Leaving dental school for another healthcare career

[Candace1633]

I know this is a long shot but is there anyone here who had to leave dental school because of poor handskills? I was just dismissed from dental school after failling my 2nd year and am considering medicine because the handskills were my major problem. Any advice?

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[Silent Cool]

I know this is a long shot but is there anyone here who had to leave dental school because of poor handskills? I was just dismissed from dental school after failling my 2nd year and am considering medicine because the handskills were my major problem. Any advice?

Would you mind telling us what school kicked you out?

There was another poster on here in your situation. If you do a search, you should find the thread about it.

 

[yappy]

Whoa, at what point in the curriculum did you know you were having trouble?

 

[Candace1633]

Whoa, at what point in the curriculum did you know you were having trouble?

I don't mind explaining why. It was a pretty ****ty situation all around. I don't know if it's like this at other schools or not. Every year a few people fail and have to repeat and on extreme cases, they are dismissed. I attended the UT health science center in San Antonio. Mind you, it's top 5 in the nation but it was the only school I got into.

Freshman year all we did was waxing. Didn't start operative or fixed pros or other pros classes until 2nd year. We had a handskills rotation but it wasnt enough for me. I struggled during the first semester and was a history major in college, so I felt like I was behind in my handwork and science. I was able to get through 1st year just fine.

2nd year was a different story. I passed all my didactic courses but I failed fixed pros and operative. This was certainly not for lack of trying. I started to realize that I'm much more cerebral than I am mechanical. I've never been able to draw well or do much with my hands (I played flute and piano but that's it). I have struggled with applying the concepts of dentistry to the physical world (ie cutting crowns correctly, knowing how to fix problems, etc)

I exhausted all tutoring resources until about march, when I was no longer allowed to receive individual tutoring because I had "gotten too much and other people needed help"...damned I I do damned if I don't. I had made some real strides with my handskills but I still just wasnt there yet in terms of going to clinic as a 3rd year. I have beat myself up over this a lot during the last year but there is nothing else I could have done.

DS2 at UTHSCSA is something like 54 credits? I failed about 7 total (the worth of fixed and operative together) and passed all the other lab courses. A committee o about 6 faculty voted for my dismissal without giving me a chance to repeat the year. I appealed that decision by saying I have a slight hand tremor that was being treated with propranolol. To be honest, the tremor was almost unnoticeable but I was grasping at straws for a way back in. The dismissal was sustained and the only way I can return is in July of 2014 as a 2nd year. I went from being in the class of 2015 to being on the class of 2017 at the earliest. I'm just not sure I can do it to myself anymore.

Anyway, I never felt like I was excelling though. Everyone talks about the learning curve and how it takes most people longer to get there. I felt like I was waiting all year and couldn't really get to where I needed to be. I've heard that UTHCSA has very harsh grading criteria compared to other schools (0.25 mm off is where deductions begin in operative). I'm not sure what the answer is.

I apologize if I'm scaring the **** out of anybody right now. I just wanted to tell my story and share my experience in dental school. There is no way to know unless you try and that's what I did. I didn't think it would be so difficult for me but I was wrong.

Anyway, I did see that other thread but didnt see too much follow up and so wanted to hit up this forum as well. Id be happy to answer any other questions as well.

 

[Nes]

I am sorry to hear your story. All is not lost yet.Next July is around the corner if you still want to be a dentist. Dental school was not fun for me and I just made It with grace of God. Do not burn bridges yet. Take time to think about your future and if you decide to stick with dentistry I will advice you to volunteer in a dental lab and see if you can gain confidence. My prayers are with you and I pray you stay positive. Just know everything happens for a reason..

 

[Silent Cool]

I don't mind explaining why. It was a pretty ****ty situation all around. I don't know if it's like this at other schools or not. Every year a few people fail and have to repeat and on extreme cases, they are dismissed. I attended the UT health science center in San Antonio. Mind you, it's top 5 in the nation but it was the only school I got into.

