LECOM vs UNECOM

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Would like to know this too. Unecom seems to top it for everything imo
 
I'd choose LECOM by a mile. The tuition and PBL curriculum.

And if I'm not mistaken, Lecom-b specifically, also has the best performance on comlex out of all the D.O schools.
 
UNECOM has no mandatory attendance. I absolutely loved the atmosphere at UNECOM and feel that I'd be happier there, but it's hard to say no to a tuition that's 20k cheaper.
 
Also UNECOM has a greater emphasis on primary care. I know this gets belabored and that I shouldn't be too concerned about match lists, but I feel like LECOM will provide better opportunities when it comes to rotating.
 
99445 said:
UNECOM has no mandatory attendance. I absolutely loved the atmosphere at UNECOM and feel that I'd be happier there, but it's hard to say no to a tuition that's 20k cheaper.
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Do whatever is best for you. That is a significant difference in tuition but I would NEVER make my decision based 100% on $ (but, that is just me).

EDIT: ^This. I grew up in and around medicine and, let me tell you, the most miserable physicians that I have interacted with were the ones who made their life decisions based solely on $ and not where their happiness truly lied (n = 1).
 
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anon01 said:
Out of curiosity, do you know who is?
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I'd say the people with the highest board scores are between DMU, MWU (CCOM/AZCOM), PCOM and UNTCOM/TCOM.

As many of the medical students have said though, these types of numbers are irrelevant, going to a school with high board scores does not guarantee you'll score above average. It's all about individual learning and effort. Though a nice curriculum and learning resources always helpful
 
ChiTownBHawks said:
Do whatever is best for you. That is a significant difference in tuition but I would NEVER make my decision based 100% on $ (but, that is just me).

EDIT: ^This. I grew up in and around medicine and, let me tell you, the most miserable physicians that I have interacted with were the ones who made their life decisions based solely on $ and not where their happiness truly lied (n = 1).
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Agree strongly with my colleague here!
 
ugh looked for it again and it looks like lecom-b had 566 on comlex-1, and tcom's is actually 576 on comlex 3. I missed that. Lecom's score is in the thread from 2012-2013, around page 24 or 25.
 
100111 said:
ugh looked for it again and it looks like lecom-b had 566 on comlex-1, and tcom's is actually 576 on comlex 3. I missed that. Lecom's score is in the thread from 2012-2013, around page 24 or 25.
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So, you have no actual school reported source for Lecom-b. Just what some random student *proclaimed* in some thread from 2012 (of which he/ she didn't even support his/ her claim), correct?
 
I'll listen to the med student that is actually part of the school. same procedure that they follow on the Allo school board averages thread.

stay salty bro.
 
100111 said:
I'll listen to the med student that is actually part of the school. same procedure that they follow on the Allo school board averages thread.

stay salty bro.
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? It was a question, man. Odd that you got defensive.

I'll take your response to my question as, "Yes, that is correct."
 
99445 said:
Also UNECOM has a greater emphasis on primary care. I know this gets belabored and that I shouldn't be too concerned about match lists, but I feel like LECOM will provide better opportunities when it comes to rotating.
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Actually unecom match list has a huge array of specialties, so i dont think that should be a concern
 
Well, at least UNECOM doesn't have a "hate website."


(I have no idea if LECOM's hate website is entirely fictional or w/e, but their enforced dress code irritates me)
 
I could talk on and on about how amazing PBL at LECOM is, how I love the flexibility and essentially setting my own schedule, and how great it is that tuition is so cheap, and how awesome it is that I'm so close to home, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Go where you'll be the happiest. Med school isn't "fun" in the traditional sense. Its stressful, hard, painful, and at times demoralizing (its also amazing, crazy that you can fit so much in your brain, crazier that you can recall stuff months later, crazy to learn how the body actually works, etc.). Its better for you to be at an environment that will make you the happiest (one of the reasons I chose LECOM was proximity to my family).

Both schools are good, both are established, both will prepare you well for medicine (most of it is how much you put in anyways), so in the end what matters is where you think you'll be able to stay the most sane. You'll have similar opportunities coming out of either.

