LECOM DSP vs PBL

[ortnakas]

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Let's be clear about the PBL curriculum a little bit. You don't learn just about the cases.

THIS. A really common misconception is that we ONLY learn through the cases... even my own mother still believes this is how PBL works, and I'm in my fourth semester of PBL now. We discuss the case with our group and the facilitator, and Final Learning Issues are picked based on the case (in first year, anyway-- second year is more about blasting through Robbins), but we're ultimately learning from and tested on the textbooks.

Sounding like a 2nd yr much?

I've watched so much Pathoma on 2X in the last 24 hours that regular voices sound painfully slow.

 

[GOHOGS!]

Dang, that is a ton of reading! Thanks for the info hallowmann and ortnakas ! To be clear, I really don't mind reading to get info. I just like to use other resources to learn some of it too. I've come to find that after a while of reading, I lose concentration and don't learn very well. It sound like maybe DSP or LDP might be the better pathway for me. I get very distracted, after a while, if I don't have a resource that hits the main points. That being said, I do have a very persistent work ethic. I feel I would be able to keep myself accountable on keeping up with my studies. Any suggestions based on that? Thanks guys!

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

I get the feeling that DSP students get more FaceTime with faculty. What does a DSP module look like? Care to attach a pdf of a sample few pages (even if it's blank)?

Do both PBL and DSP students have similar BoardScores?

 

[UnoMas]

The module is just a list of objectives to guide your reading from the assigned chapters. Your undergrad power points usually have those objectives listed at the beginning of all the slides, it's the same thing. Nothing special. Sometimes at the end of the module, there is an addendum with all the extra information you need to know for the exam, which cannot be found in the assigned textbooks.
Face time with faculty is overrated. As you progress through medical school, you will soon realize that board review books and FirstAid are your best friends. For DSP, we have access to the same faculty that LDP has access to but rarely I ever find that helpful.

DSP is not a perfect pathway but I would pick it again if I had to, not having to sit in lectures for 5 6 hours a day is a HUGE deal. Let me list out all the cons for you upfront so you can decide if you want it for yourself. Some of these cons are really my personal cons, not really specific to the pathway or LECOM

1. You don't get as much freedom as you think you will. There are random administrative crap that they will make you show up for. You would think they would leave you alone to study and all you have to do is showing up for exams/quizzes. However, it's still better than being in LDP.

2. Wednesday 8 am 1 hour OPP lecture then nothing for the rest of the day. (if you are an early riser, then this will not be a cons for you, but I usually get up at 10 and having to dress up and show up for just 1 hour of class at 8 am is annoying to me)

3. Random mandatory crap in the middle of the day that you will have to show up for. This is probably my personal cons. I don't know about you but when I study I want a block of 6 7 hours of uninterrupted time. Their random mandatory meeting at 11 am or 1 pm breaks up my day and messes up my routine.

4. LDP is LECOM #1 priority. DSP is so far down their list, sometimes I feel like I am a Pharmacy student. All your things will be scheduled around their schedule, this includes faculty availability for your meetings, exam time etc. On a few occasions, we have exams scheduled so close together for no reason while our calendar is wide open for the next 4 5 days.

5. Make a friend in LDP and get their lectures. We just started system but for cores, all the lecture power points are high-yield. They keep scolding us for using the LDP lectures and not the module for our study and then turn around and use all the LDP test questions for our exams. I don't know if this will still be the same for systems. Some of the objectives in the module are super vague and you can either give a 2 sentence answer or a 5 pages explanation. We addressed this issue in one of the meetings, they told us "big picture only" then low and behold, they tested us on really specific details that are highlighted in the LDP lectures. This won't matter as much if you just focus on studying for the board and don't care what grade you got for your classes. Some modules are good, some are really just there to hinder your learning process. Some meetings are super helpful, some are just time that I will never get back.

6. Everything in DSP seems to be really last-minute. The night before biostats paper that you have to read for tomorrow exam. The night before announcement that there will be an extra 40 questions on Anatomy on your tomorrow exam. If you are a crammer (I DO NOT suggest you cram for medical school), you are probably going to die

7. Lack of communication. Will there be a quiz at the next meeting? Will the 2nd exam be comprehensive? Will there be core competency biochemistry questions on our next MSK exam? Do we need to buy additional books for the next part of our module? nobody knows

These are the few that I can think of right now. That being said, I would still say DSP is the best pathway that LECOM has to offer. We have 2 4-day weekends back to back this week. I don't think I can survive the hell that LDP has to go through everyday and all the uncertainties in PBL. I am grateful to be where I am right now but there is definitely room for improvement in this pathway.

