Leaving Vet School but Reapplying - Need Advice

[hopefuldogtor123]

Hi all! I've recently just decided that I will be leaving my dual degree MS/DVM program at my current vet school. I am in my very first year, so I will be able to leave before starting vet school but after finishing up my MS. This vet school in particular has just been extremely disrespectful with regards to financial aid (there are a few of us needing to pay out of pocket this semester even though we have the average rent, bills, and utilities cost and don't spend our aid on that much food even - I live on only $50 worth of food for 2 weeks and the vet school has quit advocating for us), health and medical conditions, and taking in feedback (there's always a ton of pushback and the admin gets very defensive, even when multiple people are telling them the same thing. it is to the point where people do not feel comfortable sharing feedback in fear of being dismissed.). I cannot stay in a school that disrespects me and undervalues me as a student, and upon hearing all the details (that I will not reveal on here to protect identities), my partner and best friends are all very supportive and actually have been encouraging me to leave.

What I am seeking now is advice on reapplying. My MS is all virtual, so I could just go back home as soon as I withdraw. I would actually like to do that so that I can begin working in a new vet clinic and build some new, more current relationships with some vets to ask for LORs. I'm sure the vets who I had previously gotten my LORs would be happy to write them for me again, but I don't know if they would be considered strong LORs since it has been awhile. The only issue is that I am taking one in-person class, which is anatomy and a very important class that I'm sure schools will look at, even though I have a physiology class also under my belt from undergrad. So it is currently feeling like my only options are to stay and finish my anatomy class so that I don't take a W/withdrawal grade on it but not work in a vet clinic and form new relationships and just use my old LORs or take the W/withdrawal grade, utilize the exceptional circumstances statement, and go back home to form new relationships for new and potentially stronger LORs. I don't want to wait to apply another cycle due to my age. With regards to my GPA, I'm doing extremely well in my MS program and will end with a high GPA. I think it is important to note that I do think that I can end with a high grade in anatomy as well. I have been accepted to other schools in the past (which I now wish that I had just gone to), though I am aware that with each year, the application pool gets more and more competitive and I might not be accepted into those same schools again. However, my current MS and success in last cycle gives me at least a little bit of hope.

Thank you for reading this far! I ask for constructive feedback and positive vibes please! It's been a really rough year where I have been advocating for myself, and it certainly has taken a toll on my mental health that I notice is lifted as soon as I go on break and don't have to advocate for myself.

Also adding on to say that if vet school doesn't happen for me, I am ok with that as long as I am happy. I would pivot to vet tech in this case or perhaps turn dog training from a hobby into a job. Money isn't too big of an issue when thinking long-term (i.e. when we start building a family) as I am fortunate to have a partner who is capable of making enough money.

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[MixedAnimals77]

I'm sure you won't share, but what school is this? This just sounds very atypical particularly in regards to the tuition issue. Admin can be hit or miss on the other issues but there should be established guidelines that the school must follow for things like mental/physical health related issues as well as provide mechanisms for feedback without fear of retaliation. If it's truly bad escalating to the AVMA accreditation body/the AVMA/AAVMC may be appropriate

Just incase you didn't know, assuming you're speaking of a US school, aid is set by the federal government and is controlled by main uni and the vet school from my knowledge has very little influence in these issues. Maybe I'm naive but like MD schools and many people at private DVM schools don't have this issue even with high tuition which is why I'm confused. If you're outside of the US this makes much more sense.

A second thought is could you look into a transfer since already accepted or a deferment to maybe give some time?

 

[hopefuldogtor123]

I'm sure you won't share, but what school is this? This just sounds very atypical particularly in regards to the tuition issue. Admin can be hit or miss on the other issues but there should be established guidelines that the school must follow for things like mental/physical health related issues as well as provide mechanisms for feedback without fear of retaliation. If it's truly bad escalating to the AVMA accreditation body/the AVMA/AAVMC may be appropriate

Just incase you didn't know, assuming you're speaking of a US school, aid is set by the federal government and is controlled by main uni and the vet school from my knowledge has very little influence in these issues. Maybe I'm naive but like MD schools and many people at private DVM schools don't have this issue even with high tuition which is why I'm confused. If you're outside of the US this makes much more sense.