ChiTownBHawks said:
So, you have no actual school reported source for Lecom-b. Just what some random student *proclaimed* in some thread from 2012 (of which he/ she didn't even support his/ her claim), correct?
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Unfortunately, there aren't any really published or declared scores that are verified by some 3rd party, so even if schools did declare something, it would be hard to verify. I can say that from what I've heard pass rates for boards at LECOM-B is 99-100% every year, but that doesn't really tell you much. No idea what scores they actually get are. TCOM I'm sure has high scores, but who knows who's on top.
 
Hmm. I think a lot of the LECOM hate is from a few years back, you don't see many current students complaining, at least in my research.
Although if anyone has heard/read anything I would love to hear about it.
Im having a tough time with this as well. I have a friend at unecom and he loves the school and he only has good things to say about it. I like the curriculum and how much of an anatomy focus there is. Lecom does prosected cadavers in anatomy which im not overly fond of.
As many have said, you have the resources to be very successful at almost any accredited school, most of your individual success will be based on the amount of work that you put in.
Someone please give me a great reason to spend 20k less a year!!!
 
UNECOM by a mile. It was my second-favorite DO school... after where I currently am, of course. 😉

And don't worry about match lists: med school is what you make of it. Two of my mentors here are surgical subspecialists from UNE, and I know others who have been, likewise, very successful.

... I also like ME, but it's not for everyone.
 
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HippocratesHRC said:
Hmm. I think a lot of the LECOM hate is from a few years back, you don't see many current students complaining, at least in my research.
Although if anyone has heard/read anything I would love to hear about it.
Im having a tough time with this as well. I have a friend at unecom and he loves the school and he only has good things to say about it. I like the curriculum and how much of an anatomy focus there is. Lecom does prosected cadavers in anatomy which im not overly fond of.
As many have said, you have the resources to be very successful at almost any accredited school, most of your individual success will be based on the amount of work that you put in.
Someone please give me a great reason to spend 20k less a year!!!
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Like I said, its all about where you see yourself succeeding, and by that I don't mean the opportunities at the school, I mean where YOU would do your best. Sanity is key with medical school just to get through it. If you think you'll honestly be happier/more motivated/less distracted at a certain school, then it might be worth the extra money.

Again, if you want me to gush over LECOM, I can, but its not like what I say about how good of a choice it was for me matters to your decision, its all about what you think is the best fit.

Have you looked at rotation sites and the OPTIs at either? That might add another aspect to your decision depending if you'd want to do residency at one of the sites. Like I said though, especially when it comes to ACGME programs, its not going to matter which DO school you go to, and both will give you a good education/training.
 
From what ive heard from my friends who go to LECOM, the hate for LECOM is rather unwarranted. Besides the annoying dress code and the annoying mandatory lecture, (after long thought, I actually enjoy the gesture of these two ideas. It sucks now, but as a guy who struggles to get out of bed to go to pretty important voluntary lectures and hates dressing up, I think it will benefit me.) the curriculum is alright. They tell me that they have lots of time to go home and study cause of the PBL sole curriculum. Just some food for thought.
 
When you're considering LECOM, keep in mind that PBL is vastly different from the lecture pathway, LDP. The dress code, mandatory lecture, and no food/drink policy means something completely different to someone who's only on campus for four hours a week for PBL.
 
The hate for LECOM-E is partially unwarranted. The hate for LECOM-B is completely unwarranted. LECOM-B is very detached from the malignancy of Erie. So both schools don't allow you to go to school in pajamas...grow up people. LECOM-B does not equal LECOM-E. I honestly don't see why anyone would go to LECOM-E over LECOM-B unless you have an attachment to the great white north or if you demand a more firm clinical schedule. LECOM-B is in one of the most beautiful areas of the country with plenty of beautiful people, affordable, has a great staff, and unparalleled academic curriculum.
 
99445 said:
Also UNECOM has a greater emphasis on primary care. I know this gets belabored and that I shouldn't be too concerned about match lists, but I feel like LECOM will provide better opportunities when it comes to rotating.
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LECOM's match list only looks more impressive because they combine all 3 campuses. They have 3 times more students entering the match (in 2014) so they appear to match better. On a strictly percentage basis, LECOM doesn't really appear to match better than UNECOM in any specialties aside from Ortho surg, general surg (though even this is hard to say, as UNECOM only counts Categorical matches and LECOM could very well be counting prelims), and Rads. UNECOM performs better in EM and Anesthesia, as well as OF&P, derm, and Optho.

