Letter of Rec - Difficult Situation

[cliffordhj]

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I need to ask one of my science professors for a letter of recommendation (summer internship), and due to last semesters grades this puts me in a difficult position. Is it completely hopeless to ask a professor, whose class you received a C in, to write you a letter? I received a C in genetics and a B in the lab (yes it was a horrible semester, thats not the worst of it, please don't judge me :] ). Although i get along very well with her/ good relationship, I feel that she would laugh in my face if I asked. My other option would be to ask a professor/my advisor whose class I had in the beginning of last year, and got a B+ in, for a letter. However she IS my advisor, and sees these grades, and probably thinks I'm hopeless too.

WWYD in my situation?

I could wait until after my first test (ace it) and then ask said professor, but the soonest letter is due in Feb. and I obviously can't wait much longer to ask.

 

[bonaparte]

I would just go to her office hours and ask! It won't do any harm and a professor is not going to laugh in your face, haha.

Do you know how pointless it would be if professors only wrote letters for A students? The importance of having these letters is to see an applicant as more than just a number and professors know this. If you are hard working and dedicated, I see no reason why the professor, whom you have a good relationship with, would not want to write you a letter. 🙂

 

[LetItSnow]

WWYD in my situation?

Somebody once pointed out to me the key to asking for these kinds of letters: Don't just ask if they're willing to write one, ask if they're willing to write a very supportive, positive letter.

... and in your situation or any other, that's exactly what I'd do.

 

[bbeventer]

I would just go to her office hours and ask! It won't do any harm and a professor is not going to laugh in your face, haha.

Do you know how pointless it would be if professors only wrote letters for A students? The importance of having these letters is to see an applicant as more than just a number and professors know this. If you are hard working and dedicated, I see no reason why the professor, whom you have a good relationship with, would not want to write you a letter. 🙂

I have to agree. It never hurts to ask, if she agree she won't write you a bad letter, that would be just evil 😀

 

[squibby]

I got a C both semesters in O-Chem, but that professor actually offered to me to write a letter. He saw that I was a good student despite the grade I earned in his class, so he wanted to attest to that.

You say you have a good relationship with her, so I think it depends on whether there is a good reason you got a lower grade than you hoped for, if she is aware of that reason, and sees that you were still putting in an effort.

I would absolutely disagree that she will definitely write you a good letter if she agrees to write one.

 

[EllieGirl89]

I would absolutely disagree that she will definitely write you a good letter if she agrees to write one.

This.

During admissions presentations at OSU, we were always told that if you're asking somebody for a LOR, to present the question like "Do you think you know me well enough to write me a positive letter of recommendation for veterinary school?" That way, even though you're putting them on the spot, they have an "out." If they don't want to write you a letter, then they can just say "You know what, I'm flattered but I honestly don't think I know you well enough."

Otherwise, if you say "Will you write me a letter of recommendation," if they're uncomfortable saying no but don't REALLY want to write you one, they will do it but not write a POSITIVE one. Because remember, letter of recommendation doesn't have to mean a letter of recommendation TO let you into vet school-it could mean a letter of recommendation NOT TO let you into vet school. The dean of admssions here at OSU said that she HAS seem LORs that say, basically, "Do NOT let this person into vet school."

So just because someone agrees to write you a letter doesn't mean it will be a good one-be absolutely clear about what you want.

 

[New Foundland]

This works a lot better if you have time to work with:
I would offer to do some volunteer work in the prof's lab.
That way
a) they get the chance to know you better personally
b) you get the chance to prove to them that you are academically capable at X
c) the fact that you offer to volunteer will show them motivation and enthusiasm

With a looming deadline, you could still try this, try to get in as much face-time with them as possible (even if its just discussing the possibility of some sort of future volunteer work), and then a couple days later tell them that you have a looming deadline and could really benefit from an extra academic LOR.


Also, for those who mentioned negative LOR's.. I wouldn't worry about this sort of thing.. These cases are definitely quite rare. However, a prof will not embellish and exaggerate the extent to which they know you.. So while negative LOR's are likely quite rare, brief and lacking LOR's are likely quite common.

