Less competitive programs training

[jumpingjack]

It's difficult to find out which are the most competitive/better regarded programs in psychiatry because of reluctance to have a list.

I've tried searching but any such thread generates responses that critique the premise of a rank list.

Anyway, coming at this as an inverse gunner, I hope to elicit discussion that focuses on actual programs. What are the easiest programs to get into (having just scraped by at a US med school) that still have good training?

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[nitemagi]

It's difficult to find out which are the most competitive/better regarded programs in psychiatry because of reluctance to have a list.

I've tried searching but any such thread generates responses that critique the premise of a rank list.

Anyway, coming at this as an inverse gunner, I hope to elicit discussion that focuses on actual programs. What are the easiest programs to get into (having just scraped by at a US med school) that still have good training?

If you "just scraped by at a US med school" why are you listed as pre-med?

 

[jumpingjack]

cuz its 2011 and I hardly use this site.
Thanks for fulfilling my prophecy )

 

[whopper]

Unless someone makes a list of programs that contains the number of applicants vs the number of open spots, one cannot create such a list. Remember, you wrote most competive.

 

[billypilgrim37]

In general, the highest quality / competitiveness quotients come up in the Midwest and the South. Basically, stay away from places where outsiders would like to come live.

 

[notdeadyet]

I have a pet theory that you can find the most and least competitive psychiatry residency programs by looking at the number of Thai restaurants per capita.

Another theory is using independent booksellers, but I have less data.

 

[TexasPhysician]

In Texas:
The trend is currently towards programs with fellowships, especially C&A.

No C&A + locations makes Texas Tech programs less desireable.
JPS in Fort Worth has a good location but no fellowships and not great call schedule. Also it is part DO program - accredited for MD and DO.
Baylor in Houston has the name, but rigorous work schedule has scared many strong candidates away. It does have fellowships though.
I think these 4 programs (Tech has 2) are the least desirable programs of most people that I know.

With that said:
None of those 4 have accreditation issues that I am aware of and all have great qualities. Tech has some great clinical faculty. JPS has Fort Worth - best city of all. Baylor has the psychotherapy center and Gabbard I believe. I don't think you could go wrong with any of the 4, and as an MD applicant - you have a great chance at these places and MANY others.

 

[peppy]

Anyway, coming at this as an inverse gunner, I hope to elicit discussion that focuses on actual programs. What are the easiest programs to get into (having just scraped by at a US med school) that still have good training?

I don't think there are any stats or rankings on the lower end of competitiveness, and "good training" is somewhat subjective. Your best indicator is probably to look at the program's website and see if they list the med schools for their recent residents to help you gauge competitiveness.
*In general*, most residency programs' preferences seems to be:
American MD > American DO > Caribbean grad > Foreign grad.
I also agree with billypilgrim that geography is a huge factor too, with midwest/southern programs typically being less sought after. Even the crappiest program in California will still be pretty competitive just because so many people desperately want to live in Cali.

If you're applying to a program that is mostly FMGs, you do run the risk that the program may in fact truly prefer IMGs/FMGs for some reason and actually doesn't *want* AMGs (for example, some programs prefer FMGs because many of them were attendings in their home countries and the program appreciates that they already have a lot of experience/knowledge from that; sometimes if the PD is an FMG him/herself they may prefer their fellow FMGs, etc.).
A program may also reject you if they think you're "out of their league" or not the kind of person who sincerely wants to be at their program.

But you have to start somewhere right?
So, with all that being said, here are a few programs that I'd probably try investigating if I were you. By that I mean, based on what I've heard, I think these are programs where you'd have a shot at being seriously considered. You'll have to decide for yourself if you think the training there would be good for you.

Albany
Buffalo
Kalamazoo
Rosalind Franklin (Chicago)
University of North Dakota
Carilion Clinic (VA Tech)
Kansas City
Creighton

 

[Chimed]

This is an interesting thread...I think it's worth repeating what was said above that what makes a "good program" can often be very subjective.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "less competitive"; because that is relative. I'll list a few program below that may be "less competitive" and are known to have good training, in no particular order:

UMass
Institute of Living
U of Louisville
Stony Brook
Penn State
Jefferson
Suny Upstate
U of Cincinnati
U of Indiana

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm not saying these programs aren't competitive, they're just often overlooked and offer excellent educational opportunities:

MCW
Arkansas
Creighton/UNMC
Palmetto/South Carolina
Hennepin
West Virginia
UMass
Arizona/UPH
New Mexico
LSU

 

[myPsychAlt]

I'm not saying these programs aren't competitive, they're just often overlooked and offer excellent educational opportunities:

MCW
Arkansas
Creighton/UNMC
Palmetto/South Carolina
Hennepin
West Virginia
UMass
Arizona/UPH
New Mexico
LSU

I'd throw in the Upstate NY programs too. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse.

