Learning the Game of Ross MD

[hmania]

So a little about me if you haven't read my other thread. I am done with my 4 semesters on the island of Dominica and now studying for Step 1. From what I learn, those people who master the "game" of studying... were the winners in the end.

I just wanted to open a thread to share my experiences of the island, how to ACTUALLY study for exams, and to the readers to share some of their techniques that have worked. This way... we can all grow together.

Take this thread with a grain of salt and if it works than great... if not, suggest a better way!

OVERALL: Early on in the game, I found myself distracted by phone, FB, friends, and getting hungry. So I thought that sitting with my friends table in the fishbowl will be the best thing for me. Wrong!!!! Then, I moved to Jenner... too far!!! Wrong again. Sat on the subway deck to enjoy the breeze and fresh air ...Super wrong because I would daydream. Large learning lab... wrong... too many people talking. C5,c6,c4... nope hated the seats and had to get out of the room when there's class. New building... too much competition just for seats. C1 (BINGO!) you can squat because there's no class, its quiet, on campus, and everyone has a "space".

- When studying, I have learned to turn off my laptop (or turn off wifi) and put away my phone. Don't eat too much chinese food and to drink lots of water.

- Managing studying: before each exam, I would go through the calender and make myself a checklist by the week. By the exam time, each powerpoint/lecture should have the minimum of 5 check marks. Earn a check mark by going through the lecture with 100% attention. Most importantly, QUESTIONS (which is another category in the checklist)!

Questions: CTL questions-time,CTL questions pdf, CTL workshops (designed to kill your ego... but you need it to keep studying. Don't worry, questions on actual exam aren't as bad), online question bank from the school (forgot the name), Questions given by the professor. (you should earn at least 2 checkmarks by exam time).

Notes: People have many different ways to study and many argue that making your own note is valuable and worth learning. However, from my experience... you waste more time to make it vs. time to review it. If you like notes, there will be PLENTY of resources handed to you from upper semesters. Use those... they have been condensed and all you have to do is add to it and memorize. Personally, study charts were my favorite. *** Never Pay $ for notes/resources (during my stay on the island, an upper semester was selling his "premium/guaranteed passing" notes to firsties).

Schedule: 1st/2nd semester (mediasite from 9-1 on non lab day, but on lab day- go to class).
3rd/4th semester (split into 2 days)
** take notes on ipad on the slides (iannotate, notability)

After mediasiting, go through the lectures (ie... reciting it, blank sheet of paper and write it out, teaching another) that you have watched... and take your time. (one check mark). Yeah sometimes, the slides are just too long and you don't get through all of them, but you need to push yourself as far as you can. Next day, repeat... if you have time.. than go back to day 1. So some topics (biochem, anatomy...) require a lot of time, but behavioral (spend as little time as you need, but get the point).

-The more times you go through the slides, the faster it will be for you to explain what is on that slide and why it is important and how it is connecting with each other. You just scroll through the slide with your fingers and it should be quick by the time you get to 5th check mark)


So by the topic (my goal is to type out 1 topic a day):
Anatomy: wow, I have to say that this was the most draining of all the topics because of lab time. You smell like formaldehyde and you feel hungry the moment you step into lab. You hope for a group that is on top of their game and by the end of the semester... it becomes a boring task.

Here's my tip:
1. Black scrubs- Use them. Ask them for help when needed. Go to their study hall hours. There is one Dr. Douglass and she is awesome!
2. Do the questions that are given in lab each week either before or after your lab time. I always went to lab on Sunday morning which is less crowded. Don't go to the lab 1 or 2 days before practical (crowded because of last minute study-ers) and plus... people will be doubting and questioning themselves which will affect your mojo.
3. When you go to mocktical, the questions are made for you to think and not always representative of the real practical. The lovely student TA's try their best to make a point and to make it harder than normal.... so you can get a kick in the butt to study more. For exam purposes, if you study the materials emphasized in the lectures than ID'ing the structure/clinical features should not be a big deal.
4. Find a partner or group to go to lab with. Its hard to do this because people are flaky and will say yes and abruptly switch to "no" once the exam comes. Find a hard and focused group (2-3) and stick to them.
5. Clinical correlates- have them locked in your head once you learn them. All relevant for STEP 1.
6.Be able to draw out anastamosis...
7. Do questions from the online question bank! Tons of anatomy questions
8. Use your step book! I regret not doing this and once I saw the High Yield (HY) stuff written in the book... would have made life a lot easier.

