LECOM vs. CCOM

[hopeinternist]

What are the key differences between the schools. After reading a bunch of posts i have basically narrowed it down to this. i honestly see both pros and cons and i m just having trouble piecing all of it together. These are my options

I m about to be a senior in college, i have a 2.75sgpa and a 2.95 overall and like a 3.5 non science gpa. My plan was to enroll in LECOMs post bacc Fall 2010 get a 3.0 and enroll in their med school Fall 2011. PRos--- VERY cost effective, i ll save about 150k arguably maybe more after i graduate! I only have to deal with the dress code rules, no food/drink and not being allowed to walk around in my own school for only two years. Since i ll probably leave my third year. I have heard the administration isn't very supportive, and a lot of things are left for the student to figure out. COns - all those rules for students, not as "prestigious" and i ve heard that getting into residencies is a bit tougher since LECOM doesn't pay the hospitals it sends its students to. Not sure about the last one, just what i ve read around SDN etc.

CCOM - amazing town, great rep in the area. CRAZY expensive tuition. To have any chance at this school, I would have to retake a couple of my pre reqs, have a pretty stressful senior year taking more upper level science classes and still do the LECOM post bacc to boost my chances. Bring up gpa to about 3.2 mcat abt 28/29 and then apply and maybe get in.

Basically my question is, is it worth going the extra mile, when DO schools are not even technically ranked against each other. What makes CCOM better or worse, other than the obvious reasons ( better looking campus, on campus living etc) and why do students decide to go for more expensive schools even with the looming health care reform, salary cuts for physicians etc Wouldn't it make more sense to just suck it up for two years, and then move on? Maybe I am over simplifying the situation, but I just don't know how I should be thinking and comparing these two schools or any expensive school and LECOM. I don't plan on trying for some uber competitive specialty so I dont know if that should play a part in my decision.

NOTE: I m not trying to insult either school or praise either school. I m simply stating what I have heard/read on SDN and from other med students. Thank you for reading upto to this point and I d like to know what you guys think. Thanks

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[droogdoc]

LECOM's clinical rotations are fine. Plus, I never heard that LECOM doesn't pay it's hospitals it is affiliated with to have people rotate there. I thought all school's did unless it belonged to the school. What would that have to do with getting into residency. LECOM-Bradenton was #2 in the nation with COMLEX scores last year! I'm sure those grads are going to be just fine, check out the previous match lists for the schools, including Erie. Actually, LECOM is one of the top DO schools in the nation, even if the word "prestigious" isn't used.

As far as CCOM, it is right by my house. Great school. Very tough to get in to and is very "academic" in its methods, kind of like allopathic schools. Many grads go into non-primary care residencies. Also, LECOM isn't the only school that is "tough" on you. CCOM is brutal. Difficult curriculum but it pays off. There are plenty of nightmare stories from CCOM as well about people not getting helped out with setting up clinicals. That is a lot of schools, not just LECOM.

It seems your approach to this is a little misguided. Let's just say if you didn't get into CCOM but got into one of the LECOM's....well...there are a couple thousand people that would kill to have that acceptance. Great school. Period.

 

[beckhunter116]

At this point I think you are putting the horse before the cart. It is great that you are looking into schools but first you need to apply and then get accepted. Once you have an acceptance to both then you could choose between them. Or maybe you'll only get accepted to one and then their is no choice.

As you have said a lot of your opinions are based on SDN and friends. A lot of people on here have commented on how interviewing somewhere can really change how you look at a place. You may love a place you weren't expecting to or vice versa.

Also, I hope you are planning on applying to more than two places. CCOM is very competitive and LECOM gets so many applications (probably 2nd to PCOM) that they can choose people based on their whole application moreso than maybe some other schools--although I think that DO's do look at the whole app more than MD schools.

It's a good idea to do the post-bacc esp. if LECOM is one of your top choices, but again you may want to apply to a few...at least that is what I have seen from the post-bacc forum. Good luck!

