LECOM-Erie Overview for those curious

[JRjcu08]

I have a question for any current or past LECOM students: how do you feel the EDUCATION is at LECOM? Specifically I am asking about LDP since that's the program I am interested in and have been accepted into, but comments on OMM/OPP and other courses that everyone takes together would also be appreciated. Did you/do you feel prepared for COMLEX exams, rotations, residency, and ultimately being a practicing physician?

I hear a lot of people having really negative impressions about the rules, administration, "help" with rotations, etc., but what I am really concerned about is the idea that there is high faculty turn-over and lectures that are not helpful. Does LDP also employ the use of case studies at all? From what I understand, most programs (other schools) with traditional lecture-based curriculum do intersperse case studies - which I think is good, but PBL just isn't my overall choice of learning method.

Thanks for any input you might have!

For first year, LDP works well; you get the benefit of dissection in anatomy, and neuroanatomy is taught well. As primadonna stated, microbiology is great. Biochemistry/genetics are good for the most part. Physiology is awful, pharmacology is taught very poorly and is disorganized. General pathology is also taught very poorly giving a bad foundation for the system-specific pathology, which is usually taught well, but since you have no foundation, it doesn't work.

Second year (systems) there is entirely too much LDP time spent with redundant lectures from clinicians or mandatory repeated physiology/pharm lectures that were already taught poorly in core. So much of your time is spent in mandatory lecture that by time it comes to study for boards, you're running out of time to put it all together. Since you're only doing one system at once, you are not really reviewing all of the material together, and they do not do a good job of integrating the multisystem effects of disease. LDP does not really employ case studies to connect what you're learning to the bigger picture.

Honestly when I was beginning school I did not think PBL suited my learning style at all, but two years later I'm regretting it. Lectures in undergrad for the most part are so much different from lectures in medical school. Most of medicine can be much more easily and clearly learned from reading a textbook and discussing it in small group sessions (a la PBL or ISP), which you really do not have time to do as an LDP student because of the insane amount of lecture hours that they force upon you. There is one pathology teacher who blocks off "lecture" time specifically for reading, which is nice, but she is the only one who does this. There are "directed study" times in the schedule, but in LDP they usually double-up and give you a (bad) lecture on it anyway, further compounding the time waste.

I can't speak for being prepared for rotations yet because I won't start until June, but a lot of your board preparation as an LDP student will be spent making up for the lack of a good basic science foundation since most of the basic science teachers are not so great.

Feel free to PM me for more info if this isn't candid enough...

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[primadonna22274]

I neglected to mention that pathology is lacking. I have an advantage over my classmates who are not PAs because I've had years to learn the pathology and have a good handle on multisystem disease. I recognize where it is difficult to incorporate so much seemingly disjointed material for the majority of the class where this is their first exposure to medicine.
That said, I have been doing board review and supplementing with Pathoma since January

 

[JRjcu08]

I neglected to mention that pathology is lacking. I have an advantage over my classmates who are not PAs because I've had years to learn the pathology and have a good handle on multisystem disease. I recognize where it is difficult to incorporate so much seemingly disjointed material for the majority of the class where this is their first exposure to medicine.
That said, I have been doing board review and supplementing with Pathoma since January

agree again - Pathoma is where it's at.

 

[cel2016]

Thanks for the responses. Are the faculty fairly open to questions/discussion either during lecture or during some kind of office hours? It sounds like there might be a lot more "independent study" involved in LDP than I'd have envisioned.

 

[Igor4sugry]

As an LDP student you will be provided with a very good framework to succeed on comlex and usmle. Every year there are many students that do well on USMLE and are LDPers.

In order to do well on Step I you need to do a lot of self-studying no matter whether you are in LDP/PBL/ISP. If you study by incorporating FirstAid, Goljan Path, and actually reading the physiology book you will find your exams manageable and will be prepared for boards as well.

Most students that do well on USMLE start studying in January of MS-II and study for five (5) months. They incorporate everything and do U-World question banks. It is doable, and many people accomplish this every year.

