LECOM doesn't require MCAT anymore?

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NickyP86

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not sure if I'm going crazy...I decided to hold off on applying til next year since I've yet to take the MCAT ever. I reside in Florida and wanted to go to LECOM in Bradenton since it's close to home. I'm not really in a position to be selective since my stats are not great (after 2 years of grade replacement I pulled it up to 3.1c/3.2s). I'm pretty positive LECOM always required the MCAT on their website til now where it says they'll consider ACT/SAT scores.

Anyone have experience applying without the MCAT? Haha I'm considering applying now but hesitating since I want to make sure I put my best app forward as to not look like a reapplicant.
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NickyP86 said:
not sure if I'm going crazy...I decided to hold off on applying til next year since I've yet to take the MCAT ever. I reside in Florida and wanted to go to LECOM in Bradenton since it's close to home. I'm not really in a position to be selective since my stats are not great (after 2 years of grade replacement I pulled it up to 3.1c/3.2s). I'm pretty positive LECOM always required the MCAT on their website til now where it says they'll consider ACT/SAT scores.

Anyone have experience applying without the MCAT? Haha I'm considering applying now but hesitating since I want to make sure I put my best app forward as to not look like a reapplicant.
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LECOM requires the MCAT. You can tell them your SAT score but it doesn't affect your application. (When I applied last year)

It seems like for some applicants they will waive MCAT but that isn't made clear on their website on whom can get their MCAT waived. Don't apply without one.
 
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DoctorSynthesis said:
LECOM requires the MCAT. You can tell them your SAT score but it doesn't affect your application
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In lieu of MCAT Scores, LECOM may use an Academic Index Score that uses undergraduate and graduate GPAs in a formula calculation with ACT and/or SAT Critical Reading and Math scores. !! is this right??
 
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ATL.F.Doc said:
In lieu of MCAT Scores, LECOM may use an Academic Index Score that uses undergraduate and graduate GPAs in a formula calculation with ACT and/or SAT Critical Reading and Math scores. !! is this right??
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Yes I read that also. It says MAY though so I interpret that as its at LECOMS discretion and isn't for all applicants. If I'm wrong and they are waiving MCAT I would advise NO one to go to LECOM bradenton.
 
This can't be real? A medical school not requiring MCAT????
 
I mean technically Dartmouth doesn't "require" the MCAT as stated on their website. Technically you also don't need a degree to go to medical school.

Doesn't mean you are getting in without having either one of those.
 
I remember flipping my lid over this too. The academic index score only applies to current PA's applying to their APAP program. Everyone else has to take the MCAT.
 
So a LECOM admissions guy came to my SMP to talk about the school and he mentioned that LECOM would not longer require the MCAT. This is because they've found that the correlation between doing well on the physical and biological sections of the MCAT and doing well in med school are practically insignificant. And doing well on verbal actually has a negative correlation*. If an applicant does not have an MCAT or your MCAT is not up to par, they use an academic index system which takes into account other factors like your SAT/ACT scores.

That said, I don't know how often they use the AIS over other reviews and this is the first year they've implemented this rule so there are no stats or anything to see how many people they will actually admit without an MCAT. Plus, it's easier to see compare students with a score like an MCAT so it might hurt you even though they say it doesn't.

*I've never seen these studies/correlations but that's what he told us
 
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lavlavs said:
If an applicant does not have an MCAT or your MCAT is not up to par, they use an academic index system which takes into account other factors like your SAT/ACT scores.
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LECOM probably is going to lose its accreditation if this is true.
 
lavlavs said:
So a LECOM admissions guy came to my SMP to talk about the school and he mentioned that LECOM would not longer require the MCAT. This is because they've found that the correlation between doing well on the physical and biological sections of the MCAT and doing well in med school are practically insignificant. And doing well on verbal actually has a negative correlation*. If an applicant does not have an MCAT or your MCAT is not up to par, they use an academic index system which takes into account other factors like your SAT/ACT scores.

That said, I don't know how often they use the AIS over other reviews and this is the first year they've implemented this rule so there are no stats or anything to see how many people they will actually admit without an MCAT. Plus, it's easier to see compare students with a score like an MCAT so it might hurt you even though they say it doesn't.

