Let's do some echo:

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Pt is 50 something male. Hx of HTN, CAD with prior PCI maybe a year ago. Was doing fine last year but over the course of the last three to four months has progressively been getting more dyspneic with orthopnea and having symptoms of malaise. Finally couldn't take it anymore and checked himself into the hospital.

Surgeon wants to take him to OR for a procedure. He is quite dyspneic on 5-6L O2 satting 95, unable to lie flat, hypotensive to SBP 85-95 on no pressors but mentating well. He's received multiple liters of fluid over the last 48 hrs in the hospital.


What's going on? Anything else you want to know? How do you want to proceed?

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Is the last set of images TG SAX? 😂
This is a juicy ❤️ case.
Thanks for sharing @vector2
 
Not ruling out RV thrombus/mass quite yet.

Can we see some RV/liver images?
 
Think it would be good to get the diagnosis first and then talk about anesthetic management.
 
Why would the surgeon put wires in the groin but not cannulate that patient and go on peripherally?

The sequence from wires to whatever to successful va ecmo isn't slow but it's still probably a few minutes. Hell heparin takes 3 mins to circulate... does he want you to give heparin also pre induction?

I don't really understand this approach, in this patient... can he read echos? This guys likely to die with any change in his sympathetic tone or ppv
 
Not sure if that mass is within or external to the RV. Either way awake bypass/ECMO cannulation or go home.
 
Umm, agree with everyone. Awake peripheral cannulation or you do nothing.

I have no idea what I’m looking at in the last two images. I can’t see the RV free wall at all but the mixed density effusion appears to be external to RV. The gas pocket is interesting, implies infectious etiology?

I’ve never seen an RV free wall aneurysm/pseudoaneurysm but I can’t even see any free wall so I can’t even say which it could be. I’m gonna go with ruptured RV aneurysm only because the entire free wall must be incredibly thin to not be visible and because I’m zebra hunting. But, if that’s the case I’m not sure there’s anything to do.

Crazy images, wish I could hold the probe. Can’t wait to be completely wrong lol.

Edit: hmm maybe you can see the basal free wall in some images. So I’m going with apical free wall rupture.
 
Umm, agree with everyone. Awake peripheral cannulation or you do nothing.

I have no idea what I’m looking at in the last two images. I can’t see the RV free wall at all but the mixed density effusion appears to be external to RV. The gas pocket is interesting, implies infectious etiology?

I’ve never seen an RV free wall aneurysm/pseudoaneurysm but I can’t even see any free wall so I can’t even say which it could be. I’m gonna go with ruptured RV aneurysm only because the entire free wall must be incredibly thin to not be visible and because I’m zebra hunting. But, if that’s the case I’m not sure there’s anything to do.

Crazy images, wish I could hold the probe. Can’t wait to be completely wrong lol.

Edit: hmm maybe you can see the basal free wall in some images. So I’m going with apical free wall rupture.

Gas pocket? That would cause major artifact (shadowing, hyperechoic, etc). I assume you're talking about the hypoechoic fluid in the middle of the giant extra cardiac thing.
 
Gas pocket? That would cause major artifact (shadowing, hyperechoic, etc). I assume you're talking about the hypoechoic fluid in the middle of the giant extra cardiac thing.
Touché. I guess you’re correct. That hypoechoic void within the collection of echo density is odd to me though. If it was simply old static blood I’d expect some stranding or similar heterogenous elements in there.

No idea, it’s late, now I just want to know wtf is going on there.
 
Why would the surgeon put wires in the groin but not cannulate that patient and go on peripherally?

The sequence from wires to whatever to successful va ecmo isn't slow but it's still probably a few minutes. Hell heparin takes 3 mins to circulate... does he want you to give heparin also pre induction?

I don't really understand this approach, in this patient... can he read echos? This guys likely to die with any change in his sympathetic tone or ppv
That’s 3 minutes to circulate in a “normal” heart. This dude’s CI prob has a decimal point in front of it.
 
Umm, agree with everyone. Awake peripheral cannulation or you do nothing.

I have no idea what I’m looking at in the last two images. I can’t see the RV free wall at all but the mixed density effusion appears to be external to RV. The gas pocket is interesting, implies infectious etiology?

I’ve never seen an RV free wall aneurysm/pseudoaneurysm but I can’t even see any free wall so I can’t even say which it could be. I’m gonna go with ruptured RV aneurysm only because the entire free wall must be incredibly thin to not be visible and because I’m zebra hunting. But, if that’s the case I’m not sure there’s anything to do.

Crazy images, wish I could hold the probe. Can’t wait to be completely wrong lol.