Don't look at raw numbers when comparing match lists. Look at percentages. A higher percentage of LECOM grads end up in IM, FM, and internships than UNECOM.
 
j4pac said:
The hate for LECOM-E is partially unwarranted. The hate for LECOM-B is completely unwarranted. LECOM-B is very detached from the malignancy of Erie. So both schools don't allow you to go to school in pajamas...grow up people. LECOM-B does not equal LECOM-E. I honestly don't see why anyone would go to LECOM-E over LECOM-B unless you have an attachment to the great white north or if you demand a more firm clinical schedule. LECOM-B is in one of the most beautiful areas of the country with plenty of beautiful people, affordable, has a great staff, and unparalleled academic curriculum.
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Florida...
67b.jpg
 
As much as I hate comparing match lists because in most ways they are used its useless, but it's been brought up, so here we go. LECOM doesn't combine everything so it looks more competitive, they do it for anonymity of their students. For the last couple years (since SH graduated its first class), the published placement reports have a table at the end that breaks up placement by campus and field. You can easily figure out percentages for each campus in each field, which is what I did below.

A few things to note:

1) LECOM doesn’t distinguish between pre-lim surg and gen surg, but again it's for anonymity. It does, however, list the number of pre-lim surg matches across all campuses. In 2014, there were 3 total out of 552 students. Even assuming they were all from one campus, it would change Gen Surg match rates by <2% at LECOM-B, ~1% at LECOM-E, or <3% at LECOM-SH. It's relatively negligible, even if you assume the worst and all 3 in 2014 came from one campus, which by itself is probably unlikely. In 2013 there were no students that did pre-lim surg only, so that doesn't really come into play.

2) All LECOM campuses are in states that require DOs to take a TRI in order to be licensed (PA and FL). That significantly skews the number of students who choose to do a TRI or go AOA, because many students are from those states or intend to stay in those states.

3) A snapshot of match lists (i.e. 1 yr) is not really useful. The reason is that there is normal variation year to year based on student interest. This is best exemplified by comparing the huge differences in the percent that go primary care vs. specialty year to year (I included 2013 to compare). From 2013 to 2014 the differences are pretty huge (5% in some fields, and up to 9% in some fields at some campuses. When you're dealing in numbers in the 2-20% range that's huge).

4) The majority of people at LECOM who do a TRI and almost all (if not all) of those that do a TY have something lined up for PGY2 or are applying AOA Derm, which you can only apply to in intern year. Some obviously don't, but the majority do. LECOM doesn't always separate them all out because its based on a combination of self-reporting and AOA match data, but this is based on what I've heard from the admins and students in those classes.

5) As I was doing this, I was reminded over and over how useless individual match lists are when you are looking at raw percentages. Bottom line, its kind of useless to look at percentages like these, unless maybe you combine the data from many years. Look at specifically where they are matching. Is that where you want to match? Maybe you can set up a connection with the alum that goes there. Beyond that, its not a good metric.

Match Percentages in 2013, 2014:

LECOM-B:
Anes: 6.6%, 3.6%
EM: 7.9%, 6.6%
FM: 17.9%, 13.3%
IM/EM: 0%, 0.6%
IM: 26.5%, 21.7%
Neuro: 2.6%, 2.4%
OB/GYN: 3.3%, 1.8%
ENT: 0%, 1.2%
Path: 1.3%, 0.6%
Peds: 7.9%, 6.6%
PM&R: 1.3%, 3.6%
Psych: 2.6%, 2.4%
Rads: 1.3%, 6.0%
Gen Surg: 3.3%, 7.2%
Neuro Surg: 0%, 1.2%
Ortho: 1.3%, 3.0%
TRI: 12.6%, 13.3%
TY: 2.0%, 4.8%