*I've never seen these studies/correlations but that's what he told us
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Yikes I'm glad I didn't go to LECOM and I think this is a serious concern for those planning on going there.
 
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DoctorSynthesis said:
Yes I read that also. It says MAY though so I interpret that as its at LECOMS discretion and isn't for all applicants. If I'm wrong and they are waiving MCAT I would advise NO one to go to LECOM bradenton.
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Lol. LECOM B is consistently producing med students competitive for residency.

When I was there I was told straight up that the only section of the MCAT that they looked at was Biological sciences because that was the only score that had any correlation to med school success. If they are getting rid of the MCAT requirement...they are doing it for a reason. They are smart and look outside the box to find good med students.
 
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ATL.F.Doc said:
LECOM probably is going to lose its accreditation if this is true.
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This is in no way true. There have been schools in the past that did not/do not require the MCAT, including Datrmouth.
 
j4pac said:
Lol. LECOM B is consistently producing med students competitive for residency.

When I was there I was told straight up that the only section of the MCAT that they looked at was Biological sciences because that was the only score that had any correlation to med school success. If they are getting rid of the MCAT requirement...they are doing it for a reason. They are smart and look outside the box to find good med students.
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It all depends on how many students they are taking w/o MCAT. If it is a large amount it will undoubtly lead to large attrition. Before the MCAT was in place lots of people used to drop out of med school. Once it was in place dropout rates fell dramatically. The MCAT has its flaws but it serves a very valuable purpose and to take it out is a giant mistake.
 
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DoctorSynthesis said:
It all depends on how many students they are taking w/o MCAT. If it is a large amount it will undoubtly lead to large attrition. Before the MCAT was in place lots of people used to drop out of med school. Once it was in place dropout rates fell dramatically. The MCAT has its flaws but it serves a very valuable purpose and to take it out is a giant mistake.
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Agreed. All it takes to get a decent score on the MCAT is a decent amount of studying. Still less than you need to do in medical school to be a good student. Opening the gates for people who haven't proved they've developed good study skills seems like a good way to lower their 4 year graduation rate.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
It all depends on how many students they are taking w/o MCAT. If it is a large amount it will undoubtly lead to large attrition. Before the MCAT was in place lots of people used to drop out of med school. Once it was in place dropout rates fell dramatically. The MCAT has its flaws but it serves a very valuable purpose and to take it out is a giant mistake.
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I'm going to have to disagree. I would imagine that the reason it isn't a requirement is that the new MCAT is being installed and there is lots of debate whether or not the results will have any correlation to med school success. Obviously, LECOM B isn't buying in.

As I said before...the Bio section of the MCAT was the only correlate to med school success in the eyes of LECOM B. If there is no correlate to med school success...then what is the point of valuing its results?

LECOM B has not had an issue with a high attrition rate and their boards are among the best in the country. Do you really think that LECOM B...with its success...has no idea what it's doing?
 
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j4pac said:
I'm going to have to disagree. I would imagine that the reason it isn't a requirement is that the new MCAT is being installed and there is lots of debate whether or not the results will have any correlation to med school success. Obviously, LECOM B isn't buying in.

As I said before...the Bio section of the MCAT was the only correlate to med school success in the eyes of LECOM B. If there is no correlate to med school success...then what is the point of valuing its results?

LECOM B has not had an issue with a high attrition rate and their boards are among the best in the country. Do you really think that LECOM B...with its success...has no idea what it's doing?
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I know your an alumni and have a high opinion on your school. I have met allumni of LECOM B and they seemed to like it also (except rotations). I used to think they knew what they were doing as I even applied there! They seem to be having a great deal of success. However, I would question any school that isn't considering the MCAT. If they wanted to weigh it much less or value a different section I get that. But to not consider at all is a recipe for disaster. It's what carribean schools do! (AUA).

I severely hope that what is on their website is 1) untrue or 2) only in a select few students (like Dartmouth). I actually think they won't admit many students sans MCAT and all will be fine.