Biochem:
1. BRS Biochem and Step book are a must. If you don't have time to read, DIT videos.
2. Taught by Meisenburg, awesome/smart/humble fellow whose accent and pace of words might be daunting, but you will get use to it if you mediasite.
3. He questions are straight forward from his lecture.
4. Learn the pathways and how they form the BIG Picture. Its hard to do because you have many lectures to worry about, but trust me... you understand the original/normal picture... its better later when an enzyme is missing or mutation happens.
5. If there is a table about enzymes or a pathway that is significant in the lecture.... DRAW IT OUT. Questions obviously come from here.

Genetics:
1. So most of the time its Larson who teaches this subject.... not very clear explanation and questions are worded in an ambiguous way.
2. Genetics will always be the same genetics you have previously learned... hardy-weinberg, allelic frequence... etc. So understand the basics
3. Whats different? You categorize and MEMORIZE the genetic inheritance of each disease known to man. So for instance.... achrondroplasia... auto dom... so whats the percentage that a father who has achondroplasia with a normal mother would have a child with the condition?
4. If you struggle in this... refer to biochem portion of step book. Great mneumonics. If you have a hard time with the calculations.... questions.

Biostats:
This subject is not difficult at all. However, the professors at Ross have not done a good job at presenting the material. Hence the low score results that come back for that particular section (as was told on multiple occasions during my studies there). I would highly recommend First Aid, DIT videos, and any other source for this subject.

Behavioral:
Normally, its common sense.... However it is quite tricky for those who lack this sense (me). The professors teaching this subject ask straight forward questions. They will emphasize which slide to look at and the concept that is important... don't stress on it too much... but its free gimme points on the exam you can't afford to miss.

Physiology:
Here's the meat of your learning experience. It starts at the end of 1st semester. You need to make sure you learn this part. I regret not learning it and putting it off with the mentality (ill learn it for step)... wrong. If you don't know the normal... than the abnormal will be a mess.
BRS Physio, DIT videos, and FA. It is taught by organ system and some professors are good and others are horrible.

Pathology:
BUY a subscription to PATHOMA (this is a miracle book). Listen to Goljan Audio (if you have the time). Before each section: I would listen at 2x Pathoma and take notes in my book... He breaks it down little by little. Most importantly he incorporates the drugs, physiology, and anatomy. This is a must! I also did questions given by professors in Robbins Pathology... expect those types of questions in the exam (at ross and on step 1).

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[cassis_Cake]

Thanks for the tips! Will definitely try it when I start school this summer.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

The real question is, "was it worth it?" or would you have reapplied DO and stayed in the states? Would you go to the Caribbean all over again just based on your first 2 years?

 

[Sardinia]

The real question is, "was it worth it?" or would you have reapplied DO and stayed in the states? Would you go to the Caribbean all over again just based on your first 2 years?

You are a cruel person.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

It's a legit question. I have various friends and family at the Carib that tell me they regret it. I appreciate other people's views on this topic, especially ones who are going through it and can offer their own experience.

Get your head out of your ass.

 

[DrDarce]

The real question is, "was it worth it?" or would you have reapplied DO and stayed in the states? Would you go to the Caribbean all over again just based on your first 2 years?

It's probably hard to tell if the hard work is worth it right now. If OP goes on and matches, the answer is probably hell yeah it's worth it.