A second thought is could you look into a transfer since already accepted or a deferment to maybe give some time?

Hi! thanks for your response! I think I'm going to forego revealing which school it is because that might cause issues for other people. It is mostly people in the dual degree or combo programs (so not the regular DVM program) who are hesitant to speak out because there's been so much pushback already, and nobody wants to risk anything. They never explicitly stated that they would "punish" anyone though. It's just the vibe I guess people have been getting due to the pushback.

I'm not sure about the aid situation but all I know is that I am paying more this semester in tuition for my MS but I am receiving much less. I've tried speaking with the financial aid office already multiple times, and I never receive any sort of communication back, and at this point, nobody in the vet school really wants to deal with them either, so it feels like they've given up advocating for us. I will admit that I am not very educated in the policies surrounding financial aid though when it comes to what the school has to follow.

I also considered a transfer, but it's hard to line up this school's curriculum with other school's, and considering that the curriculums much match for most schools to even consider a transfer, it would be very difficult for me to transfer (plus not to mention the low percentage of people who are actually able to transfer successfully). Unfortunately because my program is a dual degree and I have already started, I don't think that deferment is an option, but I'm also not 100% sure.

 

[Mythical]

FYI: you may want to consider deleting previous posts on sdn

 

[battie]

I'm not sure about the aid situation but all I know is that I am paying more this semester in tuition for my MS but I am receiving much less. I've tried speaking with the financial aid office already multiple times, and I never receive any sort of communication back, and at this point, nobody in the vet school really wants to deal with them either, so it feels like they've given up advocating for us. I will admit that I am not very educated in the policies surrounding financial aid though when it comes to what the school has to follow.

Unfortunately, the vet school may not be able to advocate for specific students or groups of students very much due to how the main university dictates costs and financial aid, as Mixy stated. The federal government also dictates how much a student is allowed to take out over the course of their degree as well. The best our dean was ever able to do for us at my school is keep the parking cost lower since we are required to be on campus for rotations for our entire degree compared to others on campus.

The bureaucracy of academia is ridiculous. While I understand the frustration with your direct degree admin since they on theory should be the people who could be the most direct line of help, they very well may have no control. Financial aid is exactly who you need to be speaking to directly in person.

I also considered a transfer, but it's hard to line up this school's curriculum with other school's, and considering that the curriculums much match for most schools to even consider a transfer, it would be very difficult for me to transfer (plus not to mention the low percentage of people who are actually able to transfer successfully). Unfortunately because my program is a dual degree and I have already started, I don't think that deferment is an option, but I'm also not 100% sure.

You honestly may be more likely to transfer and need to repeat a year than being admitted outright through VMCAS. Especially since, if I'm reading your post right, you'll finish the MS and not have started the DVM? Then there's no real concern for the DVM portion at all. If you think about it, even though a small total number of people apply for transfer compared to applicants through VMCAS, a higher percentage of those people are accepted for transfer than through VMCAS.

 

[hopefuldogtor123]

FYI: you may want to consider deleting previous posts on sdn

Thank you! I'll keep it open for anyone curious on LMU, so I guess just an FYI for anyone, this school isn't LMU. I ended up going to a completely different school in the end. If anything, I actually wish that I had ended up making that decision to go to LMU.

 

[hopefuldogtor123]

Unfortunately, the vet school may not be able to advocate for specific students or groups of students very much due to how the main university dictates costs and financial aid, as Mixy stated. The federal government also dictates how much a student is allowed to take out over the course of their degree as well. The best our dean was ever able to do for us at my school is keep the parking cost lower since we are required to be on campus for rotations for our entire degree compared to others on campus.

The bureaucracy of academia is ridiculous. While I understand the frustration with your direct degree admin since they on theory should be the people who could be the most direct line of help, they very well may have no control. Financial aid is exactly who you need to be speaking to directly in person.

You honestly may be more likely to transfer and need to repeat a year than being admitted outright through VMCAS. Especially since, if I'm reading your post right, you'll finish the MS and not have started the DVM? Then there's no real concern for the DVM portion at all. If you think about it, even though a small total number of people apply for transfer compared to applicants through VMCAS, a higher percentage of those people are accepted for transfer than through VMCAS.

