LECOM-E vs. LMU-DCOM

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TUVIX

TUVIX

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Having to make this decision in the next two days as my deposit would be due at LMU soon. Really liked LMU but feeling LECOM is a better fit location-wise and cost wise. Just wanted to see if anyone on here has any new or profound advice with this decision. Thoughts?
 
TUVIX said:
I was accepted into the DSP which actually is big for me because I think my learning style doesn't work with lectures all day.
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Option 1: Attend all-day lectures in stiff professional attire with no available food or water.
Option 2: Listen to online lectures while chilling at home/lib totally unrestricted.

I can totally understand your decision.

Btw do you know if PCSP is combined with the traditional pathways or if it ends up being something totally separate? Apparently they don't decide on it until 3mos after the first sem starts, so I'm assuming you have to already be in one of the pathways before they make the decision. Hence I'd think it's either you combine the PCSP with the existing pathway you had, or you just totally switch to PCSP. I feel like having a hybrid would make sense; like DSP+PCSP/PBL+PCSP is totally possible, right? Dunno how they end up doing it though.
 
docycle said:
Option 1: Attend all-day lectures in stiff professional attire with no available food or water.
Option 2: Listen to online lectures while chilling at home/lib totally unrestricted.

I can totally understand your decision.

Btw do you know if PCSP is combined with the traditional pathways or if it ends up being something totally separate? Apparently they don't decide on it until 3mos after the first sem starts, so I'm assuming you have to already be in one of the pathways before they make the decision. Hence I'd think it's either you combine the PCSP with the existing pathway you had, or you just totally switch to PCSP. I feel like having a hybrid would make sense; like DSP+PCSP/PBL+PCSP is totally possible, right? Dunno how they end up doing it though.
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I'm not sure about pcsp. I think the difference is mostly in the clinical part. Also in DSP you don't stream lectures. As far as I know LECOM doesn't record lectures. You use learning objective to study from text books and small group modules.
 
TUVIX said:
I'm not sure about pcsp. I think the difference is mostly in the clinical part. Also in DSP you don't stream lectures. As far as I know LECOM doesn't record lectures. You use learning objective to study from text books and small group modules.
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Ah my b. Would the bolded be like mini-PBL?
 
PCSP is combined with DSP - so essentially, you are DSP for the first two years.

and no, it's not like a mini-PBL. You get a document of objectives you fill out/use as a guide when you read the books. There are a few "lectures" but in years past, those have only been for micro.
 
I would choose LMU. It really seemed phenomenal when I interviewed there. But then again, it's so dramatically rural that I think you need to decide if you can handle such an environment. To some, it's their niche. But others can't stand it.
 
petyr_baelish said:
How onerous is it to read textbooks to fill out the objectives? Do you have to read the entire chapter or can you quickly locate the testable material?
Do any DSP students have trouble locating the important information?
How long does it take to fill out those objectives?
Sorry for all the questions but there isn't much info about DSP on this forum.
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It does take quite a bit of time. I think the majority of my class split into "module groups" - we had like 7-10 people (don't remember the exact number) in our group. We split up the module into ~equal parts, each filled out our own section, and then one person put it all together. I would say it took me like 1.5 days to do each section, sometimes less, sometimes more. Our modules were generally between 75-150 pages when compiled, I think. We generally had about 2 weeks between exams.

The information is almost always in the books - the objectives are written directly from the books. Of course there was some confusions sometimes because of new editions and what not, but professors were always willing to help. In general, for each exam/module, you will have one meeting with each subject's professor, so you can ask them to clarify questions.

I really liked DSP - I'm a book learner, I can't really learn from people talking at me. I also liked not spending all day in that building, and I felt my days were better utilized when it came to studying.
 
GasForeva1 said:
It does take quite a bit of time. I think the majority of my class split into "module groups" - we had like 7-10 people (don't remember the exact number) in our group. We split up the module into ~equal parts, each filled out our own section, and then one person put it all together. I would say it took me like 1.5 days to do each section, sometimes less, sometimes more. Our modules were generally between 75-150 pages when compiled, I think. We generally had about 2 weeks between exams.