 

[muqalia]

The real question is, "was it worth it?" or would you have reapplied DO and stayed in the states? Would you go to the Caribbean all over again just based on your first 2 years?

9 years later (4 years of ross, 3 years residency, 1.5 year in practice), yes it was.

hmania- thank you again as always. We are all hoping you do great on step 1

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

9 years later (4 years of ross, 3 years residency, 1.5 year in practice), yes it was.

hmania- thank you again as always. We are all hoping you do great on step 1

So would you advise students today to head to the carib without any hesitation? Would you do it over again? or would you have gone DO or reapplied to MD programs after upping your GPA or retaking your mcat for a better score?

Congrats on your journey. A majority of the the attendings that I know who went to carib and matched advised to try to stay here in the states anyway possible...

 

[muqalia]

So would you advise students today to head to the carib without any hesitation? Would you do it over again? or would you have gone DO or reapplied to MD programs after upping your GPA or retaking your mcat for a better score?

Congrats on your journey. A majority of the the attendings that I know who went to carib and matched advised to try to stay here in the states anyway possible...

Thank you,
I would have done everything possible to try to get into a US school. After going through it all, the Caribbean pathway is definitely for people like me who couldn't get into a US school. So yes when you know for certain that a MD or DO school in the US is out of your reach AND you know you are capable, then apply to foreign schools.

 

[IslandStyle808]

So would you advise students today to head to the carib without any hesitation? Would you do it over again? or would you have gone DO or reapplied to MD programs after upping your GPA or retaking your mcat for a better score?

Congrats on your journey. A majority of the the attendings that I know who went to carib and matched advised to try to stay here in the states anyway possible...

Actually matching into the caribbean was worse back then than it is now. However, check the NRMP reports, going DO was still the better option even in the 1970s. The differences in matching weren't that profound as now (around a 10% higher match rate for DOs back then, versus the near 25% higher rate), but you have to remember that DOs were less in number and thus more could match into osteopathic residencies. So overall matching was higher.

And going DO isn't all sunshine and rainbows either. Once you go this route you are also filtered out of top tier programs and have a much harder time matching into extremely competitive residencies. Don't be surprise when you hear even DOs regretting their pathway also.

 

[deleted731525]

Actually matching into the caribbean was worse back then than it is now. However, check the NRMP reports, going DO was still the better option even in the 1970s. The differences in matching weren't that profound as now (around a 10% higher match rate for DOs back then, versus the near 25% higher rate), but you have to remember that DOs were less in number and thus more could match into osteopathic residencies. So overall matching was higher.

And going DO isn't all sunshine and rainbows either. Once you go this route you are also filtered out of top tier programs and have a much harder time matching into extremely competitive residencies. Don't be surprise when you hear even DOs regretting their pathway also.

This is a good point. A lot of what you hear on the DO vs Caribbean debate on this forum is just people repeating "the conventional wisdom" without actually looking at the data. Another thing to consider is the reason that DO has been a safer bet. The main reason is because DOs have had their own separate match that acts as a safety net for the weaker students. If you compare first-time SGU applicants to DO in the allopathic match I dont think there would be a great difference between the two in terms of % matched(DOs would probably do better in specialties though). Now this is important because the GME is merging and in 2020 there probably wont be that safety net. That helps the better DO students(they no longer have to decide whether to do the DO match or gamble on the allopathic) but it hurts the lower students who will see more competition for the previous safety spots. And I say this as someone hoping to get into a DO school.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Actually matching into the caribbean was worse back then than it is now. However, check the NRMP reports, going DO was still the better option even in the 1970s. The differences in matching weren't that profound as now (around a 10% higher match rate for DOs back then, versus the near 25% higher rate), but you have to remember that DOs were less in number and thus more could match into osteopathic residencies. So overall matching was higher.