 

[Cautionary Tail]

When I first went back to school, I had no idea how to study, and I ended up getting a C+ in one of my science courses. Highest lab grade in the class, lowest lecture grade of anyone that didn't drop. (Yay, kinesthetic learners! )

Anyway, I ended up having this professor three times (I got A's the other two). When it came time to ask for recommendations, I knew that this particular professor knew me better than any of my others, and would be in the best position to write something genuine. There were some other options (who had never seen me struggle), but both my advisor and I felt that she was my best bet.

I was petrified of asking her, but as it turned out, she seemed really enthused about it, and she's been the evaluator that seems to have taken the most interest in whether or not the schools I've applied to are interested. She's also offered to send recommendations to any additional schools I might want to apply to if this cycle doesn't pan out.

If you think that this professor is in the best position to recommend you, I'd ask them if they are comfortable writing you a positive letter of recommendation. The worst they can do is say no. 👍

ETA- if the earliest letter is due in February, I'd ask ASAP to ensure that they have enough time to write it. I wouldn't wait at this point.

 

[that redhead]

It depends who you feel knows you best. Your advisor may be able to give a more "big picture" perspective of you as an applicant.

 

[kaydubs]

From my experience with LOR's: I turned in 4 for my VMCAS app. 1 from a SA vet & 3 from profs. 2 were bio & 1 was phil. I'd go for someone who would write you a full LOR. It will *hopefully* be positive but definitely go with someone who won't be likely to skimp on content &length. 1 prof I didn't ask for a LOR cause she had written so many before but she ended up submitting one cause she asked me if I'd want one. (I felt really nice about that).


Best of luck with it, cliffordhj! I hope it goes well. It never hurts to ask someone. The worst a prof (or anyone) will do is say no. And then you move on 👍

 

[Vet Engineer]

The dean of admssions here at OSU said that she HAS seem LORs that say, basically, "Do NOT let this person into vet school."

I thought this was illegal or at least greatly frowned upon. There's a reason it's called a letter of RECOMMENDATION. I have been told by various professors and advisors that if someone doesn't feel he/she can write a good letter then he/she is obligated to say so. Perhaps it's more of a suggestion than a rule. Regardless, when I become a vet, if someone asks me to write a LOR and I don't think I have anything nice to say, I will say so. I know I would prefer it that way if the roles were reversed.

 

[LetItSnow]

I thought this was illegal or at least greatly frowned upon. There's a reason it's called a letter of RECOMMENDATION.

Except it's not called that. Go look at VMCAS again: they're called "evaluations." People just tend to use the term "letter of recommendation" because we all sort of think of it that way, but that's not what they really are.

The format that the evaluator will see (one of mine showed me) is a few pages of the typical "rate this person from least qualified to most qualified" kind of stuff, followed by an essay box.

 

[Chinola]

The dean of admssions here at OSU said that she HAS seem LORs that say, basically, "Do NOT let this person into vet school."

That seems really strange. When a friend of mine was applying to PhD programs one of her evaluators didn't want to submit the letter to 10 schools himself so he asked her to do the submitting for him. She said that on every school's eLOR page it specifically stated that the evaluator was not allowed to write a bad recommendation letter.

 

[EllieGirl89]

That seems really strange. When a friend of mine was applying to PhD programs one of her evaluators didn't want to submit the letter to 10 schools himself so he asked her to do the submitting for him. She said that on every school's eLOR page it specifically stated that the evaluator was not allowed to write a bad recommendation letter.

Now THAT seems strange to me. What's the point of an evaluation letter (as it truly is called, like LetItSnow pointed out) if it can only be positive? I mean, if they are all going to be sunshine and roses wouldn't they just cancel each other out? As in, if all the applicants had amazing evaluations, they wouldn't be of any use to distinguish one applicant from another. If a vet doesn't think a person who asks them for a letter is a good candidate for veterinary school, why wouldn't the veterinary school want to know that?

Again, like LetItSnow mentioned, on the evaluator page they have the option of rating you in a number of areas from poor to excellent, so it's definitely not just for positive recommendations.