The information is almost always in the books - the objectives are written directly from the books. Of course there was some confusions sometimes because of new editions and what not, but professors were always willing to help. In general, for each exam/module, you will have one meeting with each subject's professor, so you can ask them to clarify questions.

I really liked DSP - I'm a book learner, I can't really learn from people talking at me. I also liked not spending all day in that building, and I felt my days were better utilized when it came to studying.
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Boy, that sounds absolutely terrible. Good that some people can do that though.
 
It really comes down to how you learn. Sitting in lecture for 8 hours a day while a doctor rambles on and on sounds like torture to me because all I would want is to be sitting at my desk in yoga pants while organizing my notes the way that makes sense to me and learning at my own pace. There are definitely pros and cons to either, but you just have to know what kind of learner you are before you choose!
 
Chiefer said:
It really comes down to how you learn. Sitting in lecture for 8 hours a day while a doctor rambles on and on sounds like torture to me because all I would want is to be sitting at my desk in yoga pants while organizing my notes the way that makes sense to me and learning at my own pace. There are definitely pros and cons to either, but you just have to know what kind of learner you are before you choose!
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That's why I'd always recommend schools like DCOM without mandatory attendance over those that do. Nothing beats watching a lecture at double speed, pausing to take notes in the comfort of your own home.
 
Hello!
I just came across this thread! I was interested in knowing what your final choice was (if you don't mind sharing!). I cannot imagine having to make such a huge decision when I have a hard enough time picking out what cereal to eat in the AM! 🙂 I am still waiting, praying to hear back from LMU-DCOM and LECOM about interviews (ahhhhhh so stressful!!!)
 
Dr Tony T. Chopper said:
Never interviewed at LMU, how rural is it really?
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Imagine driving for over an hour and seeing no cars in the middle of the day on the highway. Then when you reach the town you see the school on one side of the street and on the other side you have one restaurant, one bank that has a name you have never heard of and a grocery store that is the size of two convenience stores. You also see lots of cows. Then you realize there is no hotel so you keep driving on the town's only road for about ten minutes. In that time you go over a scenic bridge and into a well-lit tunnel in the face of an actual mountain. You have hope that civilization is near. You see more cars and get excited. Then you find 2 motels, 5 drive-thru fast food restaurants, a Mexican restaurant, a rather ugly and poorly stocked Kroger, a Walmart and a few other small stores. That's quite literally all there is besides houses that are miles apart from each other. There are apartments but I never saw them. Your life will be school and your only social interaction will be at school and the cashier at Kroger. There is no gym (except at school but it is super nice), no mall, no Costco or Target or Barnes and Nobles or Ikea.
 
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This is literally my worst nightmare. Its like being an ant stuck inside a floating bottle floating in the middle of the Atlantic.

petyr_baelish said:
Imagine driving for over an hour and seeing no cars in the middle of the day on the highway. Then when you reach the town you see the school on one side of the street and on the other side you have one restaurant, one bank that has a name you have never heard of and a grocery store that is the size of two convenience stores. You also see lots of cows. Then you realize there is no hotel so you keep driving on the town's only road for about ten minutes. In that time you go over a scenic bridge and into a well-lit tunnel in the face of an actual mountain. You have hope that civilization is near. You see more cars and get excited. Then you find 2 motels, 5 drive-thru fast food restaurants, a Mexican restaurant, a rather ugly and poorly stocked Kroger, a Walmart and a few other small stores. That's quite literally all there is besides houses that are miles apart from each other. There are apartments but I never saw them. Your life will be school and your only social interaction will be at school and the cashier at Kroger. There is no gym (except at school but it is super nice), no mall, no Costco or Target or Barnes and Nobles or Ikea.
Click to expand...
 