As a side note I really think average board scores of a school don't matter. I believe boards are more about the student than the school. Schools also shouldn't teach towards the boards and LECOMS PBL has to be a fit for the student.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
I know your an alumni and have a high opinion on your school. I have met allumni of LECOM B and they seemed to like it also (except rotations). I used to think they knew what they were doing as I even applied there! They seem to be having a great deal of success. However, I would question any school that isn't considering the MCAT. If they wanted to weigh it much less or value a different section I get that. But to not consider at all is a recipe for disaster. It's what carribean schools do! (AUA).

I severely hope that what is on their website is 1) untrue or 2) only in a select few students (like Dartmouth). I actually think they won't admit many students sans MCAT and all will be fine.

As a side note I really think average board scores of a school don't matter. I believe boards are more about the student than the school. Schools also shouldn't teach towards the boards and LECOMS PBL has to be a fit for the student.
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What does LECOM B have to gain by not considering MCAT? They have no problem getting applicants (who apparently do well on the boards and land good residencies).
 
j4pac said:
What does LECOM B have to gain by not considering MCAT? They have no problem getting applicants (who apparently do well on the boards and land good residencies).
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They have nothing to gain which is why I believe that they aren't really getting rid of it.

costales said:
Med School Without the MCAT
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/02/28/mount-sinai-rethinks-medical-school-admissions
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This works because flex med takes only some of the smartest students who would do well on the MCAT anyway.




Really this whole thing about people complaining about standardized tests is annoying. Bunch of cry babies and represents an entitlement attitude. There are legitimate reasons why standardized tests aren't perfect but we need a way of objectively comparing people from varying backgrounds. I don't think the MCAT is the end all be all and an applicant is way more than one test. However, its done a fairly good job of selecting for applicants that are capable of handling a medical education.
 
A lot of folks in combined programs go into medical school without ever taking the MCAT.
 
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Current students aren't in the loop about admissions (or at least I'm not) but I think it might be a temporary thing, while they (and all other schools) are learning to interpret what the new MCAT means. They've been asking for optional SAT/ACT scores for years, so they likely have some data on how those correlate with success, while the new MCAT is a mystery, at least this application cycle. If I had to guess, a good MCAT score will probably still be a stronger application than an absent MCAT score.

Both of these theories are pure speculation on my part.

Edited: autocorrect error
 
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I just forwarded this thread to a friend of mine who is a DO student at LECOM-B and this was her response:

"It wouldn't surprise me at all. I feel like the school has more statisticians than secretaries. During OMSII, they wipp out this magic algorithm that converts your transcript (PBL grades, etc.) into an estimated score on the COMPLEX and many students say it's fairly accurate to the score they end up getting. They also have graphs of the different resources people used to study for the boards and their effectiveness categorized by GPA ranges. In March, LECOM compared our class performance on COMBANK with last year's average (which was a lot higher) and then explicated the reason behind the difference and found out that we were doing significantly poorer in microbiology. Yeah it's really creepy but the info is kinda useful. They have a lot of experience with manipulating large sets of data. Very LECOMish of them to do something like that [for the MCAT requirement]."
 
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jonnythan said:
A lot of folks in combined programs go into medical school without ever taking the MCAT.
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Most combined programs require MCAT. Also (at least in my uni) people in combined programs struggled harder in med/dental school
 
ortnakas said:
Current students aren't in the loop about admissions (or at least I'm not) but I think it might be a temporary thing, while they (and all other schools) are learning to interpret what the new MCAT means. They've been asking for optional SAT/ACT scores for years, so they likely have some data on how those correlate with success, while the new MCAT is a mystery, at least this application system. If I had to guess, a good MCAT score will probably still be a stronger application than an absent MCAT score.

Both of these theories are pure speculation on my part.
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Makes sense to me
 
hey, good for them they aint playing by the AAMC's rules. The MCAT is actually not fun to study for
 
jonnythan said:
A lot of folks in combined programs go into medical school without ever taking the MCAT.
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Yeah there are definitely a few. I remember meeting one who now is a resident who said they wish they had to take the MCAT for their program because they felt their classmates who weren't in the program and had to apply with a MCAT score were better prepared for the Step 1 exam. Although, I know someone else from a program similar to the first person who did very well on the Step 1 exam and was never required to take the MCAT.