Edit: hmm maybe you can see the basal free wall in some images. So I’m going with apical free wall rupture.
Apical free wall rupture is dead in 30 seconds... you don't get many opportunities for shots there and usually pretty busy...
Had one last year unfortunately
 
Touché. I guess you’re correct. That hypoechoic void within the collection of echo density is odd to me though. If it was simply old static blood I’d expect some stranding or similar heterogenous elements in there.

No idea, it’s late, now I just want to know wtf is going on there.
That was my thinking as well.
 
Apical free wall rupture is dead in 30 seconds... you don't get many opportunities for shots there and usually pretty busy...
Had one last year unfortunately
I can see that. Etiology has to be a slow enough leak into the pericardial space to not kill in minutes and last long enough to coagulate and slowly obliterate the RV like that appears it has. So someone mentioned coronary leak/fistula, and mass is always possible I guess.

We need an answer. But OP may still be in the case lol.
 
I can see that. Etiology has to be a slow enough leak into the pericardial space to not kill in minutes and last long enough to coagulate and slowly obliterate the RV like that appears it has. So someone mentioned coronary leak/fistula, and mass is always possible I guess.

We need an answer. But OP may still be in the case lol.

Case was months ago. Sorry, just haven't gotten around yet to making some post-cpb clips
 
For trainees: what view is this? Which papillary muscle is this? What is the blood supply to this pap muscle? Repair or replace?

Slowed it down a bit, but this was from the weekend. CABG + bMVR.

Forgot to get pictures of the new valve, but I didn't love it. One of the leaflets was slightly tethered or kinked causing more regurgitation than you'd expect in a brand new valve. My suspicion is that it got caught under a chorda. Ultimately we decided to not go back on pump seeking marginal improvement, as the lady was barely hanging on the ropes to begin with.
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Case was months ago. Sorry, just haven't gotten around yet to making some post-cpb clips
Also, still waiting on the result of the case you shared. Details even if you don't have pictures!
 
For trainees: what view is this? Which papillary muscle is this? What is the blood supply to this pap muscle? Repair or replace?

Slowed it down a bit, but this was from the weekend. CABG + bMVR.

Forgot to get pictures of the new valve, but I didn't love it. One of the leaflets was slightly tethered or kinked causing more regurgitation than you'd expect in a brand new valve. My suspicion is that it got caught under a chorda. Ultimately we decided to not go back on pump seeking marginal improvement, as the lady was barely hanging on the ropes to begin with.View attachment 399197
Good work. Ischemic pap rupture has been 100% operative mortality for us recently
 
Also, still waiting on the result of the case you shared. Details even if you don't have pictures!

(link to the original post from forever ago for anyone just seeing this reply: Let's do some echo:)


Unfortunately I can't get the post-op clips cause it was so long ago it's archived in PACS, and the archive retrieval isn't working.

Anyway, the folks who suggested peripheral VA-ECMO cannulation had the same thinking as I did. Problem is, the senior CT surgeons here at the time wanted nothing to do with our fledgling low-volume ECMO program, in part due to not wanting to deal with access complications in non-CT patients if they were consulted and in part due to lack of familiarity, hence they were not willing to go along with that plan. They wanted to get some sheaths in the groin and then try to go on pump peripherally if he crashed out.

Anyway, since ECMO was out I had to come up with an alternative plan for sternotomy. Spent about half an hour liberally topicalizing the guy's airway in the ICU with 4% lido nebs, 4% viscous atomization, and 5% paste smeared on some pharyngeal structures. Dead numb to oral stimulation at that point.

A-line done in ICU. Roll to OR, and of course he's still SOB so he's 30 degrees head up at this point. Low dose norepi and vaso are running to support a MAP of 60-65. Start low dose precedex and give him a tiny dose of versed and ketamine. Surgeons start working on the groin sheaths while we do a MAC line in the neck. Have to increase the precedex a bit given groin discomfort. Also start with low dose epi knowing full well inotropes and vasopressors are not fixing the underlying problem.

Lines are in and now it's time for sternotomy. Even with low-dose sedation and no opioids, the guy is now at the point where he has maxed out his psychological and physical reserves. That is to say, he's becoming pretty obtunded and vasopressor support is going up. I put the mask on and close the popoff and do a "test breath." Hemodynamics don't change much with a 10-15 cm H2O positive pressure breath and I needed to confirm this because I'm thinking that even if you could magically unsedate the guy he's not going to have the reserve to breathe adequately in about 10-15 minutes.