And going DO isn't all sunshine and rainbows either. Once you go this route you are also filtered out of top tier programs and have a much harder time matching into extremely competitive residencies. Don't be surprise when you hear even DOs regretting their pathway also.

Totally agree, but with DO, you still aren't locked into just FM, IM, or Psych. You do have other specialties such as PMR, EM, Neuro, Rads, and so on. There was even a neurological surgery spot from AT STILL to Loma Linda. Take a look at match lists from many DO programs and many of them do have a bulk of folks heading into IM or FM, but with a class size of like 1/6 of those compared to the Carib and with many schools having 100% residency placement. I'd still say that DO is sunshine and rainbows compared to the thunderstorms and rain that Carib offers by having you be at the top of your class... get USMLE scores that are higher than your cohorts here in the states... to get into residencies after applying to more than 150 of them (personally know a few folks that did exactly this) that may not be your first choice and in a location that may not suit you but you have no choice. Hence why many IMGs end up in New york and the tristate area or in rural areas that just aren't for some people.

It's like being executed.

With DO, you can pull your own trigger and get to go out your own way most of the time... but ur still gonna go.

With Carib, you are being put at the gauntlet, and are having some gargantuan barbarian take ur head off. It's gonna be quick and you are mercy to the barbarian.

That was a bad analogy i'm sure lololol

 

[IslandStyle808]

Totally agree, but with DO, you still aren't locked into just FM, IM, or Psych. You do have other specialties such as PMR, EM, Neuro, Rads, and so on. There was even a neurological surgery spot from AT STILL to Loma Linda. Take a look at match lists from many DO programs and many of them do have a bulk of folks heading into IM or FM, but with a class size of like 1/6 of those compared to the Carib and with many schools having 100% residency placement. I'd still say that DO is sunshine and rainbows compared to the thunderstorms and rain that Carib offers by having you be at the top of your class... get USMLE scores that are higher than your cohorts here in the states... to get into residencies after applying to more than 150 of them (personally know a few folks that did exactly this) that may not be your first choice and in a location that may not suit you but you have no choice. Hence why many IMGs end up in New york and the tristate area or in rural areas that just aren't for some people.

It's like being executed.

With DO, you can pull your own trigger and get to go out .your own way most of the time... but ur still gonna go.

With Carib, you are being put at the gauntlet, and are having some gargantuan barbarian take ur head off. It's gonna be quick and you are mercy to the barbarian.

That was a bad analogy i' sure lololol

Agree with all points.

 

[IslandStyle808]

This is a good point. A lot of what you hear on the DO vs Caribbean debate on this forum is just people repeating "the conventional wisdom" without actually looking at the data. Another thing to consider is the reason that DO has been a safer bet. The main reason is because DOs have had their own separate match that acts as a safety net for the weaker students. If you compare first-time SGU applicants to DO in the allopathic match I dont think there would be a great difference between the two in terms of % matched(DOs would probably do better in specialties though). Now this is important because the GME is merging and in 2020 there probably wont be that safety net. That helps the better DO students(they no longer have to decide whether to do the DO match or gamble on the allopathic) but it hurts the lower students who will see more competition for the previous safety spots. And I say this as someone hoping to get into a DO school.

Agree on all points.

 

[UBC2014]

If you end up being the below average student in your class as a DO - you probably don't have to sweat it to match ACGME primary care and will have many options.

IMG with a 200 step 1? probably sweating at the handful of interviews you get at not so desirable programs.

 

[bedevilled ben]

If you end up being the below average student in your class as a DO - you probably don't have to sweat it to match ACGME primary care and will have many options.

IMG with a 200 step 1? probably sweating at the handful of interviews you get at not so desirable programs.

IMGs with good scores from good schools are still sweating, trust me. The Match is psychological torture for IMGs in a way that USMD/DO's will never understand.

 

[Sardinia]

@DetectiveAlonzo "It's a legit question." --> "It's like being executed."

@DetectiveAlonzo "Get your head out of your ass."