Personally, I can never do PBL. It's just too much freedom for me and I don't like the small group setting. Additionally, I heard grades are curved among the small group, only 2 3 people get A, but don't quote me on it. If that's true then that just defeats the purpose of the whole "collaboration" idea promoted by PBL. The PBL peeps in this thread can address that rumor. You get 20+ credits each semester for 1 PBL class and that consists of 3 4 big PBL exams. That's scary. If you didn't do well on 1 or 2 exams, the risk of failing is real. There are quite a few ex-PBL people from SH, BD and Erie in LDP right now remediating their first year.

 

[ortnakas]

Personally, I can never do PBL. It's just too much freedom for me and I don't like the small group setting. Additionally, I heard grades are curved among the small group, only 2 3 people get A, but don't quote me on it. If that's true then that just defeats the purpose of the whole "collaboration" idea promoted by PBL. The PBL peeps in this thread can address that rumor. You get 20+ credits each semester for 1 PBL class and that consists of 3 4 big PBL exams. That's scary. If you didn't do well on 1 or 2 exams, the risk of failing is real. There are quite a few ex-PBL people from SH, BD and Erie in LDP right now remediating their first year.

I've heard the small group curve rumor before, and while I'm at Seton Hill and maybe things are different, I don't buy it. I think only a few people per group get an A because getting an A is REALLY HARD.

I can confirm that it's scary having 20+ credits of your grade come down to 3 exams, but I'd personally hate having an exam every week like LDP, so you can argue that both ways.

Edit: undoing autocorrect

 

[paintballguy]

Former PBL Lecom Erie here. PBL tests are not scaled. After each test we would go over the answers 2 hrs later, so I would know my exact score, barring dropped/unfair questions, which can only improve your score. Your test is unique to the reading your small group of 8 assigned to yourselves in the textbooks. Most groups' tests will be similar, though not exactly the same, as every group has the same fake patient cases and should theoretically have assigned themselves very similar readings aka learning issues. I can't speak for current PBL and ISP (DSP) students, but my year PBL did very well on boards, lots of 600+ scores. I could probably list 10ppl right off the bat out of 40 students in the PBL class. PBL always and forever!!

 

[GOHOGS!]

Do DSP. You'll likely get frustrated with PBL. As a self-directed learner, you'll probably also get frustrated with mandatory lectures in LDP. My understanding is that all the students start out together but then diverge after the first few months or so. It's also easy to go from DSP or PBL to LDP but not the other way around. Honestly, as a CA resident, only reason I would choose this school would be for low COA and COL. If this was the only school I got into, I don't even know if I would attend. I knew all the negatives going into my interview, but I still have waaaay to many reservations about it, even with the board pass rates and residency placements.

Thanks for the help! The more I get to know about the pathways, the more I feel like DSP suits me best. Why specifically do you think lecom isn't the best med school to go to? I do like that they are cheap. Does lecom not have good residency placements? Or is it their rotations that aren't good? I was under the impression that lecom was overall a pretty good med school.Thanks for the input!


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[Dharma]

Thanks for the help! The more I get to know about the pathways, the more I feel like DSP suits me best. Why specifically do you think lecom isn't the best med school to go to? I do like that they are cheap. Does lecom not have good residency placements? Or is it their rotations that aren't good? I was under the impression that lecom was overall a pretty good med school.Thanks for the input!


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Don't ask the guy whose only take on the place is hearsay and interview day. (Especially when stating "If this was the only school I got into, I don't even know if I would attend."). Take word from the folks who have actually been students there and experienced the ups and downs. It's a fine school. Does it have its issues? Most definitely (mostly the authoritative culture that predominates and the juju that vibe brings and spreads... which needs a bit of healing to improve and reach its true potential. I digress...). But it offers more than enough to get you where you need to be.

FWIW, on the interview trail a PD from a respected university allopathic program commented on how she is "very confident in the graduates LECOM produces." I think that says a lot more about the caliber of LECOM grads in her program than anything else (and her ability to pick them) but still.