LECOM-E:
Anes: 4.1%, 2.8%
EM: 11.4%, 7.5%
EM/FM: 0.4%, 0%
FM: 19.9%, 22.1%
FM/NMM: 0.4%, 0.4%
FM/OMT: 0.4%, 0%
IM: 20.3%, 19.9%
IM/EM: 0.4%, 0%
IM/Peds: 0.4%, 0%
Neuro: 2.8%, 2.5%
OB/GYN: 3.3%, 2.5%
Ophtho: 0%, 0.7%
ENT: 0%, 0.4%
Path: 0.8%, 1.4%
Peds: 4.4%, 8.9%
PM&R: 0.8%, 1.4%
Psych: 2.0%, 4.6%
Rad Onc: 0.4%, 0.4%
Rads: 2.8%, 4.3%
Gen Surg: 3.3%, 3.2%
Uro: 0%, 0.4%
Neuro Surg: 0.8%, 0%
Ortho: 2.8%, 1.4%
TRI: 13.4%, 10.7%
TY: 4.5%, 4.3%

LECOM-SH:
Anes: 2.0%, 4.8%
EM: 12.0%, 7.6%
FM: 11.0%, 20.9%
IM/EM: 0%, 1.0%
IM: 15.0%, 20.9%
OB/GYN: 4.0%, 3.8%
Ophtho: 1.0%, 0%
ENT: 1.0%, 0%
Peds: 3.0%, 3.8%
Path: 3.0%, 0%
PM&R: 1.0%, 1.9%
Psych: 7.0%, 5.7%
Rads: 6.0%, 2.9%
Gen Surg: 8.0%, 5.7%
Neuro Surg: 0%, 1.0%
Ortho: 1.0%, 1.9%
TRI: 19.0%, 11.4%
TY: 6.0%, 5.7%

UNECOM 2013: *2014 isn't on their site and they don't give raw numbers only single digit percents
Anes: 6%
EM: 8%
FM: 20%
IM: 19%
OB/GYN: 2%
Peds: 10%
PM&R: 3%
Psych: 6%
Gen Surg: 5%
Ortho: 3%
"Transitional": 8%
"Other Specialties": 6%
4% - missing, maybe due to rounding

At first glance it looks like LECOM grads place in a bigger variety of places, but this is hard to say, because it could just be a numbers things (more people, more variety) and UNECOM doesn't really publish the smaller percentages and places them all in an "Other specialties" category, so its not like that's certain.

To compare UNECOM to LECOM-E in 2013:
Anes: 6% to 4.1%
EM: 8% to 11.4%
FM: 20% to 19.9%
IM: 19% to 20.3%
OB/GYN: 2% to 3.3%
Peds: 10% to 4.4%
PM&R: 3% to 0.8%
Psych: 6% to 2.0%
Gen Surg: 5% to 3.3%
Ortho: 3% to 2.8%

Looking at the numbers, it feels like they are all pretty close. Is the 8% vs. 11.4% significant in EM when LECOM-E had 7.5% the next year, probably not. Is the Psych 6% vs. 2.0% significant considering LECOM-E had 4.6% in Psych the next year, probably not. You see my point.

As far as internships go, like I mentioned above, you will have more people going to TRIs and more people going to AOA residencies with LECOM, because both FL and PA require the TRI or "AOA equivalent" for licensure. Apparently, some local ACGME programs don't even interview DOs unless they're in a TRI or have completed one (I just stumbled upon that info for some ACGME Gen Surg positions in my area). For some reason, they don't accommodate for Res42.

In the end this (a match list) is not a good metric to compare different schools, unless like I said, you are interested in a specific program. To give you an example, so far UPMC has taken a LECOM grad for Rad Onc in 2013 and 2014. If you were interested in Rad Onc (ridiculously competitive and virtually impossible as a DO), you might think LECOM would be a good choice, because UPMC is comfortable with LECOM grads and you would probably be able to get some sort of connections through the current alums that are there, provided you are crazy competitive.
 
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hallowmann said:
As much as I hate comparing match lists because in most ways they are used its useless, but it's been brought up, so here we go. LECOM doesn't combine everything so it looks more competitive, they do it for anonymity of their students. For the last couple years (since SH graduated its first class), the published placement reports have a table at the end that breaks up placement by campus and field. You can easily figure out percentages for each campus in each field, which is what I did below.