petyr_baelish said:
Imagine driving for over an hour and seeing no cars in the middle of the day on the highway. Then when you reach the town you see the school on one side of the street and on the other side you have one restaurant, one bank that has a name you have never heard of and a grocery store that is the size of two convenience stores. You also see lots of cows. Then you realize there is no hotel so you keep driving on the town's only road for about ten minutes. In that time you go over a scenic bridge and into a well-lit tunnel in the face of an actual mountain. You have hope that civilization is near. You see more cars and get excited. Then you find 2 motels, 5 drive-thru fast food restaurants, a Mexican restaurant, a rather ugly and poorly stocked Kroger, a Walmart and a few other small stores. That's quite literally all there is besides houses that are miles apart from each other. There are apartments but I never saw them. Your life will be school and your only social interaction will be at school and the cashier at Kroger. There is no gym (except at school but it is super nice), no mall, no Costco or Target or Barnes and Nobles or Ikea.
Click to expand...

and that's without the snow...
 
petyr_baelish said:
Imagine driving for over an hour and seeing no cars in the middle of the day on the highway. Then when you reach the town you see the school on one side of the street and on the other side you have one restaurant, one bank that has a name you have never heard of and a grocery store that is the size of two convenience stores. You also see lots of cows. Then you realize there is no hotel so you keep driving on the town's only road for about ten minutes. In that time you go over a scenic bridge and into a well-lit tunnel in the face of an actual mountain. You have hope that civilization is near. You see more cars and get excited. Then you find 2 motels, 5 drive-thru fast food restaurants, a Mexican restaurant, a rather ugly and poorly stocked Kroger, a Walmart and a few other small stores. That's quite literally all there is besides houses that are miles apart from each other. There are apartments but I never saw them. Your life will be school and your only social interaction will be at school and the cashier at Kroger. There is no gym (except at school but it is super nice), no mall, no Costco or Target or Barnes and Nobles or Ikea.
Click to expand...

To me, LECOM-E felt the same way, except there's a casino nearby. The nearest city (Cleveland and Pittsburgh) are about 2 hours away. Erie is a slightly better town than what you're describing, but not by much. Erie is one of the snowiest cities in the US.

At least there's Presque Isle State Park.
 
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petyr_baelish said:
Imagine driving for over an hour and seeing no cars in the middle of the day on the highway. Then when you reach the town you see the school on one side of the street and on the other side you have one restaurant, one bank that has a name you have never heard of and a grocery store that is the size of two convenience stores. You also see lots of cows. Then you realize there is no hotel so you keep driving on the town's only road for about ten minutes. In that time you go over a scenic bridge and into a well-lit tunnel in the face of an actual mountain. You have hope that civilization is near. You see more cars and get excited. Then you find 2 motels, 5 drive-thru fast food restaurants, a Mexican restaurant, a rather ugly and poorly stocked Kroger, a Walmart and a few other small stores. That's quite literally all there is besides houses that are miles apart from each other. There are apartments but I never saw them. Your life will be school and your only social interaction will be at school and the cashier at Kroger. There is no gym (except at school but it is super nice), no mall, no Costco or Target or Barnes and Nobles or Ikea.
Click to expand...
This is an exaggeration.
 
petyr_baelish said:
Imagine driving for over an hour and seeing no cars in the middle of the day on the highway. Then when you reach the town you see the school on one side of the street and on the other side you have one restaurant, one bank that has a name you have never heard of and a grocery store that is the size of two convenience stores. You also see lots of cows. Then you realize there is no hotel so you keep driving on the town's only road for about ten minutes. In that time you go over a scenic bridge and into a well-lit tunnel in the face of an actual mountain. You have hope that civilization is near. You see more cars and get excited. Then you find 2 motels, 5 drive-thru fast food restaurants, a Mexican restaurant, a rather ugly and poorly stocked Kroger, a Walmart and a few other small stores. That's quite literally all there is besides houses that are miles apart from each other. There are apartments but I never saw them. Your life will be school and your only social interaction will be at school and the cashier at Kroger. There is no gym (except at school but it is super nice), no mall, no Costco or Target or Barnes and Nobles or Ikea.
Click to expand...
Dr Tony T. Chopper said:
This is literally my worst nightmare. Its like being an ant stuck inside a floating bottle floating in the middle of the Atlantic.
Click to expand...