 

[Pineappleyum]

make sure you have the handbook memorized for rotations. and dont get sick. the lecom administration shows its true colors when you are on rotations. if you get sick, make sure to email the school. dont e-mail them late at night, they will check the timestamp and ask you why you didnt email them earlier. seriously.

 

[equilibrio]

Not sure if this was asked before. How much will books cost approximately? I'm an incoming PBLer and I have a Moore anatomy textbook and histology textbook already (not sure when these classes are).

 

[Slevin]

Not sure if this was asked before. How much will books cost approximately? I'm an incoming PBLer and I have a Moore anatomy textbook and histology textbook already (not sure when these classes are).

Books will probably cost at least 500-1000 that first semester. Anatomy and histology both are within the first 12 weeks of classes

 

[preDoGuy24]

Not sure if this was asked before. How much will books cost approximately? I'm an incoming PBLer and I have a Moore anatomy textbook and histology textbook already (not sure when these classes are).

Anatomy will be till mid/end of October for you, Histo, barring any course changes will take till mid august.

 

[HalfListic]

This should all be moved to pre-osteo where more people will see it...

True that...this.................I agree.

 

[equilibrio]

Thank you for all your replies!

 

[Igor4sugry]

Not sure if this was asked before. How much will books cost approximately? I'm an incoming PBLer and I have a Moore anatomy textbook and histology textbook already (not sure when these classes are).

1st year $2k or more
2nd year $1.5k
also, include cost of usmle step I (~$600) if you plan on taking it because that exam is not factored into tuition (only comlex is).

 

[Dharma]

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[pianoman511]

Nowadays you can actually rent textbooks for a fraction of the cost of buying.

Truth be told, you probably won't even cracks open half the books you buy since all the testable info is on powerpoints.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[Dharma]

Nowadays you can actually rent textbooks for a fraction of the cost of buying.

Truth be told, you probably won't even cracks open half the books you buy since all the testable info is on powerpoints.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Congrats on the match Pianoman!

 

[Wolverines83]

for real? these prices must be buying every book at brand-spanking-new prices. for the thrifty there has to be other options

Also, if you order enough in advance (as in, like now) you can get the international version of the books which is the exact same word for word but dirt cheap.

I got my path book for something like 35 dollars brand new b/c it has the words southeast asian edition on it....same with pharm, I think I got it for 28?

You just have to wait for slow-ass shipping.

Might look cheesy (my pharm book says ownership outside sri lanka, tibet, nepal, india and some other countries is illegal, lol) but it saves a boat load!

 

[Slane]

If you're LDP, you won't use books for the majority of classes, just the PowerPoints and higher-yield books like First Aid and BRS. I got away with buying old or used editions or not buying them at all for most courses (a few exceptions exist for courses like repro and psych where there were DS blocks that required you to have the current version of the book and pharm where it just changes so often and you miss drugs without the newest.) I spent no where near $3500 on books my first two years. Maybe $1000 total if that.

 

[Igor4sugry]

for real? these prices must be buying every book at brand-spanking-new prices. for the thrifty there has to be other options

Better get used to this. Wait till you pay $1,185.00 for comlex PE and then ~$300 for hotel and travel expenses to get there.
Then you will be spending ~$2k-5k on residency interview travel in your 4th year.

 

[Igor4sugry]

If you're LDP, you won't use books for the majority of classes, just the PowerPoints and higher-yield books like First Aid and BRS. I got away with buying old or used editions or not buying them at all for most courses (a few exceptions exist for courses like repro and psych where there were DS blocks that required you to have the current version of the book and pharm where it just changes so often and you miss drugs without the newest.) I spent no where near $3500 on books my first two years. Maybe $1000 total if that.

I agree. The books that are worth getting new would probably be Path and Phys. For pharmacology don't bother with the giant book and get the Pharmacology examination and board review small book (http://www.amazon.com/Katzung-Pharmacology-Examination-McGraw-Hill-Specialty/dp/0071701559).