I'm skeptical about this though. I know of two people who attended or are attending LECOM. Both had mid 20s on their MCAT and around a 3.3-3.6 GPA.
Not sure how they would factor in the SAT score. I've met a handful of people who got great SAT scores (2100+) who barely got 3.0s in colleges (at public schools, private schools, ivys).
 
Dreamstoo said:
Yeah there are definitely a few. I remember meeting one who now is a resident who said they wish they had to take the MCAT for their program because they felt their classmates who weren't in the program and had to apply with a MCAT score were better prepared for the Step 1 exam. Although, I know someone else from a program similar to the first person who did very well on the Step 1 exam and was never required to take the MCAT.

I'm skeptical about this though. I know of two people who attended or are attending LECOM. Both had mid 20s on their MCAT and around a 3.3-3.6 GPA.
Not sure how they would factor in the SAT score. I've met a handful of people who got great SAT scores (2100+) who barely got 3.0s in colleges (at public schools, private schools, ivys).
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Meh, I think that they should do whatever the heck they want as long as STEP scores are high and as long as their students get residencies.

Speaking as someone preparing to take the MCAT, I hate it.
 
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GypsyHummus said:
Meh, I think that they should do whatever the heck they want as long as STEP scores are high and as long as their students get residencies.

Speaking as someone preparing to take the MCAT, I hate it.
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Me too, I'm sure LECOM knows what they are doing. In my opinion, it's a solid DO for sure. The people I know who graduated there matched at places they were happy with.
 
I welcome this move on the part of LECOM. The only thing is that I did not try very hard on my SAT. But otherwise, I think this should be a thing at more schools.
 
Dreamstoo said:
Yeah there are definitely a few. I remember meeting one who now is a resident who said they wish they had to take the MCAT for their program because they felt their classmates who weren't in the program and had to apply with a MCAT score were better prepared for the Step 1 exam. Although, I know someone else from a program similar to the first person who did very well on the Step 1 exam and was never required to take the MCAT.

I'm skeptical about this though. I know of two people who attended or are attending LECOM. Both had mid 20s on their MCAT and around a 3.3-3.6 GPA.
Not sure how they would factor in the SAT score. I've met a handful of people who got great SAT scores (2100+) who barely got 3.0s in colleges (at public schools, private schools, ivys).
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Good test taking skills and prolonged hard work are 2 different things.
 
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allantois said:
I welcome this move on the part of LECOM. The only thing is that I did not try very hard on my SAT. But otherwise, I think this should be a thing at more schools.
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Same, I barely prepped as much as I could have for the SATs. I took it, did well enough and shrugged lol.
 
WHere did you get this information from? I went to LECOM open house the said the MCAT is the most importance.

The thing that have changed with LECOM is they do not required for DO recommendation. It could be from the MD

Go check your information again pls
 
I welcome this move as well. Problem is no one wants to take a risk and see if people could do well even without taking the MCAT.

I don't mind having an admissions test like the MCAT, if it is actually relevant to medical school. Yet the studies I have seen are so old and are not in detail to make me think the MCAT has that strong of a correlation to "current" medical school success.
 
NickyP86 said:
not sure if I'm going crazy...I decided to hold off on applying til next year since I've yet to take the MCAT ever. I reside in Florida and wanted to go to LECOM in Bradenton since it's close to home. I'm not really in a position to be selective since my stats are not great (after 2 years of grade replacement I pulled it up to 3.1c/3.2s). I'm pretty positive LECOM always required the MCAT on their website til now where it says they'll consider ACT/SAT scores.

Anyone have experience applying without the MCAT? Haha I'm considering applying now but hesitating since I want to make sure I put my best app forward as to not look like a reapplicant.
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That is absolute rubbish, you must take the MCAT to be considered for admission to any medical school in the United States. There are a few schools however who no longer interview applicants and mainly consider the personal statement along with the ECs and LORs in making the decision, I believe MSU is one of them.
 