I can imagine how difficult it must be for rich suburban folks to adjust to the standard of living at LMU. Those who always shop at Target and Costco instead of Walmart. Those who frequent fancy restaurants and malls.

I went to college in New York. During my four years there, I almost never went off-campus. I knew that medical school will be very expensive, so I preferred to live cheaply and save money. I discovered cheap ways of entertainments (playing cards with friends, working out at the school gym).

Of course, when I become a doctor, I'd rather live in a large city. But for now, as a poor student in debt, I'm perfectly content with LMU's location.

So I guess it depends on the individual, more specifically, their socioeconomic status.
 
Go LECOM - comparatively both locations are nothing special but cost is much better at LECOM

As far as what school is "better" in terms of 3/4 year rotations and matches, I am not sure but am interested how LECOM stands with the rest of the DO schools.

Are both LECOM and LMU considered to be mid-tier (I know this isn't a def science but gen speaking)?
 
If you don't believe that one school will give you a significantly better education and ability to get into residency than the other...go with the cheaper school.
 
adrian710 said:
Are both LECOM and LMU considered to be mid-tier (I know this isn't a def science but gen speaking)?
Click to expand...

The general consensus appears to be:
Original DO schools and state schools >> everyone else > schools that are so new that they haven't graduated a class >>> Liberty
 
mathnerd88 said:
To me, LECOM-E felt the same way, except there's a casino nearby. The nearest city (Cleveland and Pittsburgh) are about 2 hours away. Erie is a slightly better town than what you're describing, but not by much. Erie is one of the snowiest cities in the US.

At least there's Presque Isle State Park.
Click to expand...

I've never been to Erie and I'm not claiming it's a metropolis, but this is kind of misleading (except the snow part).

Erie's population is 100,000. Greensburg, home of LECOM-SH, has a population of about 15,000. Harrogate, TN has a population of about 4,500.
 
ortnakas said:
I've never been to Erie and I'm not claiming it's a metropolis, but this is kind of misleading (except the snow part).

Erie's population is 100,000. Greensburg, home of LECOM-SH, has a population of about 15,000. Harrogate, TN has a population of about 4,500.
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I've been to Erie. Population doesn't dictate how you feel about an area.
 
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mathnerd88 said:
To me, LECOM-E felt the same way, except there's a casino nearby. The nearest city (Cleveland and Pittsburgh) are about 2 hours away. Erie is a slightly better town than what you're describing, but not by much. Erie is one of the snowiest cities in the US.

At least there's Presque Isle State Park.
Click to expand...

Erie has its own international airport (although perhaps the smallest one in existence) and several car mechanics that fix more than Fords (which was the recommended car at my LMU interview due to dearth of car mechanics). These are important amenities that were lacking in Harrogate, TN and Middlesboro, KY.

For national brands, Erie has a Barnes and Noble, several cafes including Starbucks, a Macy's in an actual mall that has stores we're all familiar with in large cities, a Target, a Super Walmart (lol), Home Depot, large restaurant chains like Texas Roadhouse, Longhorn Steakhouse, Olive Garden and several other national chains I can't remember, two large supermarkets: a Giant Eagle (cheap) and a Wegmans 5 minutes away from campus and the residential area that most students stay in (unlike the 15+ minute drive to Kroger/Walmart from the apartments in Harrogate). If you've never been to Wegmans, it looks like a nice Ralph's, Stop and Shop or HEB. It is clean, well-stocked, and has lots of fancy prepared food that's beyond most med students' price range but good in a pinch. Erie feels a lot more populated because it has 100k residents vs 4k in Harrogate. Or if you want to include the larger metro area of Erie vs Middlesboro, KY + Harrogate,TN + Tazewell, TN, the population comparison is respectively 280k vs 15k.

I don't think Erie has a Costco and the nearest IKEA is in Pittsburgh.

