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And how does that work if I correctly indicate that I have never been convicted of a crime? It is my understanding that these records will not be included on a background check.
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You'd be DOA at my school. Many schools will ask if you've been arrested.I wanted to know if anyone has any insight in the background procedures for primary and secondary applications.
Here's my situation. I was charged with aggravated battery when I was 17 and the charge was dismissed. When I was 20, I was charged with one count of terroristic threats (a felony), 2 counts of obstruction of justice, underage drinking, and disorderly conduct. The felony charge was dropped, and on the remaining charges, I plead guiltily under the condition that I would be treated as a first offender, and the charges I pled guilty to will not be characterized as crimes in which I was convicted of, but rather crimes that resulted in deferred adjudication, sealed, and only accessible to law enforcement.
I understand that I can say I have never been convicted of a crime. But what is the best way to handle this on secondaries? I am leaning towards being upfront as possible because I rather know as soon as possible what the verdict is. I know that even though these records might be sealed, someone could still easily find this information. Thanks in advance for any advice you guys may have.
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I think I've seen this on some kind of application in my life (though I can't remember for what), but I've always wondered how this is legitimate.You'd be DOA at my school. Many schools will ask if you've been arrested.
Excellent points, but in the OP's case...two arrests?????? And for crimes against persons???I think I've seen this on some kind of application in my life (though I can't remember for what), but I've always wondered how this is legitimate.
Anyone could theoretically be arrested for anything by mistake. The legal bar for arrest is a LOT lower than conviction. Mistaken identity, overzealous officers, whatever.
How does one justify judging candidates with regards to a crime that they (by definition) haven't been convicted of?
Note: I would only include distant arrests that were later dropped here. Obviously, if you were arrested a couple weeks ago and are out on bail pending trial, that's a very different picture than an arrest years back.
I think that you're far safer at schools that do not ask for arrests. Beyond that, I can't say. What would a Certiphi search yield? The problems med schools face is whether or not you'd fail background checks at hospitals. Hence, the advice to seek legal counsel is very wise.Thanks for your input. Would you considered that my chances at many schools are already eliminated simply by the nature and quantity of charges, regardless of conviction?
So between the MD and DO boards, there's >70 medical boards in this country. I can't speak to all of them, but I can discuss the few where I've gotten licenses:I'm not fully understanding you. Are arrests treated the same as convictions then? I have no problem disclosing the truth. But it seems like regardless of a conviction, I could be denied entry into medical school or barred from obtaining a license. Neither of these instances will result in a conviction, regardless if they are removed from my record or not. But when confronted with the question about arrest, regardless if I have these sealed or removed from my record, I will not lie. But what's the point of asking for arrests if they don't have an impact? And if they do have any impact whatsoever, then for all intents and purposes, they must be viewed in a similar manner as convictions, or no?
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42. Have you ever been convicted of, or pled guilty or nolo contendere to ANY offense in the United States, its territories, or a foreign country?
This includes every citation, infraction, misdemeanor and/or felony, including traffic violations. Convictions that were adjudicated in the juvenile court or convictions under California Health and Safety Code sections 11357(b), (c), (d), (e), or section 11360(b) which are two years or older should NOT be reported. Convictions that were later expunged from the record of the court or set aside pursuant to section 1203.4 of the California Penal Code or equivalent non- California law MUST be disclosed.
43. Exclusive of juvenile court adjudications and criminal charges dismissed under section 1000.3 of the California Penal Code or equivalent non-California laws, or convictions under California Health and Safety Code section 11357(b), (c), (d), (e), or section 11360(b) which are two years or older, have you had a charge or conviction that was set aside or later expunged from the record of the court?
44. Is any criminal action pending against you, or are you currently awaiting judgment and sentencing following entry of a plea or jury verdict?
45. Are you a registered sex offender?
You have no choice but to be as upfront as possible, and you can try to use secondaries to explain your behaviors in a way that suggests personal growth of the sort that guarantees no such future behaviors will be forthcoming. You don't indicate your current age, but hopefully enough time has passed between your transgressions and now that your certitude in guaranteeing no further incidents will be given some weight.I wanted to know if anyone has any insight in the background procedures for primary and secondary applications.
