Let's cut the nonsense...

[qwopty99]

Nah, I have so many friends that are firefighters that earn 120+...PA's make 150-160+ out where I live...I'm not going to go over the rest of the entries...

Let's see their tax returns.

Or maybe they're just a bunch of lying firefighers and PAs who want you to attend their firefighter-schools and PA-schools...

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[SaveYourself]

See look. More hyperbole.


Firefighters don't "get paid" to play PS3. They don't. They may use the time they are being paid for, to play PS3, but they aren't being paid (by the public, who fund firefighters) to play PS3. Now, if what you say is actually true, you can certainly choose to make a quick buck by informing your local national media outlets for this particularly offensive news story.


So why can't you make your argument just by staying on facts without the hyperbole?

It is true. Go hang out in an American firehouse and see what they (including the captains) are allowed to do when not on a call. Again, why are you commenting on American firehouses? Does Canada have firehouses? Does Canada even have fires? It's pretty frosty out there! Or do you just run out there with buckets to put out the flames? I'm sure next you'll give me a detailed explanation of the Canadian fire system complete with diagrams, but we are way off the subject. Stop commenting on things you know nothing aboot, I mean, about.

 

[qwopty99]

I'd rather be an optometrist than a firefighter or a PA.


But if you'd rather run around fighting fires and being a nurse's tech, do whatever floats your boat.

 

[qwopty99]

It is true. Go hang out in an American firehouse and see what they (including the captains) are allowed to do when not on a call. Again, why are you commenting on American firehouses? Does Canada have firehouses? Does Canada even have fires? It's pretty frosty out there! Or do you just run out there with buckets to put out the flames? I'm sure next you'll give me a detailed explanation of the Canadian fire system complete with diagrams, but we are way off the subject. Stop commenting on things you know nothing aboot, I mean, about.

You're right. We don't have fires in Canada. We go to the border to warm our hands.


Silly me.

 

[qwopty99]

It is true. Go hang out in an American firehouse and see what they (including the captains) are allowed to do when not on a call. Again, why are you commenting on American firehouses? Does Canada have firehouses? Does Canada even have fires? It's pretty frosty out there! Or do you just run out there with buckets to put out the flames? I'm sure next you'll give me a detailed explanation of the Canadian fire system complete with diagrams, but we are way off the subject. Stop commenting on things you know nothing aboot, I mean, about.

So now you're saying firefighting is a good career?

Based on what you write here:

What about intellectual chellenge?

I have a hard time understanding why firefighting, where everyone apparently is so bored to their wits that they end up killing their time by playing PS3 all day, is such a good job.


And if firefighters are paid to play PS3, what did firefighters do before PS3 was invented? Or did the profession not exist before PS3?



Now that you've shown us a bit of who you are, I'm going to express my doubt on the notion you introduced, that you have "many friends". Given your hostility in this thread, I don't think you do.

 

[achirum]

Really? My friends earn 120+, and work 2 24's and then get 4 days off. When not on calls, they get paid to work out, cook, play PS3 and love their jobs. Is that enough information?

Really? Where are they employed? I'll have to tell my father to move.

 

[SaveYourself]

I'd rather be an optometrist than a firefighter or a PA.


But if you'd rather run around fighting fires and being a nurse's tech, do whatever floats your boat.

But you are a nurse's tech. You just call yourself "doctor". Especially in the eyes of the DEA; Optometrists, nurses and PAs are all midlevel providers and have the same prescribing abilities. Well actually, nurses and PA's can prescribe more. Can you guys prescribe drugs in Canada? Oh yeah, Nurses and PA's go to school less and don't have the debt and make more. They also don't work at Wall Mart or Costco.

 

[SaveYourself]

Really? Where are they employed? I'll have to tell my father to move.

On the west coast. Yeah, I'd tell him to move if he's not getting the schedule that my friend's have. They have it good!! Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[SaveYourself]

So now you're saying firefighting is a good career?

Based on what you write here:



I have a hard time understanding why firefighting, where everyone apparently is so bored to their wits that they end up killing their time by playing PS3 all day, is such a good job.


And if firefighters are paid to play PS3, what did firefighters do before PS3 was invented? Or did the profession not exist before PS3?



