Letter of Intent Protocol

[Mad Jack]

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Why do adcoms even allow bribery to happen?
What kind of doctor/person do they think the candidate will be if he/she feels comfortable with bribing her way into a position?
It appalls me that faculty or adcoms take cheating/professionalism/integrity breach in med school very seriously but turn a blind eye on a similar behavior.

The facilities you learn, train, and research within don't build themselves. Donors are incredibly important to a medical school's survival and prosperity, and legacy donors, in particular, tend to be a steady source of funds. Is it fair? No. But if the whole class is benefitting and the kid is competent enough to make it through school, it's often a deal with the devil worth making.

 

[Mad Jack]

If you make a large enough donation (5-10 million but likely more for schools like HMS) to the school, you can get into any school (college, graduate, or professional) in America.

This is fairly well-accepted at basically all schools.

Yeah. Those Saudi princes didn't get into Ivies through hard work and determination, that's for sure.

 

[Officer Farva]

If you make a large enough donation (5-10 million but likely more for schools like HMS) to the school, you can get into any school (college, graduate, or professional) in America.

This is fairly well-accepted at basically all schools.

Got to love being middle class in this country! Too rich to get full rides, too poor to bribe my way past adcoms.

 

[Mad Jack]

Got to love being middle class in this country! Too rich to get full rides, too poor to bribe my way past adcoms.

I'd have settled for any level of a ride. 400k in loans bro. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of the good that donors can do for a school, so I'm not really bitter about it.

 

[Officer Farva]

I'd have settled for any level of a ride. 400k in loans bro. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of the good that donors can do for a school, so I'm not really bitter about it.

Wow! I don't think I can afford to send my future kids to medical school. My state school has tuition that rose by 3x since the 90s. I wonder where the extra money has gone?

 

[Mad Jack]

Wow! I don't think I can afford to send my future kids to medical school. My state school has tuition that rose by 3x since the 90s. I wonder where the extra money has gone?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/o...eason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?_r=0

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

 

[Officer Farva]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/o...eason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?_r=0

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

Attending an interview day is definitely evident of where money is being wasted, er I mean spent. I doubt those half million dollar simulations are doing a lot of good in terms of education, the older generation did fine without it. Not to mention, the surplus of deans and associate deans and assistant deans.

 

[Mad Jack]

Attending an interview day is definitely evident of where money is being wasted, er I mean spent. I doubt those half million dollar simulations are doing a lot of good in terms of education, the older generation did fine without it. Not to mention, the surplus of deans and associate deans and assistant deans.

I'm not a big fan of sim robots. What I will say, however, is that many of the facility upgrades we've got in regard to technology have been fantastic. Recorded lectures, functionally arranged classrooms, etc. But overhead is what gets me, there's just too much of it.

 

[Officer Farva]

I'm not a big fan of sim robots. What I will say, however, is that many of the facility upgrades we've got in regard to technology have been fantastic. Recorded lectures, functionally arranged classrooms, etc. But overhead is what gets me, there's just too much of it.

Recorded lectures are awesome! With the other stuff, I totally agree.

 

[Goro]

I hate to go ad hominem on you, but your post is so naive that I really can't supply a answer.

Take it up with the deans; it's their med school.

Why do adcoms even allow bribery to happen?
What kind of doctor/person do they think the candidate will be if he/she feels comfortable with bribing her way into a position?
It appalls me that faculty or adcoms take cheating/professionalism/integrity breach in med school very seriously but turn a blind eye on a similar behavior.

 

[Officer Farva]

Why do adcoms even allow bribery to happen?
What kind of doctor/person do they think the candidate will be if he/she feels comfortable with bribing her way into a position?
It appalls me that faculty or adcoms take cheating/professionalism/integrity breach in med school very seriously but turn a blind eye on a similar behavior.

Welcome to the real world! No matter how much someone says the word compassion, collaboration, and reaching out to the needy, money talks.

 

[Curioso06]

We don't much care.

While what you're saying is in line with what we see a lot in the real world (e.g., in business, you can only make one deal when you have two on the table), it's strange to believe that this would also happen to med school admissions. That is, a candidate's value is only realized when another higher-ranked school also recognizes it, i.e., it is not enough for a school to trust its own judgment about a candidate's qualifications without confirmation from some other highly ranked school.

Somehow it comes down to this for some med school adcom:

1) Waitlisted candidate who didn't apply to any other higher ranked-school
2) Same waitlisted candidate + acceptance offer from higher-ranked school

#2 is more desirable than #1 due to circumstance and not because s/he is inherently a great candidate, even though they are the same in each case!

