LECOM-Bradenton vs. KCUMB

[SoCar]

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Hello everyone, I am struggling choosing between my two top choices for schools. I posted this here because I'm not really interested in the pre-med "advice" offered in the pre-med section. I am really looking for students or graduates of these schools to give me their insight.

KCUMB
Pros:
-Family lives in Kansas City
-Great match list
-Great facilities
-Feels more like a school (community feeling)
-Great reputation
-KC is a great job market for my girlfriend that is coming with me
-Possibly live with family

Cons:
-Tuition is more expensive than LECOM-B ($10k/year)
-Cold weather
-8am-5pm class (most of the med students/residents I know really thought lecture was a waste of time)
-Have to take Biochemistry before starting in August

LECOM-B
Pros:
-Problem Based Learning (less time in lecture, more time studying)
-100% board pass rate last year
-Flexibility for clinicals
-Prosection
-Great weather/Beachs

Cons:
-They don't pay for clinicals so they aren't guaranteed and it takes legwork on your part
-Don't know anyone in Florida
-PBL is concerning to me because of the lack of direction it seems

I know in the end this would be my decision to make but any insight you guys can give me would be great.

 

[EmersonAnne]

I was in the same position last year. I chose KCUMB and am glad I did.

 

[Altruist]

LECOM-B
Pros:
-Problem Based Learning (less time in lecture, more time studying)
-100% board pass rate last year
-Flexibility for clinicals
-Prosection
-Great weather/Beachs

Cons:
-They don't pay for clinicals so they aren't guaranteed and it takes legwork on your part
-Don't know anyone in Florida
-PBL is concerning to me because of the lack of direction it seems

LECOM-B first year here. First off, choosing between schools is not a bad problem to have. I'm not going to spout off some ridiculous bs about which school is better, because I really don't know much about KCUMB. I have no doubt that each school graduates some great physicians, and others who aren't so great. That's just the way it goes. Whichever school you go to, once you start classes, it's up to you and how hard you want to work.

I do like it here in Bradenton. In my experience here, PBL doesn't seem to suffer from a lack of direction. Last semester, for example, we had a pulmonary block. The difference for us is that we were tested on all angles of pulmonary at once, so we covered lung histology, lung anatomy, lung physiology, lung pathology, and some lung medications simultaneously. I felt like I got a pretty complete understanding by studying it that way.

We take diagnostic exams every so often to see what we've covered well (as a class) and what we haven't, and that guides the cases chosen for the next semester. So if the class was weak in some section of pharmacology, they might pick one case for the next block that's heavy on that subject so we hit it again. I'm told that over the 2 years here, we eventually hit most topics twice.

I don't want to oversell Bradenton, because PBL definitely isn't for everybody. But it has been great for me, so far.

As far as the clinicals, I don't think Bradenton explains this very well. You WILL get placed into the required clinicals. I don't believe they've ever had a problem with that. As long as you're willing to go to the hospitals the school has a standing agreement with, you're set. Some people might not have got their top pick of where they rotated, but that's about the worst thing that happens. Where you might have to do work is if you want to do REQUIRED rotations at NEW places the school DOESN'T have an agreement with.

I think the elective rotations require a bit of legwork, deciding what you want to do and where, and getting paperwork for them, but your electives amount to 2 months of 3rd year and 4 months of 4th year. Odds are you're going to want to do audition rotations for a couple of those 4th year rotations anyway... So to me, it's not such a huge deal.

Hopefully an upperclassman can correct any mistakes I've made talking about clinicals.

 

[JaggerPlate]

PBL vs non-PBL ... big, big difference, and one which needs to work for YOU. It's really hard for people on the interweb to tell you to choose one school that does strict PBL over another that does NOT, simply because it's a super personal learning style, and you need to be right for it.

 

[digitlnoize]

KCUMB
Pros:
-Family lives in Kansas City
-Great match list
-Great facilities
-Feels more like a school (community feeling)
-Great reputation
-KC is a great job market for my girlfriend that is coming with me
-Possibly live with family

Cons:
-Tuition is more expensive than LECOM-B ($10k/year)
-Cold weather
-8am-5pm class (most of the med students/residents I know really thought lecture was a waste of time)
-Have to take Biochemistry before starting in August

LECOM-B
Pros:
-Problem Based Learning (less time in lecture, more time studying)
-100% board pass rate last year
-Flexibility for clinicals
-Prosection
-Great weather/Beachs

Cons:
-They don't pay for clinicals so they aren't guaranteed and it takes legwork on your part
-Don't know anyone in Florida
-PBL is concerning to me because of the lack of direction it seems

I don't know much about KCUMB, so I can't say much about them...but I'm a 2nd year at LECOM-B, so I'll give you my thoughts...Cons First.

There is PLENTY of direction in PBL. It's rather obvious, for the most part what you're supposed to be studying. For example, if I gave you a patient with Left sided chest pain, shortness of breath with activity, and a history of high bp and a bad diet, what would you read? Probably: heart anatomy, heart phys, heart path, drugs used for angina and/or MI. And that's your reading for that case. Next case = pt has diabetes. What do you read? Biochem of glucose, insulin pharm, endocrine path, endocrine phys...It's not rocket science. I have NEVER felt like there wasn't enough direction.