You are a cruel person.

 

[UBC2014]

IMGs with good scores from good schools are still sweating, trust me. The Match is psychological torture for IMGs in a way that USMD/DO's will never understand.

Not to mention Canadian IMGs this year have had statistically less interviews than last year due to the SON health Canada limitations and perceptions by PDs that they would rank the Canadian IMGs but then they wouldnt get a visa etc. Either that, or the ones who I have talked too have over-played how good of an applicant they are...and/or lied about their stats to seem more average.

Canadians at USMD/USDOs felt no different and had plenty of interviews, no different than the upper years before them. Getting 2-3x as many interviews as the above mentioned.

Is it fair? No, but that's how it is.

 

[lucamicci]

Hello everyone! I have been reading through all of these forums concerning Ross for some time now and truly appreciate all the time you guys have taken to answer so many concerns I had about attending this Medical School. I am interviewing this March for a spot in the September 2016 class and just had a couple of questions I could not find anywhere else. I would appreciate any help !
1- What is the difference between the 4th and 5th semester curriculum ( weekly schedule? what is meant by integrated study breaks?)?
2- What are the chances of doing single track hospital clinical rotations? More specifically, in south florida.
3-Do the single track rotations start at a specific time of the year or could I start soon after submitting my step 1 scores? For example if I finish in May, take some time to study and then have my scores submitted to Ross by let say September, would I be able to start at a single track hospital soon after(November, December, or January possibly)?
4-How does scheduling work for clinical rotations in terms of time in between them? Is there times were you have to wait a month or so to start another rotation?
5- Do you start the residency application process a year before graduation like in US schools and then, if you match, start after graduation. I read somewhere that since it is an international medical school you have to wait until you graduate to start the application process, therefore having a year in between graduating and starting residency.

 

[W19]

IMGs with good scores from good schools are still sweating, trust me. The Match is psychological torture for IMGs in a way that USMD/DO's will never understand.

Is that for competitive specialties? I would think that someone with 220+ step1 with no red flags should have a good chance matching into some type of primary care somewhere...

 

[bedevilled ben]

Is that for competitive specialties? I would think that someone with 220+ step1 with no red flags should have a good chance matching into some type of primary care somewhere...

Pretty much need >230 as an IMG to Match into anything but FM at this point. Even then there's no guarantee.

 

[W19]

Pretty much need >230 as an IMG to Match into anything but FM at this point. Even then there's no guarantee.

That is scary!

 

[hmania]

Caribbean or US-DO... I would have chosen DO if I was given a chance. Caribbean school such as Ross is alot tougher than it was last year. This semester students must get 60% above each discipline (biochem, anatomy.... ) and also must pass the MPS (which last semester was 67 for the exiting 4th semesters). When I first arrived at Ross 4 semesters ago, the MPS to pass was 63/64. So if I knew what the grading scale was now, I would think 5x before going into the route.

So with that being said, anyone who has gone through this route may comment on how to best study in each topic (Ill update the OP with your method)

 

[the argus]

Pretty much need >230 as an IMG to Match into anything but FM at this point. Even then there's no guarantee.

You're joking, right? This isn't even remotely true.

 

[bedevilled ben]

You're joking, right? This isn't even remotely true.

I knew this was going to generate controversy if I didn't put a thousand qualifiers on it. Guess we'll find out in 2 weeks. Only "data" I have is anecdotal from friends/PDs and the numbers supplied by the career guidance folks from the school. The most recent NRMP data for IMGs and FMGs are from 2013.

 

[Xorthos]

The real question is, "was it worth it?" or would you have reapplied DO and stayed in the states? Would you go to the Caribbean all over again just based on your first 2 years?