Now that you've shown us a bit of who you are, I'm going to express my doubt on the notion you introduced, that you have "many friends". Given your hostility in this thread, I don't think you do.

That's the best you can do? Say I don't have many friends? How old are you? "5"? LMAO!! Yep, you're an OD allright!!
Nothing I said in my first post is untrue. Judging by the response I've gotten, the truth just hurts. This will be my last post for a while as I am hosting a Christmas party tonight for friends and family. I won't be able to check because I'll be too busy, but I'm sure you'll be on this forum over Christmas and New Year! Do you guys have Christmas and New Year in Canada???

 

[qwopty99]

SY clearly has a bias against optometry.


He criticizes optometry, saying the only good thing about it is money.

The funny thing is that the profession ends up in the top 10 each year in some "best jobs" ranking. The reason? MONEY.

But then he uses salary to say how great the PA profession is.


He then says optometry sux cause there's no intellectual challenge.

What about intellectual chellenge?

Then he says firefighters have a great job, implying it's so easy they apparently can play PS3 all day.



His method of argument is thus as follows:
-Any strengths of optometry are downplayed, but the same characteristics are used as evidence of strengths of other professions.
-Weaknesses of optometry are aggrandized, but are considered strengths in other professions.



Given the bias, his entire argument is therefore weakened, since he is not assessing the merits of professions based on facts, but on personal agenda.

 

[qwopty99]

That's the best you can do? Say I don't have many friends? How old are you? "5"? LMAO!! Yep, you're an OD allright!!
Nothing I said in my first post is untrue. Judging by the response I've gotten, the truth just hurts. This will be my last post for a while as I am hosting a Christmas party tonight for friends and family. I won't be able to check because I'll be too busy, but I'm sure you'll be on this forum over Christmas and New Year! Do you guys have Christmas and New Year in Canada???

I actually forgot it was Christmas. I'm working in Asia at a university. I have to go to work tomorrow (Dec. 25). People are aware of Christmas over here, but you have to look for it and it's easily missed. Like I said, I completely forgot.

As for the truth:

Is it possible some folks have made good careers for themselves in optometry? Yes or No.

 

[Penguin2012]

Uh, let's see...

Firefighter
Engineer
Computer programmer
IT Engineer
College professor
CPA
Financial planner
Lawyer
Physician's Assistant
RN

I can go on forever, if you want me too.

My father is an optometrist in Southern California in Orange County. He showed me his books once and he makes about $240K a year. But he's been in business for 20+ years and runs a solid optical. He is clearly above average.

Instead of anecdotal evidence the best thing to do is rely on statistics from credible sources. If you consult the Bureau of Labor Statistics you'll find that optometrists make $91,040 on average.

Firefights: $41,190

Engineer: Many different subspecialities. Those with equivalent education of an OD (I consider Ph.D) make $75,000. ONLY Computer Engineers with PH.Ds make more on average: $92,500.

Computer Programmer:$65,510

College Professor: $73,207

Accountant: $54,630

Financial Planner: $66,590

Lawyer: $102,470

Physician's Assisstant: $74,980

Registered Nurse: $57,280

There will always be different situations, different companies or levels of employment where salary will change for each occupation. There are optometrists out there who make more than $300,000 a year, just like how you know a friend somewhere is a PA who makes 150K a year or a firefigther who makes $120,000 a year.

For the best statistical data that seems fairly unbiased as far as I know. Consult the US Department of Labor.

http://www.bls.gov/

As you see on your list, ONLY lawyers make more than optometrists. And lawyers still need 3 years of post bachelor education, and reading briefs aren't fun

 

[qwopty99]

Except for the following: The post below is full of trash.

But you are a nurse's tech. You just call yourself "doctor". Especially in the eyes of the DEA; Optometrists, nurses and PAs are all midlevel providers and have the same prescribing abilities. Well actually, nurses and PA's can prescribe more. Can you guys prescribe drugs in Canada? Oh yeah, Nurses and PA's go to school less and don't have the debt and make more. They also don't work at Wall Mart or Costco.