Back to the main topic. DSP. All the way. A nice balance between the hell that must-be LDP and what seems like a bit disorganized and risky PBL. DSP will allow you the time to read instead of just being a power-point junkie but offers a bit of guidance as well. Plus, you can work with a team of chosen colleagues and benefit from the group effect. On top of that, the directors of DSP are probably two of the coolest and best educators in Erie. PM me if you have any more questions.

EDIT: to answer your questions: residency placement good (for DO school). rotations range from excellent to poor, but even those called 'poor' by rumor have a lot to offer in terms of hands-on experience, for the go-getter that is. The lazy suffer (and don't realize it).

 

[UnoMas]

The point of my previous post is to point out what I perceive as cons from my point of view for DSP. It's important for incoming students to learn about both the upsides and downsides of the pathway so they can make an appropriate decision for themselves. Like I mentioned, if I had to pick again for a thousand times, still DSP every time.

LECOM is a fine school, you are getting the best bang for your bucks. I doubt all other schools are perfect in every single way. I compared notes with my friends, who are first years at other MD and DO schools and I feel confident that the education that I am getting is on par with, and on certain subjects, slightly better than other schools. You will graduate as a competent physician from LECOM.

I agree with Dharma's assessment of the DSP pathway. It has the best of both worlds (LDP and PBL). You have the option to work on your own or collaborate with others, and you get to pick the others (not assigned like PBL). The pathway directors are cool and receptive to feedbacks, if you have any issues, come talk to them directly and they will work it out with you.

Notice how most of the anti-LECOMers are non-LECOM students, which is rather strange. I mean, you don't even go here but you know so much and you speak with such authority. Talk to current/past students to get the most accurate information so you can make an informed decision.

 

[ortnakas]

I agree with the two posts above. I'm a fan of PBL, but it sounds like it wouldn't be a good fit for you. Choose LDP if being provided study materials is more valuable to you, and choose DSP if you more value being self-directed.

I feel like I'm getting a solid education.

Having said that, one of LECOM's goals is providing medical education at a reasonable price, and while they're successful at that (major perk!), the downside is that you lose a lot of bells and whistles that come with some other schools. Those things are important to some applicants (most of the people who say they interviewed here but wouldn't choose it). LECOM also has a lot more rules than a lot of schools in regards to things like the dress code and eating on campus, but if you can behave like an adult, it's really rarely an issue.

 

[ortnakas]

@popegope428-- I'm okay with people going to the interview and deciding the school wouldn't be a good fit. Fit's important, and you're entitled to your opinion. If it's not for you, that's fine.

What irks me (and I think most of the people who responded to your earlier post) are the dramatic claims about how students' rights are somehow infringed upon by being required to leave coffee outside and follow a dress code-- requirements that are annoying but not actually unreasonable-- and that the the rules somehow imply we're getting an inferior education.

 

[GOHOGS!]

I agree with the two posts above. I'm a fan of PBL, but it sounds like it wouldn't be a good fit for you. Choose LDP if being provided study materials is more valuable to you, and choose DSP if you more value being self-directed.

I feel like I'm getting a solid education.

Having said that, one of LECOM's goals is providing medical education at a reasonable price, and while they're successful at that (major perk!), the downside is that you lose a lot of bells and whistles that come with some other schools. Those things are important to some applicants (most of the people who say they interviewed here but wouldn't choose it). LECOM also has a lot more rules than a lot of schools in regards to things like the dress code and eating on campus, but if you can behave like an adult, it's really rarely an issue.

Yeah I feel like PBL may not fit me the best. This is unfortunate because I prefer the weather down south. I guess doing what will help me learn the material best is most important haha! The price of LECOM is one of the major benefits for me. I really don't care about the extras, especially if it means I'm going to have to spend tens of thousands of more dollars. I also don't mind the strictness of the dress code, food and drink in class, etc... I really like that LECOM has so many different places you can do your rotations. I did have a question on the whole DO vs MD thing. I like the DO philosophy and its fairly important to me to save time and money by missing a year of college(due to being in lecom's 3+4 year program). That being said, I think my GPA would be on par to give me the opportunity to get into some MD and DO schools alike. Do you guys think that going to a DO school would limit the residencies I can do? I just wanted to get you guys' take on it because I'm sure you guys have a better feel for the residency placement than I do. Thanks for the help!

 

[Dharma]

Do you guys think that going to a DO school would limit the residencies I can do? I just wanted to get you guys' take on it because I'm sure you guys have a better feel for the residency placement than I do. Thanks for the help!