As a Ross student who is Matching this year, I'll say my experience at Ross was well worth it. I have multiple friends who got 15+ interviews in Pathology, Radiology, Emergency Medicine, OBGYN, and other "Competitive specialties". None of them are concerned about matching. I personally wanted to do Family Medicine, and got offered like 36 interviews out of 61 applications. I canceled down to 17 interviews. No concerns here about matching, just waiting to find out where I'm going to end up.

 

[Xorthos]

I knew this was going to generate controversy if I didn't put a thousand qualifiers on it. Guess we'll find out in 2 weeks. Only "data" I have is anecdotal from friends/PDs and the numbers supplied by the career guidance folks from the school. The most recent NRMP data for IMGs and FMGs are from 2013.

This is straight from the 2015 NRMP pdf file for match statistics. (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf) Copy and pasted from page 18. (26/120 on the pdf)


93.9 percent of U.S. allopathic seniors matched to PGY-1 positions in 2015, within the historical 92-95 percent match rate.

53.1 percent of U.S. IMGs matched to PGY-1 positions, the highest match rate since 2005.

At 49.4 percent, the 2015 PGY-1 match rate for non-U.S. IMGs was one of the highest since 2005.


What you have to factor into this is that they receive 2000-2500 applications, and a large amount of them are from FMG/IMG's who graduated over the past 10 years with barely passing step scores, and have sadly failed to match every year. These statistics don't really factor in repeat applicants. I know Ross' and SGU's Match rates are around 88%, which isn't too far off from US Allopathic schools.

There has been this huge stigma that the US IMG match rate is going down, but it simply isn't true.

 

[Baller MD]

What you have to factor into this is that they receive 2000-2500 applications, and a large amount of them are from FMG/IMG's who graduated over the past 10 years with barely passing step scores, and have sadly failed to match every year. These statistics don't really factor in repeat applicants. I know Ross' and SGU's Match rates are around 88%, which isn't too far off from US Allopathic schools.

How do you know this?

 

[the argus]

How do you know this?

Because the mean time since graduation for the unmatched cohort of US-IMGs is ~6 years.

 

[Xorthos]

Because the mean time since graduation for the unmatched cohort of US-IMGs is ~6 years.

And because one program coordinator told me at lunch how many applications they had, and how about 1800 of them were people who graduated 5-10 years ago with bad scores, and sadly might never match.

 

[Xorthos]

How do you know this?

Read above posts. As for the Ross statistics, they release match data as well. I could link their figures page, but people will call it "propaganda" anyways, so I won't make the effort.

 

[Sardinia]

@Xorthos How big was your graduating class and what % of your class was able to find a residency in the first year?

 

[Xorthos]

@Xorthos How big was your graduating class and what % of your class was able to find a residency in the first year?

I'll let you know when the stats for this year come out. Last year 88% of graduating Ross students matched in the first year.

 

[gyngyn]

I'll let you know when the stats for this year come out. Last year 88% of graduating Ross students matched in the first year.

How many students started in the first year class?
How many took USMLE?
How many matched in the main match?
How many SOAPed successfully? Unsuccessfully? To surg prelim with/without a categorical?

 

[Xorthos]

How many students started in the first year class?
How many took USMLE?
How many matched in the main match?
How many SOAPed successfully? Unsuccessfully? To surg prelim with/without a categorical?

Is there a point to this ridiculous interrogation? I'm hoping you're joking around and/or trolling.

 

[Goro]

He's not trolling. There's a reason we call the Carib schools "diploma mills". Huge attrition rates, and that match rates such as they are predominantly in preliminaries, forcing people to go either back into the match or end up never matching at all.

You're one of the Lotto winners. if any US school had match rates similar to Ross (like below) or any other Carib school they'd be shut down by the LCME or COCA., and sued.

The blow in bold in nothing to crow about. And with the ACGME/AOA merger, IMGs will be getting further shut out of the match process. That bus is coming.


53.1 percent of U.S. IMGs matched to PGY-1 positions, the highest match rate since 2005.

At 49.4 percent, the 2015 PGY-1 match rate for non-U.S. IMGs was one of the highest since 2005.

