Legal Question

[I'mJustCurious]

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I'm assuming this isn't your typical legal question but... Over the summer I had the chance to shadow a family doctor. On one occasion, after shadowing for a month, he/she let me go in one of the room by myself and ask questions to the patient (I learned how to ask questions and record notes).

Basically, I was wondering if this was legal or not because it was really a meaningful moment of my shadowing experience and I wanted to share that at interviews. So am I be able to share this moment without getting the doctor in trouble? Thank you.

 

[yanks26dmb]

I have no idea if this is legal or not...but as a patient I'd be pissed if a random person (not even a medical student) was taking a history from me without a doctor present.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

I have no idea if this is legal or not...but as a patient I'd be pissed if a random person (not even a medical student) was taking a history from me without a doctor present.

Before I sat down and talked to the patient, I introduced myself as a premed student and asked if I had their permission to talk to them. The doctor that I was shadowing knew the patient very well and knew that the patient was going to be OK with me. Plus the doctor knew why the patient was there and what they needed. So in a way the doctor knew ahead of time before sending me in.

 

[sandstorm223]

That was absolutely not legal! But if nobody in the situation cares, it doesn't matter so much whether it's legal or not 😉

 

[OrdinaryDO]

That was absolutely not legal! But if nobody in the situation cares, it doesn't matter so much whether it's legal or not 😉

What are you claiming to be illegal? The only thing that would be touchy, given the HIPAA Law, is if he/she shared confidential information with other people without written permission from the patient. He/She interviewing the patient is in no way illegal. Sorry if that is what you meant, it wasn't clear to me.

I'm assuming this isn't your typical legal question but... Over the summer I had the chance to shadow a family doctor. On one occasion, after shadowing for a month, he/she let me go in one of the room by myself and ask questions to the patient (I learned how to ask questions and record notes).

Basically, I was wondering if this was legal or not because it was really a meaningful moment of my shadowing experience and I wanted to share that at interviews. So am I be able to share this moment without getting the doctor in trouble? Thank you.

You can share your experience and what you have learned from the experience - I actually put something similar to this in my personal statement. The only thing you should not do is give away revealing personal details about the patient. Other than that, you are A-OK.

 

[austintr]

Agree with ordinaryDO...just because you talked to a patient without a physician present, does not in and of itself constitute a breach of the law or even ethical standards. It sounds like this was well thought out by the doctor, and as long as you didn't perform any sort of procedure or give advice that you are not legally allowed to give (which you did not mention you did) then it certainly isn't illegal. It sounds to me like this was just a situation that the doctor thought you could benefit from without having any actual impact on the patient in any way...it would be like getting a medical history from a simulated patient/friend since your interaction had no actual bearing on the care of the patient.

 

[austintr]

I agree completely...there definitely isn't any legal or ethical issue here, in my opinion.

 

[Medschoolornah]

You doing this is no advantage and it MAY reflect poorly.


Just say you shadowed.

 

[DrMikeP]

I'd probably talk about my experience speaking with a patient and gathering history and how that was very personally and professionally meaningful. There was likely nothing done that was unethical or illegal from what you've said, but do you want the interview to go down that path???

As an interviewer, my question to you would be what made the patient interaction a really meaningful experience? (I'm hoping it had something to do with the patient relationship vs just you being alone.)

 

[22031 Alum]

You could talk about the impact that speaking with the patient had on you. Or even mention that the doctor you shadowed helped you learn the ins and outs of taking a history. All of this can be done without specifically stating that you were alone in the room with the patient. While I'm sure it was awesome for you, it isn't all that impressive. Certainly not impressive enough to risk the possibility, however small, of someone seeing it as unethical.

 

[mathnerd88]

Life lesson: Don't dig yourself in a deeper hole by trotting on murky waters.

Say as little as possible in your interview to convey yourself. It works every time. The more you talk, the more likely you set yourself up for failure. You can convey your message without talking about you being alone with the patient and taking patient history.

 

[GatorsKW14]

The issue with a pre-medical student taking a medical history is that they don't have the background to know what questions to ask or which part of the patient's history is relevant. Many conditions present with symptoms that the average person would not associate with their other symptoms. If you didn't specifically ask about that symptom, a patient may not mention it and lead you towards the wrong diagnosis. If the doctor relies on your interview, then charts as if he took the history and signs his name, what do you think is going to happen if the person ends up dying or having some sort of complications because of it? A lawsuit! Obviously this would be an extreme example, but this is why physicians normally don't (and should not) allow pre-meds to do their job for them. It's a different story if the doctor did his full interview of the patient and then let you go in by yourself for fun, but that doesn't sound to be the case. If he did take his own history, I still highly recommend not talking about that during an interview because it will not impress anyone, and could possibly hurt you.

 

[costales]

Mention that there was prior informed consent, in case someone raises an eyebrow. (It is highly unorthodox for a physician to let a premed interview a patient unsupervised in a shadowing arrangement.)

 

[22031 Alum]

Mention that there was prior informed consent, in case someone raises an eyebrow. (It is highly unorthodox for a physician to let a premed interview a patient unsupervised in a shadowing arrangement.)

Again there is no need to be so specific in the first place. As formative as this experience may have been for OP it doesn't actually warrant anything but the vaguest mention as I described above. I can't think of much that sounds lamer than "informed consent was obtained before I took the patient history."

 

[yanks26dmb]

As above, as long as you were aware and followed HIPPA, you wouldnt be violating any law. I am sure many people in this country who are led to a treatment room by a member of a doctor's staff would be surprised to find many of these who take your name, weight, perhaps vitals, may have no certification of any kind.

.

I would go even further and say it would be ethical as the OP stated he/she introduced him/herself as a premedical student shadowing the doctor prior to medical student. If the patient had objected and the premed persisted that would start bordering on unethical behavior

I'd say those other people working in the doctor's office know HIPPA, to an extent. Or there is at least reasonable expectation that they do.

A pre-med student may very well have no idea what HIPPA is. As a result, he may have no idea what he can and cannot share with others. Along with that, what if the patient mentioned something to the student in passing, that ended up having serious consequences to the patient if not relayed to the doctor?

Again, I have no idea if this is legal or not, but seems to be a very slippery slope.

 

[GatorsKW14]

I'd say those other people working in the doctor's office know HIPPA, to an extent. Or there is at least reasonable expectation that they do.

A pre-med student may very well have no idea what HIPPA is. As a result, he may have no idea what he can and cannot share with others. Along with that, what if the patient mentioned something to the student in passing, that ended up having serious consequences to the patient if not relayed to the doctor?

Again, I have no idea if this is legal or not, but seems to be a very slippery slope.

HIPAA is not really the issue here since it comes into play way before someone talks to a patient. You can be shadowing a physician-patient interaction (with no communication with the patient) and still be expected to keep patient information confidential... you are hearing all of the personal information that the patient is sharing with their doctor. In hospitals and most doctor's offices, a student wishing to shadow or volunteer has to sign paperwork stating that they understand patient confidentiality policies. And yes, every single employee at a doctor's office will be required to know HIPAA. The difference with medical staff obtaining patient information/history is that they are employed by the physician, have specific responsibilities and limitations, and any information that they obtain will be documented in the EMR under their name.

 

[Pisiform]

Not illegal kid. Thats how you learn.

 

[doctorbob23]

If the patient consented it's not illegal. You don't have to mention you were alone with the patient just write what you learned and how it will make you a better Doctor.