Yes. DO will limit your opportunities if you're considering allopathic residencies, regardless of what anyone may tell you. A department chair on the interview trail even told me something along the lines of "Your scores and application are excellent. You would have a very good chance at elite programs if it were not for the initials that will follow your name." (He was a former chair at one of these programs just a couple of years earlier).

That said, even will such limitations, there is a whole lot of opportunity across the board. Things will be more competitive in years to come. AMG numbers are on the rise as are DO. I imagine that it will be a tight fit, to say the least. If all other factors are equal, go MD.

As far as the DO philosophy goes, I'm of the opinion that not only is such philosophy far from ubiquitous (actually quite rare unfortunately) amongst practicing clinicians, but it is not exclusive to DOs. IMO, it's simply good practice. I do feel that I developed a nice little skill set with OMM, but that was more because of a particular rotation with an OMM doc than it was due to those tortuous labs I sat through (which turn more people off to OMM than one would imagine). So, don't let the philosophy thing hold too much sway, unless you are well read in OMM and really feel that it is something you want to do. (I know a few docs who went the distance with OMM and are doing quite well for themselves in terms of both professional and financial success but that's another story for another day).

 

[GOHOGS!]

Yes. DO will limit your opportunities if you're considering allopathic residencies, regardless of what anyone may tell you. A department chair on the interview trail even told me something along the lines of "Your scores and application are excellent. You would have a very good chance at elite programs if it were not for the initials that will follow your name." (He was a former chair at one of these programs just a couple of years earlier).

That said, even will such limitations, there is a whole lot of opportunity across the board. Things will be more competitive in years to come. AMG numbers are on the rise as are DO. I imagine that it will be a tight fit, to say the least. If all other factors are equal, go MD.

As far as the DO philosophy goes, I'm of the opinion that not only is such philosophy far from ubiquitous (actually quite rare unfortunately) amongst practicing clinicians, but it is not exclusive to DOs. IMO, it's simply good practice. I do feel that I developed a nice little skill set with OMM, but that was more because of a particular rotation with an OMM doc than it was due to those tortuous labs I sat through (which turn more people off to OMM than one would imagine). So, don't let the philosophy thing hold too much sway, unless you are well read in OMM and really feel that it is something you want to do. (I know a few docs who went the distance with OMM and are doing quite well for themselves in terms of both professional and financial success but that's another story for another day).

Ok, thank you for the information. I'm not quite sure what to do then. Would you say it's worth an extra year of undergrad, getting LOR, doing lots of research, shadowing, taking the MCAT, etc. in order to do an MD medical school? I really do like what I've seen from LECOM, but if going there will limit the residencies then maybe going down a different path would be best.

 

[jordansetron]

Ok, thank you for the information. I'm not quite sure what to do then. Would you say it's worth an extra year of undergrad, getting LOR, doing lots of research, shadowing, taking the MCAT, etc. in order to do an MD medical school? I really do like what I've seen from LECOM, but if going there will limit the residencies then maybe going down a different path would be best.

This is a topic that has been covered at great length on these forums but I'll give you the highlights.

-Going to an MD school will not improve your physician training, but it will make it significantly easier to land "competitive" residencies
-The benefit of waiting another year is simply the OPPORTUNITY to apply again with no guarantee of acceptance.
-A year off means a year of lost income.
-Turning down an acceptance means that you will be blackballed from that school and rumor has it most other schools that award the same degree. (i.e. turning down a DO acceptance hurts your chances of getting into another DO program the next year significantly)
-Although the bias against DOs is deteriorating, there will be some programs that wont even consider you as a DO. These programs tend to be be in some of the more competitive residencies but also constitute the minority of residencies.
-Getting an MD DOES NOT mean you can just waltz into whatever residency you want. There is insane competition all over the place.

Did I miss anything?

 

[GOHOGS!]

This is a topic that has been covered at great length on these forums but I'll give you the highlights.

-Going to an MD school will not improve your physician training, but it will make it significantly easier to land "competitive" residencies
-The benefit of waiting another year is simply the OPPORTUNITY to apply again with no guarantee of acceptance.
-A year off means a year of lost income.
-Turning down an acceptance means that you will be blackballed from that school and rumor has it most other schools that award the same degree. (i.e. turning down a DO acceptance hurts your chances of getting into another DO program the next year significantly)
-Although the bias against DOs is deteriorating, there will be some programs that wont even consider you as a DO. These programs tend to be be in some of the more competitive residencies but also constitute the minority of residencies.
-Getting an MD DOES NOT mean you can just waltz into whatever residency you want. There is insane competition all over the place.