 

[hopeinternist]

Yea I was definitely planning to apply to more than 2 schools, but obviously not this cycle since I am already quite late right? I wanted to apply EARLY haha which has been drilled into my head thanks to all the great people on SDN ( im not being sarcastic, honestly thank you) So i d apply next cycle, and but i d apply for the post bacc in a couple months and hopefully get into that as a backup. I m just assuming if i pull a 3.5 in the post bacc and a minimum of a 3.0 automatically gets an interview at LECOM, then i can relax a bit. right? That s how I thought it all worked out. With tuition rates sooo high, I really dont know if its worth going to an expensive school especially with the way the economy is and all this health care reform craziness that is in progress. I dont think i ll be able to make enough $$$ to support a family especially if i go into family practice or IM and not end up paying off loans for the rest of my life.

 

[MossPoh]

Be careful to not confuse comlex scores with comlex pass rate. While one can say there is a correlation between the two, they aren't one in the same. I don't think I've ever seen a school show me the average score. The difference in pass rates is usually not statistically significant between the majority of schools. A percent or two can equate to 2 or 3 people missing one or two questions more than someone else that passed it barely. How about all those random numbers thrown in?

 

[pianoman511]

I m about to be a senior in college, i have a 2.75sgpa and a 2.95 overall and like a 3.5 non science gpa. My plan was to enroll in LECOMs post bacc Fall 2010 get a 3.0 and enroll in their med school Fall 2011. PRos--- VERY cost effective, i ll save about 150k arguably maybe more after i graduate! I only have to deal with the dress code rules, no food/drink and not being allowed to walk around in my own school for only two years. Since i ll probably leave my third year. I have heard the administration isn't very supportive, and a lot of things are left for the student to figure out. COns - all those rules for students, not as "prestigious" and i ve heard that getting into residencies is a bit tougher since LECOM doesn't pay the hospitals it sends its students to. Not sure about the last one, just what i ve read around SDN etc.

OK, just to address a few of your concerns. Yes there are a lot of rules, but they are fairly easy to adapt to and you definitely get used to it. It's definitely easier to pick out your outfit for the day and you are going to have to wear a shirt and tie during most rotations (except surgery), so why not start now. No food/drink anywhere but the cafeteria does suck, but again you learn to live with it.

Going to post bac only helps because of two reasons. One, you get used to all the rules, the campus, etc. Two, you get very similar (if not the same) classes that first year medical students are taking from the same professors that teach them. Trust me, it's a biiiig help when everyone else is learning new material and you are just reviewing.

Yes the rotation system is not 100% user friendly for people who are going elsewhere for rotations and yes LECOM does NOT pay rotation sites for 3rd and 4th years (supposedly to keep tuition costs down...). That doesn't make things tougher for residency, but definitely makes things tougher when finding places to rotate. The ... prestigious...ness (sic) quite honestly should not take a very high place in your decision making. Bottom line, med school is med school. Do well and you will get the residency you want.

 

[TeamZissou]

I m about to be a senior in college, i have a 2.75sgpa and a 2.95 overall and like a 3.5 non science gpa. My plan was to enroll in LECOMs post bacc Fall 2010 get a 3.0 and enroll in their med school Fall 2011. PRos--- VERY cost effective, i ll save about 150k arguably maybe more after i graduate! I only have to deal with the dress code rules, no food/drink and not being allowed to walk around in my own school for only two years. Since i ll probably leave my third year. I have heard the administration isn't very supportive, and a lot of things are left for the student to figure out. COns - all those rules for students, not as "prestigious" and i ve heard that getting into residencies is a bit tougher since LECOM doesn't pay the hospitals it sends its students to. Not sure about the last one, just what i ve read around SDN etc.

I'm having a difficult time following you here. How long is LECOM's post bacc? Why would you be leaving your 3rd year?

As far as them not paying your rotation sites, this may have some effect on SOME of your rotations (years 3 and 4 of med school) but certainly not all because it's very common for DO schools not to pay some of their rotation sites.

Residency is what comes after you graduate from med school and your school not paying for rotation sites has little to nothing to do with what residency you would get. There are far more important factors such as your board scores, clinical (rotation) grades, and LORs.

Be careful to not confuse comlex scores with comlex pass rate. While one can say there is a correlation between the two, they aren't one in the same. I don't think I've ever seen a school show me the average score. The difference in pass rates is usually not statistically significant between the majority of schools. A percent or two can equate to 2 or 3 people missing one or two questions more than someone else that passed it barely. How about all those random numbers thrown in?