Freshman year all we did was waxing. Didn't start operative or fixed pros or other pros classes until 2nd year. We had a handskills rotation but it wasnt enough for me. I struggled during the first semester and was a history major in college, so I felt like I was behind in my handwork and science. I was able to get through 1st year just fine.

2nd year was a different story. I passed all my didactic courses but I failed fixed pros and operative. This was certainly not for lack of trying. I started to realize that I'm much more cerebral than I am mechanical. I've never been able to draw well or do much with my hands (I played flute and piano but that's it). I have struggled with applying the concepts of dentistry to the physical world (ie cutting crowns correctly, knowing how to fix problems, etc)

I exhausted all tutoring resources until about march, when I was no longer allowed to receive individual tutoring because I had "gotten too much and other people needed help"...damned I I do damned if I don't. I had made some real strides with my handskills but I still just wasnt there yet in terms of going to clinic as a 3rd year. I have beat myself up over this a lot during the last year but there is nothing else I could have done.

DS2 at UTHSCSA is something like 54 credits? I failed about 7 total (the worth of fixed and operative together) and passed all the other lab courses. A committee o about 6 faculty voted for my dismissal without giving me a chance to repeat the year. I appealed that decision by saying I have a slight hand tremor that was being treated with propranolol. To be honest, the tremor was almost unnoticeable but I was grasping at straws for a way back in. The dismissal was sustained and the only way I can return is in July of 2014 as a 2nd year. I went from being in the class of 2015 to being on the class of 2017 at the earliest. I'm just not sure I can do it to myself anymore.

Anyway, I never felt like I was excelling though. Everyone talks about the learning curve and how it takes most people longer to get there. I felt like I was waiting all year and couldn't really get to where I needed to be. I've heard that UTHCSA has very harsh grading criteria compared to other schools (0.25 mm off is where deductions begin in operative). I'm not sure what the answer is.

I apologize if I'm scaring the **** out of anybody right now. I just wanted to tell my story and share my experience in dental school. There is no way to know unless you try and that's what I did. I didn't think it would be so difficult for me but I was wrong.

Anyway, I did see that other thread but didnt see too much follow up and so wanted to hit up this forum as well. Id be happy to answer any other questions as well.

I recall hearing on another thread some bad things about that same school (I think--It was definitely a school in Texas). Basically the poster said that a number of people had to repeat third year or something. Sounds like a malignant administration.

 

[yappy]

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry to hear that.

If you're interested in medicine, and don't feel like messing around, I would suggest that you look into DO schools as they're more open to non-traditional students and don't have as high of GPA and MCAT averages.

I knew someone who got to third year, successfully, but then just decided dentistry was not for them and took a year off and applied for pharmacy school. I volunteered with this person and they were successful in gaining admission. I think what made her successful in her transition was spending plenty of time with pharmacists and coming up with a logical reason why dentistry wasn't for her. It worked out well for her in the end - I imagine it can for you too. GL.

I don't mind explaining why. It was a pretty ****ty situation all around. I don't know if it's like this at other schools or not. Every year a few people fail and have to repeat and on extreme cases, they are dismissed. I attended the UT health science center in San Antonio. Mind you, it's top 5 in the nation but it was the only school I got into.

Freshman year all we did was waxing. Didn't start operative or fixed pros or other pros classes until 2nd year. We had a handskills rotation but it wasnt enough for me. I struggled during the first semester and was a history major in college, so I felt like I was behind in my handwork and science. I was able to get through 1st year just fine.

2nd year was a different story. I passed all my didactic courses but I failed fixed pros and operative. This was certainly not for lack of trying. I started to realize that I'm much more cerebral than I am mechanical. I've never been able to draw well or do much with my hands (I played flute and piano but that's it). I have struggled with applying the concepts of dentistry to the physical world (ie cutting crowns correctly, knowing how to fix problems, etc)

I exhausted all tutoring resources until about march, when I was no longer allowed to receive individual tutoring because I had "gotten too much and other people needed help"...damned I I do damned if I don't. I had made some real strides with my handskills but I still just wasnt there yet in terms of going to clinic as a 3rd year. I have beat myself up over this a lot during the last year but there is nothing else I could have done.