Did I miss anything?

Thank you! That's the main thing I want to avoid. I really do like LECOM and from all the info I can gather it seems like they offer a really good education. It seems like it would be dumb to throw away a med school I think I'd really enjoy(that's also reasonably priced). That being said, I wouldn't want to limit anything by not doing all that I could. Thanks for your help!


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[Dharma]

Ok, thank you for the information. I'm not quite sure what to do then. Would you say it's worth an extra year of undergrad, getting LOR, doing lots of research, shadowing, taking the MCAT, etc. in order to do an MD medical school? I really do like what I've seen from LECOM, but if going there will limit the residencies then maybe going down a different path would be best.

Trust your gut. If you could get into an MD program that you would be happy at, the year is worth it. However, like the other dude above said, if you turn down an acceptance, you can pretty much forget about landing a spot there next year at that particular program. I don't think it will hurt your chances at places you didn't apply to though.

The residency programs that screen out DOs or prefer MDs are MUCH more than I originally anticipated as a M1/M2. FWIW, I'm going into psychiatry (a traditionally non-competitive field), took both Steps of the USMLE (and did well), stomped the COMLEX, and there were places that didn't give me the time of day (and I'm not talking about the Columbias and Cornells because I knew they were on lockdown already). So even in psych, $hit is tight.

Search the forum... lots of threads about this topic. LECOM is a fine school. You will have much opportunity to excel if you attend there. But like I said, at the end of the day, trust your gut youngblood.

 

[jordansetron]

Trust your gut. If you could get into an MD program that you would be happy at, the year is worth it. However, like the other dude above said, if you turn down an acceptance, you can pretty much forget about landing a spot there next year at that particular program. I don't think it will hurt your chances at places you didn't apply to though.

The residency programs that screen out DOs or prefer MDs are MUCH more than I originally anticipated as a M1/M2. FWIW, I'm going into psychiatry (a traditionally non-competitive field), took both Steps of the USMLE (and did well), stomped the COMLEX, and there were places that didn't give me the time of day (and I'm not talking about the Columbias and Cornells because I knew they were on lockdown already). So even in psych, $hit is tight.

Search the forum... lots of threads about this topic. LECOM is a fine school. You will have much opportunity to excel if you attend there. But like I said, at the end of the day, trust your gut youngblood.

This is a great point. A year is just time. Its not like your life will stop for 365 days. But you'll be expected to be doing something to enhance your app during that time, something that may not be fun. The thing about not being able to get into other programs is just a rumor and there are only anecdotes to support it, but I think there is some kind of system in place set up among the schools that you apply to where they know if you were accepted somewhere and chose not to attend.

I'm sorry to hear that some of those programs were passing you over. Do you think its getting better or worse for DOs as far as generalized bias by some of these programs? The numbers indicates its getting better all the time but the sentiment on SDN seems to be the opposite.

 

[BinderClip]

Thank you! That's the main thing I want to avoid. I really do like LECOM and from all the info I can gather it seems like they offer a really good education. It seems like it would be dumb to throw away a med school I think I'd really enjoy(that's also reasonably priced). That being said, I wouldn't want to limit anything by not doing all that I could. Thanks for your help!


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Although this has already been stated, I hope this helps - I agree that you will face a glass ceiling when it comes to competitive residencies. It's not a matter of discrimination - it's just that these programs have so many excellent candidates to choose from based on those candidates' school names and opportunities (research and leadership opportunities). However, the question I would wager to you is this: Do you feel that you have a desire to pursue these top flight residencies over the potential cost of a lost year of salary?

If the desire to be "the best" is of utmost importance to you and that rubbing shoulders with the greats is necessary, go for it. If you're deadset on a specialty and need access to those fellowship/competitive residency opportunities, it may be worth your time. Does the need to do some kind of specialty research pique your interest? Etc etc. When you wager your sure-fire position, what do you hope to achieve by doing so?

However, if you feel like you're going to lack in education or boards scores as a result of going to a DO school, I'd argue that you're putting too much weight on the school and not enough weight on your own work ethic. The hidden cost of medical school is in the debt - interest never sleeps. It does, however, compound. Furthermore, you're not losing a 1 year of your youth. You're losing out on one year of attending level pay before retirement. One more year of putting your life on hold while you try to enhance your application when there's an army of candidates who are looking to do the same thing. Ultimately, you have to weigh the cost of mounting interest and a hold on your life over the possibility of achieving your absolute potential.

