Let this NP teach you about CHF

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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cbrons said:


"Nurse Practitioners are LEADING the charge."

"NPs LEAD THE WAY in diagnosing, ordering and evaluating tests, prescribing, treating, and educating patients."

"I prefer a Nurse Practitioner as my Primary Care Provider."

"Nurse Practitioners: Fifty Years of Patient-Centers, Accessible, HIGH-QUALITY HealthCare."

Meanwhile what they are teaching at U.S. M.D. schools:

All degrees are the same.
You are all just PROVIDERS.
There is nothing special about the MD degree.
Tolerance, Diversity, Respect.

What would the AMA version of this video be?

I imagine a fat bald white man behind a desk vigorously counting dollar bills and licking his chops. I have no idea why that image is in my head.

"Physicians: 3,000 years of ........."
or
"The American Medical Association: 165 years of greed, graft, corruption, and incompetence."
Click to expand...


I'm thinking of a doctor spot similar to this:


We are ****ing doctors. We know what we are doing.
 
charmiedermie said:
You get a bronchodilator! And you get a broncodilator! (Oprah voice)

I like how each of these videos the NP cites guideline protocols as their flowchart to follow. What happens if the patient doesn't fit that protocol?
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Keep doing the algorithm until the patient dies.
 
"Hey, remember that time you got polio?" Lol!

"For it to work it needs to leave the container"

****, why didn't I think of that?

Any chance I can get CME credits for these videos?
 
tiedyeddog said:
Keep doing the algorithm until the patient dies.
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And that should scare the living daylights out of any patient. If "not everything that wheezes is asthma", maybe NPs should know it is not coughing, either?
 
damvinhhungday said:
I don't know about np. but here is what I have heard about pa: based on their training, pas are 80% doctors because limit in rotations, but that doesn't matter because they do 100% same job as primary care docs.
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uh no. The percentage is nowhere near 80%.

Your last sentence is insulting to our primary care colleagues and reflects how little you know about both professions. While it is true that much of the common human ailments could be managed by a mid-level, to state that a PA is capable of handling 100% of a primary care practice patient problems is grossly overstated.
 
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Winged Scapula said:
uh no. The percentage is nowhere near 80%.

Your last sentence is insulting to our primary care colleagues and reflects how little you know about both professions. While it is true that much of the common human ailments could be managed by a mid-level, to state that a PA is capable of handling 100% of a primary care practice patient problems is grossly overstated.
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It depends on how you divide up the medical aliments.

Most of primary care is going to be centered around 10-20 different common complaints. All providers are essentially going to do the identical thing. You could teach the janitor to do them. Maybe this will comprise 80+% of a primary care office. Then maybe a the midlevel knows a handful of additional things. Let say they get another 10%. This puts them at 90+% of what a physician would know/do.

Sounds pretty good, right?

Lets switch to a quick analogy. You are flying to Hawaii. You can choose pilot A (physician) who has 10+ years of experience. Statistically you have <1% chance of crashing. Or pilot B (midlevel) who has 2 years of experience and knows the airplane pretty well. He can engage autopilot, adjust airspeed, move flaps with ease. Although there is a 1/10 chance he is going run into troubles if he encounters an unusual situation. In this case he will need to consult a pilot on the ground for instructions. Don't worry if that happens they can generally consult before the plane crashes (aka you die).
 

Hey, look at this! They have a contraceptive "resource wheel!" It is a new addition that capitalizes on the success of their "pregnancy wheel!" It helps them decide what contraceptives to use when they don't actually understand what contraceptives are safe to use, brilliant!
 
Is there a purpose to med school? What about med schools who host "Interprofessional Tolerance Day" and med school professors say the only diff between doctors and nurses is debt. And PA school is "med school packed into 2-3 years."
 
cbrons said:
Is there a purpose to med school? What about med schools who host "Interprofessional Tolerance Day" and med school professors say the only diff between doctors and nurses is debt. And PA school is "med school packed into 2-3 years."
Click to expand...

I've never understood the medical schools that promote this bs. Who devalues their own product? I guess their politically correct progressive missions just make all logic go out the window.
 
cbrons said:


"Nurse Practitioners are LEADING the charge."

"NPs LEAD THE WAY in diagnosing, ordering and evaluating tests, prescribing, treating, and educating patients."

"I prefer a Nurse Practitioner as my Primary Care Provider."

"Nurse Practitioners: Fifty Years of Patient-Centers, Accessible, HIGH-QUALITY HealthCare."

Meanwhile what they are teaching at U.S. M.D. schools:

All degrees are the same.
You are all just PROVIDERS.
There is nothing special about the MD degree.
Tolerance, Diversity, Respect.

What would the AMA version of this video be?

I imagine a fat bald white man behind a desk vigorously counting dollar bills and licking his chops. I have no idea why that image is in my head.

"Physicians: 3,000 years of ........."
or
"The American Medical Association: 165 years of greed, graft, corruption, and incompetence."
Click to expand...

You will be labeled disruptive if you are not assimilated
 
link2swim06 said:
It depends on how you divide up the medical aliments.

Most of primary care is going to be centered around 10-20 different common complaints. All providers are essentially going to do the identical thing. You could teach the janitor to do them. Maybe this will comprise 80+% of a primary care office. Then maybe a the midlevel knows a handful of additional things. Let say they get another 10%. This puts them at 90+% of what a physician would know/do.

Sounds pretty good, right?