For OMT it is useful to have the Nicholas & Nicholas atlas, all other books I never opened.

 

[Dharma]

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[equilibrio]

Really helpful. Thanks!

 

[equilibrio]

Questions:
1. Do PBL students have gross anatomy dissection?
2. How necessary is it to get the required textbooks? e.g. the required anatomy text is Gray's, but I have Moore's.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Questions:
1. Do PBL students have gross anatomy dissection?
2. How necessary is it to get the required textbooks? e.g. the required anatomy text is Gray's, but I have Moore's.

At Seton Hill there is no Dissection part of the anatomy course, in Erie I believe PBL does do dissection. I think Gray's is a good text to definetly get, especially before you show up. I ended the anatomy course with just using BRS though. Gray's is by no means necessary its just the book the whole PBL course is taught from.

 

[Dharma]

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[paintballguy]

If you are PBL you WILL need these books, but I spent no where near as much as $2000. Buy used books. If anyone wants to buy books needed for PBL PM me cuz I have all of the current books (used of course), and a few other books you may need like the ACLS book. Yes you have to get the same Gray's Anatomy book as ldp, except you'll actually read it in PBL. No PBL does not have anatomy lab with dissection, but the FEW times our class wanted to see a presentation and or anything involving cadavers this was easily arranged. Oh and PBL is awesome!

 

[Shadeblueracer]

Nope, no dissection for Erie PBL, at least up until this point; only LDP and DSP. They claim that you can ask for cadaver time but I've heard it's tough to get this. Maybe a PBLer can weigh in.

I second the use of Gray's.

For PBL Erie class of 2014, we had two enrichment sessions where we got to go into lab and learn about thorax and abdomen because we requested it (you can request as many enrichment sessions as you want). For the most part, we just used images from our anatomy CD program. If anyone wanted to go in and learn from the cadavers, no one stopped us since they were in the building open for LDP and ISP whenever school was open. I enjoyed it, but used my time more efficiently going through many anatomy slides of the different sections since I could do this any time I had my computer next to me.

 

[Dr Yiot]

you guys where not kidding when you said physio sucks. i mean its downright awfull.

oms1 here

i cant believe the scheduling of tests and quizes during core either. it gears you to just do bad..........i mean we have a micro quiz which we had 1 day to study for the day before thanksgiving break, why not just give it to us when we get back? its on 14 lectures. and the worst part is we get back on monday, and on the friday we get back we have a micro exam, on the exact same lectures seeying as we dont have any micro lectures from today till then. nine day gap. no lectures. test on the same material your gonna get quized on. its pretty much a grade killer.......

 

[Nymphicus]

For PBL Erie class of 2014, we had two enrichment sessions where we got to go into lab and learn about thorax and abdomen because we requested it (you can request as many enrichment sessions as you want). For the most part, we just used images from our anatomy CD program. If anyone wanted to go in and learn from the cadavers, no one stopped us since they were in the building open for LDP and ISP whenever school was open. I enjoyed it, but used my time more efficiently going through many anatomy slides of the different sections since I could do this any time I had my computer next to me.

I think this is really unfortunate.

 

[MaximusMeridius]

you guys where not kidding when you said physio sucks. i mean its downright awfull.

oms1 here

i cant believe the scheduling of tests and quizes during core either. it gears you to just do bad..........i mean we have a micro quiz which we had 1 day to study for the day before thanksgiving break, why not just give it to us when we get back? its on 14 lectures. and the worst part is we get back on monday, and on the friday we get back we have a micro exam, on the exact same lectures seeying as we dont have any micro lectures from today till then. nine day gap. no lectures. test on the same material your gonna get quized on. its pretty much a grade killer.......

C'mon Colt,
You're a stud, you got this in the bag! Have a good Turkey Day!
-Steel

 

[MaximusMeridius]

I think this is really unfortunate.

