Let me be a troll for a sec

[Epic]

and post a question I read somewhere. Give your best response.

I've yet to see the value of a pharmacist (except a few clinical ones in the hospital). How hard is it to take a prescription, type it into the computer, walk to the shelf and count out 30 tablets and affix a label to a bottle? All of the drug interactions, warnings, and precautions, are all in the computer. Maybe that's why at all the chains a pharmacy tech does 90% of the work. You want to cut drug costs---insist that only the first prescription be filled locally and then mail order a 90 day supply.

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[MountainPharmD]

and post a question I read somewhere. Give your best response.

It would be very hard to argue with the original poster of this question. It is obvious they know very little about what they are talking about. My first respone would be the cost of the drug as nothing to do with where you get the prescription filled. Drug cost are high because, unlike the the rest of the world, drug companies are not subject to government price controls. You want to fix the high cost of drugs then start with the drug companies.

Second, I would argue there is no value to any health care professional. Take Doctors for instance. I sit in the office for 4 hours when I am sick. A medical assistant takes my history and blood pressure. I see the Doctor for 2 minutes and then a nurse comes in and gives me my prescriptions. 90% of the work is done by nurses and medical assistants. Why do I even have to see the Doctor? I can look everything up on the computer and diagnose myself. I should only have to make one appointment and if the same thing happens to me again I should be able to call in and get what ever I need. Blah Blah Blah.

 

[Fatpharm]

How hard is it to take a prescription, type it into the computer, walk to the shelf and count out 30 tablets and affix a label to a bottle, do it over and over again approximately 300-400 times a day while trying to interpret the physician's writing to get the right drug and the right dose to the right person?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I thought the simplest answer would be very hard. . ., but then again, hard to argue with a person who doesnt know what they are talking about.

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

How hard is it to take a prescription, type it into the computer, walk to the shelf and count out 30 tablets and affix a label to a bottle, do it over and over again approximately 300-400 times a day while trying to interpret the physician's writing to get the right drug and the right dose to the right person?

Hmmm, well, I hope interpreting physician handwriting isn't the crux of your case. The fact that you can decipher hieroglyphics doesn't really add much to the case...regardless of how many times a day you do it. And with just a slight advance in technology...that aspect could be a non-factor very soon.

 

[Epic]

It would be very hard to argue with the original poster of this question. It is obvious they know very little about what they are talking about. My first respone would be the cost of the drug as nothing to do with where you get the prescription filled. Drug cost are high because, unlike the the rest of the world, drug companies are not subject to government price controls. You want to fix the high cost of drugs then start with the drug companies.

Second, I would argue there is no value to any health care professional. Take Doctors for instance. I sit in the office for 4 hours when I am sick. A medical assistant takes my history and blood pressure. I see the Doctor for 2 minutes and then a nurse comes in and gives me my prescriptions. 90% of the work is done by nurses and medical assistants. Why do I even have to see the Doctor? I can look everything up on the computer and diagnose myself. I should only have to make one appointment and if the same thing happens to me again I should be able to call in and get what ever I need. Blah Blah Blah.

Dang.. you're so cute when you're serious.

 

[Epic]

Ok.. so no response containing valid contribution of retail pharmacist?

 

[DrugDealer]

I've yet to see the value of a pharmacist (except a few clinical ones in the hospital). How hard is it to take a prescription, type it into the computer, walk to the shelf and count out 30 tablets and affix a label to a bottle? All of the drug interactions, warnings, and precautions, are all in the computer. Maybe that's why at all the chains a pharmacy tech does 90% of the work. You want to cut drug costs---insist that only the first prescription be filled locally and then mail order a 90 day supply.

You're right....it's not hard at all. It's just a matter of finding the time to do this in between answering the phone, calling doctors about the drug they wrote for that doesn't exist, pretending to be psychic and deducing what insurance you might have, explaining to you that your script needs a PA, contacting your doctor for refills because you were not proactive (or literate) enough to notice the bright red "out of refills" auxillary label I stuck on your previous fill, etc. And, yeah, a tech can do a lot of that.

But what about deciding what to do about all those interactions the computer flags? You should call on some of them, but not all of them....there's not enough time in the day to call on everything. You have to use your clinical judgment and decide when to ignore, when counseling is sufficient, and when to call the MD.

And what about all the people that walk up to the counter to ask questions? The computer doesn't help that much then....you have to know the right questions to ask, the right times to recommend a product, the right time to recommend non-pharm treatment, and the right time to refer a patient back to the MD.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Dang.. you're so cute when you're serious.