This is true, also I would mention that many schools (such as AZCOM) require their students to pass a pre-test before taking the boards which would obviously help their pass rate.

As far as avg scores the only instance I've ever seen was recently at CCOM where they posted their avg of 520 compared to the national avg of 497. How much to read into that, I dunno....

http://www.midwestern.edu/CCOM_Scores_Well_on_COMLEX_1.html

 

[mommy2three]

CCOM (or actually MIdwestern) also has a SMP associated with it. they have a really good placement rate at both CCOM itself as well as the sister campus of AZCOM. something to consider if you want to go there but think you may have to pursue a post-bac/SMP first.
for reference, we recently started our second year and we have already had 5 people from our class get in to CCOM...4 are continuing on as dual degree and one is not. we also still have 2 people on the waitlist for fall.

i posted a review on the post-bac forum as well

 

[hopeinternist]

Going to post bac only helps because of two reasons. One, you get used to all the rules, the campus, etc. Two, you get very similar (if not the same) classes that first year medical students are taking from the same professors that teach them. Trust me, it's a biiiig help when everyone else is learning new material and you are just reviewing.

that was the biggest incentive. One aspect, I ffed around in undergrad didnt get the grades I was supposed to get etc, so I feel like haha I should stop being a little B**** and suck it up. The food/drink rule, makes sense to cut down janitorial costs to keep the tuition down. And also yea i am hoping to do really well in the first year, thanks to having already seen all the material once during the post bacc. Are you personally having issues with finding rotation sites?

I'm having a difficult time following you here. How long is LECOM's post bacc? Why would you be leaving your 3rd year?

As far as them not paying your rotation sites, this may have some effect on SOME of your rotations (years 3 and 4 of med school) but certainly not all because it's very common for DO schools not to pay some of their rotation sites.

Residency is what comes after you graduate from med school and your school not paying for rotation sites has little to nothing to do with what residency you would get. There are far more important factors such as your board scores, clinical (rotation) grades, and LORs.

Yea sorry I guess I got a little bit confused with the difference between rotation sites and residency. The reason i said that I would be leaving my third year, is because I would be most likely leaving Erie, PA for rotations. So in theory I would only be dealing with all those "rules" at LECOM for only 2 years of med school and the one year of post bacc. So in reality I am not even gonna have to deal with it for all 4 years. I am assuming that a student has the choice of leaving Erie, PA for rotations during their 3rd and 4th year of med school.. right?

 

[nanaschool2000]

IF the biggest concern for OP is to increase GPA, I will strongly suggest LECOM postbacc. As it was mentioned before, it has many great advantages. The biggest advantage is that you are being taught from same professors. Hey! I'm pretty sure some of those professors will be in admission committee. If you leave a good impression, can you provide any better application?

That being said... I want to let you know there are many postbacc or GPA enriching master program for DO admission. Some of them I know ..

KCOM Masters in Biomedical Program - a great program... basically two years of long interview

CCOM/AZCOM Master Biomedical Science

DMU - Biomedical

KCCOM - Biomedical

LECOM - Postbacc

PCOM - Biomedical

NOVA - Biomedical

YOu can find more info from postbacc forum.

 

[mommy2three]

also, OP, I do not know where you are, but if it feasible you should check out the "health career professions" day they hold on campus in october and in april.

it is a great way to get your face seen and talk to current students.

 

[pianoman511]

that was the biggest incentive. One aspect, I ffed around in undergrad didnt get the grades I was supposed to get etc, so I feel like haha I should stop being a little B**** and suck it up. The food/drink rule, makes sense to cut down janitorial costs to keep the tuition down. And also yea i am hoping to do really well in the first year, thanks to having already seen all the material once during the post bacc. Are you personally having issues with finding rotation sites?

Well, I am just starting my second year so I don't know yet. I do know that the affiliate hospital list on the LECOM website has shrunk considerably since last year and I have heard many horror stories about people having their schedule all made and then having the hospitals cancel their rotations last minute.

 

[hopeinternist]

Well, I am just starting my second year so I don't know yet. I do know that the affiliate hospital list on the LECOM website has shrunk considerably since last year and I have heard many horror stories about people having their schedule all made and then having the hospitals cancel their rotations last minute.

