Less Competitive California Programs?

[Pegasus]

here are the ones Im considering:

Loma Linda
Univ CA, Davis
Univ CA, Irvine
Harbor, UCLA
Charles R. Drew- didnt fill in match

I know that Drew didnt fill last year, but how about any of the other programs..I dont want to waste my time if there is no way that Ill get in.

Thanks
Peg

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[gimmedog]

I'm also focused on CA programs.

From what I've been told, Harbor and UCD are among the most competitive programs and are nationally recognized.

UCI and Loma Linda are strong but less competitive. One non-religious person who interviewed at Loma Linda loved the program but was put off a little about the overt Christian talk with several people she met there.

I've heard from faculty that the only programs you may want to stay away from in CA are Drew and Kern County. I don;t know how much of this reputation is justified since programs change all the time.

Also look into UCSF-Fresno-- residents there love it and are able to buy a house on their salary. Great wilderness medicine opportunities and near Yosemite. Traditionally a less competitive CA program too.

Don;t focus too much on how competitive a place is supposed to be. Never count yourself out--throw your hat in the ring and see what happens.

Good luck everyone!

 

[Stinky Tofu]

I would probably add Kern Medical Center to the list. Also, my impression is that the Alameda County program is less competitive than the UC Davis and Harbor program.

 

[Sheerstress]

As you may know, King/Drew's general surgery residency program recently lost its accreditation, greatly compromising its ability to function as a level I trauma center. I couldn't say exactly how this will affect the EM residency program, but if less trauma gets sent to the hospital, it will obviously a minus for EM.

Overall, King/Drew sounds like a good place to go if you're looking for an urban experience with an indigent population base and learn best by experience.

 

[Sheerstress]

Overall, how would LAC/USC's program rate in competitiveness the the above programs?

Another inner-city 2-3-4 program with a large number of slots (18).

 

[Sessamoid]

Harbor is pretty much top of the class only. Their chairman is Bob Hockberger, whose name you'll find on the cover of Rosen's Emergency Medicine. A super nice guy.

UCI is reputed to be one of the more cushy residencies in California. Lower patient volume and more time to read. It may suit certain people. The other problem is that the patient population is pretty homogeneous, so you won't get the variety of pathology and social problems you do in other programs.

Drew gets a bad rap because of its location. That said, if you want to see trauma, go to Drew. Drew is the polar opposite from UCI. Lots of patients, lots of pathology, less time to read, and less time for didactics. Also more independence. From what I've been told, you learn to think for yourself much earlier at Drew. Whether this suits you depends on your personality.

 

[Idiopathic]

Jeez...if King/Drew doesnt get the trauma, where will it go? Isnt that like the GSW capitol of the USA?

 

[Sessamoid]

Originally posted by Idiopathic
Jeez...if King/Drew doesnt get the trauma, where will it go? Isnt that like the GSW capitol of the USA?

Pretty much. If King/Drew stopped taking trauma, most the rest of the LA hospitals would suddenly find themselves either in the red or much less in the black. GSWs are, of course, almost always free medical care and costly on top of that.

 

[Pegasus]

THanks guys for all the responses. It really helps me get a general overview of these programs.

Peg

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Interviewed at Davis, Stanford, UCI, Loma Linda, and Harbor. I got all 5 of the Cali interviews I applied for, but some friends with just slightly lower numbers didn't get any at all. I would say they are all competitive because they're in a pretty popular location. That fact that they are all at least average programs doesn't hurt either.

UCLA-Harbor has a long and storied reputation, but to be honest I was turned off at the interview. Underfunded hospital with 50-70 people in the waiting room at noon. You really want to spend all day with patients who had to wait 15 hours to see you? However, I ranked them low because I didn't fit in with the people so much and I hated the location. By the way, the people are nice enough (as are most people in EM) they just tend toward hip, young, single urban/beach loving folk. Whereas I'm a less than hip young married suburban/mountain loving person. Good program. Expect less attending contact than at other institutions, but I really liked the attendings.