 

[gyngyn]

While what you're saying is in line with what we see a lot in the real world (e.g., in business, you can only make one deal when you have two on the table), it's strange to believe that this would also happen to med school admissions. That is, a candidate's value is only realized when another higher-ranked school also recognizes it, i.e., it is not enough for a school to trust its own judgment about a candidate's qualifications without confirmation from some other highly ranked school.

Somehow it comes down to this for some med school adcom:

1) Waitlisted candidate who didn't apply to any other higher ranked-school
2) Same waitlisted candidate + acceptance offer from higher-ranked school

#2 is more desirable than #1 due to circumstance and not because s/he is inherently a great candidate, even though they are the same in each case!

We have a waitlist. We have the facts in front of us. We will pick the best candidate that is likely to come.
Calling someone from the waitlist that will carefully ponder the decision for two weeks and then turn it down just increases suffering and delays an offer to someone who will accept. This is why I allow for a heads up from those who have gotten into a "better" school, not because we judge them to be better.

We never trust the judgement of other schools. I've seen some awful candidates get into very fine schools.

 

[Officer Farva]

We have a waitlist. We have the facts in front of us. We will pick the best candidate that is likely to come.
Calling someone from the waitlist that will carefully ponder the decision for two weeks and then turn it down just increases suffering and delays an offer to someone who will accept. This is why I allow for a heads up from those who have gotten into a "better" school, not because we judge them to be better.

We never trust the judgement of other schools. I've seen some awful candidates get into very fine schools.

That is a good policy to have. I interviewed at another school that said don't bother writing LOIs unless you are WLed by us and got accepted by a top 10.

 

[Curioso06]

We have a waitlist. We have the facts in front of us. We will pick the best candidate that is likely to come.
Calling someone from the waitlist that will carefully ponder the decision for two weeks and then turn it down just increases suffering and delays an offer to someone who will accept. This is why I allow for a heads up from those who have gotten into a better school, not because we judge them to be better.

That makes sense - thank you for that.

Are there candidates who are waitlisted due to extenuating circumstances (e.g., family, etc.) that would make the adcom doubt whether or not the candidate would attend their institution but where a LOIntent would help to clarify their intent in matriculating should they be accepted? E.g., maybe a candidate is waitlisted because s/he revealed some personal factors in his/her application or interview that may cause the adcom to believe s/he may not attend but in reality would actually like to attend. Would this type of candidate be advised to send a letter of intent? If this might be the case, should the candidate contact the school to ask whether a letter of intent in this case would actually be helpful?

 

[gyngyn]

That makes sense - thank you for that.

Are there candidates who are waitlisted due to extenuating circumstances (e.g., family, etc.) that would make the adcom doubt whether or not the candidate would attend their institution but where a LOIntent would help to clarify their intent in matriculating should they be accepted? E.g., maybe a candidate is waitlisted because s/he revealed some personal factors in his/her application or interview that may cause the adcom to believe s/he may not attend but in reality would actually like to attend. Would this type of candidate be advised to send a letter of intent? If this might be the case, should the candidate contact the school to ask whether a letter of intent in this case would actually be helpful?

Once we have committed to an interview it would be foolish to wailist an excellent candidate for any reason (except over-enrollment!).

 

[Psai]

Bribing to get into school. Is this even America? lol

Harvard doesn't have a 36 billion dollar endowment from amazing financial acumen alone

 

[Curioso06]

Once we have committed to an interview it would be foolish to wailist an excellent candidate for any reason (except over-enrollment!).

I'll try to be more specific here. Have you had a pair of candidates who were married or engaged, who were both interviewed and subsequently waitlisted? Aside from the typical case (i.e., maybe they were good but not good enough for acceptance), for what other reason would both candidates be waitlisted? I imagine this particular situation makes these cases a little more complicated?

 

[Officer Farva]

Harvard doesn't have a 36 billion dollar endowment from amazing financial acumen alone

People always **** on greed in the financial sector, but I think the educational sector is way more corrupt.

 

[pb34]

Assuming you are waitlisted at a school that specifically mentions that you may send a letter reaffirming your interest at said school. Would it be best to wait until around May for waitlist movement to start or does it not really matter when that letter is sent?

 

[gyngyn]

I'll try to be more specific here. Have you had a pair of candidates who were married or engaged, who were both interviewed and subsequently waitlisted? Aside from the typical case (i.e., maybe they were good but not good enough for acceptance), for what other reason would both candidates be waitlisted? I imagine this particular situation makes these cases a little more complicated?