A few things to note:

1) LECOM doesn’t distinguish between pre-lim surg and gen surg, but again it's for anonymity. It does, however, list the number of pre-lim surg matches across all campuses. In 2014, there were 3 total out of 552 students. Even assuming they were all from one campus, it would change Gen Surg match rates by <2% at LECOM-B, ~1% at LECOM-E, or <3% at LECOM-SH. It's relatively negligible, even if you assume the worst and all 3 in 2014 came from one campus, which by itself is probably unlikely. In 2013 there were no students that did pre-lim surg only, so that doesn't really come into play.

2) All LECOM campuses are in states that require DOs to take a TRI in order to be licensed (PA and FL). That significantly skews the number of students who choose to do a TRI or go AOA, because many students are from those states or intend to stay in those states.

3) A snapshot of match lists (i.e. 1 yr) is not really useful. The reason is that there is normal variation year to year based on student interest. This is best exemplified by comparing the huge differences in the percent that go primary care vs. specialty year to year (I included 2013 to compare). From 2013 to 2014 the differences are pretty huge (5% in some fields, and up to 9% in some fields at some campuses. When you're dealing in numbers in the 2-20% range that's huge).

4) The majority of people at LECOM who do a TRI and almost all (if not all) of those that do a TY have something lined up for PGY2 or are applying AOA Derm, which you can only apply to in intern year. Some obviously don't, but the majority do. LECOM doesn't always separate them all out because its based on a combination of self-reporting and AOA match data, but this is based on what I've heard from the admins and students in those classes.

5) As I was doing this, I was reminded over and over how useless individual match lists are when you are looking at raw percentages. Bottom line, its kind of useless to look at percentages like these, unless maybe you combine the data from many years. Look at specifically where they are matching. Is that where you want to match? Maybe you can set up a connection with the alum that goes there. Beyond that, its not a good metric.

Match Percentages in 2013, 2014:

LECOM-B:
Anes: 6.6%, 3.6%
EM: 7.9%, 6.6%
FM: 17.9%, 13.3%
IM/EM: 0%, 0.6%
IM: 26.5%, 21.7%
Neuro: 2.6%, 2.4%
OB/GYN: 3.3%, 1.8%
ENT: 0%, 1.2%
Path: 1.3%, 0.6%
Peds: 7.9%, 6.6%
PM&R: 1.3%, 3.6%
Psych: 2.6%, 2.4%
Rads: 1.3%, 6.0%
Gen Surg: 3.3%, 7.2%
Neuro Surg: 0%, 1.2%
Ortho: 1.3%, 3.0%
TRI: 12.6%, 13.3%
TY: 2.0%, 4.8%

LECOM-E:
Anes: 4.1%, 2.8%
EM: 11.4%, 7.5%
EM/FM: 0.4%, 0%
FM: 19.9%, 22.1%
FM/NMM: 0.4%, 0.4%
FM/OMT: 0.4%, 0%
IM: 20.3%, 19.9%
IM/EM: 0.4%, 0%
IM/Peds: 0.4%, 0%
Neuro: 2.8%, 2.5%
OB/GYN: 3.3%, 2.5%
Ophtho: 0%, 0.7%
ENT: 0%, 0.4%
Path: 0.8%, 1.4%
Peds: 4.4%, 8.9%
PM&R: 0.8%, 1.4%
Psych: 2.0%, 4.6%
Rad Onc: 0.4%, 0.4%
Rads: 2.8%, 4.3%
Gen Surg: 3.3%, 3.2%
Uro: 0%, 0.4%
Neuro Surg: 0.8%, 0%
Ortho: 2.8%, 1.4%
TRI: 13.4%, 10.7%
TY: 4.5%, 4.3%

LECOM-SH:
Anes: 2.0%, 4.8%
EM: 12.0%, 7.6%
FM: 11.0%, 20.9%
IM/EM: 0%, 1.0%
IM: 15.0%, 20.9%
OB/GYN: 4.0%, 3.8%
Ophtho: 1.0%, 0%
ENT: 1.0%, 0%
Peds: 3.0%, 3.8%
Path: 3.0%, 0%
PM&R: 1.0%, 1.9%
Psych: 7.0%, 5.7%
Rads: 6.0%, 2.9%
Gen Surg: 8.0%, 5.7%
Neuro Surg: 0%, 1.0%
Ortho: 1.0%, 1.9%
TRI: 19.0%, 11.4%
TY: 6.0%, 5.7%

