presidency is likely overrated. Sure, it is better to have that than have nothing at all, but I am saying that you could better spend that time by getting involved in research or just helping the undeserved communities within your own backyard. Both of these do require leadership abilities since to take an initiative and do something that has nothing to do with your undergrad requires certain character and perhaps signifies that you care more. Anyone can join a club that is provided by the school. I even think anyone can become a president, but not everyone can go out into the community, find out what can be improved, and do it. You don't have to be called a "president" to show that you are a leader. In the community, you can be very helpful. As a president of a club, you rarely touch anyone's life (unless you have a very unique club). As someone on the ground who directly helps the homeless, you are serving the community directly. From what I have learned from few medschools, I think think this is more important.

I respectfully disagree with your definition of leadership. Leadership is leading people, nothing more nothing less. Those other things you described are very admirable and useful traits, but they're not leadership. They're great examples of selflessness and self-motivation. Both are great qualities in a medical school candidate, but in and of themselves are not leadership. They are, however, facets that make a good leader.

Part of leadership is getting other people to do things that you either don't want to do or don't have time for, for the good of the entire organization. Neither of your examples demonstrate that. Earning/commanding respect in medicine is as important as any other profession. A doctor charged with leading teams of medical students/interns/residents/nurses needs to be able to lead effectively.

 

[Lauren87]

I had a few ECs...I was president of my school's Red Cross Club for 2 years. We hosted the blood drives on campus (4 a year), taught first aid to little children, and annually raised $1,000 for the Red Cross. I was also a committee member for Colleges Against Cancer/Relay for Life, as well as a staff writer on the newspaper and a peer counselor.

To me...it wasn't hard to get my leadership positions because they were things I was genuinely interested in...I had fun and didn't think of my med school application. Sometimes it bothers me when people come up to me in Red Cross or other organizations looking for a position specifically for a resume. I have a lot of friends who do no ECs and I think "aren't you bored?" but that's just me, I like staying busy. IDK how my ECs affected my college admissions, but I did get a scholarship to Chapel Hill and they made have had a sway, because I don't think much as on my application stood out terribly much (besides interning in a cocaine clinic LOL).

but pick an EC YOU LIKE! don't force it on you! oh and personally, I don't think much of internet leadership positions, but that's just me I'm not an adcom member or anything by any means. one more thing-leadership does require time! you feel like crying when you think you're the only one who cares and you are the only one fundraising/setting up/breaking down/organizing whatever. When you're president a lot of times it comes down to just you! And I did talk about that feeling/pressure in my interviews.

good luck!

 

[witness23]

LOL @ swag surfin'

 

[Excelsius]

I respectfully disagree with your definition of leadership. Leadership is leading people, nothing more nothing less. Those other things you described are very admirable and useful traits, but they're not leadership. They're great examples of selflessness and self-motivation. Both are great qualities in a medical school candidate, but in and of themselves are not leadership. They are, however, facets that make a good leader.

Part of leadership is getting other people to do things that you either don't want to do or don't have time for, for the good of the entire organization. Neither of your examples demonstrate that. Earning/commanding respect in medicine is as important as any other profession. A doctor charged with leading teams of medical students/interns/residents/nurses needs to be able to lead effectively.

This is not what you are doing at college level. You never make anyone do anything. There is a club and people are doing things. The president is the central point for organizing everything, but being the president of a club full of teenagers is hardly "leadership." Serving in the community is leadership. I don't know what experience you have with this, but in my experience you always have to work with people to get them do things. You don't just decide you are going to do something and do it without organizing with others. So you may lead one of the smaller groups at a shelter, for example, but you never get a specific title like "president," "supervisor," or anything else like that.

And my final point is that the very same "selfless" act can be proven to be much more useful than "leadership" in the context of some club. Now some clubs can be useful, such as some of the honor societies or that one club that goes into the community every week, but the vast majority are premed "leaders" mill. Some of the most intelligent and mature students in undergrad are not even members and are revolted by all the premed conundrum. There are also a lot of premeds who become "leaders" and drive an already useless organization into the ground. Frankly, these are wasting much needed university resources. Maybe I'll start a club that keeps track of all the other clubs. Now that would be a good idea. Maybe not.