Are you worried about that at all? What exactly do you mean had all their schedules planned out and got canceled? Arent there rules/procedures to protect students from stuff or not really. Are the MS 3s and MS 4s generally happy from what you sense when you talk to them?

 

[pianoman511]

Are you worried about that at all? What exactly do you mean had all their schedules planned out and got canceled? Arent there rules/procedures to protect students from stuff or not really. Are the MS 3s and MS 4s generally happy from what you sense when you talk to them?

I am definitely worried about that. Basically, you make your schedule in the second half of second year and iron out where you are doing rotations. Unfortunately, at ANY time the hospitals you rotate at can cancel the rotation or decide they can't take as many students as they originally thought. There really aren't any procedures to protect students because they pretty much put it all on you. In addition, since LECOM does not pay for rotations that is further incentive for hospitals to drop LECOM rotation spots in favor of schools that would pay for rotations.

Unfortunately, we don't really interact with MS3 or MS4 students at LECOM since they really don't come back except to take shelf exams (and thats not too often). So...I don't really know.

 

[hopeinternist]

I am definitely worried about that. Basically, you make your schedule in the second half of second year and iron out where you are doing rotations. Unfortunately, at ANY time the hospitals you rotate at can cancel the rotation or decide they can't take as many students as they originally thought. There really aren't any procedures to protect students because they pretty much put it all on you. In addition, since LECOM does not pay for rotations that is further incentive for hospitals to drop LECOM rotation spots in favor of schools that would pay for rotations.

Unfortunately, we don't really interact with MS3 or MS4 students at LECOM since they really don't come back except to take shelf exams (and thats not too often). So...I don't really know.

Wow that sounds terrible. Anything else about LECOM that you didnt expect and was a rude surprise? I hope some LECOM MS 3s or 4s see this thread and respond. Sigh... lol

 

[JanikeyDoc]

What are the key differences between the schools. After reading a bunch of posts i have basically narrowed it down to this. i honestly see both pros and cons and i m just having trouble piecing all of it together. These are my options

I m about to be a senior in college, i have a 2.75sgpa and a 2.95 overall and like a 3.5 non science gpa. My plan was to enroll in LECOMs post bacc Fall 2010 get a 3.0 and enroll in their med school Fall 2011. PRos--- VERY cost effective, i ll save about 150k arguably maybe more after i graduate! I only have to deal with the dress code rules, no food/drink and not being allowed to walk around in my own school for only two years. Since i ll probably leave my third year. I have heard the administration isn't very supportive, and a lot of things are left for the student to figure out. COns - all those rules for students, not as "prestigious" and i ve heard that getting into residencies is a bit tougher since LECOM doesn't pay the hospitals it sends its students to. Not sure about the last one, just what i ve read around SDN etc.

CCOM - amazing town, great rep in the area. CRAZY expensive tuition. To have any chance at this school, I would have to retake a couple of my pre reqs, have a pretty stressful senior year taking more upper level science classes and still do the LECOM post bacc to boost my chances. Bring up gpa to about 3.2 mcat abt 28/29 and then apply and maybe get in.

Basically my question is, is it worth going the extra mile, when DO schools are not even technically ranked against each other. What makes CCOM better or worse, other than the obvious reasons ( better looking campus, on campus living etc) and why do students decide to go for more expensive schools even with the looming health care reform, salary cuts for physicians etc Wouldn't it make more sense to just suck it up for two years, and then move on? Maybe I am over simplifying the situation, but I just don't know how I should be thinking and comparing these two schools or any expensive school and LECOM. I don't plan on trying for some uber competitive specialty so I dont know if that should play a part in my decision.

NOTE: I m not trying to insult either school or praise either school. I m simply stating what I have heard/read on SDN and from other med students. Thank you for reading upto to this point and I d like to know what you guys think. Thanks

Is it me or is CCOM supposed to be one of the most selective DO schools? I saw the CIB and it said they get 4000+ applications for about 200 seats. I think only PCOM gets more applicants. LECOM gets a lot but the a higher ratio of seats to applicants.

I heard LECOM Bradenton students performed extremely well on the COMLEX. I think both schools seem to accomplish their missions.