DS2 at UTHSCSA is something like 54 credits? I failed about 7 total (the worth of fixed and operative together) and passed all the other lab courses. A committee o about 6 faculty voted for my dismissal without giving me a chance to repeat the year. I appealed that decision by saying I have a slight hand tremor that was being treated with propranolol. To be honest, the tremor was almost unnoticeable but I was grasping at straws for a way back in. The dismissal was sustained and the only way I can return is in July of 2014 as a 2nd year. I went from being in the class of 2015 to being on the class of 2017 at the earliest. I'm just not sure I can do it to myself anymore.

Anyway, I never felt like I was excelling though. Everyone talks about the learning curve and how it takes most people longer to get there. I felt like I was waiting all year and couldn't really get to where I needed to be. I've heard that UTHCSA has very harsh grading criteria compared to other schools (0.25 mm off is where deductions begin in operative). I'm not sure what the answer is.

I apologize if I'm scaring the **** out of anybody right now. I just wanted to tell my story and share my experience in dental school. There is no way to know unless you try and that's what I did. I didn't think it would be so difficult for me but I was wrong.

Anyway, I did see that other thread but didnt see too much follow up and so wanted to hit up this forum as well. Id be happy to answer any other questions as well.

 

[Candace1633]

Yeah UTHSCSA has a rough reputation. Every year anywhere between 1-5 people have to repeat or are dismissed. Or have to wait and come back later, like I have to. IT blows. The main reason I don't want to do dentistry is the handskills. It is just too difficult for me. I worked very hard and although there was improvement, it was not up to the standards of a rising DS3. I am sad that I won't be a dentist but relieved that I don't have to live in fear.

The school did provide me with tutoring, etc but it was as if I wasn't getting good enough fast enough and they were done with me. I could see it on teacher's faces and saw it when the Academic performance committee dismissed me. I am not saying I deserved to go to third year, but I think when that many students are struggling and/or failing, something is wrong with the education system, not us.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It has been a rough 2 years and I'm not sure if I'm up to the emotional and mental abuse anymore. I also feel like I have a target on my head and am expected to do better than other students, I just don't feel like the handwork is in the cards for me....sigh.

The good news is I originally wanted to be a doctor, so maybe this is for the best. I have tons of shadowing under my belt and all the pre-reqs.

 

[InformMe123]

What kind of things can you suggest to students interested in dentistry to try and see if they have the potential for the hand dexterity required in dentistry? This is one of the things I am also most worried about dental school.

 

[TuckerT21]

Becoming a physician doesn't mean you don't need hand skills. If you go the medicine route, you really have no idea right now what residency you will get. Here are some procedures that requires some hand skills.

Cardiology - Catheters; a lot of cardiology procedures on done through caths
Gen Surgery - obvious
Orthopedic surgery - obvious
Plastic Surgery - obvious
Ophthalmology - a lot is done with lasers, but a good amount of procedures still require good hand skills
Anesthesiology - Tough incubations, different nerve blocks, etc...
-I have an first hand example of a girl at the top of her med school class getting into anesthesia residency and getting kicked out after year one because her hand skills were so poor

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of physicians who are strictly clinicians that don't do many procedures but you don't know right now what type of physician you will become.

My 2cents

 

[Candace1633]

Becoming a physician doesn't mean you don't need hand skills. If you go the medicine route, you really have no idea right now what residency you will get. Here are some procedures that requires some hand skills.

Cardiology - Catheters; a lot of cardiology procedures on done through caths
Gen Surgery - obvious
Orthopedic surgery - obvious
Plastic Surgery - obvious
Ophthalmology - a lot is done with lasers, but a good amount of procedures still require good hand skills
Anesthesiology - Tough incubations, different nerve blocks, etc...
-I have an first hand example of a girl at the top of her med school class getting into anesthesia residency and getting kicked out after year one because her hand skills were so poor

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of physicians who are strictly clinicians that don't do many procedures but you don't know right now what type of physician you will become.