UCI was left off my list. Although I thought the US was top notch, and the people nice, I didn't like the director, location, ED, intrahospital reputation, cafeteria, library, program etc.

Loma Linda is very good. Location turns lots of Cali folks off. The SDA thing turns others off. But it is a diamond in the rough with super nice people, a nice peds ED (and a great peds experience, perhaps the best I saw) and mountain bike trails behind the hospital. Plus, a 2 hospital experience. Good program.

Stanford boasts 4 separate hospitals to learn at. So if you don't mind commuting in the Bay Area, put them on your list. I didn't get a chance to see all the hospitals, but I was less than impressed with the Stanford hospital (although it is the best lunch on the interview trail, and a band plays in the lobby.) The people were nice. Good program.

UCD was second on my list. Very busy. Residents work very hard. (20 12s) More than enough trauma (read: too much), very cool residents, city not too big but close to bay area and lake tahoe/sierras, another good program.

Your education would be fine at any of these programs, you just gotta find which one you would fit into. I would shy away from Drew however. I've got a friend...

 

[Sessamoid]

Regarding the underfunded hospital bit. All the LA County hospitals are going to be underfunded. They pretty much all came close to shutting their doors last year as a result of the budget crunch. Part of the problem was that the county hospitals used to take unfunded patients in transfer from the rest of the for-profit hospitals on a regular basis, even though they weren't legally required to do so. From what I understand, that's no longer the case, so the county hospitals' burdens have been lightened, while the remaining LA hospitals have shouldered the increased costs. I may have some of the details wrong, but that's the way I understand it.

I didn't interview at Stanford, but I'm a little leery of a program that "boasts" 4 hospitals for you to train at. Is it because they all have something wonderful to offer, or is it because the primary hospital is just so lacking in so many areas that shipping off their residents elsewhere is required? I think having a second hospital to work in helps broaden your experience of how an ED works, but after that I think the increase in logistical problems and "getting to know yet another ER" may detract from the education.

I too shied away from Drew, though I interviewed there. That said, unless you're dead-set on an academic career, I think your education and career would not be hampered at all by graduating from Drew/King. Mind you, this doesn't take into account the recent problems with their surgery program, but the EM program seemed sound. The residents were quite friendly and colleagial, and there's no questioning they see some great pathology. As an anecdote, the job I just took in a "prominent partnership group" has a Drew grad as its medical director.

 

[awdc]

So, would anyone care to spell out why so many would shy away from Drew? Lots of pathology and trauma... that sounds pretty good. Is it just the location and huge patient load or is there some deep, dark secret about its program? I'm just a bit puzzled...

 

[Sessamoid]

Originally posted by awdc
So, would anyone care to spell out why so many would shy away from Drew? Lots of pathology and trauma... that sounds pretty good. Is it just the location and huge patient load or is there some deep, dark secret about its program? I'm just a bit puzzled...

Mostly the location and patient population, I'd say.

 

[tonem]

Originally posted by Sessamoid

I didn't interview at Stanford, but I'm a little leery of a program that "boasts" 4 hospitals for you to train at. Is it because they all have something wonderful to offer, or is it because the primary hospital is just so lacking in so many areas that shipping off their residents elsewhere is required? I think having a second hospital to work in helps broaden your experience of how an ED works, but after that I think the increase in logistical problems and "getting to know yet another ER" may detract from the education.

In defense of Stanford, the hospitals they rotate through do offer something unique. SFGH is the consumate county hospital, grungy, busy with a huge indigent population. Kaiser is a community HMO hospital that is a clean, efficient place that treats primarily insured patients. Stanford is small but its the typical tertiary care academic kind of place with a smattering of indigent patients. VMC is another county hospital, although not as "rough" as SFGH. I'm not sure how much longer SFGH will be included in the mix after UCSF gets their residency up and running. Although there was a time when both Highland and Stanford ran residents through SFGH.