Lets switch to a quick analogy. You are flying to Hawaii. You can choose pilot A (physician) who has 10+ years of experience. Statistically you have <1% chance of crashing. Or pilot B (midlevel) who has 2 years of experience and knows the airplane pretty well. He can engage autopilot, adjust airspeed, move flaps with ease. Although there is a 1/10 chance he is going run into troubles if he encounters an unusual situation. In this case he will need to consult a pilot on the ground for instructions. Don't worry if that happens they can generally consult before the plane crashes (aka you die).
Click to expand...

I thought about this too after seeing a "we can do 90% of what FM/EM docs do in the clinic" comment from someone here. Okay, let's say a primary care NP/PA sees 30 patients in a day, and 3 of them you would better serve if you were a board certified doctor. In one week, it's 15 people. Let's be generous and say only half of those people actually have their health/prognosis negatively affected by your lack of training. That's well over 350 people a year, thousands in a career you're actively harming by only training to 90% of what physicians do! How can you know that and still want autonomy??
 
If an NP or PA can do your job as an MD, you are not doing enough as an MD. I am all for mid-levels taking over as much of medical care as they can competently do; leaves me to to do the hard stuff for which I am trained and experienced.
 
PL198 said:
I've never understood the medical schools that promote this bs. Who devalues their own product? I guess their politically correct progressive missions just make all logic go out the window.
Click to expand...
There are people in my class who think it is disrespectful to not refer to a PA preceptor as "Doctor" so and so because they feel it is "disrespecting their training." I am not making this up.
 
charmiedermie said:
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On my family med rotation I spent one afternoon a week with the NP because my preceptor doc had meetings... and that video is right on the money with NP reasoning. Its scary that many of these NP's will be fully independent providers soon. We've all known questionable admits to our med schools, but compared to the NP's they are absolute Oslers.

As much as M1s/M2s complain about how useless much of the stuff they are learning is, it really does make a difference in terms of understanding diseases and the why of management.
 
cbrons said:
There are people in my class who think it is disrespectful to not refer to a PA preceptor as "Doctor" so and so because they feel it is "disrespecting their training." I am not making this up.
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Wait...you have PA preceptors?
 
cbrons said:
Of course we do. You dont? We have plenty of clinical faculty members who are NPs
Click to expand...

You need a refund from your school. That's pathetic
I'm in medical school, paying a ton of money to learn from real doctors who know more than me, not fake ones that don't
 
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cbrons said:
Of course we do. You dont? We have plenty of clinical faculty members who are NPs
Click to expand...

Nope. PhDs or MDs only.

These mid-level derision threads are always amusing to me. It's like watching the a bunch of members of either political party talk about how right they are among themselves. (Not that I think you're wrong, it's just that I find the echo chamber scenario amusing.)

Why don't doctors fight the AANP/other-alphabet-soup-upstart-agency with vigor? Because everybody knows doctors know their sh**.

"Keep calm and heal the shetbegs." - Barack Obama
 
Pacna said:
Nope. PhDs or MDs only.

These mid-level derision threads are always amusing to me. It's like watching the a bunch of members of either political party talk about how right they are among themselves. (Not that I think you're wrong, it's just that I find the echo chamber scenario amusing.)

Why don't doctors fight the AANP/other-alphabet-soup-upstart-agency with vigor? Because everybody knows doctors know their sh**.

"Keep calm and heal the shetbegs." - Barack Obama
Click to expand...
Because it's "unprofessional."
 
cbrons said:
Of course we do. You dont? We have plenty of clinical faculty members who are NPs
Click to expand...
we have 1 PA who does some clinical medicine lectures :shrug:

We also have a DPM who does some foot lectures
 
Mad Jack said:
Because it's "unprofessional."
Click to expand...

In a sense, yes (though I share your disdain for the word). If a king has to tell everyone he is the best and rightful king, that only calls his claims into question.

Everybody recognizes docs as THE superior providers, and nothing short of docs screwing it up will change that. Ignoring them and letting others take NPs to task will work immeasurably better than docs doing it.
 
Pacna said:
In a sense, yes (though I share your disdain for the word). If a king has to tell everyone he is the best and rightful king, that only calls his claims into question.

Everybody recognizes docs as THE superior providers, and nothing short of docs screwing it up will change that. Ignoring them and letting others take NPs to task will work immeasurably better than docs doing it.
Click to expand...
I'm just going to leave it to the lawyers, personally. Let them get some independence in practice, and then have them get the **** sued out of them when things start going wrong left and right. All you have to do to win the case is call into question their knowledge and training, which is clearly subpar, something that could easily be highlighted in trial.
 
charmiedermie said:


Click to expand...

The pearl necklace is freaking hilarious. Certified menopause practitioner? So what about the other 2 million things that go wrong with our health? Do they have to become independently certified to be able to adequately treat each one. I just became more skeptical of NPs. Next time I see one I'm going to ask what he/she is certified in.

Right now these are the current certifications for NPs:

upload_2015-4-7_7-23-40.jpeg
 
moonwake said:
The pearl necklace is freaking hilarious. Certified menopause practitioner? So what about the other 2 million things that go wrong with our health? Do they have to become independently certified to be able to adequately treat each one. I just became more skeptical of NPs. Next time I see one I'm going to ask what he/she is certified in.

Right now these are the current certifications for NPs:

View attachment 190961
Click to expand...
I think she meant she's a certified practitioner with menopause, because that certification just sounds made the **** up.
 
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