My 2cents

I understand that I need hand skills. The issue was with translating a shape or image in my head onto a tooth. Factor in indirect vision and back of the mouth and I just can't seem to make it look the way I can outside of the mouth. Either way, I'm not the best artist. I can do things with my hands. Just not make shapes. I would never attempt plastics or cardiology, especially since they are so competitive.

 

[Silent Cool]

Becoming a physician doesn't mean you don't need hand skills. If you go the medicine route, you really have no idea right now what residency you will get. Here are some procedures that requires some hand skills.

Cardiology - Catheters; a lot of cardiology procedures on done through caths
Gen Surgery - obvious
Orthopedic surgery - obvious
Plastic Surgery - obvious
Ophthalmology - a lot is done with lasers, but a good amount of procedures still require good hand skills
Anesthesiology - Tough incubations, different nerve blocks, etc...
-I have an first hand example of a girl at the top of her med school class getting into anesthesia residency and getting kicked out after year one because her hand skills were so poor

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of physicians who are strictly clinicians that don't do many procedures but you don't know right now what type of physician you will become.

My 2cents

It is very unlikely that he OP would match into any of the bolded above, especially if he/she has poor handskills. The most likely outcome for the OP (and for any given medical student) would be FM, IM, Peds, Psych. The point being that medicine offers many (non-competitive) options for the OP that dentistry doesn't that don't require any sort of manual dexterity. Psych is incredibly non-competitive, and there are no hand-skills involved. Likewise, the OP could enter Path or Rads (the latter being fairly competitive) and never need any significant use of hands (saving Int. Rad.). OP would have to work VERY hard to get into ophtho, plastics, etc..., and I doubt he would choose any of those fields with dexterity issues. Medicine gives you options. Dentistry is much more confining. The one field in dentistry that doesn't require great dexterity is Ortho, but that is competitive.

 

[diasIItema]

Failure is unheard of at my dental school. There are many people who fail didactics, and the administration passes them anyway despite school policy that demands remediation. We lose one or two per class, but they tend to remove themselves.

As for tremors, one student removed himself for tremors and seizures. It was a sad case. But we have a fourth year who makes everyone uncomfortable when he's practicing. His hands shake more than any I've ever seen. He's competent enough, but I would freak out as a patient/assistant.

But since my school is in a ton of debt and one of the most expensive in the nation, I can see why people don't flunk out, even though they probably should.

Sorry to hear about your situation. But on the bright side, it's probably better that you saved two years tuition and graduating into a career that you would have potentially had to remove yourself from for lack of ability. It's probably a saving grace.

PA/Medicine/PhD could be good routes from here.

 

[Candace1633]

It is very unlikely that he OP would match into any of the bolded above, especially if he/she has poor handskills. The most likely outcome for the OP (and for any given medical student) would be FM, IM, Peds, Psych. The point being that medicine offers many (non-competitive) options for the OP that dentistry doesn't that don't require any sort of manual dexterity. Psych is incredibly non-competitive, and there are no hand-skills involved. Likewise, the OP could enter Path or Rads (the latter being fairly competitive) and never need any significant use of hands (saving Int. Rad.). OP would have to work VERY hard to get into ophtho, plastics, etc..., and I doubt he would choose any of those fields with dexterity issues. Medicine gives you options. Dentistry is much more confining. The one field in dentistry that doesn't require great dexterity is Ortho, but that is competitive.

Agreed. That was my main point. I wouldn't do something super hands involved, and it isn't worth it for me anymore. The school has made it very difficult to keep going.

 

[Silent Cool]

I understand that I need hand skills. The issue was with translating a shape or image in my head onto a tooth. Factor in indirect vision and back of the mouth and I just can't seem to make it look the way I can outside of the mouth. Either way, I'm not the best artist. I can do things with my hands. Just not make shapes. I would never attempt plastics or cardiology, especially since they are so competitive.