 

[New Foundland]

If a vet doesn't think a person who asks them for a letter is a good candidate for veterinary school, why wouldn't the veterinary school want to know that

I think the fact that the applicant has the power to select who they want LORs from is a key factor..
The difference between two applicants may appear to be that one applicant has a LOR from somebody who doesn't recommend them positively.. But in reality, who's to say that both applicants didn't work with somebody who looks upon them poorly?
The person without any negative LOR's may have just done the job of screening out whichever vet they think doesn't like them..

So would you as a school really want to punish people for not knowing that a vet doesn't think positively of them? (while ignoring the fact that other applicants may have worked with vets who deplore them equally, but those applicants have chosen not to get an LOR from them)

 

[Chinola]

Now THAT seems strange to me. What's the point of an evaluation letter (as it truly is called, like LetItSnow pointed out) if it can only be positive? I mean, if they are all going to be sunshine and roses wouldn't they just cancel each other out? As in, if all the applicants had amazing evaluations, they wouldn't be of any use to distinguish one applicant from another. If a vet doesn't think a person who asks them for a letter is a good candidate for veterinary school, why wouldn't the veterinary school want to know that?

Again, like LetItSnow mentioned, on the evaluator page they have the option of rating you in a number of areas from poor to excellent, so it's definitely not just for positive recommendations.

I think the difference is a letter that says "Jane Doe was a student of mine in the Fall of 2009. She received a B in this course and I do not recall any problems that I had with her. I recommend her to your program." and one that actually talks about the person and how amazing they are. I worked for the chem lab coordinator at my school and he was constantly being asked for recommendation letters from students. The problem is he didn't deal directly with any students because TAs (undergrad and grad) taught the courses. So he would tell the students he'd write them a letter but that he couldn't put any information in there other than their grade. That's still a "positive" letter, just not an amazing one.

 

[rosyreef]

[EllieGirl89] "...present the question like "Do you think you know me well enough to write me a positive letter of recommendation for veterinary school?" That way, even though you're putting them on the spot, they have an "out." If they don't want to write you a letter, then they can just say "You know what, I'm flattered but I honestly don't think I know you well enough."

Definitely true. I know a couple of people who have asked for recommendations that ended up being detrimental, either because they made a point to detail bad aspects of the student or they were simply careless and copied an old letter and sent it in with someone else's name within it. The person writing you a recommendation should be interested in supporting you and your application, so it's a good idea to give them a way out in case they are uncomfortable.

 

[that redhead]

I think the difference is a letter that says "Jane Doe was a student of mine in the Fall of 2009. She received a B in this course and I do not recall any problems that I had with her. I recommend her to your program." and one that actually talks about the person and how amazing they are. I worked for the chem lab coordinator at my school and he was constantly being asked for recommendation letters from students. The problem is he didn't deal directly with any students because TAs (undergrad and grad) taught the courses. So he would tell the students he'd write them a letter but that he couldn't put any information in there other than their grade. That's still a "positive" letter, just not an amazing one.

This is what I was going to say. There is a difference between a positive eLOR and a stellar eLOR. Sure, they may all be sunshine and roses but some of them will also be unicorns and mint chocolate chip ice cream and ponies and puppies! 😉 I think that part of the whole eLOR thing is to see which students have really invested themselves in their communities (academic, animal-based, whatever) and didn't just run into the nearest clinic and scoop some poop for a day or didn't just make passing grades in their tough courses. (Disclaimer: I'm not saying those with low experience hours are bad, or those with less than a 4.0 are bad.)

 

[RemyHou]

I'm having trouble trying to contact a possible LOR. So far I've emailed the professor, but I haven't received a reply yet for the past couple of days. Should I go to their office, or pass and ask a different professor?

 

[StartingoverVet]

I'm having trouble trying to contact a possible LOR. So far I've emailed the professor, but I haven't received a reply yet for the past couple of days. Should I go to their office, or pass and ask a different professor?

What do you have to lose from going to office? Nothing. Go.
E-mails are easy to lose track of, even if well meaning. A face-to-face visit is always best anyway.

 

[pooter]

What SOV said. People are weird about responding to emails sometimes. Ask in person and you'll know one way or the other.