Letter is the reason im not hearing responses?

[DrOwnage]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi everybody,

I applied back in mid-July to 22 colleges and haven't heard anything back besides rejections at UC Davis, UC Irvine, and Michigan. I have a 3.9 GPA from UCSB in Pharmacology and a 30Q MCAT. I'm starting to wonder why I am not receiving any interviews as it is getting pretty late in the cycle. I'm also curious why more schools haven't rejected me at this point if they aren't going to give me an interview.

I was talking to my friend in graduate school the other day about applications. I did research in a lab for 2 years, 10 hours a week, under a professor that has been teaching at UCSB for 40 years. He was really old (late 70's) and only showed up to the lab about 1-2 times a month, so all of my work was coordinated by a graduate student. When I got my letter of rec, the graduate student wrote it and the PI signed off on it. When I told my friend that the graduate student wrote my letter, he was sure that was the reason I wasn't getting any interviews.

Is that true? I don't understand how a school would discount a letter from 2 years of research experience simply because it is written by a graduate student. Opinions? Also should I be worried that so many schools haven't responded yet?

Thank you.

 

[sector9]

Hi everybody,

I applied back in mid-July to 22 colleges and haven't heard anything back besides rejections at UC Davis, UC Irvine, and Michigan. I have a 3.9 GPA from UCSB in Pharmacology and a 30Q MCAT. I'm starting to wonder why I am not receiving any interviews as it is getting pretty late in the cycle. I'm also curious why more schools haven't rejected me at this point if they aren't going to give me an interview.

I was talking to my friend in graduate school the other day about applications. I did research in a lab for 2 years, 10 hours a week, under a professor that has been teaching at UCSB for 40 years. He was really old (late 70's) and only showed up to the lab about 1-2 times a month, so all of my work was coordinated by a graduate student. When I got my letter of rec, the graduate student wrote it and the PI signed off on it. When I told my friend that the graduate student wrote my letter, he was sure that was the reason I wasn't getting any interviews.

Is that true? I don't understand how a school would discount a letter from 2 years of research experience simply because it is written by a graduate student. Opinions? Also should I be worried that so many schools haven't responded yet?

Thank you.

That's not it.

Any institutional actions? Misdemeanors or felonies?

To give you a better idea, we would want to know info about your EC's and time spans, your other LORs, your PS, etc. This particular letter is not the reason though

 

[aSagacious]

I really doubt that your cosigned letter is the sole reason (or even a contributor) as to why you're not receiving any interviews. I'd be much more inclined to look at your school selection, personal statement, MCAT breakdown, other extra-curriculars, etc.

 

[Catalystik]

That's not it.

I really doubt that your cosigned letter is the sole reason (or even a contributor) as to why you're not receiving any interviews.

I completely agree.

 

[DrOwnage]

MCAT Breakdown: Verbal: 8 Phys: 11 Bio: 11

I have 2 other letters, one from a pharmacology professor and another from the undergraduate biology advisor who I worked under for 2 years.

My personal statement was about a personal medical problem that I went through for 4 years during high school and the beginning of college. I had really bad chronic idiopathic urticaria and had to visit like 12 different doctors. The whole experience made me want to enter the medical field.

Schools left to hear from: USC, Loma Linda, Baylor, Iowa Carver, Creighton, Wisconsin, Emory, Ohio State, Miami Miller, Tufts, Mt. Sinai, Colorade, Drexel, Charles E. Schmidt, Jefferson, North Western, St. Louis, Rochester.

 

[Itsame]

Hi everybody,

I applied back in mid-July to 22 colleges and haven't heard anything back besides rejections at UC Davis, UC Irvine, and Michigan. I have a 3.9 GPA from UCSB in Pharmacology and a 30Q MCAT. I'm starting to wonder why I am not receiving any interviews as it is getting pretty late in the cycle. I'm also curious why more schools haven't rejected me at this point if they aren't going to give me an interview.

I was talking to my friend in graduate school the other day about applications. I did research in a lab for 2 years, 10 hours a week, under a professor that has been teaching at UCSB for 40 years. He was really old (late 70's) and only showed up to the lab about 1-2 times a month, so all of my work was coordinated by a graduate student. When I got my letter of rec, the graduate student wrote it and the PI signed off on it. When I told my friend that the graduate student wrote my letter, he was sure that was the reason I wasn't getting any interviews.