Nah. Say what you will about the benefits of the cadavers but aside from the "tradition" of learning anatomy on a physical corpse I don't think we missed out on anything in PBL. Besides, if I wanted to get into the lab and learn on a cadaver I was always able to....never wanted to, but that option was there.

 

[Dharma]

I think this is really unfortunate.

Disagree, according to my own personal experience. Spent plenty of time with the cadavers (both in and out of lab) and I did not learn nearly as much in there as I thought I would have. My time was much better spent elsewhere.

Glad to have had the experience and go through that right of passage and all, but I got a lot more out of my texts, atlas, and online programs. I still think there is something to be gained from the experience, but it is not anywhere close to the hype many make it out to be. On top of that, I know for a fact that a bunch of the PBL folk know their anatomy inside-out. Didn't seem to negatively affect them.

Unfortunate only if you really wanted the experience but not in terms of the acquisition of knowledge and understanding of anatomy.

 

[Dr Yiot]

C'mon Colt,
You're a stud, you got this in the bag! Have a good Turkey Day!
-Steel

STEEL nobody messes with a guy name steel.

you too man.

ldp kicked my but this week.
but i actually didnt do to bad today on that micro quiz.

 

[Dr Yiot]

Disagree, according to my own personal experience. Spent plenty of time with the cadavers (both in and out of lab) and I did not learn nearly as much in there as I thought I would have. My time was much better spent elsewhere.

Glad to have had the experience and go through that right of passage and all, but I got a lot more out of my texts, atlas, and online programs. I still think there is something to be gained from the experience, but it is not anywhere close to the hype many make it out to be. On top of that, I know for a fact that a bunch of the PBL folk know their anatomy inside-out. Didn't seem to negatively affect them.

Unfortunate only if you really wanted the experience but not in terms of the acquisition of knowledge and understanding of anatomy.

i agree with ya dharma, i felt that lab was unnecessary to med school. it took away time. it helped me a little bit with the spacial questions on the exam and such but i honestly felt like i could have learned that on my own. i would not worry about not taking lab. did i think it was a cool experience? yes. did it help me out? yes but not the dissection part. the fact that i was around friends studying the material helped more than the actual dissecting. bieng with friends and discussing things reinforces it for you but you can do that on your own.

 

[bleeker10]

you guys where not kidding when you said physio sucks. i mean its downright awfull.

oms1 here

i cant believe the scheduling of tests and quizes during core either. it gears you to just do bad..........i mean we have a micro quiz which we had 1 day to study for the day before thanksgiving break, why not just give it to us when we get back? its on 14 lectures. and the worst part is we get back on monday, and on the friday we get back we have a micro exam, on the exact same lectures seeying as we dont have any micro lectures from today till then. nine day gap. no lectures. test on the same material your gonna get quized on. its pretty much a grade killer.......

Core was tough, especially after being eased into med school with anatomy. Our first physio exam, at least half of LDP failed. Just do your best to get through it. Take off the entire break to re-energize for the last few weeks before winter break. I think you are looking at the micro exam the wrong way. Instead of thinking that not having any lectures between now and exam time is a bad thing, think of it as a plus. You don't have anymore lectures for the test. That gives you plenty of time to nail the material.

You're almost done with your first semester of med school. It gets easier from here on. Just kidding, it doesn't. But 4th year is awesome

 

[Dr Yiot]

Core was tough, especially after being eased into med school with anatomy. Our first physio exam, at least half of LDP failed. Just do your best to get through it. Take off the entire break to re-energize for the last few weeks before winter break. I think you are looking at the micro exam the wrong way. Instead of thinking that not having any lectures between now and exam time is a bad thing, think of it as a plus. You don't have anymore lectures for the test. That gives you plenty of time to nail the material.

You're almost done with your first semester of med school. It gets easier from here on. Just kidding, it doesn't. But 4th year is awesome

haha thanks man. yup, half our class failed our first physio exam.

but i guess your right, i do have plenty of time to get the material down which is awsome, cause i feel like i can anhilate the micro exam this way. i dunno about taking the whole week off lol i might have to study a day or two.

thanks for the advice man. i cant wait till fourth year.