What can I say...I am at work right now and I am all business at work!!!

What is up with snow in Dallas in March? Thats why I moved down here to get away from this!

 

[Epic]

What can I say...I am at work right now and I am all business at work!!!

What is up with snow in Dallas in March? Thats why I moved down here to get away from this!

oh...it's our once a year "we get snow in Dallas too" moment... which allows us to say "I like Dallas because we have 4 seasons."

 

[MountainPharmD]

oh...it's our once a year "we get snow in Dallas too" moment... which allows us to say "I like Dallas because we have 4 seasons."

All right I guess I can handle 1 day of winter verse 8 months in Colorado.

Where did you find your question posted? Can we go flame the thread?

 

[Epic]

All right I guess I can handle 1 day of winter verse 8 months in Colorado.

Where did you find your question posted? Can we go flame the thread?

Oh... it's from a job network forum discussing pharmaceutical reps. Someone decided to challenge value of retail pharmacist. Here is my response.

World without retail pharmacist.

Customer: ehh so Mr. Pharmacy Technician..my doc prescribed this medication for me.. What is it?

Pharm Tech: Well, the print out says it's an HMG Co-A Reductase Inhibitor for hyperchoresterolemia. So it's for your high cholesterol.

Customer: Well you know..years ago my doctor gave me this drug called Baycol and that I believe was for high cholesterol..wasn't it? I still have some at home. Should I take them then?

Pharm Tech: ehhh.. Baycol? I never heard of it. I've only been a pharm tech for 3 months now.

Customer: Well, then what is this sample my doc gave me... ezetimibe.. isn't that for cholesterol?

Pharm Tech: ehhh... we dispense a lot of that. I don't really know what the difference is.

Customer: Hmmmm.. You know, a few months ago, I went to a different doctor and he gave me some Pravastatin. I stopped taking it because it gave me muscle pain. So should I take this new prescripion I got here...let's see.. Crestor?

Pharmacy Technician: Ehhhh...well it says Pravastatin is also HMG Co-A Reducatse inhibitor.. So I guess it's a similar drug.

Customer: Well... will this Crestor give me muscle pain too? And when should I take this ezetimibe.. Do I take them together or separately?

Pharmacy Technician: Ehhh.. I don't really know since ezetimibe is sample and we're not dispensing it.. I can print out the drug information for you if you would like.

Customer: Well, can I speak to your pharmacist please?

Pharmacy Technician: Sir, with the new regulation now abolishing the need for a pharmacist dispensing medications, we no longer have pharmacist working here. Now I am the expert. By the way, I'm kinda busy now..so why don't you call your doctor if you have questions. Have a nice day!

 

[DrugDealer]

Oh... it's from a job network forum discussing pharmaceutical reps. Someone decided to challenge value of retail pharmacist. Here is my response.

'Tis beautiful.

Here's one that came up at my rotation today: Tech tried entering a refill for Zyflo, and the computer wouldn't let her--it gave her a "drug has been discontinued" message. So the tech calls the doctor and explains that Zyflo has been taken off the market, but that the computer says Zyflo CR is still available and would it be ok to change the patient to that? Doctor (or nurse, who knows) says "sure!" and tech processes the new drug, Zyflo CR, with the previous directions of QID. So....in a world without retail pharmacists, we would have to depend on those already hated insurance companies to keep a closer eye on things...which is what happened here...the insurance rejected QID Zyflo CR and said "wait, that's a pretty high dose!"....and then I got the call at my current managed care rotation...to which I replied, change it to BID, silly tech.

 

[twester]

The original question is valid. Most of the public don't see pharmacists as healthcare providers per se. That's why retail pharmacists need to move rapidly in the direction of providing direct, "hands-on" medical care. The dispensing pharmacist may soon be extinct.

However, a pharmacist who utilizes his/her drug and disease state knowledge to provide evidence-based medication therapy management, vaccinations and even specialty compounding can still earn a living. Chain pharmacists are walling themselves off from the future and if they don't change, they'll be going back to school (or retiring).

Good food, troll?

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Patient A takes 20 Aspirin's a day because they're not "real drugs" and can't harm you. Patient B has a history of seizures and brings in a script for Ultram. Patient C having issues with orally dissolving med...turns out they're phenylketonuric. Patient D with lymphoma...starting cyclophosphamide...doesn't like to drink a lot of fluids. Doc needs to know what benzo she can give patient D sublingually. Patient E on Nardil is having severe N/V/HA after St. Patty's. Patient F has hypertension and wants to start taking Effexor. Patient G, older gentleman who's taking Viagra wants to know if there's anything he should know about Trazodone he's going to start for insomnia/depression. Patient H wants to quit smoking. Patient I is on lithium and decides to go on very low-sodium diet. Patient J is pregnant with history of RA...wants to refill her Arthrotec. Patient K is on Precose and carries candy for hypoglycemic episode. Patient L is on Prandin...sometimes skips lunch, but never misses a dose because he's a "good patient" and would never not take his medications.