Is that true? I don't understand how a school would discount a letter from 2 years of research experience simply because it is written by a graduate student. Opinions? Also should I be worried that so many schools haven't responded yet?

Thank you.

If there was a problem with one of your letters (as in, it didn't meet a school's qualifications) you would probably know. Do any of your schools have online status updates, where they tell you if your letter was received and/or meets their standards?

I ran into a problem with at least one of my schools where a letter was being counted as a "science" letter when I was considering it a "non-science" letter (it was from an epi prof). I called up the school to work it out, and everything turned out fine. I sent brief emails to other schools that required a "non-science" letter to make sure I wasn't running into the same problem there, and they all got back to me pretty quickly.

It's a tough spot to be worried about something that's out of your hands. Why not call up one or two school and just check in to make sure your letters fulfill their requirements? It'll put your mind at ease while you wait to hear back.

For what it's worth (and I'm no admissions person or anything), but as long as a professor signed off on the letter, I think you should be fine. Best of luck!

 

[Itsame]

MCAT Breakdown: Verbal: 8 Phys: 11 Bio: 11

I have 2 other letters, one from a pharmacology professor and another from the undergraduate biology advisor who I worked under for 2 years.

My personal statement was about a personal medical problem that I went through for 4 years during high school and the beginning of college. I had really bad chronic idiopathic urticaria and had to visit like 12 different doctors. The whole experience made me want to enter the medical field.

Schools left to hear from: USC, Loma Linda, Baylor, Iowa Carver, Creighton, Wisconsin, Emory, Ohio State, Miami Miller, Tufts, Mt. Sinai, Colorade, Drexel, Charles E. Schmidt, Jefferson, North Western, St. Louis, Rochester.

Ah! I just noticed that you applied to Creighton! That's the school where I noticed I might have problem. Check the status of your secondary application. If you have the three green check marks you need next to your letters, you should be good to go!

 

[DrOwnage]

Thank you guys for your advice. The whole application process is pretty unnerving, not to mention expensive. It's nice to know that someone is going through or has gone through the same process. I will call some schools tomorrow to find out about the letter requirements (sounds like a good idea). I'm also going to check up on the Creighton status page.

Thanks again guys!

 

[music2doc]

MCAT Breakdown: Verbal: 8 Phys: 11 Bio: 11

I have 2 other letters, one from a pharmacology professor and another from the undergraduate biology advisor who I worked under for 2 years.

My personal statement was about a personal medical problem that I went through for 4 years during high school and the beginning of college. I had really bad chronic idiopathic urticaria and had to visit like 12 different doctors. The whole experience made me want to enter the medical field.

Schools left to hear from: USC, Loma Linda, Baylor, Iowa Carver, Creighton, Wisconsin, Emory, Ohio State, Miami Miller, Tufts, Mt. Sinai, Colorade, Drexel, Charles E. Schmidt, Jefferson, North Western, St. Louis, Rochester.

I'd suspect your MCAT might be the major issue. Other things need to be very strong for early consideration with a mediocre MCAT. It's also a bit lopsided and your choices are a bit heavily-weighted on mid- to tough- schools. To really be competitive with an unbalanced 30, you need ridiculous ECs, etc. as well as an excellent GPA (which you have).

 

[CodeBlu]

Ay, there's the rub... that verbal score is a flag at most MD schools.

 

[Knocked Up]

MCAT Breakdown: Verbal: 8 Phys: 11 Bio: 11

This is most def the reason. All I can say is that I hope that adcoms do look past it tho. You pretty much need a wild card with a low MCAT / low subsection.

Wild cards include:

1) Top 10 in Miss USA pageant (especially when an old guy is interviewing you)

2) Division I athlete with a good track record (all american will help or olympic medals)... firm handshakes and height in excess of 6'5 do help too

3) 3+ pubs

4) ...wait I just looked at your school list, never mind...give it a coupe weeks and you should hear a peep out of the lower ranks...

good luck

 

[vairules]

A negative letter can definitely tank your app, imo. The problem with that is that it's impossible to tell. In fact, the problem with this whole process is that there are way too many variables to determine what exactly is holding someone back. If you haven't received any invites by January, then I'd start worrying and preparing for next cycle.

 

[zamzee]

If you're really worried, you can call the admissions offices of the schools that rejected you and ask why. Also, I had a co-signed letter from a grad student as well and I don't think it held me back at all. I also think the 8 Verbal would be more of a factor than a co-signed letter.