 

[primadonna22274]

Look on the bright side: Micro dept is outstanding and you will learn it well--and micro/Immuno are high-yield for boards
Just to make you feel better: M2s had a renal exam on Monday then a quiz on 2 lectures Tuesday which they didn't give us until AFTER the long-winded lecturer had already gone over...so no chance of getting out of town early. We figure it was their way of making it painful whether you came to class or skipped.

 

[Dr Yiot]

Look on the bright side: Micro dept is outstanding and you will learn it well--and micro/Immuno are high-yield for boards
Just to make you feel better: M2s had a renal exam on Monday then a quiz on 2 lectures Tuesday which they didn't give us until AFTER the long-winded lecturer had already gone over...so no chance of getting out of town early. We figure it was their way of making it painful whether you came to class or skipped.

thats cold blooded. i heard you guys arent really enjoying renal that much lol.

 

[Slane]

thats cold blooded. i heard you guys arent really enjoying renal that much lol.

Nobody enjoys renal. Renal makes neuro look like kindergarten. It was the most failed system in my class, mostly because of the piss poor physio instruction at LECOM. And as mentioned before, if you're struggling in core classes, you really need to get on top of it and figure out a better way to study. Med school in the preclinical years doesn't start hard and get easier, it starts easy and continually gets harder, you just learn how to cope with it better.

On a more positive note, life after your level one boards makes all the crap you push through during your preclinical years more than worth it! Aside from the shelfs, which you can usually pass with your level one knowledge and a few days of cramming, it's a walk in the park in comparison. And when it comes to scheduling rotations at LECOM, be aggressive and don't allow your classmates to screw you over. You're going to piss some people off, but odds are you won't see 90% of them ever again after OMS-II. It's worth it to get quality rotations.

 

[primadonna22274]

Actually I must be one of the few truly nutty folks enjoying renal. Of course I loved neuro too (clinical neuro, not neuroanatomy!)...ironically enough, both subjects I loathed in PA school. It's nice to get a 2nd crack at systems and learn them better and deeper. I can't imagine learning all this stuff cold in the tiny amount of time allotted to do it as most of my classmates are doing...this is my greatest advantage as a PA. I know I'm an anomaly finding 2nd year immeasurably easier than first. I finally understand acid-base chemistry...granted, I am self-teaching physio as the instruction here is truly lacking.

 

[Igor4sugry]

This is all reference to USMLE.
Advice for MSIIs: second year is the most important year to succeed on boards. If you are not doing well on exams and feel you do not know the material you will do poorly on Step I.

Those that do well know the book material well, do well on classroom exams, and on top of that study for relevant board material.

There is a big disconnect between classroom exams and what is on the boards. Even if you do well on their in-class exams that alone is not enough to perform well on step I.

 

[discharged]

If this is not a testament to avoid LECOM, what else is? Students within who are just bickering at each other, all the time.. LECOM has done well to have everyone divided against each other. Ask yourself, is this the environment you would like to be in?

To the people opposing the OP, he has a right to state his opinion. Paid damn good money to matriculate at the school, and will be paying for it for a good part of his life. Do people not have the right to review the product they purchased without being scorned? For you guys to come in and say his claims are illegitimate, who do you think you are? When you pay for his education, then you have the right to say something about HIS education.

To everyone wondering whether or not to attend LECOM, I advise you again.. Look at everyone grumbling back and forth on this forum. These are the students you will be sitting around. This speaks volumes of the school itself.

 

[Dharma]

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[GlowInTheDark]

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[deleted245139]

If this is not a testament to avoid LECOM, what else is? Students within who are just bickering at each other, all the time.. LECOM has done well to have everyone divided against each other. Ask yourself, is this the environment you would like to be in?