Want me to think of patient's M - Z?

Pose these situations to whoever was asking the worth of a retail pharmacist...and see what they're response is. That's the worth of a retail pharmacist.

Someone said they were asked "tell me about a time when you saved someone's life" at a residency interview. Good question. Counting by 5's and slapping a label on a bottle sounds easy, but you're involved in these patient's lives every day...even with the small things.

 

[Epic]

Patient A takes 20 Aspirin's a day because they're not "real drugs" and can't harm you. Patient B has a history of seizures and brings in a script for Ultram. Patient C having issues with orally dissolving med...turns out they're phenylketonuric. Patient D with lymphoma...starting cyclophosphamide...doesn't like to drink a lot of fluids. Doc needs to know what benzo she can give patient D sublingually. Patient E on Nardil is having severe N/V/HA after St. Patty's. Patient F has hypertension and wants to start taking Effexor. Patient G, older gentleman who's taking Viagra wants to know if there's anything he should know about Trazodone he's going to start for insomnia/depression. Patient H wants to quit smoking. Patient I is on lithium and decides to go on very low-sodium diet. Patient J is pregnant with history of RA...wants to refill her Arthrotec. Patient K is on Precose and carries candy for hypoglycemic episode. Patient L is on Prandin...sometimes skips lunch, but never misses a dose because he's a "good patient" and would never not take his medications.

Want me to think of patient's M - Z?

Pose these situations to whoever was asking the worth of a retail pharmacist...and see what they're response is. That's the worth of a retail pharmacist.

Someone said they were asked "tell me about a time when you saved someone's life" at a residency interview. Good question. Counting by 5's and slapping a label on a bottle sounds easy, but you're involved in these patient's lives every day...even with the small things.

So... instead of writing up a rebuttal, you decided to create scenarios to prove your point. I would say that's more of a plagiarism of concept I displayed in my response!!!

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

So... instead of writing up a rebuttal, you decided to create scenarios to prove your point. I would say that's more of a plagiarism of concept I displayed in my response!!!

No plagiarism!!! I started typing that before you posted yours.

I guess drug reps (aka non retail pharmacists) think alike?

 

[golf299]

In response to twester: don't mindlessly believe the propaganda that CU professors try to indoctrinate you with.

The retail pharmacist will not soon be extinct. People have been saying that for years. As soon as Walgreens and CVS start closing their doors, then you'll have a point. For now, they can't build stores and staff them with pharmacists fast enough.

 

[PharmaSynergy]

So... instead of writing up a rebuttal, you decided to create scenarios to prove your point. I would say that's more of a plagiarism of concept I displayed in my response!!!

No plagiarism!!! I started typing that before you posted yours.

Either way, I think Spiriva's patient scenarios is an ingenious response to a brilliant original concept!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Poly-pharmacy. Keeping multiple physicians' **** straight.
Knowledge of acceptable substitutions on drug formularies. (Factive isn't covered....what else could I use?)
Monitoring drug diversion.

**** like that. Retail pharmacists are still useful and needed.

Really it doesn't matter...in 50 years robots will be able to do every job better than any human. Then the Marxist utopia comes into play.

 

[VCU2011]

I agree with all of the above scenarios where a pharmacist is important. I think another thing to add would be- who does the original poster think is going to do it? the techs? The testing for tech licensing is going in the wrong direction if that's the case. Now they are not only using the NABP exam- but in some places you can take state exams (like here in VA). I studied for my tech exam for 2 weeks, went and took the exam at some airport i had never heard of. When i got there I was greeted by a retired pilot smoking a cigarette who walked me into a back room (of a 20x20 shed) where there was a single Mac 2GS (I recognized these because its what i used in elementary shcool) and a printer. I took the exam, passed, mailed in the certificate that was printed out for me, and got my tech license in the mail! There was one question about generics and it was: "what is the generic of pravachol?" a) Viagra, b) Xanax, c) Pravastatin, d) Oxycodone.