 

[qwopty99]

That's the best you can do? Say I don't have many friends? How old are you? "5"? LMAO!! Yep, you're an OD allright!!
Nothing I said in my first post is untrue. Judging by the response I've gotten, the truth just hurts. This will be my last post for a while as I am hosting a Christmas party tonight for friends and family. I won't be able to check because I'll be too busy, but I'm sure you'll be on this forum over Christmas and New Year! Do you guys have Christmas and New Year in Canada???

You should feel blessed that the profession of optometry has given you the means to host a wonderful Christmas dinner for you and your (imaginary?) friends.

 

[qwopty99]

That's the best you can do? Say I don't have many friends? How old are you? "5"? LMAO!! Yep, you're an OD allright!!

Yet another example of criticizing others for your own behavior.

You're the one who introduced juvenile tactics into this thread ("I feel sorry for you"). Maybe you're the one who is "5".

 

[Meibomian SxN]

If optometry is challenging to you, I feel sorry for you. Not attacking, just sharing my feelings.

You sound like you are just unhappy with life in general, nit just your career choice. Do you think a nurse practitioner who makes close to six figures complains of working in a CVS minute-clinic?

Do you think you will be challenged cutting out cataracts or doing PRP laser? Any job that has the same procedures gets monotonous. Ask any MD who has worked over 5 years; burnout happens very easily if your life revolves around work. Also my boss would love to give you his pager so he doesn't have to go in on a weekend, disturbing his family get togethers, and go to the hospital because someone was admitted for a corneal abrasion!

If you want a challenge, then I suggest you become a school teacher or maybe since you sound "academic oriented" become a Ph.D and challenge yourself to find answers instead of treating symptoms.

And as Eddie Murphy said "Have a coke & a smile.... "

 

[blysssful]

SaveYourself,
Out of curiosity, what pleasure are you deriving from this? Putting down a profession that the majority of people on this forum are moving towards or are already in is rather childish. I understand that you have some serious issues with your life, and that sucks. It REALLY does. And of course it makes sense that the favorite pastime of a pathetic and/or depressed person would be to gripe... but maybe you should gripe to people who actually care about you. I would understand if you have managed to push those people in your life away with your negative attitude, but you can always use that awful six figure salary you have to pay for someone to listen to you.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Uh, let's see...

Firefighter
Engineer
Computer programmer
IT Engineer
College professor
CPA
Financial planner
Lawyer
Physician's Assistant
RN

I can go on forever, if you want me too.

Keep on goin' then. There are certainly extremes in each of the professions you mention that would make more money with less training than some above average optometrists, but that doesn't really seem to be the norm. The average income of the professions you mention, according to BLS, is either significantly less than or about the same as an average optometrist. Clearly you have some sort of enlightened perspective over the rest of us and government statistics; so, I will ask once more, what are careers that make much more money with less training than an optometrist?

For the record, I'm not trying to defend the profession of optometry. I have no qualms with those who aren't satisfied with their career considering about half of what you speak is valid. The other half, however, are merely generalizations that aren't an accurate representation of optometry as a whole. You don't specify where you are practicing or how long you've been practicing. These two aspects are critical. A new grad practicing in southern California would probably read your post and think, "wow, finally somebody who gets it!". On the other hand, an established OD in say, suburban Virginia would probably just think of you as an ungrateful rookie.

If you don't mind me asking, what will be your next step after you leave your current situation? Why do you think this will be a better choice for you and in general for those who might be considering optometry, especially considering the current circumstances of the American economy?

 

[thanotoriousfob]

Really? My friends earn 120+, and work 2 24's and then get 4 days off. When not on calls, they get paid to work out, cook, play PS3 and love their jobs. Is that enough information?

You are lying so much you can't even keep your "facts" straight. You claim that optometry lacks any real intellectual challenge but you sit here praising firefighters playing PS3 all day? So you are telling us PS3 is more challenging than optometry? Good god, I knew I should have listened to my parents when they told me to major in PS3ology. Which game gives you the most respect amongst your peers? Is it Fall Out 3? Because that's what I hear, but what do I know? I am just a NOOB.


Another thing I don't get, I was recently shadowing a doctor and she mentioned how you never put down any health profession especially your own because all that does is put you down. So by you putting down optometry it clearly shows you are putting yourself down. But what do you care? You are "pursuing" something else right now, right?