To the people opposing the OP, he has a right to state his opinion. Paid damn good money to matriculate at the school, and will be paying for it for a good part of his life. Do people not have the right to review the product they purchased without being scorned? For you guys to come in and say his claims are illegitimate, who do you think you are? When you pay for his education, then you have the right to say something about HIS education.

To everyone wondering whether or not to attend LECOM, I advise you again.. Look at everyone grumbling back and forth on this forum. These are the students you will be sitting around. This speaks volumes of the school itself.

This is like telling someone to avoid buying a product because when you read the customer reviews, you see bickering between people who liked the product and those that didn't. "Well do NOT buy this product then, look how it divides people!" That's a silly way to read the posts in this thread. Dharma is right - while the OP abs. has a right to vent, the opinion isn't shared by all, and so anyone considering the school has a right to see BOTH sides. I graduate in 6 months and have my own opinions, but I will say this: PBL at LECOM has provided me with what I consider to be the BEST possible learning environment for medicine. I feel confident, comfortable, and have thrived thanks to their program.

Look... a lot of your medical school experience is going to be what you make of it. Head down, work hard, don't do dumb ****, and you will likely be fine, and hell... maybe even enjoy yourself. This applies to any medical school you go to : allo or osteo, harvard or lecom. Just work hard and keep on keepin on.

GL to future students with their decisions

 

[Dr Yiot]

for what its worth I friggin love lecom and Im super glad I came here.

 

[Dr Yiot]

If this is not a testament to avoid LECOM, what else is? Students within who are just bickering at each other, all the time.. LECOM has done well to have everyone divided against each other. Ask yourself, is this the environment you would like to be in?

To the people opposing the OP, he has a right to state his opinion. Paid damn good money to matriculate at the school, and will be paying for it for a good part of his life. Do people not have the right to review the product they purchased without being scorned? For you guys to come in and say his claims are illegitimate, who do you think you are? When you pay for his education, then you have the right to say something about HIS education.

To everyone wondering whether or not to attend LECOM, I advise you again.. Look at everyone grumbling back and forth on this forum. These are the students you will be sitting around. This speaks volumes of the school itself.

i challenge you to find a school which every student that attends has zero problems with. there will always be some who dislike there school for one reason or another and there are no schools without issues.

like ive said I love it here and if had to choose again I would still come here.

for the most part the professors are great and the student body is awsome.

no regrets here.

 

[primadonna22274]

Happy here too. LECOM gave me a chance to be a doctor in 3 years, saving me a LOT of money and getting me back to real life sooner.
Unhappy people are unhappy no matter what. I avoid those people. Not worth my time.
We make our own choices. You can choose to be happy or you can allow yourself to be dragged down by other people's petty misery. Life is short and harder than it has to be--but it is easier if you accept what you cannot control and appreciate what blessings you have.

 

[Mbeas]

Unhappy people are unhappy no matter what. I avoid those people. Not worth my time. We make our own choices. You can choose to be happy or you can allow yourself to be dragged down by other people's petty misery.

this is so true

 

[Dr Yiot]

Nobody enjoys renal. Renal makes neuro look like kindergarten. It was the most failed system in my class, mostly because of the piss poor physio instruction at LECOM. And as mentioned before, if you're struggling in core classes, you really need to get on top of it and figure out a better way to study. Med school in the preclinical years doesn't start hard and get easier, it starts easy and continually gets harder, you just learn how to cope with it better.

On a more positive note, life after your level one boards makes all the crap you push through during your preclinical years more than worth it! Aside from the shelfs, which you can usually pass with your level one knowledge and a few days of cramming, it's a walk in the park in comparison. And when it comes to scheduling rotations at LECOM, be aggressive and don't allow your classmates to screw you over. You're going to piss some people off, but odds are you won't see 90% of them ever again after OMS-II. It's worth it to get quality rotations.

oh im doing ok, not top of the class or anything but im happy with my performance.

physio just upsets me thats all lol. thanks for the advice

 

[hhcass12]

Hey guys, I could not get an interview until March 15; I applied late. Are all the spots usually filled by then?