Is there a point to this ridiculous interrogation? I'm hoping you're joking around and/or trolling.

 

[the argus]

He's not trolling. There's a reason we call the Carib schools "diploma mills". Huge attrition rates, and that match rates such as they are predominantly in preliminaries, forcing people to go either back into the match or end up never matching at all.

You're one of the Lotto winners. if any US school had match rates similar to Ross (like below) or any other Carib school they'd be shut down by the LCME or COCA., and sued.

The blow in bold in nothing to crow about. And with the ACGME/AOA merger, IMGs will be getting further shut out of the match process. That bus is coming.


53.1 percent of U.S. IMGs matched to PGY-1 positions, the highest match rate since 2005.

At 49.4 percent, the 2015 PGY-1 match rate for non-U.S. IMGs was one of the highest since 2005.

It's like you think if you keep repeating this nonsense that it will magically somehow become true.

Matches from Ross/SGU are not predominantly in prelim positions. You're just flat out lying here.

Quoting those match rates like that is completely misrepresenting what they actually represent. And the upcoming merger will have little to no effect on the number of IMGs matching. Increasing US enrollment might eventually, but that has nothing to do with the merger. You keep saying this about the merger, but have never actually explained why that would be the case. I think that's because it's complete nonsense, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

 

[gyngyn]

Is there a point to this ridiculous interrogation? I'm hoping you're joking around and/or trolling.

I'm dead serious. There is no way to interpret "88% match" without these data points.
We are required to report all these things to the LCME (and so much more).
As Ross does not, I am hoping that you will.

 

[the argus]

I'm dead serious.
We are required to report all these things to the LCME (and so much more).
As Ross does not, I am hoping that you will.

I've given you the answers to most of those questions. It's just that the amswers don't fit your bull**** narrative, so you disregard them.

 

[gyngyn]

I've given you the answers to most of those questions. It's just that the amswers don't fit your bull**** narrative, so you disregard them.

There is no reason for incivility.
Let's see if your stats agree with @Xorthos. Since we have no other method of corroboration, I think that is fair. Applicants need to know these things to make an informed decision.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Well at least the 2014 report by AUC was rather upfront about their matching.

http://aucmed.edu/AUC/media/PDF/residency/Residency-Match-2014.pdf

Can't say the same for 2015 though...

 

[the argus]

There is no reason for incivility.
Let's see if your stats agree with @Xorthos. Since we have no other method of corroboration, I think that is fair. Applicants need to know these things to make an informed decision.

Wasn't trying to be rude, was using the term "bull****" as described by Harry Frankfurt. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bull****

 

[Mad Jack]

This is straight from the 2015 NRMP pdf file for match statistics. (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf) Copy and pasted from page 18. (26/120 on the pdf)


93.9 percent of U.S. allopathic seniors matched to PGY-1 positions in 2015, within the historical 92-95 percent match rate.

53.1 percent of U.S. IMGs matched to PGY-1 positions, the highest match rate since 2005.

At 49.4 percent, the 2015 PGY-1 match rate for non-U.S. IMGs was one of the highest since 2005.


What you have to factor into this is that they receive 2000-2500 applications, and a large amount of them are from FMG/IMG's who graduated over the past 10 years with barely passing step scores, and have sadly failed to match every year. These statistics don't really factor in repeat applicants. I know Ross' and SGU's Match rates are around 88%, which isn't too far off from US Allopathic schools.

There has been this huge stigma that the US IMG match rate is going down, but it simply isn't true.