OP,

I agree with OutRun above. Many students struggle with handskills, and from what I understand your university is just malignant. Believe me--there are graduates of many dental schools the country over with 'questionable' hands. The fact that your school is offering you a second chance is good. I would take some of those commonly recommended classes for dent students--pottery, sculpting, etc.., in the interim to show you are dedicated if you want to go back to dental school. I think that with a focused effort like that, they will take you.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Candace1633]

What kind of things can you suggest to students interested in dentistry to try and see if they have the potential for the hand dexterity required in dentistry? This is one of the things I am also most worried about dental school.

I would say try to work in a lab or at least visit a lab to see what dental school entails. You don't have to do much lab work after dental school from what I've heard, but you have to do TONS in dental school. UTHSCSA has a lab but from what I've heard, it leaves the student with a lot of adjusting to do.

 

[Localnative]

If you've given the situation an honest assessment (which I have no doubt you have) and you consider yourself more of the "cerebral" type and do not favor the technical side of dentistry, I say give medicine a shot. There is certainly more diversity in terms of intellectual pursuits in medicine (internal medicine, allergy/immunology, infectious disease, anatomic path, cytopath, genetics, etc...).

Again, I think this is a bit more than a technical BLOCK and from what you've described, goes beyond some of the typical ups and downs dental students experience. I appreciate your willingness to stick out a difficult situation. It sounds to me like you have the maturity and will power to change directions and excel on a path of your choosing outside of the dental field.

Good luck!

 

[gryffindor]

There are specialties and areas in dentistry that don't require much manual dexterity:

Oral Radiology
Temporomandibular Disorders
Orofacial Pain
Dental Sleep Medicine

You can also avoid patients by going into research or academia.

But I think there is more opportunity with an MD to practice without having to do technical procedures.

It might be possible to buy a portable compressor and tubing unit to be able to practice drilling teeth in your garage or basement, if you want to practice.

 

[Candace1633]

If you've given the situation an honest assessment (which I have no doubt you have) and you consider yourself more of the "cerebral" type and do not favor the technical side of dentistry, I say give medicine a shot. There is certainly more diversity in terms of intellectual pursuits in medicine (internal medicine, allergy/immunology, infectious disease, anatomic path, cytopath, genetics, etc...).

Again, I think this is a bit more than a technical BLOCK and from what you've described, goes beyond some of the typical ups and downs dental students experience. I appreciate your willingness to stick out a difficult situation. It sounds to me like you have the maturity and will power to change directions and excel on a path of your choosing outside of the dental field.

Good luck!

Thanks. I've been fighting an uphill battle for a long time and I appreciate the kind words. I have had a very hard time there, and right now I'm looking into all of my options.

 

[Candace1633]

There are specialties and areas in dentistry that don't require much manual dexterity:

Oral Radiology
Temporomandibular Disorders
Orofacial Pain
Dental Sleep Medicine

You can also avoid patients by going into research or academia.

But I think there is more opportunity with an MD to practice without having to do technical procedures.

It might be possible to buy a portable compressor and tubing unit to be able to practice drilling teeth in your garage or basement, if you want to practice.

I agree with a lot of that, but I would have to graduate from dental school to even do that. And I'm not sure if that opportunity will come, unfortunately.

 

[NDPitch]

Candace, you're scaring me. Haha.

I'm about to start dental school. I've always sucked at things like drawing, where you "see" something in your head and translate it into physical form. So in that regard we sound similar. I was hoping that dental school would teach me how to do that with dentistry and that I'd improve with 3d manipulation. Yikes, what if I don't?!?

Have to try to find out suppose.

 

[Candace1633]

Candace, you're scaring me. Haha.

I'm about to start dental school. I've always sucked at things like drawing, where you "see" something in your head and translate it into physical form. So in that regard we sound similar. I was hoping that dental school would teach me how to do that with dentistry and that I'd improve with 3d manipulation. Yikes, what if I don't?!?

Have to try to find out suppose.