This thread is hilarious. You have been punked the entire time because none of your statements hold any water. Your inability to provide any facts, throwing random salary figures out there w/o any statistical evidence other then "my friends" or "look it up" or "they live in the west coast" only proves you are in many ways full-blown ******ed. I could believe some of the things you said in your initial post and I know many of them were your own opinions based on your craptastic experience, but every post after the initial accumulated into what I would like to call a schmorgishboard of piling &*^%. It frightens me that your parents might even let you out of the house during the day when society is awake.


Saveyourself, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[qwopty99]

You are lying so much you can't even keep your "facts" straight. You claim that optometry lacks any real intellectual challenge but you sit here praising firefighters playing PS3 all day? So you are telling us PS3 is more challenging than optometry? Good god, I knew I should have listened to my parents when they told me to major in PS3ology. Which game gives you the most respect amongst your peers? Is it Fall Out 3? Because that's what I hear, but what do I know? I am just a NOOB.


Another thing I don't get, I was recently shadowing a doctor and she mentioned how you never put down any health profession especially your own because all that does is put you down. So by you putting down optometry it clearly shows you are putting yourself down. But what do you care? You are "pursuing" something else right now, right?

This thread is hilarious. You have been punked the entire time because none of your statements hold any water. Your inability to provide any facts, throwing random salary figures out there w/o any statistical evidence other then "my friends" or "look it up" or "they live in the west coast" only proves you are in many ways full-blown ******ed. I could believe some of the things you said in your initial post and I know many of them were your own opinions based on your craptastic experience, but every post after the initial accumulated into what I would like to call a schmorgishboard of piling &*^%. It frightens me that your parents might even let you out of the house during the day when society is awake.


Saveyourself, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

That was great.

 

[qwopty99]

Why in god's name would you spend 8 years getting a degree that only allows you to do eye exams when for only a few more years, you could get a degree that allows you to do so much more (research, teach, consult, etc.)

So first he implies the MD is a better career because it's a better deal than optometry because you can research, teach, and consult.


I wonder if any of his firefighter friends do research? Maybe he should ask them as I'd like to see that. A doctor of optometry asking his firefighter friends if they do research.


And his firefighter friends love their jobs because they play PS3 all day. Obviously a perfect career for them. So I guess he's "sorry for his friends" as well? I wonder if he ever lets them know he thinks they're dumb.

But you are a nurse's tech.

Here he says optometrists are nurse's techs. If these jobs are really the same, why is nurse teching (being a PA) such a great job and optometry is so crap?




This individual is real beyond words. But he apparently is off to the MD route. Well - I hope they welcome you with open arms...

 

[KHE]

Saveyourself, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I don't really agree with that...

His delivery definately left something to be desired but I think you have all missed the underlying point which I believe has a lot of truth in it...

I don't want to speak for him, but I think the point that he is trying to make is this:

For the majority of you, your career in optometry is NOT going to be what you envision it to be while you are a pre-optometry student or an optometry student.

Most of you have no desire to work in Walmart or Costco, or Lenscrafters. Yet many of you will in fact end up there. Many of you envision owning or working in large, fancy, optometric practice with waiting rooms filled with cool and interesting ocular pathology patients just dying to partake of your expertise. Yet the majority of you will spend your careers adjusting vision with spectacles, contact lenses and working up the occasional glaucoma suspect and treating the occasional red eye even if you do end up owning a practice of some kind which for many of you will also not happen.

In summary, for many of you, your expecations are unlikely to be met or at the very least, they will be met a much much later point in your career than you expected.

 

[IndianaOD]

I think that it is possible to make optometry quite interesting and intellectually stimulating. No, if you do routine exams all day on young healthy people you will rot in boredom.

Overtime though you can pick up a fair number of disease patients. For me, binocular vision is much more challenging and more interesting than my glaucoma cases. In fact, I bet BV is more mentally challenging than doing cataract surgeries (a technical act) and LASIK. Doesn't pay as much but you have to know a lot of optics, neurology, and visual processing to be good.