 

[madamebovary]

I am quite concerned about this Leadership thing too and how important it is to med school admission.

I think a lot of the students gun for these positions and treat them like a checklist. Medical schools have secondary essays and interviews to see what you learned from the experience and how they changed you. They probably want to know why you became involved in them, what you feel like you accomplished, and how these things helped you want to become a doctor... i think

 

[Excelsius]

...
I think a lot of the students gun for these positions and treat them like a checklist. Medical schools have secondary essays and interviews to see what you learned from the experience and how they changed you. They probably want to know why you became involved in them, what you feel like you accomplished, and how these things helped you want to become a doctor... i think

You're right. Considering that you pass that first screen due to your glowing ECs, next comes the interview. All they need to ask is just a couple of questions to figure out what a leader you are and what you did. This is where your average leadership in the college club isn't going to stir up much conversation, whereas your research work or your help for that one homeless guy on the street (and how you organized your subgroup) can speak volumes. You can be a college leader and be smug who has no idea how the outside world lives. This is why even holding a good job can be more valuable than club presidency. Most of the clubs are just socialization cliques that involve gossip. You don't even discuss anything intelligent. Some debate clubs and honor club are an exception. Physics club goes without saying😀. But again, not of these are good examples of leadership. More like scholarship.

 

[Ponger]

This is not what you are doing at college level. You never make anyone do anything. There is a club and people are doing things. The president is the central point for organizing everything, but being the president of a club full of teenagers is hardly "leadership." Serving in the community is leadership. I don't know what experience you have with this, but in my experience you always have to work with people to get them do things. You don't just decide you are going to do something and do it without organizing with others. So you may lead one of the smaller groups at a shelter, for example, but you never get a specific title like "president," "supervisor," or anything else like that.

Again, I respectfully disagree. Managing people is leadership. Running a college club is just as much leadership as working in the community at a shelter leading volunteers. Any time you're the head of a volunteer organization (college clubs are purely volunteer), getting people to do stuff is leadership. It doesn't matter if they're teenagers or not. I'm not trying to downplay whatever EC you chose to do, but if you're in the community doing stuff by your lonesome then by definition it's not leadership. And I never said that I didn't have to work with people in order to get them to do things, that's definitely part of leadership.

And my final point is that the very same "selfless" act can be proven to be much more useful than "leadership" in the context of some club. Now some clubs can be useful, such as some of the honor societies or that one club that goes into the community every week, but the vast majority are premed "leaders" mill. Some of the most intelligent and mature students in undergrad are not even members and are revolted by all the premed conundrum. There are also a lot of premeds who become "leaders" and drive an already useless organization into the ground. Frankly, these are wasting much needed university resources. Maybe I'll start a club that keeps track of all the other clubs. Now that would be a good idea. Maybe not.

I agree. That's the very point of interviews, to determine what is application-fluffing fodder and what is real. I used to think the way you do; that people who jump at leadership positions are automatically self-serving tools. But once I got involved at higher levels (e.g. student government committee- level myself) I realized that not everyone is that way and it truly does take dedication and commitment to put up with doing all the work. It is not fair to label all pre-meds as 'leadership mill' seekers.

Obviously there are intelligent and mature students who are neither pre-med or leadership seekers. Their revulsion is often well justified, but if they don't get into future schooling/job of their choice then they've no one to blame but themselves for not becoming involved. It's far too easy to criticize the people who seek leadership positions; it's rather difficult to go in and do a better job though.

 

[Lukkie]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a topic on this board asking if they should put their WoW experience as leadership experience. It made me sad.

yeah that guy must have been a real nut job.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=537956

 

[Tin Man]

Doesn't look like the one I saw.

Unfortunately.