You can also drive from Erie to Pittsburgh and see relatively few cars, but not 0. I've only driven on each road once so that could be an invalid comparison due to time of day. So LECOM and LMU are equal on that front.

Is Erie itself pretty? No. But you can go to the lake and sit in the forest there, go cycling on the island or water-skiing in the summer. Harrogate on the other hand is very picturesque and quiet, but there isn't any water. The only outdoor activity worth doing there is hiking. Erie gets snowmageddon so you have to change your tires every year and Harrogate gets epic thunderstorms which are great to study in (although I heard the the power goes out when the best storms hit).

I clearly have a preference when comparing these two schools, and it isn't strictly related to the lifestyle I'll have in the first 2 years of school. I would argue that this is not the most important thing when choosing a medical school but if you aren't used to a rural way of life it can add unnecessary stress.

I think LECOM>LMU because of cost; the fact you can easily get your rotations in one hospital for 13 straight rotations (and all of them are in areas with more than 20 000 people); it is more established (founded in 1992 vs 2007) so you won't have a bunch of curriculum or staff changes that plague newer schools; and the proximity to 3 major cities (1.5 hrs from Cleveland and Buffalo, 2 hours from Pittsburgh) vs 1 (Knoxville).
 
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petyr_baelish said:
Erie has its own international airport (although perhaps the smallest one in existence) and several car mechanics that fix more than Fords (which was the recommended car at my LMU interview due to dearth of car mechanics). These are important amenities that were lacking in Harrogate, TN and Middlesboro, KY.

For national brands, Erie has a Barnes and Noble, several cafes including Starbucks, a Macy's in an actual mall that has stores we're all familiar with in large cities, a Target, a Super Walmart (lol), Home Depot, large restaurant chains like Texas Roadhouse, Longhorn Steakhouse, Olive Garden and several other national chains I can't remember, two large supermarkets: a Giant Eagle (cheap) and a Wegmans 5 minutes away from campus and the residential area that most students stay in (unlike the 15+ minute drive to Kroger/Walmart from the apartments in Harrogate). If you've never been to Wegmans, it looks like a nice Ralph's, Stop and Shop or HEB. It is clean, well-stocked, and has lots of fancy prepared food that's beyond most med students' price range but good in a pinch. Erie feels a lot more populated because it has 100k residents vs 4k in Harrogate. Or if you want to include the larger metro area of Erie vs Marborough KY + Harrogate TN + Tazewell, TN, the population comparison is respectively 280k vs 15k.

I don't think Erie has a Costco and the nearest IKEA is in Pittsburgh.

You can also drive from Erie to Pittsburgh and see relatively few cars, but not 0. I've only driven on each road once so that could be an invalid comparison due to time of day. So LECOM and LMU are equal on that front.

Is Erie itself pretty? No. But you can go to the lake and sit in the forest there, go cycling on the island or water-skiing in the summer. Harrogate on the other hand is very picturesque and quiet, but there isn't any water. The only outdoor activity worth doing there is hiking. Erie gets snowmageddon so you have to change your tires every year and Harrogate gets epic thunderstorms which are great to study in (although I heard the the power goes out when the best storms hit).

I clearly have a preference when comparing these two schools, and it isn't strictly related to the lifestyle I'll have in the first 2 years of school. I would argue that this is not the most important thing when choosing a medical school but if you aren't used to a rural way of life it can add unnecessary stress.

I think LECOM>LMU because of cost; the fact you can easily get your rotations in one hospital for 13 straight rotations (and all of them are in areas with more than 20 000 people); it is more established (founded in 1992 vs 2007) so you won't have a bunch of curriculum or staff changes that plague newer schools; and the proximity to 3 major cities (1.5 hrs from Cleveland and Buffalo, 2 hours from Pittsburgh) vs 1 (Knoxville).
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I come from a suburban area, and currently live in a major city in the East Coast. My tastes are very different. For example, I felt like I meshed with CCOM, LECOM-B, and RowanSOM much better than the environments of LECOM-E and CUSOM. Even though there is a big difference in population between LECOM-E and CUSOM, I still felt the same depressing feeling in both areas. I know I would also enjoy PCOM's area.