Here's my situation. I was charged with aggravated battery when I was 17 and the charge was dismissed. When I was 20, I was charged with one count of terroristic threats (a felony), 2 counts of obstruction of justice, underage drinking, and disorderly conduct. The felony charge was dropped, and on the remaining charges, I plead guiltily under the condition that I would be treated as a first offender, and the charges I pled guilty to will not be characterized as crimes in which I was convicted of, but rather crimes that resulted in deferred adjudication, sealed, and only accessible to law enforcement.
I understand that I can say I have never been convicted of a crime. But what is the best way to handle this on secondaries? I am leaning towards being upfront as possible because I rather know as soon as possible what the verdict is. I know that even though these records might be sealed, someone could still easily find this information. Thanks in advance for any advice you guys may have.
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While I think your points are well taken, I also think you need to consider the following: Most people, the legal facts notwithstanding, will immediately focus on any mention of misdeeds, and the actual disposition of your case (dismissal, expungement, whatever) will become subordinate to the emotional/visceral reaction likely to occur when reading your application.Thank you for your response. Please don't think I'm disagreeing but I do want clarification. You say that these instances "show pattern of poor behavior". Isn't that what a jury determines and a conviction is indicative of? An arrest, in my view, is nothing more than a suspicion of poor behavior. I won't get into the details of these cases, but I will ask that if charges are dismissed/discharged, in the absence of a conviction, how does that prove or show poor behavior?
Again, please don't think I'm disagreeing with your assessment. I'm just wondering if you agree with my definitions. And if so, would you not be concluding that arrests are weighted the same as convictions for all intents and purposes? In the very least, are you concluding that suspicion or accusations alone will be enough to prevent me from becoming a physician? Is this how adcoms and board members will view my disclosure of arrests?
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Yes, these instances show a pattern of poor behavior; some type of incidence involving battery followed by some instance involving disorderly conduct, terrorist threats, etc. These documented events are support that there are likely underlying issues here, conviction or no conviction. The fact that you plead guilty in one case tells me you weren't an innocent bystander just trying to help.Thank you for your response. Please don't think I'm disagreeing but I do want clarification. You say that these instances "show pattern of poor behavior". Isn't that what a jury determines and a conviction is indicative of? An arrest, in my view, is nothing more than a suspicion of poor behavior. I won't get into the details of these cases, but I will ask that if charges are dismissed/discharged, in the absence of a conviction, how does that prove or show poor behavior?
Again, please don't think I'm disagreeing with your assessment. I'm just wondering if you agree with my definitions. And if so, would you not be concluding that arrests are weighted the same as convictions for all intents and purposes? In the very least, are you concluding that suspicion or accusations alone will be enough to prevent me from becoming a physician? Is this how adcoms and board members will view my disclosure of arrests?
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Thank you for your response. Please don't think I'm disagreeing but I do want clarification. You say that these instances "show pattern of poor behavior". Isn't that what a jury determines and a conviction is indicative of? An arrest, in my view, is nothing more than a suspicion of poor behavior. I won't get into the details of these cases, but I will ask that if charges are dismissed/discharged, in the absence of a conviction, how does that prove or show poor behavior?
Again, please don't think I'm disagreeing with your assessment. I'm just wondering if you agree with my definitions. And if so, would you not be concluding that arrests are weighted the same as convictions for all intents and purposes? In the very least, are you concluding that suspicion or accusations alone will be enough to prevent me from becoming a physician? Is this how adcoms and board members will view my disclosure of arrests?
The entire discussion is getting pretty ridiculous/judgmental. I'll give you some practical advice:
1) Don't report the dismissed charges from age 17 at all
2) Ask your lawyer whether any of the charges from age 20 technically, legally count as being convicted of a crime. If the answer is yes, report them with a simple explanation of the circumstances. If the answer is no, don't report them. Get this answer in writing, because your phrasing above (that you pled guilty but this doesn't count as a conviction) doesn't make any sense to me, and you want the right legalese to back you up if there's ever any kind of question about it.