UNECOM 2013: *2014 isn't on their site and they don't give raw numbers only single digit percents
Anes: 6%
EM: 8%
FM: 20%
IM: 19%
OB/GYN: 2%
Peds: 10%
PM&R: 3%
Psych: 6%
Gen Surg: 5%
Ortho: 3%
"Transitional": 8%
"Other Specialties": 6%
4% - missing, maybe due to rounding

At first glance it looks like LECOM grads place in a bigger variety of places, but this is hard to say, because it could just be a numbers things (more people, more variety) and UNECOM doesn't really publish the smaller percentages and places them all in an "Other specialties" category, so its not like that's certain.

To compare UNECOM to LECOM-E in 2013:
Anes: 6% to 4.1%
EM: 8% to 11.4%
FM: 20% to 19.9%
IM: 19% to 20.3%
OB/GYN: 2% to 3.3%
Peds: 10% to 4.4%
PM&R: 3% to 0.8%
Psych: 6% to 2.0%
Gen Surg: 5% to 3.3%
Ortho: 3% to 2.8%

Looking at the numbers, it feels like they are all pretty close. Is the 8% vs. 11.4% significant in EM when LECOM-E had 7.5% the next year, probably not. Is the Psych 6% vs. 2.0% significant considering LECOM-E had 4.6% in Psych the next year, probably not. You see my point.

As far as internships go, like I mentioned above, you will have more people going to TRIs and more people going to AOA residencies with LECOM, because both FL and PA require the TRI or "AOA equivalent" for licensure. Apparently, some local ACGME programs don't even interview DOs unless they're in a TRI or have completed one (I just stumbled upon that info for some ACGME Gen Surg positions in my area). For some reason, they don't accommodate for Res42.

In the end this (a match list) is not a good metric to compare different schools, unless like I said, you are interested in a specific program. To give you an example, so far UPMC has taken a LECOM grad for Rad Onc in 2013 and 2014. If you were interested in Rad Onc (ridiculously competitive and virtually impossible as a DO), you might think LECOM would be a good choice, because UPMC is comfortable with LECOM grads and you would probably be able to get some sort of connections through the current alums that are there, provided you are crazy competitive.
Click to expand...
I've got the most recent match list at home, I'll try and do a more recent update of 2014 vs 2014. Not that it much matters- matches very a LOT year-to-year, and 2014 was a very good match year for us. It will certainly show that there is a lot of variability and that you can do a lot of things from a given school though- we had matches in derm and OFPS, as well as a vascular match if I remember correctly.

A big problem with UNECOM's match lists is that they do not show how many students matched at a given site, so it's really hard to have an apples-to-apples comparison. Basically, the match lists are very comparable, except LECOM seems to have a lot more students going into rads in a given year. My point isn't so much that UNECOM or LECOM has a superior or inferior match list, but moreso that the match lists are similar enough that they shouldn't matter (something I'm sure Hallowman gets, but just a clarification for the OP).

So far as PBL versus TBL (UNECOM's curriculum), they're pretty much identical except we have lectures if you want to attend them that are completely optional. We have a weekly case, we have CMAPping case sessions with our small groups, etc. But at UNECOM, you can do it PBL-style or as a traditional lecture-based curriculum at your discretion- no one cares if you choose to go to lecture or not. We've also got a very intense anatomy curriculum care of our excellent team of anatomists (Willard, Scheunke, Tucker, and all of the fellows and ancillary anatomy staff are excellent), so if you're into anatomy, I'd highly recommend UNECOM (but be ready for the pain, because they make you know errything).
 
So I'm having trouble deciding between either school. I'm okay with LECOM's pbl curriculum and business casual attire, but I just think it's really sketch that they do so well on their boards and people aren't flocking to the school. And floridans tend to chose nova from the sounds of it. But the IS tuition is very appealing. I also liked UNE a lot but it's more expensive and a big move. I also am waiting on three other schools (OOS-MD) but I probably won't hear back till after my deposit is due. Which is another issue since $500 vs $1500 deposit.
 
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