Out of all of these, I favored CCOM the most. I didn't really like Pittsburgh, or Cleveland.
 
mathnerd88 said:
I come from a suburban area, and currently live in a major city. My tastes are very different. For example, I felt like I meshed with CCOM, LECOM-B, and RowanSOM much better than the environments of LECOM-E and CUSOM. I know I would also enjoy PCOM's area.

Out of all of these, I favored CCOM the most. I didn't really like Pittsburgh, or Cleveland.
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I agree with you but the thread is about LMU vs LECOM.
 
petyr_baelish said:
I agree with you but the thread is about LMU vs LECOM.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and I did say that LECOM is in a slightly better area. I would choose LECOM of the two due to tuition cost. I was just merely commenting on someone else's post about LMU and how I felt about LECOM's in comparison.

Also, make sure you can tolerate LECOM's policies. Some of them are very strict.
 
mathnerd88 said:
Agreed, and I did say that LECOM is in a slightly better area. I would choose LECOM of the two due to tuition cost. I was just merely commenting on someone else's post about LMU and how I felt about LECOM's in comparison.

Also, make sure you can tolerate LECOM's policies. Some of them are very strict.
Click to expand...

LMU is in a rural area, but I really think people looking for lots to do during medical school are in for a rude awakening. It takes up almost all of your time. Second the description of harrogate and the surrounding area is inaccurate on so many levels and I'm so many ways (but to be fair, the author said he/she was biased) that I'd have to rewrite all of their posts to be accurate, and I just don't have that type of time. And regardless, you can be in Knoxville in an hour and the outskirts even sooner and that is a sizable metro area with a HUGE college making sure there's lots to do.

To me, the regions are mostly a wash. I'd focus on cost (point for Lecom) and strict school policies (point for LMU). Pick your poison, you didn't get into Harvard Med, so you're going to be making some concessions.
 
Never been to LMU, but my grandmother lives in the Erie area so I have some perspective on the city at the very least.
I grew up in a cow patch (according to my fiancé) in central Ohio, but now I live in the city of Pittsburgh. Not a suburb, but the actual city. I went to UG in a small town in the middle of nowhere that had a Walmart and a Food 4 Less.

I like Erie and its location. There's a "beach" with Lake Erie at Presque Isle. If you feel the need to go international, you can take a ferry to a couple islands in Canada. Pittsburgh is a 2 hour drive south but it's all highway and really is enjoyable for a weekend trip (Zagat named Pittsburgh as the Food Town for 2015), if you can tolerate the "Pittsburgese". I've gained more than my fair share of pounds from eating at the numerous restaurants in the area.

I think Presque Isle is beautiful. Snow is the biggest deterrent IMO. I haven't applied yet, but from living in several different situations, what you get out of a living situation is what you put into it. (LECOM is my #1 just FYI)
 
Mjolner said:
The general consensus appears to be:
Original DO schools and state schools >> everyone else > schools that are so new that they haven't graduated a class >>> Liberty
Click to expand...

Not a consensus. Perhaps among SDN pessimists, but not among all SDN users.
 
Dr Tony T. Chopper said:
Unrelated, but how do you interpret Victor Hugo's quote in your sig?
Click to expand...

I interpret it to mean that life will always appear unrelenting, aggressive, and more than we alone can bear. But small as we are, we have the strength inside to not only weather, but thrive in, any storm. It's my favorite quote. Hugo was a god among men.
 
sandstorm223 said:
Not a consensus. Perhaps among SDN pessimists, but not among all SDN users.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you're an accepted student in one of the later two categories?

Wait until you're actually a med student and are concerned about clinical training and how PDs view your graduates and get back to me.

Right now you're looking at med school with big wide eyes, just like I did when I was in your shoes. It's different when you're in the middle of it trying to figure out the best course to your desired residency program.
 
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