If people are going to start proposing that techs need to run the pharmacy there needs to be a national standard for techs (because i'll admit it, i was a fast tech, but didn't know **** back there at first). I would also propose that that national standard needs to be MUCH higher than anything that they have in our current system

 

[Farmercyst]

If people are going to start proposing that techs need to run the pharmacy there needs to be a national standard for techs (because i'll admit it, i was a fast tech, but didn't know **** back there at first). I would also propose that that national standard needs to be MUCH higher than anything that they have in our current system

My Pharm Tech instructor at CC thought the standard should be an Associates Degree with required instruction in Pharmacology in addition to math and Pharm Systems classes. My guess is even that would be insufficient, but still better than "Here's you math test with a couple other questions thrown in just for kicks." that the PTCE passes as a standard. You can bet the delay and decrease in new techs would make the chains despise that standard.

 

[twester]

In response to twester: don't mindlessly believe the propaganda that CU professors try to indoctrinate you with.

The retail pharmacist will not soon be extinct. People have been saying that for years. As soon as Walgreens and CVS start closing their doors, then you'll have a point. For now, they can't build stores and staff them with pharmacists fast enough.

I don't spout other people's propaganda nor were my comments mindless. I've watched pharmacists work. Many are very engaged with their patients. Many more are of the scan-open-look-click-staple variety who rarely talk to patients during their shifts. A tech could do their jobs.

I believe that pharmacy is changing at a steady pace (as it has been for the last decade or so). I didn't say the retail pharmacist would soon be extinct. I said the dispensing pharmacist would soon be extinct. I think a time is coming that the market (if not the companies we work for) will expect us to step up and offer more services. The pharmacists I refer to above will not be equipped to do so.

 

[Jbuprepharm]

I don't spout other people's propaganda nor were my comments mindless. I've watched pharmacists work. Many are very engaged with their patients. Many more are of the scan-open-look-click-staple variety who rarely talk to patients during their shifts. A tech could do their jobs.

I believe that pharmacy is changing at a steady pace (as it has been for the last decade or so). I didn't say the retail pharmacist would soon be extinct. I said the dispensing pharmacist would soon be extinct. I think a time is coming that the market (if not the companies we work for) will expect us to step up and offer more services. The pharmacists I refer to above will not be equipped to do so.

I agree that more services need to be offered, but you'll have to get Wags and CVS convinced to provide adequate staffing first. 1 pharmacist and 2 techs for 300-400 scripts a day doesn't allow time for much patient interaction. now if that same pharmacy had 2 pharmacists and 3-4 techs you'd be talking, but no company with business sense will agree to that, because when it comes down to it the dollar rules

 

[MountainPharmD]

I believe that pharmacy is changing at a steady pace (as it has been for the last decade or so). I didn't say the retail pharmacist would soon be extinct. I said the dispensing pharmacist would soon be extinct. I think a time is coming that the market (if not the companies we work for) will expect us to step up and offer more services. The pharmacists I refer to above will not be equipped to do so.

I suppose things will change when the retail chains can make the "other" services profitable. All Wags and CVS care about is money, just like any other business. Its unfortunate their business is health care because right now they are ruining it to just to make an extra buck. Pharmacy could be a wonderfully rewarding career even at CVS or Walgreens if they were allowed enough staff to do it correctly.

 

[markk122]

It would be very hard to argue with the original poster of this question. It is obvious they know very little about what they are talking about. My first respone would be the cost of the drug as nothing to do with where you get the prescription filled. Drug cost are high because, unlike the the rest of the world, drug companies are not subject to government price controls. You want to fix the high cost of drugs then start with the drug companies.

Second, I would argue there is no value to any health care professional. Take Doctors for instance. I sit in the office for 4 hours when I am sick. A medical assistant takes my history and blood pressure. I see the Doctor for 2 minutes and then a nurse comes in and gives me my prescriptions. 90% of the work is done by nurses and medical assistants. Why do I even have to see the Doctor? I can look everything up on the computer and diagnose myself. I should only have to make one appointment and if the same thing happens to me again I should be able to call in and get what ever I need. Blah Blah Blah.

Ok, I do agree that being a pharmacists in not easy. However, it's not rocket science and your never going to find a job where you make $100,000+ and not have to work at it every day. If you can find that job, let me know.....

Oh no, I actually have to earn some of my salary... getting a PharmD or a PhD doesnt mean anything... no one ever owes you something and you always have to work at something you want.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Ok, I do agree that being a pharmacists in not easy. However, it's not rocket science and your never going to find a job where you make $100,000+ and not have to work at it every day. If you can find that job, let me know.....

Oh no, I actually have to earn some of my salary... getting a PharmD or a PhD doesnt mean anything... no one ever owes you something and you always have to work at something you want.