Clinicals: I had no problem getting the rotations I wanted, thus far. Most people don't. We seem to have enough rotation spots in Florida for the people that want to stay here. About 1/2 of my class is headed back up north because that's where they're from and they can (for now, at least) use the Erie spots up there...of which there are HUNDREDS. It wasn't a huge problem. It does take a bit of legwork, but not very much if you're using the school's spots. The real legwork only happens if you're trying to set up your own spots. I think our flexibility is a huge advantage, as is the range of pathology we'll see thanks to our older population in Florida.

I didn't know anyone here either. Fortunately, my med school class had ~160 awesome people in it. I've got too many friends and too little time to spend with them. I actually think not knowing people is an advantage. You'll be less distracted.

Your "Pros" are pretty much right on the money. Great weather. PBL = more study time. We've had GREAT board scores every year but the 1st one. My class is hoping to keep it up. Based on our comparisons to previous classes on our board diagnostic tests, we look to do about the same as last years' class...although we might have more failures due to COMLEX raising their standard this year. But we'll still likely be in the top couple of schools in the country.

Biggest factor here is MONEY. LECOM is cheaper tuition (40k over 4 years). Is it worth 40k to you to stay at home? Not a simple questions. You could save some of that 40k difference by living at home. Does your girlfriend's income count? That could also offset some of the cost difference. There's not a great job market here, although it depends on what she does...Make sure to consider ALL of the monetary aspects when looking at the cost. For example, I just had a $30k catheter ablation to fix my heart arrhythmia that I've had since I was a kid...thanks to LECOM's awesome insurance I paid $0. Planning on kids? I have a few classmates that just had kids. Cost = $0. Most insurance requires a 20% copay...for some reason, ours (Blue Cross) is 0%. Saved me a pretty penny. Compare rent prices. Compare gas prices. Food. Girlfriend Salaries. Possible health costs. Everything else. Then crunch the numbers and see who comes out ahead. It'll probably be LECOM, but by how much. Don't forget to include the cost of the move and travel home for holidays.

I'm very biased, but that being said, I'd pick LECOM-B. I think it's one of the best schools around.

 

[WDeagle]

Hello everyone, I am struggling choosing between my two top choices for schools. I posted this here because I'm not really interested in the pre-med "advice" offered in the pre-med section. I am really looking for students or graduates of these schools to give me their insight.

KCUMB
Pros:
-Family lives in Kansas City
-Great match list
-Great facilities
-Feels more like a school (community feeling)
-Great reputation
-KC is a great job market for my girlfriend that is coming with me
-Possibly live with family

Cons:
-Tuition is more expensive than LECOM-B ($10k/year)
-Cold weather
-8am-5pm class (most of the med students/residents I know really thought lecture was a waste of time)
-Have to take Biochemistry before starting in August

LECOM-B
Pros:
-Problem Based Learning (less time in lecture, more time studying)
-100% board pass rate last year
-Flexibility for clinicals
-Prosection
-Great weather/Beachs

Cons:
-They don't pay for clinicals so they aren't guaranteed and it takes legwork on your part
-Don't know anyone in Florida
-PBL is concerning to me because of the lack of direction it seems

I know in the end this would be my decision to make but any insight you guys can give me would be great.

I bolded some things that you might be wrong about. First off KCUMB actually has pretty crappy facilities. Everything is pretty on the outside but is pretty outdated on the inside. There isnt enough study space to accomodate students and the technology is terrible. However, i would rather go to a good school with crappy facilities than a crappy school with awesome facilities. That being said a new gym and library are currently being constructed and the school is said to be getting new computers soon.

Second, the only time you will have 8-5 lecture consistantly is during Neuro. You'll get occasional days with a ton of lecture packed in. Most labs are in the afternoon. Second years have a lot more labs in the morning. In general 8-5 days are pretty rare. Besides you probably wouldnt go to class anyway.

I dont know much about LECOM-B but i have heard they have awesome board scores. They probably do a better job than KCUMB for board prep. However, we also do pretty well but i dont think its the curriculum that gets us ready. Its probably more student effort. In retrospect i think PBL would be a more effecient way to learn this stuff. Our curriculum is pretty clinically oriented at KCUMB so alot of the focus is on step II type of stuff. Also, usually when a school says "flexible clinicals" it usually means not very good clinicals. I dont know anything about LECOMB's clinicals but the osteopathic world often markets crappy clinicals as "flexible clinicals."

Hope this helps.

 

[digitlnoize]

Also, usually when a school says "flexible clinicals" it usually means not very good clinicals. I dont know anything about LECOMB's clinicals but the osteopathic world often markets crappy clinicals as "flexible clinicals."

Hope this helps.

I don't think LECOM itself has ever said, "flexible clinicals." That's more what the students say.

I say they're flexible because the schedule allows a lot of variety in elective choices and locations. They let us pick from their sites in Florida, their sites in the northeast, or set up our own sites anywhere we want. That's pretty flexible. We go where we WANT to go. We aren't told where to go by the school (usually...unless we don't pick a spot, or something falls through at the last minute or something). Obviously, we have to do certain core rotations, but we have a good amount of elective time, especially early in 4th year when it counts. I'm going to be able to do ~6 away rotations early in 4th year for residency auditions. That's a lot.