Seth Joo said:
That is absolute rubbish, you must take the MCAT to be considered for admission to any medical school in the United States. There are a few schools however who no longer interview applicants and mainly consider the personal statement along with the ECs and LORs in making the decision, I believe MSU is one of them.
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No, you don't. Over 30 of my classmates never took the MCAT.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
They have nothing to gain which is why I believe that they aren't really getting rid of it.



This works because flex med takes only some of the smartest students who would do well on the MCAT anyway.




Really this whole thing about people complaining about standardized tests is annoying. Bunch of cry babies and represents an entitlement attitude. There are legitimate reasons why standardized tests aren't perfect but we need a way of objectively comparing people from varying backgrounds. I don't think the MCAT is the end all be all and an applicant is way more than one test. However, its done a fairly good job of selecting for applicants that are capable of handling a medical education.
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I have friends who had 3.8+ GPA in undergrad and multiple published papers etc… who you would probably put all your money on to do well on the MCAT who did not. I'm sure there is a correlation between GPA and MCAT but even so it's not always true.
 
TUVIX said:
I have friends who had 3.8+ GPA in undergrad and multiple published papers etc… who you would probably put all your money on to do well on the MCAT who did not. I'm sure there is a correlation between GPA and MCAT but even so it's not always true.
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There could be many reasons for this. 1) anxiety 2) nonproper preparation 3) GPA inflated due to easy courses 4) easy undergrad institution 5) they might of just had an off day.

That being said med school realize this and evaluate the whole applicant. Overall though the MCAT does a good job of selecting for students who can handle a medical school curriculum and puts everyone on a level playing field. (Or as level as possible)
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
There could be many reasons for this. 1) anxiety 2) nonproper preparation 3) GPA inflated due to easy courses 4) easy undergrad institution 5) they might of just had an off day.

That being said med school realize this and evaluate the whole applicant. Overall though the MCAT does a good job of selecting for students who can handle a medical school curriculum and puts everyone on a level playing field. (Or as level as possible)
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There is a positive correlation, but it's only meaningful to a certain extent. For example, 27-29 MCAT range is not even competitive anymore for MD schools, yet a 3.6 GPA is about the average MD gpa. 92% of med students with 3.6 and a 27-29 MCAT pass step one on their first attempt and 94% finish med school within 5 years. Basically, having over a 30 MCAT doesn't really increase your chances of success that much.

source: https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf
 
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TUVIX said:
There is a positive correlation, but it's only meaningful to a certain extent. For example, 27-29 MCAT range is not even competitive anymore for MD schools, yet a 3.6 GPA is about the average MD gpa. 92% of med students with 3.6 and a 27-29 MCAT pass step one on their first attempt and 94% finish med school within 5 years. Basically, having over a 30 MCAT doesn't really increase your chances of success that much.

source: https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf
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It's my opinion if you scored a 25 or better you will most likely be fine. However, forgoing the MCAT altogether would let in those that will have serious difficulties. I think it's doing those students a disservice.
 
May143 said:
WHere did you get this information from? I went to LECOM open house the said the MCAT is the most importance.

The thing that have changed with LECOM is they do not required for DO recommendation. It could be from the MD

Go check your information again pls
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Check your information. It's listed on their website under entrance requirements.

"In lieu of MCAT Scores, LECOM may use an Academic Index Score that uses undergraduate and graduate GPAs in a formula calculation with ACT and/or SAT Critical Reading and Math scores."
 
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wait wait wait.
LECOM had an open house? Why wasn't I invited?!?!?1
 
I mean.........................
 
To the OP...if you're GPA is on the lower end wouldn't you rather have it be that they care more about the MCAT instead of less?
 
"The College will consider the applicant’s most recent Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores. MCAT scores taken within the past three years are acceptable. A competitive MCAT score for MCATs taken prior to January 2015 is around 27. For MCAT tests taken after January 2015, a competitive score is in the 50 percentile or higher.


In lieu of MCAT Scores, LECOM may use an Academic Index Score that uses undergraduate and graduate GPAs in a formula calculation with ACT and/or SAT Critical Reading and Math scores."


I found that. Hmmm that is why I met some girl that she said she got accepted while she was not finish her semester and has not taken the MCAT.

Good for some students who have been working great on their study.
 
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