Only you know your application and life goals. Just my $0.02. Cheers!

 

[jordansetron]

Although this has already been stated, I hope this helps - I agree that you will face a glass ceiling when it comes to competitive residencies. It's not a matter of discrimination - it's just that these programs have so many excellent candidates to choose from based on those candidates' school names and opportunities (research and leadership opportunities). However, the question I would wager to you is this: Do you feel that you have a desire to pursue these top flight residencies over the potential cost of a lost year of salary?

If the desire to be "the best" is of utmost importance to you and that rubbing shoulders with the greats is necessary, go for it. If you're deadset on a specialty and need access to those fellowship/competitive residency opportunities, it may be worth your time. Does the need to do some kind of specialty research pique your interest? Etc etc. When you wager your sure-fire position, what do you hope to achieve by doing so?

However, if you feel like you're going to lack in education or boards scores as a result of going to a DO school, I'd argue that you're putting too much weight on the school and not enough weight on your own work ethic. The hidden cost of medical school is in the debt - interest never sleeps. It does, however, compound. Furthermore, you're not losing a 1 year of your youth. You're losing out on one year of attending level pay before retirement. One more year of putting your life on hold while you try to enhance your application when there's an army of candidates who are looking to do the same thing. Ultimately, you have to weigh the cost of mounting interest and a hold on your life over the possibility of achieving your absolute potential.

Only you know your application and life goals. Just my $0.02. Cheers!

I agree with most of what BinderClip is saying. But it is a matter of discrimination when DO applications are not even looked at though. There are tons of top flight applicants to choose from for sure, but to not even glance at an individuals application because of the word "Osteopathic" is at the very least prejudiced and would not be considered bias, but outright discrimination. On the other hand, if those applications were looked at and then subsequently deemed not as competitive as the others for the "school names and opportunities" mentioned, then that would simply be bias, which exists at all levels in some way. It is important to realize that you could be objectively be the best applicant that applied to a program and not be extended an interview because your app went straight to the garbage can.

 

[GOHOGS!]

OK, thank you guys for shedding some light on my situation. It sounds like even though the DO bias might be getting better, there is still some issues there. I think maybe I should take the MCAT and see how I do on it before I make any decisions. The problem is if I get a good score I won't really know what to do. Part of me thinks avoiding the DO bias is worth the extra year of schools, but then again I really don't care too much about the residency I end up in being "elite". I just would like the residency I end up in to be in a field that I want to be in. Thanks for the help!

 

[Z-Qualizer]

Can we please keep this thread on the topic of "LECOM DSP vs PBL"? This is a unique topic, and there are already TONS of DO vs. MD threads. Thanks!

 

[GOHOGS!]

Can we please keep this thread on the topic of "LECOM DSP vs PBL"? This is a unique topic, and there are already TONS of DO vs. MD threads. Thanks!

You're right! Sorry for bringing the discussion to a conversation for a different thread!

 

[TheOther]

I honestly feel like PBL/DSP are more similar than different, especially compared to LDP. Both require a lot of discipline, and individuals from each will swear by their own pathway - meaning both work well. Even between PBL and DSP students who are friends, one can't REALLY know what the other pathway is like without going through the grind of it.

One thing to always remember is that success in med school is heavily based on what you make of it. As long as you have the work ethic and determination, whether it's PBL or DSP, you can adapt. You can learn how to study. You can make it work. Overall, both pathways produce excellent board scores and eventual physicians.

 

[GOHOGS!]

Which of the two pathways are more group oriented outside of class? Also, are the amount of time spent in class similar?

 

[TheOther]

What do you mean by group oriented? And it varies week to week, but overall, it seems like both pathways spend similar amounts of time in class.

 

[jakd]

Don't ask the guy whose only take on the place is hearsay and interview day. (Especially when stating "If this was the only school I got into, I don't even know if I would attend."). Take word from the folks who have actually been students there and experienced the ups and downs. It's a fine school. Does it have its issues? Most definitely (mostly the authoritative culture that predominates and the juju that vibe brings and spreads... which needs a bit of healing to improve and reach its true potential. I digress...). But it offers more than enough to get you where you need to be.