I think our rotations here in Florida are quite good, from what I've heard from upper classmen. We rotate at some pretty major places in Tampa/St. Pete, as well as some big hospitals in Miami, Palm Beach, etc. Granted, most of them are not teaching institutions (yet, some are quickly switching), but I don't want that, personally. I want one-on-one time with my attendings. I have ZERO desire to work in academia and want to be trained in the environment I'm going to practice in.

 

[EmersonAnne]

Second, the only time you will have 8-5 lecture consistantly is during Neuro. You'll get occasional days with a ton of lecture packed in. Most labs are in the afternoon. Second years have a lot more labs in the morning. In general 8-5 days are pretty rare. Besides you probably wouldnt go to class anyway.

Do you go to KCUMB? Because 8-5 is pretty common in first year. It's lecture 8-noon most days. From 1-5, it depends on your lab schedule. If you have OCS and Path lab, there's your 8-5. If you have Anatomy, it's 1-5 right there. If you have micro lab and path lab with an hour two in between, it'll run you until 4 or 5. Same with HPS.

But it's rare that you'll go straight through from 8-5. You'll always have lunch off and you'll usually have an extra hour in the afternoon in between labs.

 

[DiverDoc]

LECOM-B first year here. First off, choosing between schools is not a bad problem to have. I'm not going to spout off some ridiculous bs about which school is better, because I really don't know much about KCUMB. I have no doubt that each school graduates some great physicians, and others who aren't so great. That's just the way it goes. Whichever school you go to, once you start classes, it's up to you and how hard you want to work.

I do like it here in Bradenton. In my experience here, PBL doesn't seem to suffer from a lack of direction. Last semester, for example, we had a pulmonary block. The difference for us is that we were tested on all angles of pulmonary at once, so we covered lung histology, lung anatomy, lung physiology, lung pathology, and some lung medications simultaneously. I felt like I got a pretty complete understanding by studying it that way.

We take diagnostic exams every so often to see what we've covered well (as a class) and what we haven't, and that guides the cases chosen for the next semester. So if the class was weak in some section of pharmacology, they might pick one case for the next block that's heavy on that subject so we hit it again. I'm told that over the 2 years here, we eventually hit most topics twice.

I don't want to oversell Bradenton, because PBL definitely isn't for everybody. But it has been great for me, so far.

As far as the clinicals, I don't think Bradenton explains this very well. You WILL get placed into the required clinicals. I don't believe they've ever had a problem with that. As long as you're willing to go to the hospitals the school has a standing agreement with, you're set. Some people might not have got their top pick of where they rotated, but that's about the worst thing that happens. Where you might have to do work is if you want to do REQUIRED rotations at NEW places the school DOESN'T have an agreement with.

I think the elective rotations require a bit of legwork, deciding what you want to do and where, and getting paperwork for them, but your electives amount to 2 months of 3rd year and 4 months of 4th year. Odds are you're going to want to do audition rotations for a couple of those 4th year rotations anyway... So to me, it's not such a huge deal.

Hopefully an upperclassman can correct any mistakes I've made talking about clinicals.

KCUMB is systems based: so in a sense it is not all that different from what you describe. When we do an organ system, we cover everything. Histo, phys, path, pharm, biochem, etc....simultaneously with OMT doing its best to correlate with the system

 

[MSmentor018]

all the cons are minimal.....the bottom line, is PBL for you? that's the key. if it isn't, then the decision is made. but if it interests you, come on down to the beach campus! I love the PBL/minimal class type curriculum. our board review could have been better. 3rd yr I did mostly private docs for that personal 1:1 time and had 3 electives (I used for checking out residencies), then in your 4th yr only 2 months of EM at core facilities, and the rest is extremely flexible. for me that was important. I wanted the ability do multiple audition rotations and a little traveling. either way, you're going to med school! congrats and good luck👍

 

[daveyjwin]

all the cons are minimal.....the bottom line, is PBL for you? that's the key. if it isn't, then the decision is made. but if it interests you, come on down to the beach campus! I love the PBL/minimal class type curriculum.

Agree here. Everything else is peripheral. Do you like PBL? Go to LECOM-B. Do you like Lectures? Go to KCUMB

 

[HeelHookin]

If PBL is a CON for LECOM-B, you should probably try not to let the beach attract you too much.

 

[SoCar]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Yeah, I feel extremely lucky to have two great schools to choose from (especially after being waitlisted at my in-state school last year). I think I would be happy and successful at either school, but I am leaning towards KCUMB because my family lives there and my girlfriend (of 3 years) will be able to transfer to Kansas City much easier than she would be able to transfer to Bradenton, and her salary would more than make up for the $10k/yr difference.

Could any KCUMB students comment on how valuable/necessary they feel lecture is. Like I said earlier, all my friends (who did well, or are doing well) in med school say that lecture is a waste of time, and that studying is a better use of that time. So do the majority of students go to class? What are your feelings about their advice?