Haha I'm sorry NDpitch. I'm not trying to freak anyone out. I just had such a ridiculous experience that I feel like I should tell people about. UTHSCSA seems to have some issues. And the thing is lots of people can be taught. Most, actually. I still don't know if I'm one of those or not. But again, the only way you can know with dental school is to try. And although I may never be a DDS, I have learned SO MUCH. I also think it will be extremely useful for a future career in healthcare.

Point being, you have to try to know. I say give yourself a shot.

 

[RickCo]

I worked with a gastroenterologist who did one year of dental school, decided it wasn't for him, then decided to go to medical school. Granted, this was more than a few years ago, but it can be done. He said first year of med school was a breeze because he'd basically done everything prior. It happens, but as others have said, make sure you think long and hard about that course of action. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Lethstang]

op,

if you got into dental school, you can get into MD school. requirements are almost identical.

if you cant, apply to DO school. the requirements are very low, on par with hygiene. we are talking 3.1 gpa 24 mcats. great thing about DO is while its tougher to get into residencies due to competing with MD's, you do get them and can go on to a very baller medical career, just like an MD. I would do this if med school shut you out because they took your d school grades into consideration.

if you are stuck on MD, go to a caribbean school which again , everyone can get into. you will most likely be stuck in family medicine though for your specialty.

pharm as always, easy to get into for a dental student. you have many options bud. I am very sorry this didnt work out for you. There are some very bad handskill dentists out there, you just happened to go to the one school who will throw you out for it. Maybe tell your school youd like to finish on the condition you enter into oral path?

for the other posters stressing over their hands now, stop worrying. no one fails out due to hand skills. this is a very unique case and has to do with his particular school.

 

[Silent Cool]

Candace, you're scaring me. Haha.

I'm about to start dental school. I've always sucked at things like drawing, where you "see" something in your head and translate it into physical form. So in that regard we sound similar. I was hoping that dental school would teach me how to do that with dentistry and that I'd improve with 3d manipulation. Yikes, what if I don't?!?

Have to try to find out suppose.

ND, don't worry. You will be fine.

 

[GolgeeDrinkRocks]

San Antonio sucks!

 

[Pleonasm]

I know this is a long shot but is there anyone here who had to leave dental school because of poor handskills? I was just dismissed from dental school after failling my 2nd year and am considering medicine because the handskills were my major problem. Any advice?

Did you take basics sciences with med students? I had a classmate who did not pass sophomore operative and the department recommended she not continue. The rest of her grades were very high, though. Since we had most of our basic sciences with med students, the DS facilitated her transfering to the university's med school. She did some extra basic science classes (obviously there were courses that we didn't have) then did the 2nd 2 yrs of med school. She is a pediatrician now.

 

[longhornpride]

This is very sad to hear. I'm sorry that your school doesn't put out a bigger effort into helping you. It's one thing if the student simply lacks effort or any desire, but you seem to have tried and they seem to have given up on you VERY early.

There were a few people at my school that struggled with hand skills. We ALL helped them. Students, faculty, staff... we all helped. I would see faculty sit 1 on 1 during the entire pre clin sessions with these students and not get up. When the still couldn't hack it, our school didn't kick them out. They didn't even make them repeat. Instead, they could not see patients their 3rd year and had to have 1 on 1 sessions with faculty until they were competent. For some, it took 3-4 months of 1 on 1 session. After they could pass their summatives/practicals, they were allowed to enter clinic and join the rest of us. For some people it takes a little longer. One of my very good friends struggled and with the help of classmates and faculty, he was able to make it. The guy passed all his boards and is now in a residency program. I really wish your school would have helped you some more.

 

[Saddleshoes]

Candace
It is possible to move into another health care field after a D-School bomb out. We had a girl with "lead hands" in my class. (My assessment was that she was way too nervous about the whole deal, due to pressure from her overbearing family.) She bailed out after 2 years. I heard through the grapevine that she became a Physiologist or Psychiatrist. Either way she landed on her feet after the bad start in dental school. You will too!