I could not do retail optometry and the spin and grin. We have way too much education for that dribble. If I did it over again I might in fact be a dentist or MD because you don't have massive oversupply or so many insurance battles but you can do challenging work in optometry.

 

[thanotoriousfob]

I don't really agree with that...

His delivery definately left something to be desired but I think you have all missed the underlying point which I believe has a lot of truth in it...

I don't want to speak for him, but I think the point that he is trying to make is this:

For the majority of you, your career in optometry is NOT going to be what you envision it to be while you are a pre-optometry student or an optometry student.

Most of you have no desire to work in Walmart or Costco, or Lenscrafters. Yet many of you will in fact end up there. Many of you envision owning or working in large, fancy, optometric practice with waiting rooms filled with cool and interesting ocular pathology patients just dying to partake of your expertise. Yet the majority of you will spend your careers adjusting vision with spectacles, contact lenses and working up the occasional glaucoma suspect and treating the occasional red eye even if you do end up owning a practice of some kind which for many of you will also not happen.

In summary, for many of you, your expecations are unlikely to be met or at the very least, they will be met a much much later point in your career than you expected.

Relax. It's a quote from Billy Madison.

 

[qwopty99]

I don't really agree with that...

His delivery definately left something to be desired but I think you have all missed the underlying point which I believe has a lot of truth in it...

I don't want to speak for him, but I think the point that he is trying to make is this:

For the majority of you, your career in optometry is NOT going to be what you envision it to be while you are a pre-optometry student or an optometry student.

Most of you have no desire to work in Walmart or Costco, or Lenscrafters. Yet many of you will in fact end up there. Many of you envision owning or working in large, fancy, optometric practice with waiting rooms filled with cool and interesting ocular pathology patients just dying to partake of your expertise. Yet the majority of you will spend your careers adjusting vision with spectacles, contact lenses and working up the occasional glaucoma suspect and treating the occasional red eye even if you do end up owning a practice of some kind which for many of you will also not happen.

In summary, for many of you, your expecations are unlikely to be met or at the very least, they will be met a much much later point in your career than you expected.

I think the only thing he showed everyone is that he's an unrepentant @sshole.



No fires in Canada. Who's the one talking about maturity again?



Oh - did I mention SY is an @sshole?



I don't practice in the US, but I interned there, and I have friends who tell me optometry in the US isn't that bad. But I am a Canadian so I can't comment on the US.

Speaking of authority to comment, I guess SY shouldn't comment on the firefighter profession because he isn't a firefighter? Is that reasonable? But if he CAN, then I can talk about US optometry because I have US optometry friends, right?



Merry Christmas to you all, including SY's (imaginary?) friends, and all the wonderful firefighters in the world who are being paid to play PS3 (so does that mean if their PS3 playstation breaks down, they stop being paid?).

 

[qwopty99]

If firefighters are playing PS3 all day, who is fighting fires?

 

[stonegoat]

Saveyourself.....I am glad a border separates us, and that you will never venture to my "frozen wasteland". I guess optometry in the States sucks...too bad. Anyway, get a life you bitter, pathetic little foolish American.

 

[aphistis]

Easy, guys. You're doing a pretty good job exposing the troll; no need to resort to name-calling. Merry Christmas to all.

 

[itek2OD]

Oh yeah, Nurses and PA's go to school less and don't have the debt and make more. They also don't work at Wall Mart or Costco.

...yet.

 

[pienfoo]

everyone here needs to shut up, you are an embarassment to this forum.

Merry Christmas!

 

[qwopty99]

Easy, guys. You're doing a pretty good job exposing the troll; no need to resort to name-calling. Merry Christmas to all.

That's fine. I won't call him names anymore. I'll just call him a hypocrite.


Why is he a hypocrite?

He:
1. says we attacked his character.
2. called me immature.

When in fact, he;
1. attacked our character (said we were insecure, called me immature).
2. acted immature (I'm so sorry for you, are there fires in Canada?).


The logical reasoning of SaveYourself:

He says optometry sucks cause:
1. the only good thing about it is pay.
2. no intellectual challenge.

He says firefighting is good cause:
1. the pay
2. no intellectual challenge.



Smart man indeed.

 

[r_salis]

Fun's over, nothing to see here, move along.

Closing thread.