 

[alexandertg6]

I'm guessing youre a Cali resident, and a few friends I talked to think this is looking like a rough cycle for the high GPA/low MCAT Cali crowd. Give it time, and if you dont get in this year, retake the MCAT. Theres no shame in it-- thats what I did and now I am in the process of reapplying.

Best,

Alex

 

[sha15]

I mean how severely unbalanced and problematic is 11, 11, 8? Is an 11, 10, 9 that much of a difference?

 

[Knocked Up]

In all honesty, OP, the whole Med School application process is pretty much dumb luck. Sure, if you have an awesome mcat score and high gpa you will [most likely] have good results, but for us "average" folk -- it is just dumb luck based off different degrees of subjectivity. 6% acceptance rate? 4% acceptance rate? 2% acceptance rate?!

At School X, 2 people out of every 100 get accepted? Keep in mind that these 100 people are largely similar in qualifications. 2 out of 100. Wrap your mind around that for a moment.

Case in point: Among all the schools I applied to, I included the majority of the "Top 20" (if the whole process is subjective, why not?). Out of all those Top 20 schools, to date, I have received only ONE interview... "Just one? Yeah, prob a school closer to #20 than any Top10, right?" No, it was freakin' #1 ranked Harvard... Of course, I won't be accepted there 😛 -- but it supports my point: Med school admissions is largely bunk.

Do the best you can to remain sane, keep your fingers crossed that some random schmo at random school X seeing some random thing in your app that makes him want to bring you in for an interview. If you don't get accepted anywhere, apply next cycle... That's how the story goes.

👍

This process makes the Rhodes Scholarship (read: the most biased BS scholarship on the face of the Earth) seem like an orderly affair

 

[NYCMS2]

Bingo.

The low verbal score is a big problem, falls below an unwritten cutoff at many schools.

How were your MCAT pretests? Were you expecting something higher? You are on the borderline for a retake, especially with that 8...

 

[docbrill]

I have to disagree with the above posts. I have a lower MCAT and two subsections with scores of 8, and I've received multiple IIs and two MD acceptances so far (Not URM and acceptances are not in state schools).

DrOwnage, your problem may very well be somewhere other than your MCAT. A bad letter could very well sink your chances - many people underestimate the importance of LORs in both interview and admission decisions. At virtually every interview I attended my interviewer/s mentioned one or more of my letters. However, your specific concern about the grad student's LOR should not make a negative impact unless he said something negative in it.

Since your stats are not ideal, you need to "make up" for it in other areas, such as extracurriculars, LORs, or some outstanding awards/experiences. If you don't have anything that stands out you just have to hope for some luck, and all you can really do right now is wait. You can also make sure that your letters are excellent and even work on some weaker areas you may have (in case you need to reapply). I wish you the best of luck and let us know how this turns out for you!

 

[Celerity]

If you think OP's MCAT score is unbalanced and verbal is low, mine is practically the same. I have numerous interviews and acceptances.

OP, did you have that letter reading service check out your letters?
Also, did you have a pre health advising committee at your school?
If you did and didn't have them write a committee letter it is a red flag. (source: LizzyM)
Also, did you have several people read your PS?
From want others have said, your PS is a big part of the battle in getting an interview.

 

[flodhi1]

OP don't get absorbed into the SDN hype; the 8 in your section is most likely NOT the reason why you're not hearing back from all the schools.

 

[soundnin]

If you think OP's MCAT score is unbalanced and verbal is low, mine is practically the same. I have numerous interviews and acceptances.

but you're a texan applying within the texas system...

anyway, to OP, if you don't hear back from more schools within the next month or so, then i would START to worry. you're probably sitting in the middle of the stack in terms of ranking at all your schools. take this from someone who has been rejected from just over half of the 28 schools i applied to - hearing nothing is better than flat out rejection.

 

[Celerity]

but you're a texan applying within the texas system...

anyway, to OP, if you don't hear back from more schools within the next month or so, then i would START to worry. you're probably sitting in the middle of the stack in terms of ranking at all your schools. take this from someone who has been rejected from just over half of the 28 schools i applied to - hearing nothing is better than flat out rejection.

True, the Texas system is easier but his score is 30. If you look at the "Official do I Retake" MCAT forum the consensus is that if your score is 30 or higher and no subscore under 8 then do not retake.