3) If you apply to a school that explicitly asks about arrests and not convictions (which as far as I know isn't a question on AMCAS, though I'll admit it has been a decade since I filled out AMCAS), you can either report the information or just withdraw and save yourself a secondary fee. Just don't lie.
As far as I'm aware, the vast majority of schools do not ask explicitly about arrests, only convictions. For those, you'll only need to report something if "deferred adjudication" means you might technically have been convicted. I have no clue whatsoever whether this is the case. If you do have to report them, it will hurt your chances. But people have been admitted with black marks on their record before, and without you giving all of the specifics there's no way for us to adjudicate just what your chances might be.
This is America, and at least some of us still believe in the principle that someone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Many people discriminate against felons above and beyond what would be appropriate (that's just my opinion), but if you were never convicted, you were never convicted. Period.
To follow up on this and Raryn's comments, medical schools are not courts of law, and there is no right to go to med school.
California Residents Please do not provide any information concerning a misdemeanor or infraction marijuana conviction that occurred more than two (2) years from today's date and specifically HS11357(b) or (c), HS11360(b), HS11364, HS11365, or HS11550 as they related to marijuana before January 1, 1976 and their statutory predecessors.
• Connecticut Residents
Pursuant to CT Public Act No. 02-136 and specifically Section 31-51i of the general statutes: I understand that I am not required to disclose the existence of any arrest, criminal charge or conviction, the records of which have been erased pursuant to Section 46b – 146, 54-76o, or 54- 142a; that criminal records subject to erasure pursuant to Section 46b – 146, 54-76o, or 54-142a are records pertaining to finding a delinquency or that a child was a member of a family with service needs, an adjudication as a youthful offender, a criminal charge that has been dismissed or annulled, a criminal charge for which the person has been found not guilty or a conviction for which the person received an absolute pardon; and, that any person whose criminal records have been erased pursuant to Section 46b – 146, 54-76o, or 54-142a shall be deemed to have ever been arrested within the meaning of the general statutes with respect to the proceedings so erased and may so swear under oath.
District of Columbia Residents Do not identify convictions that are more than ten (10) years old.
• Georgia Residents Do not identify any guilty plea that was discharged by a court under Georgia’s First Offender’s Act.
• Illinois Residents Applicants are not obligated to disclose sealed or expunged records of conviction or arrests.
• Applicants to Schools in Massachusetts: Because Massachusetts educational institutions are prohibited from requesting information from you concerning certain misdemeanor crimes, your response to the above question will not be provided to medical schools in Massachusetts. Note: Medical schools in Massachusetts typically collect misdemeanor information via their secondary or supplemental applications. In addition, the AAMC recommends that all medical schools conduct a criminal background check on applicants at the time of acceptance. • Nevada Residents Only report those convictions that occurred within the past seven years.
• New Hampshire Residents Only report those convictions that have taken place in the past seven years. Convictions, which have been annulled, will not necessarily disqualify you from employment.
• New York Residents Do not disclose information regarding any criminal proceeding that terminated in a “youthful offender adjudication,” as defined in Section 720.35 of the New York Criminal Procedure Law.”
• Oregon Residents Do not provide information concerning a juvenile record that has been expunged.
• Washington Residents Limit your answer to conviction for which the date of conviction or prison release, whichever is more recent, is within ten (10) years of today’s date.
Interesting, in my (admittedly quite limited and not first-hand) knowledge about a stay of proceedings based on a "good behavior" agreement, the defendant did not have to enter any sort of plea.In this case the OP has enter a plea of guilty in a court of law. The court has decided to continue the case by deferring adjudication or in other words continuing the case without final decision pending the outcome of whatever the OP has agreed to, usually staying out of trouble for a set period of time. The analogy would be the court has given the OP a grade of incomplete with final grade being withheld until later. That grade will be either a pass (no conviction) or a fail (conviction). Dont confuse with entering a plea of guilty with be being convicted of a crime.