FWIW, on the interview trail a PD from a respected university allopathic program commented on how she is "very confident in the graduates LECOM produces." I think that says a lot more about the caliber of LECOM grads in her program than anything else (and her ability to pick them) but still.

Back to the main topic. DSP. All the way. A nice balance between the hell that must-be LDP and what seems like a bit disorganized and risky PBL. DSP will allow you the time to read instead of just being a power-point junkie but offers a bit of guidance as well. Plus, you can work with a team of chosen colleagues and benefit from the group effect. On top of that, the directors of DSP are probably two of the coolest and best educators in Erie. PM me if you have any more questions.

EDIT: to answer your questions: residency placement good (for DO school). rotations range from excellent to poor, but even those called 'poor' by rumor have a lot to offer in terms of hands-on experience, for the go-getter that is. The lazy suffer (and don't realize it).

I know this is an old thread. But I am considering applying to LECOM DSP. Can anyone tell me how frequently you are *required* to be on campus? I know Aug - Dec of the first year it is pretty much everyday, but what is the reaming time like. I prefer this route to have the extra time to study vs. watching lecture and power pints all day. Thanks for any feedback!

 

[Promethean]

I know this is an old thread. But I am considering applying to LECOM DSP. Can anyone tell me how frequently you are *required* to be on campus? I know Aug - Dec of the first year it is pretty much everyday, but what is the reaming time like. I prefer this route to have the extra time to study vs. watching lecture and power pints all day. Thanks for any feedback!

A lot less than LDP, but still expect to need to go to school for something or other basically every day, at least 4 days a week. Like, I spend at least an hour on campus, and sometimes up to 6-8, virtually every day. There will be a lab that must be attended, or an OPP lecture, or a DSP meeting. There are almost no weeks where I have more than one weekday with nothing scheduled on it at all.

All that time isn't free time, though. We are responsible for as much material as LDP, and we don't have the benefit of having it all neatly packaged into power points for us, like LDP. DSP means investing a lot of time up front to go through the text books and pull out the information that is relevant to the system we are in, before you can get down to the business of really going through it. You can't just borrow the LDP powerpoints, either, because our objectives in the modules aren't exactly the same as theirs all the time.

Don't get me wrong... I love DSP. But the idea that we have more time is really relative, and you still need to plan to use that time very wisely.

 

[MedicineMan99]

I graduated from LECOM-Erie a few years ago. I went to a highly ranked Family Medicine dual program in Chicago. Now I'm a family medicine attending.

I was DSP before it was DSP (it used to be called ISP). Definitely do it. It saves a ton of time and it's way more efficient. Also, I didn't read text books that much, I just studied from completed objectives and used textbooks as a supplement.

I agree LECOM is a fine school. But no medical school turns you into a "competent physician". Medical school's job is to give you the opportunity to become a physician during residency. Residency is what turns you into a physician. So, your goal should always be to get into a great residency.

 

[sso_blasted87]

I graduated from LECOM-Erie a few years ago. I went to a highly ranked Family Medicine dual program in Chicago. Now I'm a family medicine attending.

I was DSP before it was DSP (it used to be called ISP). Definitely do it. It saves a ton of time and it's way more efficient. Also, I didn't read text books that much, I just studied from completed objectives and used textbooks as a supplement.

I agree LECOM is a fine school. But no medical school turns you into a "competent physician". Medical school's job is to give you the opportunity to become a physician during residency. Residency is what turns you into a physician. So, your goal should always be to get into a great residency.

How did you get the completed objectives?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Since SDN loves its tiers do much, lets tier lecoms.

Top tier:
PBL at seton hill

Low tier:
PBL at Erie

Every other option is a mistake.

 

[TheOther]

Top tier:
PBL at seton hill

Low tier:
PBL at Erie

Why?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Why?

Let me start by saying wow, didn't realize this was an old thread.

Seton hill and Erie have access to the same sites up north for third year. Contrary to popular opinion on SDN, 3rd year options for those two campuses are actually better than a lot of DO schools. Preference for seton hill over Erie is largely due to location. Erie is brutal in the winter. Also, and this is just my n=1 experience, seton hill students don't seem to have the same/as many complaints as Erie's when it comes to the administration.

PBL>>>>LDP. Much more free time. It always sounds like the LDP crowd doesn't even have time to sleep. I'd only do LDP if it was my only option. DSP seemed overwhelming to me, but I never seriously considered it and probably shouldn't have commented on it given how little research I've put into it. Their 3 year primary care pathway and PA -->DO bridge are both pretty good for the right kind of candidate and I wasn't considering them in my previous post.

