Legal Record Question

[EmbarassingQuestion]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I'm a nontrad applicant who had a rough adolescence, but turned it around. I've dedicated most of the last decade to improving myself and helping others, and my dream is to capstone that experience by becoming an MD. So far, everything looks like that might actually be a realistic goal. I caught another thread, however, which has me worried about my legal record from my youth.

I saw there are a couple threads from previous years where people discussed this, but I have some additional questions. I hope I can get guidance on those, and perhaps clarification of how previous advice might apply in my case.

So the quick-and-dirty rundown is that I had two legal cases in my past: one drug felony, and one misdemeanor DUI. Both were around 15 years ago, diverted successfully, and later expunged. This is where I feel like it's difficult to tell what to do. The wording in my orders of expungement stipulate that "the petitioner shall be treated as not having been arrested, convicted or diverted of the crime..." except in several cases which are outlined clearly, and come nowhere close to either applying to med school or applying for licensing.

I have read that AMCAS does not require disclosure of expunged records, so I looked up my local state licensing paperwork, and their application question says, "Have you ever been found guilty after trial, or pleaded guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to a crime (felony or misdemeanor) in any court?" My understanding is that the wording of my court orders allow me to answer "No" to that question as asked.

Other threads have stated that a licensing board would have the ability to pull expunged records, but on the basis of their wording, that does not seem indicated. I was also wondering, is it possible to obtain a report about yourself from Certiphi, or is there a company which produces very similar reports for individual consumers, so I might know in advance what I might need to explain, regardless of legality?

That last question stems from another issue I hoped to get clarification on. I saw in other threads that people mentioned arrest records surviving the expungement process. Would it be worth contacting my attorney and starting a separate process to seal any remaining arrest records? My concern is that if a licensing board really does have the ability to obtain expunged documents (which still seems unlikely to me, as I don't see any wording anywhere granting them any such authority), then is there any point in sealing anything?

Thank you for reading this far. I will be deeply grateful for any guidance you folks can provide.

 

[ciestar]

Based on what i do know, a federal database can absolutely get expunged records.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I think this is a more complicated legal question that would be better left to an attorney - preferably someone with experience in the area of medical licensing.

 

[puahate]

Definitely talk to an attorney. This is way more complicated than what most people can answer. Don't listen to SDN lawyers here

 

[Med Ed]

I'm a nontrad applicant who had a rough adolescence, but turned it around. I've dedicated most of the last decade to improving myself and helping others, and my dream is to capstone that experience by becoming an MD. So far, everything looks like that might actually be a realistic goal. I caught another thread, however, which has me worried about my legal record from my youth.

I saw there are a couple threads from previous years where people discussed this, but I have some additional questions. I hope I can get guidance on those, and perhaps clarification of how previous advice might apply in my case.

So the quick-and-dirty rundown is that I had two legal cases in my past: one drug felony, and one misdemeanor DUI. Both were around 15 years ago, diverted successfully, and later expunged. This is where I feel like it's difficult to tell what to do. The wording in my orders of expungement stipulate that "the petitioner shall be treated as not having been arrested, convicted or diverted of the crime..." except in several cases which are outlined clearly, and come nowhere close to either applying to med school or applying for licensing.

I have read that AMCAS does not require disclosure of expunged records, so I looked up my local state licensing paperwork, and their application question says, "Have you ever been found guilty after trial, or pleaded guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to a crime (felony or misdemeanor) in any court?" My understanding is that the wording of my court orders allow me to answer "No" to that question as asked.

Other threads have stated that a licensing board would have the ability to pull expunged records, but on the basis of their wording, that does not seem indicated. I was also wondering, is it possible to obtain a report about yourself from Certiphi, or is there a company which produces very similar reports for individual consumers, so I might know in advance what I might need to explain, regardless of legality?

That last question stems from another issue I hoped to get clarification on. I saw in other threads that people mentioned arrest records surviving the expungement process. Would it be worth contacting my attorney and starting a separate process to seal any remaining arrest records? My concern is that if a licensing board really does have the ability to obtain expunged documents (which still seems unlikely to me, as I don't see any wording anywhere granting them any such authority), then is there any point in sealing anything?

Thank you for reading this far. I will be deeply grateful for any guidance you folks can provide.

Agree with the others, talk to an attorney. Unfortunately, you may get different answers depending on who you speak to. The zone between "pretend it never happened" and "tell us everything" continues to be gray.

As a preliminary step, you can obtain your own FBI report (My FBI Report - Home Page is one company that provides this service), and you can request whatever criminal records exist for you from the state(s) where your legal cases occurred. Many people think there is a comprehensive national database of criminal records, but in reality there is a patchwork of local, state, and national systems, which can make it confusing to discern what records exists, where they are located, and who can see which ones. Good luck.

 

[EmbarassingQuestion]

That's fair, and of course my attorney was the first person I asked. His exact words were, "no, you don't have to disclose anything unless the wording specifically directs you to." He did mention, however, that he doesn't know if there are special cases attached to some state medical licensing processes. I'm a bit worried that even if a medical school or state board disagrees with my attorney, I might be ass-out even if I really do have the right of it.

Further, I followed my attorney's guidance when I applied to my current job. Right now, I have an entry-level job in healthcare which required fingerprinting and full background check. I didn't disclose anything, per my attorney's advice, and I never heard anything about it. Although, I don't know if that's because the records really aren't visible, or because the company hiring me didn't feel they had a case for using any information they found.

So, here's my amended plan, please tell me if this sounds reasonable. I've paid the $18 to get fingerprinted again and get the full FBI background check run on myself, for my own records. Surely there is no treatment more in depth than that, right? I'll plan to discuss anything that might be visible on that report. I am also going to try shooting an email to my state licensing board, asking for specific guidance on the case of orders of expungement. Does that sound like it reasonably covers all bases?