This is sort of warped by the all-in policy, which banned prematches as of two years ago, coupled with 1,500 primary care residency positions created by Obamacare that have zero funding in 2018. They forced over 3,000 more positions into the NRMP match, so of course there's going to be more matches, and then we got hit with a massive temporary increase in positions, it's really an apples to oranges percentage comparison. Look at the percentage increase in positions between before the all-in policy went into effect and today- most of those positions went to IMGs previously, yet their inclusion barely bumped up match numbers for IMGs- to me that says many of the training spots that traditionally went to IMGs are going to US grads.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well at least the 2014 report by AUC was rather upfront about their matching.

http://aucmed.edu/AUC/media/PDF/residency/Residency-Match-2014.pdf

Can't say the same for 2015 though...

82.7% matched, of which over 10% were prelims, and over 60% of people matched their fourth choice or greater... Sounds like a paradise.

 

[the argus]

82.7% matched, of which over 10% were prelims, and over 60% of people matched their fourth choice or greater... Sounds like a paradise.

I'm continually impressed by your inability to do simple math and interpret simple charts.

20/211 of the matches were prelim/transitional, which is 9.5% (which is <10). And of those 20, 15 had advanced positions. So that comes out to 5/211 that were "dead-end," or ~2.5%.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your false narrative.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm continually impressed by your inability to do simple math and interpret simple charts.

20/211 of the matches were prelim/transitional, which is 9.5% (which is <10). And of those 20, 15 had advanced positions. So that comes out to 5/211 that were "dead-end," or ~2.5%.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your false narrative.

Maybe I'm just doing it to grind your gears

Really though, I just skimmed the data. Fine, 82ish% match rate, totally fantastic

 

[Xorthos]

Here's a list of every individual that matched last year from Ross. Out of approximately 900 graduates throughout the year. (I don't have a list, so don't ask) http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/2015residencyappointments.cfm

49 out of 830 were preliminary positions. That's 5.9% for those of you who don't want to do the math. But it's quite far from "predominantly" as @Goro liked to claim.

I don't know how many of these were second time applications.

At the end of the day, I matched into a residency and I'm in the same shoes you guys are in, regardless of the route I chose to take. You can rip at caribbean schools all you want, but you're no better than I am, so never presume as much.

 

[the argus]

Maybe I'm just doing it to grind your gears

Really though, I just skimmed the data. Fine, 82ish% match rate, totally fantastic

Again, I've never argued that match results from the Caribbean are "fantastic," and I repeatedly say to exhaust all US options before going to the Caribbean.

It's the misrepresentation/misinterpretation of the match data that grinds my gears. I don't understand why you guys can't just be realistic about the situation, instead of this seemingly carnal urge to make things out to be worse than they really are.

 

[Mad Jack]

Again, I've never argued that match results from the Caribbean are "fantastic," and I repeatedly say to exhaust all US options before going to the Caribbean.

It's the misrepresentation/misinterpretation of the match data that grinds my gears. I don't understand why you guys can't just be realistic about the situation, instead of this seemingly carnal urge to make things out to be worse than they really are.

Because people see the numbers today and they're like, "Oh, match rate is 82%!" and assume that's the match they'll be dealing with in four years. I like to look for worst-case scenario data in any situation, and would like to be provided with such in the event of my spending 300-400k on an education.

 

[Xorthos]

Again, I've never argued that match results from the Caribbean are "fantastic," and I repeatedly say to exhaust all US options before going to the Caribbean.

It's the misrepresentation/misinterpretation of the match data that grinds my gears. I don't understand why you guys can't just be realistic about the situation, instead of this seemingly carnal urge to make things out to be worse than they really are.

Exactly....nobody here is saying that Ross or AUC or any Caribbean school is optimal to US schools. But at the end of the day, if all other options are exhausted, at least they give people a shot. There are a lot of great potential physicians out there who just couldn't make the cut for some reason or another when applying to US schools. But then when given the chance, they do very well.

Ross has a high attrition rate because they actually give people a chance, even those who probably shouldn't deserve it. And yes, they are for profit, and have no problem taking your money for that chance. But I personally think the people who make it through the gauntlet of going to a big 4 Caribbean school, are actually very well prepared when it comes to taking steps and to residency.