The problems at lecom b have been extensively discussed already. No need to rehash.

 

[TheOther]

Let me start by saying wow, didn't realize this was an old thread.

Seton hill and Erie have access to the same sites up north for third year. Contrary to popular opinion on SDN, 3rd year options for those two campuses are actually better than a lot of DO schools. Preference for seton hill over Erie is largely due to location. Erie is brutal in the winter. Also, and this is just my n=1 experience, seton hill students don't seem to have the same/as many complaints as Erie's when it comes to the administration.

PBL>>>>LDP. Much more free time. It always sounds like the LDP crowd doesn't even have time to sleep. I'd only do LDP if it was my only option. DSP seemed overwhelming to me, but I never seriously considered it and probably shouldn't have commented on it given how little research I've put into it. Their 3 year primary care pathway and PA -->DO bridge are both pretty good for the right kind of candidate and I wasn't considering them in my previous post.

The problems at lecom b have been extensively discussed already. No need to rehash.

Haha yeah, old thread.

In my opinion, I'm glad I'm at Erie rather than Seton Hill. I heard through the grapevine that Seton Hill had a ton of "alpha" students so y'all had a headache with site selections, especially with the caveats they gave us this year. And while we all have access to the same locations, the amount of spots available per site is proportional to the sizes of each campus. This made it favorable for me and where I wanted to go. And as an Erie PBL student, life really isn't that bad even when it comes to administration. Erie admin has the final say for both campuses so being here, I felt like we could voice our concerns more tangibly and get results (relatively) quickly, whether it's what we wanted or not.

That said, I'm sure Seton Hill is great. And I can't wait to get out of here in a couple months haha.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Haha yeah, old thread.

In my opinion, I'm glad I'm at Erie rather than Seton Hill. I heard through the grapevine that Seton Hill had a ton of "alpha" students so y'all had a headache with site selections, especially with the caveats they gave us this year. And while we all have access to the same locations, the amount of spots available per site is proportional to the sizes of each campus. This made it favorable for me and where I wanted to go. And as an Erie PBL student, life really isn't that bad even when it comes to administration. Erie admin has the final say for both campuses so being here, I felt like we could voice our concerns more tangibly and get results (relatively) quickly, whether it's what we wanted or not.

That said, I'm sure Seton Hill is great. And I can't wait to get out of here in a couple months haha.

Full disclosure, I am not a student at either campus. I was accepted and very nearly matriculated. Going through the post acceptance pre-matriculation process just kept setting off alarm bells in my brain. I kept thinking "Why are they so mad at me? I'm going to be a student there. What's the problem?" I'm glad admin didn't crush your spirit into the dirt, but it was becoming increasingly clear that would have been the case for me no matter which campus I attended.

You bring up good points, but it's still seton hill > Erie in my book. Lake effect snow...

 

[TheOther]

Full disclosure, I am not a student at either campus. I was accepted and very nearly matriculated. Going through the post acceptance pre-matriculation process just kept setting off alarm bells in my brain. I kept thinking "Why are they so mad at me? I'm going to be a student there. What's the problem?" I'm glad admin didn't crush your spirit into the dirt, but it was becoming increasingly clear that would have been the case for me no matter which campus I attended.

You bring up good points, but it's still seton hill > Erie in my book. Lake effect snow...

Haha fair enough. The good thing is the past 2 winters have been mild, from what I hear.

 

[MedicineMan99]

How did you get the completed objectives?

They were always floating around. Or, classmates divided and conquered.

 

[ortnakas]

Seton hill and Erie have access to the same sites up north for third year. Contrary to popular opinion on SDN, 3rd year options for those two campuses are actually better than a lot of DO schools. Preference for seton hill over Erie is largely due to location. Erie is brutal in the winter. Also, and this is just my n=1 experience, seton hill students don't seem to have the same/as many complaints as Erie's when it comes to the administration.

Seton Hill is a little bit more... sheltered from administration. The same rules apply, but it's a little more relaxed about the little things, like snowboots in the building in the winter are fine, and depending on the facilitator you can get away with water in PBL. The flip side of this is that if we ever did actually need something from administration, it was trickier to get. My class (2018) was fine with site selections, but I did hear things got complicated for the 2019 SH class.