Even though he's getting obtunded, he's not to the point of being a floppy fish where anyone could slip a blade in. I've used etomidate about 5 times in the last 8 years in the heart room, and this was one of 'em. Small dose of etomidate and a few more milligrams of ketamine along with an epi push and we're able to put the McGrath in. No reaction from him and we intubate easily. Turned a tiny bit of iso on, put him on PSV with no PEEP and gradually increased the inspiratory support. Hemodynamics remained rock stable.

I think we're good to paralyze so roc goes in, pt goes on positive pressure ventilation without crashing (norepi now at 20 mcg/min, epi at 2, vaso at 0.04).

Surgeons does sternotomy and of course whatever this mass is has totally frozen itself between the pericardium and epicardium. Super dense. Surgeons dissect as much as they can but it becomes clear they're not going to be able to establish an adequate tissue plane without going on pump. So, we heparinize and go on peripherally.

Long story short, we get to the "mass" totally obliterating the right heart and it is what appears to be.....a massive old blood clot. Turns out, the history of PCI was relevant in that this was likely a months-old coronary perforation from his RCA PCI that just kept accumulating blood without causing symptoms until it reached critical mass. Surgeons were able to remove it and then went through the long task of performing a pericardiectomy d/t the inflammation of having all that old-ass blood and fibrin sitting there for so long.

Pt comes off pump like a champ on minimal support now that he actually has an RV again. Extubated POD 1. D/c'ed POD 6 with no issues at all.
 
Last edited:
(link to the original post from forever ago for anyone just seeing this reply: Let's do some echo:)


Unfortunately I can't get the post-op clips cause it was so long ago it's archived in PACS, and the archive retrieval isn't working.

Anyway, the folks who suggested peripheral VA-ECMO cannulation had the same thinking as I did. Problem is, the senior CT surgeons here at the time wanted nothing to do with our fledgling low-volume ECMO program, in part due to not wanting to deal with access complications in non-CT patients if they were consulted and in part due to lack of familiarity, hence they were not willing to go along with that plan. They wanted to get some sheaths in the groin and then try to go on pump peripherally if he crashed out.

Anyway, since ECMO was out I had to come up with an alternative plan for sternotomy. Spent about half an hour liberally topicalizing the guy's airway in the ICU with 4% lido nebs, 4% viscous atomization, and 5% paste smeared on some pharyngeal structures. Dead numb to oral stimulation at that point.

A-line done in ICU. Roll to OR, and of course he's still SOB so he's 30 degrees head up at this point. Low dose norepi and vaso are running to support a MAP of 60-65. Start low dose precedex and give him a tiny dose of versed and ketamine. Surgeons start working on the groin sheaths while we do a MAC line in the neck. Have to increase the precedex a bit given groin discomfort. Also start with low dose epi knowing full well inotropes and vasopressors are not fixing the underlying problem.

Lines are in and now it's time for sternotomy. Even with low-dose sedation and no opioids, the guy is now at the point where he has maxed out his psychological and physical reserves. That is to say, he's becoming pretty obtunded and vasopressor support is going up. I put the mask on and close the popoff and do a "test breath." Hemodynamics don't change much with a 10-15 cm H2O positive pressure breath and I needed to confirm this because I'm thinking that even if you could magically unsedate the guy he's not going to have the reserve to breathe adequately in about 10-15 minutes.

Even though he's getting obtunded, he's not to the point of being a floppy fish where anyone could slip a blade in. I've used etomidate about 5 times in the last 8 years in the heart room, and this was one of 'em. Small dose of etomidate and a few more milligrams of ketamine along with an epi push and we're able to put the McGrath in. No reaction from him and we intubate easily. Turned a tiny bit of iso on, put him on PSV with no PEEP and gradually increased the inspiratory support. Hemodynamics remained rock stable.

I think we're good to paralyze so roc goes in, pt goes on positive pressure ventilation without crashing (norepi now at 20 mcg/min, epi at 2, vaso at 0.04).

Surgeons does sternotomy and of course whatever this mass is has totally frozen itself between the pericardium and epicardium. Super dense. Surgeons dissect as much as they can but it becomes clear they're not going to be able to establish an adequate tissue plane without going on pump. So, we heparinize and go on peripherally.

Long story short, we get to the "mass" totally obliterating the right heart and it is what appears to be.....a massive old blood clot. Turns out, the history of PCI was relevant in that this was likely a months-old coronary perforation from his RCA PCI that just kept accumulating blood without causing symptoms until it reached critical mass. Surgeons were able to remove it and then went through the long task of performing a pericardiectomy d/t the inflammation of having all that old-ass blood and fibrin sitting there for so long.

Pt comes off pump like a champ on minimal support now that he actually has an RV again. Extubated POD 1. D/c'ed POD 6 with no issues at all.
Very nice work.
 
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