I love it when people say "its not rocket science." What a totally pointless statement to make. Nothing is rocket science except rocket science. I am quite sure no one involved in this thread was complaining about having to work. The complaints are directed at the conditions under which we are forced to work by greedy chains intent on nothing but increasing profit margins.

 

[markk122]

I love it when people say "its not rocket science." What a totally pointless statement to make. Nothing is rocket science except rocket science. I am quite sure no one involved in this thread was complaining about having to work. The complaints are directed at the conditions under which we are forced to work by greedy chains intent on nothing but increasing profit margins.

Welcome to the real world where every company is out to make money and get the most out of every employee. Tell me how that is different than any other company / job? Yes work is hard and every company is going to hold there employees to high standards, sometimes impossible standards. Thats how business make the most profit. So many people make pharmacy sound like its the only job thats hard and your busy all day every day. Like I said before... If there is a job where you can make $100,000+ not busting your butt everyday.... let me know. Pharmacist's work hard, really hard, and they get paid well for that.

Think of it this way. If you owned your own pharmacy and were paying your pharmacists the "going rate", wouldn't you expect a lot out of them? You are giving them a lot of money... shouldn't you get a lot of service in return for all that money?

 

[Epic]

Welcome to the real world where every company is out to make money and get the most out of every employee. Tell me how that is different than any other company / job? Yes work is hard and every company is going to hold there employees to high standards, sometimes impossible standards. Thats how business make the most profit. So many people make pharmacy sound like its the only job thats hard and your busy all day every day. Like I said before... If there is a job where you can make $100,000+ not busting your butt everyday.... let me know. Pharmacist's work hard, really hard, and they get paid well for that.

Think of it this way. If you owned your own pharmacy and were paying your pharmacists the "going rate", wouldn't you expect a lot out of them? You are giving them a lot of money... shouldn't you get a lot of service in return for all that money?

There are a lot of pharmacy jobs with $100,000+ salary where you don't have to bust your butt... The goal is to work smarter...not harder.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Welcome to the real world where every company is out to make money and get the most out of every employee. Tell me how that is different than any other company / job? Yes work is hard and every company is going to hold there employees to high standards, sometimes impossible standards. Thats how business make the most profit. So many people make pharmacy sound like its the only job thats hard and your busy all day every day. Like I said before... If there is a job where you can make $100,000+ not busting your butt everyday.... let me know. Pharmacist's work hard, really hard, and they get paid well for that.

Think of it this way. If you owned your own pharmacy and were paying your pharmacists the "going rate", wouldn't you expect a lot out of them? You are giving them a lot of money... shouldn't you get a lot of service in return for all that money?

Dude...did you read this thread before you posted your senseless babble? I think Epic summed it up nicely....work smarter not harder. The chains have us working harder and harder yet they have done nothing to help us work smarter.

No **** every business is in it for the money. My point is the greed and money are what is ruining healthcare.

 

[Sevarious]

The complaints are directed at the conditions under which we are forced to work by greedy chains intent on nothing but increasing profit margins.

Conditions for retail pharmacists are bad, but you can't blame it all on the chains. I know its fun to bash the chains, I do it myself, but really everyone in the loop gets some of the blame. Patients get a nice chunk of the blame. They want their prescriptions filled in 15 minutes or less and handed to them out a drive-through window with a side of fries. Counseling and care is less important to many than insurance co-pays and how much the candy bars are on sale for. Pharmacists take some of the blame too. They are willing to work for companies that provide them inadequate help, don't give them breaks, etc. They are also willing to provide all kinds of cognitive services without even trying to be reimbursed.

Pharmacists and patients, together, are going to decide what direction retail pharmacy will go. Then the business model (and all the accompanying legal regulations) will shift either towards health care (pharmacists providing care) or fast food (Who needs a pharmacist? Technicians can dispense pills just as well).

 

[markk122]

Dude...did you read this thread before you posted your senseless babble? I think Epic summed it up nicely....work smarter not harder. The chains have us working harder and harder yet they have done nothing to help us work smarter.

No **** every business is in it for the money. My point is the greed and money are what is ruining healthcare.

The sky if falling, the sky is falling! Whatever.... Don't worry, I wont post on here anymore. You can rip someone else's head off for voicing there opinion.

 

[imperial frog]

My point is the greed and money are what is ruining healthcare.

I would say that greed and money are key foundations for the advancements that we have in healthcare today. Yah money!!!

 

[txpharm2b]

My point is the greed and money are what is ruining healthcare.

And I would have said that greed and money are ruining far more than just healthcare.