I guess it's just a little frustrating because last semester they actually fought with us, and we were able to get our entire aid, while this semester, the lack of aid is much bigger, but it's almost as if they gave up immediately. Unfortunately, financial aid is just unwilling to work with us and speak with us in any capacity at this point, so I have just accepted that I might need external help to cover my needs for this semester.

I had thought that transfers actually had a really low success rate because the curriculums need to match and then there's the low chance that a seat even opens up in the class. This was at least my understanding combing through the posts about transfers on the forum. Do you know then if the curriculums have to match class for class? Or is there a slight gap of forgiveness if just one class doesn't match up? I just can't see myself powering through the next 4 years without endangering my mental health, so I don't know if I want to take that risk.

 

[battie]

I had thought that transfers actually had a really low success rate because the curriculums need to match and then there's the low chance that a seat even opens up in the class. This was at least my understanding combing through the posts about transfers on the forum. Do you know then if the curriculums have to match class for class? Or is there a slight gap of forgiveness if just one class doesn't match up? I just can't see myself powering through the next 4 years without endangering my mental health, so I don't know if I want to take that risk.

Why would they need to match if you won't have started your DVM by the time you leave?

I might need external help to cover my needs for this semester.

I lawyer might be cheaper than private loans.

 

[battie]

Transfer note: I don't have any data to back up my supposition that transferring is more successful than VMCAS admissions. But it's logical to me cause VMCAS acceptions are sitting at around 43-45%. So to be more successful, only half of transfer requests need to be accepted.

Plus, it would be easier to spin your story for transfer than outright leaving a CVM to reapply. You can use virtually any excuse to try to transfer (in state tuition, changed life circumstances, etc). Whereas completely quitting a program to try to enter another one a year later is harder to explain.

Finally, you really have nothing to lose in trying to transfer

 

[hopefuldogtor123]

Transfer note: I don't have any data to back up my supposition that transferring is more successful than VMCAS admissions. But it's logical to me cause VMCAS acceptions are sitting at around 43-45%. So to be more successful, only half of transfer requests need to be accepted.

Plus, it would be easier to spin your story for transfer than outright leaving a CVM to reapply. You can use virtually any excuse to try to transfer (in state tuition, changed life circumstances, etc). Whereas completely quitting a program to try to enter another one a year later is harder to explain.

Finally, you really have nothing to lose in trying to transfer

Sorry, I didn't clarify enough. From my understanding, if I transferred, I could only transfer during my second or third year, right? I wouldn't be able to transfer now since I haven't started my DVM yet? So then if I transferred during my second or third year, wouldn't most schools require that all the basic classes that their students take also be covered by the school I am coming from? Sorry for the confusion but that's what I was referring to with matching curriculums!

If I did reapply, I wouldn't have to actually explain quitting a program. It's a little weird in that the dual degree program is included with the vet school but also not included as it is part of the graduate school. So there's actually nothing on my transcript that states that I am part of the school's DVM program, which I suppose makes sense since I was required to accept my seat again this year as if I had just been accepted this cycle.

 

[battie]

Sorry, I didn't clarify enough. From my understanding, if I transferred, I could only transfer during my second or third year, right? I wouldn't be able to transfer now since I haven't started my DVM yet? So then if I transferred during my second or third year, wouldn't most schools require that all the basic classes that their students take also be covered by the school I am coming from? Sorry for the confusion but that's what I was referring to with matching curriculums!

Again, you have nothing to lose from trying. To transfer, you contact the schools you're interested in transferring to and see what they say. Since your in a dual degree program, not having started yet may be an advantage in that there's nothing to line up.

If I did reapply, I wouldn't have to actually explain quitting a program. It's a little weird in that the dual degree program is included with the vet school but also not included as it is part of the graduate school. So there's actually nothing on my transcript that states that I am part of the school's DVM program, which I suppose makes sense since I was required to accept my seat again this year as if I had just been accepted this cycle.

I mean, I would make sure you have this in writing from someone since VMCAS requires you to state whether or not you've previously been accepted to a DVM program (at least it did when I was applying). You've technically been accepted to a DVM program.