 

[EmbarassingQuestion]

Ah, excellent. Sorry, I was typing the previous response as that last feedback came in. So, I am getting the FBI report now, for sure. Gonnif, if I could ask the obligatory follow-up question: are schools really so harsh as to dismiss a history like mine, even with all the mitigating factors like the disposition, length of intervening time, etc.? I know the answer is probably "of course they are," but that seems so unreasonable for things some 15 years in the past.

 

[EmbarassingQuestion]

Ha! You're right of course, Gonnif. Thank you, that was absolutely what I needed to hear. I don't know what's going to happen, but I didn't make it this far with a willingness to give up.

 

[Goro]

I'm a nontrad applicant who had a rough adolescence, but turned it around. I've dedicated most of the last decade to improving myself and helping others, and my dream is to capstone that experience by becoming an MD. So far, everything looks like that might actually be a realistic goal. I caught another thread, however, which has me worried about my legal record from my youth.

I saw there are a couple threads from previous years where people discussed this, but I have some additional questions. I hope I can get guidance on those, and perhaps clarification of how previous advice might apply in my case.

So the quick-and-dirty rundown is that I had two legal cases in my past: one drug felony, and one misdemeanor DUI. Both were around 15 years ago, diverted successfully, and later expunged. This is where I feel like it's difficult to tell what to do. The wording in my orders of expungement stipulate that "the petitioner shall be treated as not having been arrested, convicted or diverted of the crime..." except in several cases which are outlined clearly, and come nowhere close to either applying to med school or applying for licensing.

I have read that AMCAS does not require disclosure of expunged records, so I looked up my local state licensing paperwork, and their application question says, "Have you ever been found guilty after trial, or pleaded guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to a crime (felony or misdemeanor) in any court?" My understanding is that the wording of my court orders allow me to answer "No" to that question as asked.

Other threads have stated that a licensing board would have the ability to pull expunged records, but on the basis of their wording, that does not seem indicated. I was also wondering, is it possible to obtain a report about yourself from Certiphi, or is there a company which produces very similar reports for individual consumers, so I might know in advance what I might need to explain, regardless of legality?

That last question stems from another issue I hoped to get clarification on. I saw in other threads that people mentioned arrest records surviving the expungement process. Would it be worth contacting my attorney and starting a separate process to seal any remaining arrest records? My concern is that if a licensing board really does have the ability to obtain expunged documents (which still seems unlikely to me, as I don't see any wording anywhere granting them any such authority), then is there any point in sealing anything?

Thank you for reading this far. I will be deeply grateful for any guidance you folks can provide.

I can't speak as to the eligibility to practice business, but I feel that 15 years is more than enough time to show that the you of now is not the you of then.

 

[kalice87]

I'm a nontrad applicant who had a rough adolescence, but turned it around. I've dedicated most of the last decade to improving myself and helping others, and my dream is to capstone that experience by becoming an MD. So far, everything looks like that might actually be a realistic goal. I caught another thread, however, which has me worried about my legal record from my youth.

I saw there are a couple threads from previous years where people discussed this, but I have some additional questions. I hope I can get guidance on those, and perhaps clarification of how previous advice might apply in my case.

So the quick-and-dirty rundown is that I had two legal cases in my past: one drug felony, and one misdemeanor DUI. Both were around 15 years ago, diverted successfully, and later expunged. This is where I feel like it's difficult to tell what to do. The wording in my orders of expungement stipulate that "the petitioner shall be treated as not having been arrested, convicted or diverted of the crime..." except in several cases which are outlined clearly, and come nowhere close to either applying to med school or applying for licensing.

I have read that AMCAS does not require disclosure of expunged records, so I looked up my local state licensing paperwork, and their application question says, "Have you ever been found guilty after trial, or pleaded guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to a crime (felony or misdemeanor) in any court?" My understanding is that the wording of my court orders allow me to answer "No" to that question as asked.

Other threads have stated that a licensing board would have the ability to pull expunged records, but on the basis of their wording, that does not seem indicated. I was also wondering, is it possible to obtain a report about yourself from Certiphi, or is there a company which produces very similar reports for individual consumers, so I might know in advance what I might need to explain, regardless of legality?

That last question stems from another issue I hoped to get clarification on. I saw in other threads that people mentioned arrest records surviving the expungement process. Would it be worth contacting my attorney and starting a separate process to seal any remaining arrest records? My concern is that if a licensing board really does have the ability to obtain expunged documents (which still seems unlikely to me, as I don't see any wording anywhere granting them any such authority), then is there any point in sealing anything?

Thank you for reading this far. I will be deeply grateful for any guidance you folks can provide.

Good afternoon,

Could you tell me how this worked out for you? I am in a somewhat similar of a situation. A misdemeanor DUI 10 years ago, and a drug felony arrest in 2011, that after probation was brought down to a misdemeanor, and expunged last year.
I attended treatment and have turned my life completely around since 2012. I am not that person anymore. It sounds like you can understand that's possible, whereas some people just can not. Once expunged, I thought - like the order read - that I was to be treated like the "crime never happened". I have busted my butt to get into PA school, but I'm worried about this expunged charge. The school knows about my DUI, but not the expunged drug charge.
How did your situation end up? I have spoken with attorneys, done extensive research, and although I'm all set for orientation with an apartment and all - I'm thinking about backing out because I'm so afraid I will not be able to be licensed. But, that also breaks my heart. I guess this is my last effort seeing as you've been there.

Thank you for any input.