They are waitlisted because they weren't quite as compelling as the accepted applicants. There really aren't any other reasons. If neither member of a couple was acceptable they would both be waitlisted. If one was acceptable, she would be accepted without the partner.

 

[gyngyn]

Assuming you are waitlisted at a school that specifically mentions that you may send a letter reaffirming your interest at said school. Would it be best to wait until around May for waitlist movement to start or does it not really matter when that letter is sent?

Timing is key. A reasonable person might consider that the passage of time has changed the sender's intentions. The best timing is right when waitlist movement is happening. Of course, none of this matters if you aren't already very near the top of the list.

 

[Lannister]

Assuming you are waitlisted at a school that specifically mentions that you may send a letter reaffirming your interest at said school. Would it be best to wait until around May for waitlist movement to start or does it not really matter when that letter is sent?

I'm in a similar situation. I decided to send one in a week or so ago, and I'm also going to send another one in if I make it onto the waitlist, which is formed in April. They said they want to hear from us, so I'm going to take advantage of that and make sure they don't forget me 😛

 

[Curioso06]

They are waitlisted because they weren't quite as compelling as the accepted applicants. There really aren't any other reasons. If neither member of a couple was acceptable they would both be waitlisted. If one was acceptable, she would be accepted without the partner.

Adcoms would not consider the possibility that if one were accepted and the other were waitlisted, that they would likely matriculate elsewhere, assuming they are both admitted to another institution? It would seem to me that in the case where one would be admitted and the other waitlisted, they would rather waitlist both, as to protect their yield.

Are you saying that med schools do not factor in marital status at all, whether in the interview or acceptance stages?

I realize the simple answer would be that "if you're not competitive for acceptance, than you'd be waitlisted" but as in much else in life and in this world, the truth is more complex. I have a hard time believing that they do not consider marital status at all when handing out acceptances.

 

[Officer Farva]

Adcoms would not consider the possibility that if one were accepted and the other were waitlisted, that they would likely matriculate elsewhere, assuming they are both admitted to another institution? It would seem to me that in the case where one would be admitted and the other waitlisted, they would rather waitlist both, as to protect their yield.

Are you saying that med schools do not factor in marital status at all, whether in the interview or acceptance stages?

I realize the simple answer would be that "if you're not competitive for acceptance, than you'd be waitlisted" but as in much else in life and in this world, the truth is more complex. I have a hard time believing that they do not consider marital status at all when handing out acceptances.

Man, my heart goes out to the couples applying together, that sounds rough.

 

[gyngyn]

Adcoms would not consider the possibility that if one were accepted and the other were waitlisted, that they would likely matriculate elsewhere, assuming they are both admitted to another institution? It would seem to me that in the case where one would be admitted and the other waitlisted, they would rather waitlist both, as to protect their yield.

Are you saying that med schools do not factor in marital status at all, whether in the interview or acceptance stages?

I realize the simple answer would be that "if you're not competitive for acceptance, than you'd be waitlisted" but as in much else in life and in this world, the truth is more complex. I have a hard time believing that they do not consider marital status at all when handing out acceptances.

At my school we often are faced with couples, twins, triplets, you name it. Once we decide to interview (and we often don't interview both or all three), each candidate is viewed as a separate entity. I have never heard "yield" discussed at my school, ever.

 

[Curioso06]

At my school we often are faced with couples, twins, triplets, you name it. Once we decide to interview (and we often don't interview both or all three), each candidate is viewed as a separate entity. I have never heard "yield" discussed at my school, ever.

The reason why I ask is because I have heard of examples of couples getting waitlisted and eventually learned that they were waitlisted because the dean/adcom were unsure if they would attend if accepted. I.e., if only one of them is accepted, there's a low chance that s/he would matriculate. If both are accepted, they might both matriculate or they both might not.

In any case, there would essentially be 2 seats on the line, not just one. In principle, I agree that each candidate should be evaluated more or less individually but there are pragmatic elements at play that could doubly impede the admissions process.

 

[gyngyn]

The reason why I ask is because I have heard of examples of couples getting waitlisted and eventually learned that they were waitlisted because the dean/adcom were unsure if they would attend if accepted. I.e., if only one of them is accepted, there's a low chance that s/he would matriculate. If both are accepted, they might both matriculate or they both might not.

In any case, there would essentially be 2 seats on the line, not just one. In principle, I agree that each candidate should be evaluated more or less individually but there are pragmatic elements at play that could doubly impede the admissions process.

One hears a lot of things. It's hard to know is any of it is true. There is a natural tendency to try to make sense out of what happens to us, though.