 

[hopefuldogtor123]

Again, you have nothing to lose from trying. To transfer, you contact the schools you're interested in transferring to and see what they say. Since your in a dual degree program, not having started yet may be an advantage in that there's nothing to line up.

I mean, I would make sure you have this in writing from someone since VMCAS requires you to state whether or not you've previously been accepted to a DVM program (at least it did when I was applying). You've technically been accepted to a DVM program.

Ahh, ok, thank you so much for clarifying! Both points make a lot more sense now. I will definitely reach out to the programs I'm interested in transferring to and see what their responses are, and I'll reach out to a trusted faculty member or the. dean and see if I am able to acquire this. I have learned that others in the same program as me have also left before starting their actual DVM years, so there might be someone who can shed some light on this then! Thank you so much for your help! It is greatly appreciated!!

 

[Mythical]

Thank you! I'll keep it open for anyone curious on LMU, so I guess just an FYI for anyone, this school isn't LMU. I ended up going to a completely different school in the end. If anything, I actually wish that I had ended up making that decision to go to LMU.

Okay… that’s a relief. I didn’t want your anonymity to be jeopardized.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

I guess it's just a little frustrating because last semester they actually fought with us, and we were able to get our entire aid, while this semester, the lack of aid is much bigger, but it's almost as if they gave up immediately. Unfortunately, financial aid is just unwilling to work with us and speak with us in any capacity at this point, so I have just accepted that I might need external help to cover my needs for this semester.

Just wanting to emphasize batties point of going down IN PERSON. Then they have no choice but to talk to you. Most schools have the option to schedule an appointment when you have questions. Not that it's an excuse, but I find financial aid offices are often poorly staffed and poorly trained with only a handful of people who can actually be of help when the question is beyond simple problems. It's going to take dedication to get the answers you are likely looking for even if the answer you get is not one you are looking for.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Hi! thanks for your response! I think I'm going to forego revealing which school it is because that might cause issues for other people. It is mostly people in the dual degree or combo programs (so not the regular DVM program) who are hesitant to speak out because there's been so much pushback already, and nobody wants to risk anything. They never explicitly stated that they would "punish" anyone though. It's just the vibe I guess people have been getting due to the pushback.

Not saying that your admin is good or bad. I'm not there and just expressing a 3rd party view. Obviously you are in the program actively, but I would caution basing your decisions and suspected responses from admin based on others experiences unless you are directly involved and are seeing the whole picture. Ie direct conversations being had from both sides. I found through vet school I definitely had classmates that were very antiadmin but I found my experiences to be vastly different from what some of my other classmates experienced. It was likely how things were presented and asked. Just something to consider because *usually* when admin pushes back there's a reason apparent to students or not. How good they are at communicating those reasons is a different story

Also not saying that you should or shouldn't continue school there but overall if admin is the issue at least at my vet school they directly influenced little of my day to day life as a student and the teachers were a much bigger and direct influence. Sure some students having extenuating circumstances interacted with them more or if someome was protesting or what have you that went above the day to day curriculum in a classroom.

 

[cml156]

Transfer note: I don't have any data to back up my supposition that transferring is more successful than VMCAS admissions. But it's logical to me cause VMCAS acceptions are sitting at around 43-45%. So to be more successful, only half of transfer requests need to be accepted.

Plus, it would be easier to spin your story for transfer than outright leaving a CVM to reapply. You can use virtually any excuse to try to transfer (in state tuition, changed life circumstances, etc). Whereas completely quitting a program to try to enter another one a year later is harder to explain.

Finally, you really have nothing to lose in trying to transfer

Just chiming in to say I am a successful transfer student. I was originally a 2020 start student and transferred out after 1st year. Most and almost all that take transfer applicants will have a page thats easy to find on their vet schools website with all info you need! You just google "Texas A&M University Vet School Transfer" and likewise for all veterinary schools you are interested in and it will give you all info as far as GPA or if they want you to complete a semester or two and so on. Some schools depending on your circumstances may look past some of their requirements! They turned an eye to my transfer GPA for one of the programs since I was very close to what they wanted. I had maybe 4 successful transfer interviews and ended up getting 2 acceptances. If you have any questions about it you can message me too!