Also, all of my others questions and statements are still valid

 

[Starlightembers]

👍

This process makes the Rhodes Scholarship (read: the most biased BS scholarship on the face of the Earth) seem like an orderly affair

Not to bring the thread off topic; but why do you see the Rhodes competition to be "the most biased BS scholarship on the face of the Earth"? Though the majority of scholars do come from top schools, many have not (and non-top schools nominate less people, as well), and, as such, I have always heard it speculated that the true advantage of going to a top school is the information and preparation the top schools can give in concern to the application process (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc all have faculty that have been hired for the sole purpose of guiding students through the process). Which isn't so much bias on the part of the Rhodes people, as much as it is these top schools grooming their students for the scholarship. The same thing applies to the Marshall Scholarship, as well.

It is, however, one of the more subjective scholarships on the face of the Earth. Academics do mean a lot, of course; however, your ECs likely are more important to Rhodes than they are to medical school.

 

[akatigerj]

MCAT Breakdown: Verbal: 8 Phys: 11 Bio: 11

I have 2 other letters, one from a pharmacology professor and another from the undergraduate biology advisor who I worked under for 2 years.

My personal statement was about a personal medical problem that I went through for 4 years during high school and the beginning of college. I had really bad chronic idiopathic urticaria and had to visit like 12 different doctors. The whole experience made me want to enter the medical field.

Schools left to hear from: USC, Loma Linda, Baylor, Iowa Carver, Creighton, Wisconsin, Emory, Ohio State, Miami Miller, Tufts, Mt. Sinai, Colorade, Drexel, Charles E. Schmidt, Jefferson, North Western, St. Louis, Rochester.

a 3.9/30 is good, but i think you should've applied more broadly.

baylor, emory, mt sinai, northwestern have very high avgs.

i'm assuming you're a cali resident, so it would be harder to get into carver, wisconsin, ohio state, miami, colorado,

 

[DrOwnage]

I am a California resident unfortunately... Yeah and sadly over the 13 practice MCATS I was taking, I averaged a 33.5. I'm pretty sure it isn't my letters of recommendation. They might find my personal statement to be weird since it is mostly about my struggle with an illness. I probably should have wrote about saving 18 babies from a burning building while roundhouse kicking ninjas in the face. But all I can do now is wait and hope that someone on the admissions committee finds something favorable in my app.

Thank you again everyone for all the advice.

 

[mishaS]

a 3.9/30 is good, but i think you should've applied more broadly.

baylor, emory, mt sinai, northwestern have very high avgs.

i'm assuming you're a cali resident, so it would be harder to get into carver, wisconsin, ohio state, miami, colorado,

This. I hate to ask this but what exactly were you thinking applying to Baylor, who's students have an average MCAT of 36, or Michigan, who's students have an average MCAT of 35? A 30, while a decent score which shouldn't limit you too much on getting in at less competitive schools, is still bellow the average of all medical students who are accepted, let alone those at competitive schools. Did you get that MSAR book to see what matriculant data looked like? I really hope your premed adviser didn't sell you on applying to tons of reach schools.

 

[pdxjazz]

This. I hate to ask this but what exactly were you thinking applying to Baylor, who's students have an average MCAT of 36, or Michigan, who's students have an average MCAT of 35? A 30, while a decent score which shouldn't limit you too much on getting in at less competitive schools, is still bellow the average of all medical students who are accepted, let alone those at competitive schools. Did you get that MSAR book to see what matriculant data looked like? I really hope your premed adviser didn't sell you on applying to tons of reach schools.

I does appear that the majority of schools you applied to would be considered "reach schools" based on your stats. Your LizzyM score, MCAT + GPA(10) = 69, well below most of those school's scores. There are many OOS friendly schools in your range or below that you probably should have had on your list (Tulane, EVMS, NYMC, Loyola, Rush, GWU, etc.) that likely would have made your application more competitive. You still may hear something from Drexel or Creighton, but beyond those two it may not be in the cards as your choice of state schools tend to favor high stat OOS applicants, and the private schools you picked are difficult for most any applicant to get into.

So if you don't get accepted this year, you can either apply next cycle to a much better target of schools, or retake the MCAT and hope for a higher/better balanced score. And remember, more than half of all applicants won't get an acceptance this year so becoming a reapplicant is not unusual. If you need some direction on school choices, you can always ask on SDN and someone will help you (there is a whole section for that).