 

[sella turcica]

check out ECU/Brody SOM in NC.

 

[Cinnameg]

I have a pet theory that you can find the most and least competitive psychiatry residency programs by looking at the number of Thai restaurants per capita.

Another theory is using independent booksellers, but I have less data.

I'd go with booksellers, art galleries, and Indian restaurants. That's what I've been looking for on the interview trail, anyway.

 

[st2205]

Can't beat the Indian restaurants. I've been cooking it weekly for the past month or so. The closest restaurants to me are 90 miles away. There are two of them -- both garbage. We ordered an appetizer of chicken pakoras and they brought out what I'm certain was Wal Mart chicken fingers with dipping sauce. They had chicken fingers on the kids' menu, so I'm certain they were the same item and probably could have saved $$ if we ordered the kid's meal and asked for chutney.

Oh, that and I cook it better.

 

[NJWxMan]

I'd throw in the Upstate NY programs too. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse.

You clearly don't have a clue. I interviewed at all three programs along with Albany. There is a very SIGNIFICANT gradient between the four programs. In fact, one of the four programs is actually very competitive and one of the programs of the four is the weakest of all programs that I interviewed at. Per first hand news from one of the PD's while I was on interviews in 2008, one of the above programs received over 12,000 applicants! Only 175 were offered interviews. I guess that's not competitive.

 

[silas2642]

You clearly don't have a clue. I interviewed at all three programs along with Albany. There is a very SIGNIFICANT gradient between the four programs. In fact, one of the four programs is actually very competitive and one of the programs of the four is the weakest of all programs that I interviewed at. Per first hand news from one of the PD's while I was on interviews in 2008, one of the above programs received over 12,000 applicants! Only 175 were offered interviews. I guess that's not competitive.

Perhaps I'm misreading the data, but I thought there were only like 2100 applicants for psychiatry (the entire specialty) per year, about 800-900 being US seniors. So I doubt that any single program has 12,000 applications on its desk, particularly as this is still a buyer's market.

 

[Cinnameg]

Can't beat the Indian restaurants. I've been cooking it weekly for the past month or so. The closest restaurants to me are 90 miles away. There are two of them -- both garbage. We ordered an appetizer of chicken pakoras and they brought out what I'm certain was Wal Mart chicken fingers with dipping sauce. They had chicken fingers on the kids' menu, so I'm certain they were the same item and probably could have saved $$ if we ordered the kid's meal and asked for chutney.

Oh, that and I cook it better.

Respect to you! Indian food is HARD to cook well. Mine always ends up too bland, too spicy, or the flavor is just kind of . . . off, or wrong, not quite like what I'd expect chana masala to taste like in a restaurant.

As far as upstate NY programs . . . I didn't interview in NY, but 12,000 DOES sound like there's an accidental extra zero there. The programs I went to for interviews who mentioned numbers said they got around 600-800 applications, out of which they invited 100-200 for interviews.

Also, NJWxMan, did the program you were referring to only interview 175, or only invite 175 to interview? There are applicants out there who either didn't schedule or who cancelled a lot of interviews, because they over-applied or decided to save money by only going to 10 interviews out of 20 offers. The data you should be looking at for competitiveness is invites, not number of actual interviews.

 

[notdeadyet]

12,000 DOES sound like there's an accidental extra zero there.

At least. The most I've heard of any programs getting was still only about 900 applicants, which is still about half the people applying to psych.

 

[myPsychAlt]

You clearly don't have a clue. I interviewed at all three programs along with Albany. There is a very SIGNIFICANT gradient between the four programs. In fact, one of the four programs is actually very competitive and one of the programs of the four is the weakest of all programs that I interviewed at. Per first hand news from one of the PD's while I was on interviews in 2008, one of the above programs received over 12,000 applicants! Only 175 were offered interviews. I guess that's not competitive.

curious as to which program you were talking about. I only interviewed at Rochester, which made a similar statement. I'd heard good things about Buffalo from my own PD, but really have no idea about Syracuse other than what's been said on these boards.

/and a ridiculous applicant to interview ratio isn't all that uncommon since most places get flooded with foreign apps of questionable quality anyway... I really have doubts that any one of the three above would get significantly more than the other two.

 

[Psychoderm]

You clearly don't have a clue. I interviewed at all three programs along with Albany. There is a very SIGNIFICANT gradient between the four programs. In fact, one of the four programs is actually very competitive and one of the programs of the four is the weakest of all programs that I interviewed at. Per first hand news from one of the PD's while I was on interviews in 2008, one of the above programs received over 12,000 applicants! Only 175 were offered interviews. I guess that's not competitive.

According to the 2009 NRMP charting outcome, the total number of applicants to psychiatry was 1,563. 12,000 applicants to psychiatry is not correct.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf