letter to state medical boards/licensing

[azskeptic]

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TO: State Medical Boards/Medical license testing
staffs
FROM:Consumer Advocate
www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

date: 2-9-04

As one who has been looking at the issue of foreign
medical schools and their level of educations in terms
of how equivalent they are to US medical schools, I am
concerned that there are some medical schools offshore
that have found 'loopholes' to the US and Canadian
systems and are promising students that they can
maintain their full time day jobs as
chiropractors/podiatrists/dentists/nurses and attend
the basic science portion of their medical educations
virtually via internet correspondence.

I have written extensively about this to medical
boards, not only in the US but abroad also. Some
medical boards have studied the issue and have chosen
to ban grads from these 'internet virtual medical
schools' but some haven't dealt with the issue and
have actually issued some residents 'licenses' to do
residencies, even after reading newspaper articles
saying that the students have spent as little as 3
months at a medical school physically

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2003/06/01/news/top_news/f11bbdd6f00526d286256d38000c8c62.txt


I haven't found ANY of the graduates of these schools
licensed yet but the potential is there.

My website at
http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com shows
the websites of these 'virtual' schools where your
$20,000 check is your admission requirement; not your
MCAT scores.

But the resulting problems of these schools is being
seen in consumer fraud already. For instance there are
dentists who are now listing themselves as DDS/MD's
with no intention (or chance) of getting licensed as
MD's but their potential patients,getting oral surgery
think they are getting additional protection by going
to someone with the dual degrees. There are 'medical
students' who have studied on the internet, now doing
clinicals in hospitals,unbeknowst to patients and
potentially putting patients at risk.

The question is complex: Who will evaluate these
medical schools and judge which offshore schools are
equivalent and which ones are not? Many states lack
the budget to send evaluators to the schools in the
Carribean, Mexico,etc. Can the organizations that
'approve' graduates to take licensing exams look into
the schools instead of accepting carte blanche any
school that is WHO approved? Can we require that
offshore schools,like US schools, actually have
inspections and supervision by the local country's
educational/health department staffs? Should schools
not located in the country of their WHO
recognition,such as some in England (St.
Christophers/Kigezi)for instance, grads be accepted
for testing and licensing in our countries? How can a
medical school that is 6000 miles from the agencies
who are supposed to supervise it be seen as equivalent
to traditional medical schools? It makes sense that
perhaps the Federation of State Medical Boards get
involved or the US govt. but so far no one has stepped
up to take responsibility. A few states have done
admirable jobs,such as
Indiana/California/Alabama/Pennsylvania,etc. in
disapproving some of the questionable schools but
there is no uniformity.

I urge your industry, the last protective device for
we consumers, to put together a study group to fix
this problem. I would like to read a lot less sad
ending stories such as recently written by a newspaper
at:


http://www.ctnow.com/news/health/hc...,2898864.story?coll=hc-big-headlines-breaking



We consumers are depending on you to protect us.

Sincerely:

 

[Jasminegab]

Doctor's island education rejected by some states

By META HEMENWAY-FORBES, Courier Staff Writer

WATERLOO - Dr. Gregory Neyman is by all accounts an overachiever.

As a medical student, he scored exceptionally well on the United States Medical Licensing Examination, passing one part of the test most students don't even attempt until after graduation.

Where is the harm in this? In fact shouldn't this person be commended? Perhaps mocked as a fake wanna be MD?

Honored as medical student of the year at his January graduation, the new doctor eagerly anticipates the start of his residency training July 1 at Northeast Iowa Family Practice Center.

Shame on Iowa for allowing such a fraud to go into residency. He will cause great harm and perhaps lame an unsuspecting person seeking his medical care. After all, wasn't he a quack from the beginning being a Chiropractor, right?

Pat Park says,

"The American Association of International Medical Graduates lists the Antigua institution as one of 10 medical schools with "multiple, serious deficiencies."



Is this what the CA board of Medicine uses to approve a medical school? Isn't this same organization listed by another Medical Board as being a fraud itself? This is starting to look real sad.

Dr. Ellen Sakornbut, residency program director at Northeast Iowa Family Practice, defends Neyman's choice.

"There was concern, but at this time there are many things being done in the area of basic science training," she said.

"There are a number of med schools where students work without sitting in a classroom.

The point is do they master the curriculum? In the United States we would tend to be more comfortable with people sitting in a classroom, yet we have not found those who don't are less prepared to take exams."



Where is the argument here? Where is CA and other states who follow after CA list of approved/Banned schools determining their information that schools who allow students to do basic science online are graduating incompetent physicians? Not everyone stands behind CA nor other states who ban these schools. Read this from the Iowa Medical Board.....

Kent Nebel, legal affairs director for the Iowa Board of Medical Examiners, said the issue is relatively new.

Distance learning and Internet curriculums have popped up in the past few years, and there is no data to support Park's and others' claims offshore schools like UHSA aren't producing quality physicians.

"Even scholars have not reviewed whether this (distance and Internet curriculum) is an appropriate form of study and what the outcomes are," Nebel said.



So what's your point azskeptic? What are you determining your information on? You call these schools fraud but aren't you passing false information on to the public? Isn't this fraud? What's sad, is that people are out there who agree with you and have absolutely no scientific data to back up what they say. Kind of like saying Gay marriage is sinful and should be banned.

Although Neyman did basic medical school coursework over the Internet, his clinical rotations all took place in the United States under the watchful eyes of board-certified physicians. His residency will take place under the same scrutiny.

So where was his advanced placement at? If he recieved advance placement, he should not have taken any basic science at all and went right into medical school as a 3rd year student. From what I'm reading, he was able to place into a online program which a typical entering student would not have been allowed. My school does the same thing. One cannot enter into the internet portion of the program unless one has extensive science background. Where is the wrong in this? Student's do this all year long in Graduate school and undergraduate school where they may test into a higher level of english without having to take english 101. If they do well on the english exam, they get to move right into english 102. They still have to take english just as everyone else who enters the school. They don't skip over it.

These individuals are going into very structured, educational programs where they will be monitored very closely," Nebel said. "That's what a residency program is intended for. Whether they're U.S.- or foreign-trained, that process will determine whether they are in a position to practice medicine beyond a residency program."
It is my hope that people stand up against people like this that are fighting to pass laws and start moments based on opinions only. Everyone is entitled to their opinoin. Yet, when people start to force their opinion on others, it a problem. I don't believe that CA or the other states have seen the last of this issue. As more IMG's stand up and fight this false information, the laws will slowly change. Then people such as this consumer advocate will be able to base their information on factual information rather than on what they believe is right or wrong. If you don't get anything else from this post, I ask each reader to look into the facts. Find out where people's information are coming from and never just take what someone says as being fact.

 

[azskeptic]

1. us medical schools don't give advanced credit for chiropractic or other types of education which are not equivalent. Read about DC schools level of education and staff at www.quackwatch.com

2. foreign med schools,under state law, must meet the same standards as US medical schools. If they don't there are problems.

3. Taking short cuts is dynamite for med students anywhere before and after med school.

check it for yourself..call your local medical board and ask them about internet med schools and distance learning. ask them about requirements for length of time in a medical school and residency at the location of the school. agreed...don't trust anyone on issues this important

az skeptic

 

[BackTalk]

1. us medical schools don't give advanced credit for chiropractic or other types of education which are not equivalent. Read about DC schools level of education and staff at www.quackwatch.com

There are some really good chiropractic school's out there that have equivalent courses, and in my opinion, some courses that are superior to those in medical school. I will agree that some chiropractic schools have courses that are not equivalent or even close to being equivalent to medical school. I really do not know what the exact reason is that most if not all medical schools do not accept credits from private institutions. I would assume it has to do with accreditation.

Just remember that some medical schools do not accept credits earned in dental, podiatry, optometry and some osteopath schools either.

Although quack watch has some good material, it is totally biased. Therefore I wouldn't use it for my only source of chiropractic information.

 

[Jasminegab]

Originally posted by azskeptic
1. us medical schools don't give advanced credit for chiropractic or other types of education which are not equivalent. Read about DC schools level of education and staff at www.quackwatch.com

2. foreign med schools,under state law, must meet the same standards as US medical schools. If they don't there are problems.

3. Taking short cuts is dynamite for med students anywhere before and after med school.

check it for yourself..call your local medical board and ask them about internet med schools and distance learning. ask them about requirements for length of time in a medical school and residency at the location of the school. agreed...don't trust anyone on issues this important

az skeptic

😕 www.quackwatch.com is a credible source of information now?

Again, why not post credible information rather than what you feel someone else feels is right or wrong. Even on your website there is information that is pure speculation which you pass on to others as being reliable information and it's not.

One would think that a consumer advocate would leave their own personal bias at home when reporting for work. However, you have failed to do this. You quote on documents you don't fully understand rather than doing what an investigative reporter would do which is to go out and find the truth behind the issue.
For example, you list St. Luke school of medicine as a scam school since Dr. Dolphin quotes himself graduating from his own school. At first that would seem like a bogus issue. However, if you did a little more research or just called Dr. Dolphin you would have learned that Dr. Dolphin did not graduate from his own school and is licensed to practice medicine in Africa. If it is true what you claim and is true that he graduated from his own school, how could be a licensed physician. Did he teach himself medicine and then go take the Africa licensing board exams? Rather then get into a heated debate with you on this issue, I rather just point out how you mislead other into thinking the information you provide is factual when in fact it is not.

As far as medical boards are concerned. Your right, we do need to contact that state in which one wants to practice medicine. However, just because one state get a group of other states to fellow suit behind false information does not mean that the school which this one state list is in fact a fraud school.

Again my advice to any IMG, call your state board and you be the judge as to if you want to move on or stay within that state. I'm going into medicine because medicine is my calling and I can't see myself doing nothing else but helping someone who's health is not in the best shape. Not because I want money or feel like I can be the next multi-millioniar surgeon. I'll go where I have to go to practice medicine even if that means moving out of my home state or country. Yet, thank God that not all state medical boards believe the same thing that CA believe's. At least I know that when I graduate, I can go to Iowa if all else fails.

 

[azskeptic]

easy way to figure out if St. Luke is for you.

1. Any students in residencies yet?
2. Call one of the 14 naturopathic state boards and ask them about licensing? NO foreign naturopathic school is approved and there currently is no application pending.
3. If you are considering their distance program check its legalities with the state you are interested in.
4. Ask St. Luke for referrals of students who are in the Liberia school...it is sort of a dangerous place...are there any Americans actually in it?

Good luck.

az skeptic (who isn't the reason St. Luke is a marginal school in his and other persons opinions)

 

[Jasminegab]

Rather than spend my time arguing with someone who knows nothing about St. Luke University, shcool of medicine, I'll just end my post here. But before I do so, let me say this. I'm well aware of the negative comments which Spartan University has drawn from you and other who feel it produces incompetent physicians based on it's curriculum. Again, I point out to you that no where is there evidence that agrees with you or the boards who continue to say that these physicians are lacking compared to US medical school graduates. Thus there are many state which Spartan graduates can become licensed in.

You provide me with factual information that prove SLUSOM is a fruad, and I'll change my mind. So far, based on what I have found out about the SLUSOM, it's a good school. It's new, but it is growing with leaps and bounds. It is making a good stance in Africa and providing an execellent way of education. This is what's important to me, the Quality of my education so that when I become a phsyician, I'll have a solid foundation. It is for this reason alone that I have choosen to accept my acceptance from SLUSOM.

As far as Naturopathic Physicians are concerned, there are only four schools in the world which claim to be the "REAL" Naturopathic Medical schools. Think about that, 4 school in the world when Naturopathy has been around for over 1000 years. Who are these schools accredited by? If you don't know by now it's CNME. Do your research on this CNME. This very organization was disproved by the board of education in the US as an accrediting agency up until the early part of this year. Which meant that the 4 "REAL" Naturopathic medical schools claiming to be accredited was meaningless. The 4 "REAL" schools accreditation didn't mean anything and couldn't hold a glass of water in court. However, despite what the US department of education ruled, CNME always took the stance that only those school approved by them are worthy of being Licensed in the US states which require licensing all other school are "Disapproved Schools and Fake." Where have we seen this happen before?

Talk about bogus. You mean to tell me that after a 1000yrs and many schools that only 4 schools are real even when the US department of education rules that CNME is not a reliable crediting agency until this year? Our medical thoughts developed the same way. Exception, the US accepted that fact that it dosen't have the only true Medical schools in the world. Even within this exception is an exception that is now beginning to draw attention which is that the US is trying to force every medical school in the world to have the same requirements and curriculums as the US medical schools to cut down on incoming IMG's. Never mind the Quality of the education, we can careless about the Quality. We only care about if it matches of thought. If it doesn't match our way of thought, then it can't be a good school that produces competent physicians. Thus, CA's and the few other state boards list of approved and disapproved medical schools.

Now, I will not go into details what SLUSOM is working towards not only with the medical boards but also the Naturopathic Medical boards as well. Again, give me the facts that these "REAL" schools are any better than other 4yr medical schools and I'll change my mind (this includes all school that the US boards have begun to shut out do to it curriculum). In case you haven't known, SGI, a division of SLUSOM, is a 4yr Naturopathic Medical School. No part of it's program is internet based and graduates go through the same process as the "REAL" Naturopathic Medical Schools. However, out of the 13 states that license naturopathic medical doctors, SGI is not a "REAL" school. Why? Do the research and you'll find out.

Regardless of what you feel Az skeptic or the few states that refuse to license MD's based on poor misguided hypothesis, I will not rule out any school that has the academic quality as a US medical school yet gives me the opportunity to see medicine from a non US standpoint. Show me the evidence that attending XYZ medical school will lead me to harm a patient and then I'll have something to consider. Until then, your feeling are just that, your feelings, not factual information.

 

[poly]

Originally posted by Jasminegab

...

As far as Naturopathic Physicians are concerned, there are only four schools in the world which claim to be the "REAL" Naturopathic Medical schools. Think about that, 4 school in the world when Naturopathy has been around for over 1000 years. Who are these schools accredited by? If you don't know by now it's CNME. Do your research on this CNME. This very organization was disproved by the board of education in the US as an accrediting agency up until the early part of this year. Which meant that the 4 "REAL" Naturopathic medical schools claiming to be accredited was meaningless. The 4 "REAL" schools accreditation didn't mean anything and couldn't hold a glass of water in court. However, despite what the US department of education ruled, CNME always took the stance that only those school approved by them are worthy of being Licensed in the US states which require licensing all other school are "Disapproved Schools and Fake." Where have we seen this happen before?

Talk about bogus. You mean to tell me that after a 1000yrs and many schools that only 4 schools are real even when the US department of education rules that CNME is not a reliable crediting agency until this year? Our medical thoughts developed the same way. Exception, the US accepted that fact that it dosen't have the only true Medical schools in the world. Even within this exception is an exception that is now beginning to draw attention which is that the US is trying to force every medical school in the world to have the same requirements and curriculums as the US medical schools to cut down on incoming IMG's. Never mind the Quality of the education, we can careless about the Quality. We only care about if it matches of thought. If it doesn't match our way of thought, then it can't be a good school that produces competent physicians. Thus, CA's and the few other state boards list of approved and disapproved medical schools.

...

Like it or not, CNME is the organization that naturopathic state licensing boards use to determine if your education qualifies.


As for St. Luke of Ghana and Liberia, you seem very confident that it will meet your needs -- so best wishes to you. Come back to this board in the future and let us know how successful you are.

 

[redleft123]

Soon2B MS-1 SLUSOM? Pity!

(Accepted-not sure if I'm going though) Still have a chance to make the right decision!

 

[azskeptic]

Soon2B MS-1 SLUSOM? Pity!

(Accepted-not sure if I'm going though) Still have a chance to make the right decision!

Poorly run school...see this article. az skeptic

Lexington Herald Leader (Kentucky)

November 11, 2003 Tuesday

SECTION: CITY & REGION; Pg. b1

LENGTH: 782 words

HEADLINE: Alleged impostor observed Ky. surgeries;
MAN INDICTED FOR PRACTICING MEDICINE WITHOUT LICENSE

BYLINE: By Valarie Honeycutt Spears; HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER

BODY:
Lexington's Central Baptist Hospital is tightening its procedures for allowing medical students to observe.

The move came after a medical student observing at Central Baptist was indicted in Nevada for practicing medicine without a license.

The Oct. 23 indictment of Andrew E. Michael is not connected with his work in Lexington, but the hospital is making the changes because he was observing at Central Baptist when he was indicted.

Las Vegas officials have compared Michael to the impostor immortalized in the movie Catch Me if You Can. The movie starring Leonardo DiCaprio depicts a man who successfully masqueraded as an airline pilot, a doctor and a lawyer for nearly five years.

As president of a Nevada diagnostic imaging center and a medical company, Michael practiced medicine without a license in Las Vegas between May 2001 and May 2003, a Nevada court affidavit alleges.

Michael told people that he had completed a residency in cardiothoracic surgery at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and had trained at several medical schools in various states, according to the affidavit.

Investigators, however, learned that Michael was never licensed to practice medicine in any of the states that he mentioned, the affidavit said.

Gerald J. Gardner, Nevada's chief deputy attorney general, said that evidence was also presented to a Las Vegas grand jury that, outside Kentucky, Michael purported to have a doctorate in business and had misrepresented himself as a lawyer, a commercial jet pilot, a nursing student and a Marine Corps veteran.

In Lexington, however, Central Baptist officials say they were careful to confirm that Michael was enrolled in a medical school before allowing him to observe heart surgeons.

"There's no evidence that he did anything improper" in Lexington, said Central Baptist Hospital spokeswoman Ruth Ann Childers. "We don't know that we could have done anything differently. We've never had any trouble like this in 50 years" of letting students observe.

Michael treated no patients at Central Baptist while he observed heart doctors in September and October, he did not have access to patient records and no patients were affected in any way, Childers said.

From now on, however, the hospital will only give observation privileges to students from the University of Kentucky, the University of Louisville, the Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine and those students who have personal references, Childers said.

Michael's observation privileges at Central Baptist were terminated as soon as officials learned about the indictment, Childers said.

Also, an internal investigation has been launched at St. Luke's School of Medicine of West Africa, where Childers and Gardner said Michael was enrolled.

In the school's California office, President Jerroll Dolphin declined to provide information about Michael, but he said anyone indicted on such a charge would be subject to dismissal.

"We're taking it very seriously. We're looking at our admission policies to see if maybe we are trusting people too much. We are looking into whether we possibly overlooked something," Dolphin said.

"We've been open six years and have 280 students, and we've never had a problem close to this," Dolphin said.

Childers said it is not unusual for foreign medical schools to ask physicians and hospitals across the country to allow students to observe. Michael did not have any apparent ties to Lexington before his school asked Central Baptist that he be allowed to observe.

Cardiologist Hal Skinner said Michael was assigned to him for four weeks of the observation rotation. Skinner said that in August a colleague asked him whether students from a foreign medical school could observe. Skinner said he did not have any indications of Michael's impending indictment, "but we'll only take in-state students from here on out."

Cardiovascular surgeon Dr. Robert Mitchell said that as a favor to another physician, he allowed Michael to observe him for 15 hours over four days before word of the indictment came.

Television news reports in Las Vegas and Lexington played up the Catch Me If You Can angle. As a result, many people erroneously thought Michael had been charged with a crime here, Mitchell said.

"When we let him work with us, he hadn't been indicted. Here, he was a legitimate medical student, but he was not allowed to participate in surgery other than to observe," he said.

Michael's Las Vegas attorney, William Terry, declined to comment. Michael, who pleaded not guilty, was released from jail in Las Vegas on Nov. 5 after paying a $1,000 bond, according to court records. A trial is scheduled for February.

 

[Jasminegab]

Believe or not the internet can be use to prove your point that a school is not worth while attending as azkeptic has successfully done for some time now.

Perfect example, I can prove that Ross is not worth while attending because it's allows anyone to attend who can write a check. Take a look at this: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/doctor021115.html

Now for someone who knows nothing about Ross, they would be mislead by this article to think that Ross is nothing but a dipolma mill and takes in anyone who has money.

Before I get flamed for this post, let me set the record straight. Ross is a execellent school. It has many doctors who are licensed and on the faculty of many US medical schools. They have been around since the late 70's and is very stable. I don't think for one minute that it is a dipolma mill nor out to take in anyon who can right a check. This article was used only to prove my point.


St. Luke university school of medicine is a new school. It's been around for only 5yrs but it is recognized by it's country's government and the Medical and Dental Council in Africa. Student's are able to be licensed in Ghana, Liberia or other countries such as India and the USA. 95% of it's student body is African from Ghana and liberia. SLUSOM has a student body of at least 208 and this number is growing. SLUSOM has a USLME pass rate of 80%. SLUSOM has hospital which it's affilated with in Ghana, Liberia, India and the US. I have yet to talk with any current student of SLUSOM who will agree with what azkeptic and his crew are saying about SLUSOM. They are the one that I want to hear from anyway since they know first hand how the school is run and how good the curriculum is and if it comparable to a US medical school curriculum. Same if I was interested in Ross, I want to hear from current students, past students and the faculty themselves.

Azkeptic and his crew are niether students nor have they been to Ghana or Liberia to prove what they say about SLUSOM. They have not sat down face to face with Doctor Dolphin nor have they met any of the faculty in person at SLUSOM. They do not list the positive of the Faculty such as the Professor who is a Temple medical school graduate or other reputable medical schools in the US.

What they do is use the internet to prove their point which I have shown you that anyone with common sense can do by carefully seeking out the negatives. If I wanted to prove Temple Universisty Medical school worthless, poorly run or any other negative, I can by simply doing a search on the wonderful world wide internet.

I advise any prospective student to take it from the horses mouth. Go to the students who are attending, call the faculty and speak with them, call the medical boards to see if you can become licensed in that state with a degree from the school, seek out graduates and talk with them and then take the advise of people who say schools are worthless or run by shady people and compare that to what you already know.

Lastly, My undecisiveness to attend SLUSOM has nothing to do with SLUSOM. It has to due with Financial situation which I'm currently working out. Thus my signature "I don't know if I'm going or not." So, there's no need to pity me because as soon as I get the financial aid, I'm off to Ghana.

 

[azskeptic]

My problem with St Luke is the credentials of the faculty:

1. a VP with a diploma mill bought degree
2. the board awarded itself MD degrees apparently upon opening...a curious thing.
3. medical residents listed as faculty

Going to a medical school like St. Luke is like buying a Yugo...you may get it to run but you are starting with a disadvantage if your goal is to drive it very far.

Reference 'my' guys I don't know who the other folks are since I've not met them but there are many people who have researched the questionable credentials coming out of these type of schools. Show me 10 people who've been licensed in the US. As you are probably aware they claim to provide naturopathic medical training but it isn't one that can be licensed in states with naturopathic boards like Az/Washington/Oregon...the grads would have to go to Bingham County Idaho or NC that will license correspondence school grads. Reference medical degree licensing if you are a residential student perhaps you have a chance but why spend the money when you can go to a recognized school? just curious......

if you do a websearch you can find lots of folks buying questionable credentials as naturopaths/etc. shameful

 

[azskeptic]

http://www.drfaria.com/degrees.html

http://www.gilbertchiroclinic.com/aboutus.htm

You find St. Luke's degrees are illegal in Oregon

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

 

[azskeptic]

one more thing........I sympathize with your problems in funding....have you surveyed all of the med schools to see which ones can get you Staffords and other types loans and the total costs?

 

[poly]

[...]
... I have yet to talk with any current student of SLUSOM who will agree with what azkeptic and his crew are saying about SLUSOM. They are the one that I want to hear from anyway since they know first hand how the school is run and how good the curriculum is and if it comparable to a US medical school curriculum. Same if I was interested in Ross, I want to hear from current students, past students and the faculty themselves.

Azkeptic and his crew are niether students nor have they been to Ghana or Liberia to prove what they say about SLUSOM. They have not sat down face to face with Doctor Dolphin nor have they met any of the faculty in person at SLUSOM. They do not list the positive of the Faculty such as the Professor who is a Temple medical school graduate or other reputable medical schools in the US.

[...]

So, 2 points:

1. How would SLUSOM students know if their school curriculum is comparable to US med schools when they never attended / graduated from an US med school? If they did, why would they then attend SLUSOM?

2. Have you been to Ghana, Liberia? Have you sat down with Dolphin? Have you met any of the faculties?

 

[Jasminegab]

You know your right and you just have shown me why going to any off-shore/caribbean school is risk that I do not want to take.

You say don't take the risk of going to an overseas medical school who's faculty come from a school you feel is shady and who's faculty degree's that are questionable, Well, here what you should be saying:

Don't take the risk of going to a medical that will limit your ability in getting licensed in this country as well as getting into a residency spot of your choice. That includes the big 3 schools.

I'm already making plans to forget about going to an off-shore/caribbean medical school, it's too risky. If it take me 10yrs to get into a US medical school it will not be a waste and at least I can stay away from discussion like this.

I done with this thread, these kinds of debates and personaly the whole issue of going off-shore to medical school. I rather spend my time here in the US building my resume and doing what it take to get into a US medical school where I know I'll be able to be licensed in all 50 states, not have to worry about the boards restricting me due to the fact i'm a USIMG and not have a stigma attached to my name tag.

My advise to anyone wanting to go off-shore:

Don't take the risk of going to a medical that will limit your ability in getting licensed in this country as well as getting into a residency spot of your choice. That includes the big 3 schools.

 

[azskeptic]

The big 3 (or perhaps 4) are not a risk...it is the internet correspondence schools and the schools not working in the country of their charters and schools with poor faculty that are risks.

obviously if you can get into a US MD or DO school you'll be better off but many people don't have that luxury and must go offshore. But risking $200,000 worth of debt for a school that has its staff buying $150 diplomas from Sra Lanka isn't a smart move.

 

[ULTRON]

Wrong. Tulane University's School of Medicine gives advancement to dentists and DOs. And I don't see anything wrong with online education. Most medical students in the US study through pdfs and ppts, and so do students at UHSA. The only difference is that in online education, you don’t have a professor rereading the entire ppt file in a classroom. Furthermore, the labs are held yearly on the island.

Most students at UHSA are highly experienced PAs, dentists, chiros, pharmacists, etc., who are much smarter and experienced than traditional medical students. In some cases, they’re more knowledgeable than newly licenced MDs. There are tons of licensed UHSA graduates across the US. Another problem is you’re simply exaggerating what you’re saying. For example, UHSA is banned only from a handful of states (5-6 in all out of 50), so I don’t see the point of “call all the boards.”

ULTRON

1. us medical schools don't give advanced credit for chiropractic or other types of education which are not equivalent. Read about DC schools level of education and staff at www.quackwatch.com

2. foreign med schools,under state law, must meet the same standards as US medical schools. If they don't there are problems.

3. Taking short cuts is dynamite for med students anywhere before and after med school.

check it for yourself..call your local medical board and ask them about internet med schools and distance learning. ask them about requirements for length of time in a medical school and residency at the location of the school. agreed...don't trust anyone on issues this important

az skeptic

 

[ULTRON]

Nice article but pointless. Michael would have committed fraud regardless of where he attended medical school. Whether you attend medical schools at Harvard or Pakistan, if you don't have a licence, you're committing a felone. So I don't see the point of bashing one's medical school.

ULTRON

Poorly run school...see this article. az skeptic

Lexington Herald Leader (Kentucky)

November 11, 2003 Tuesday

SECTION: CITY & REGION; Pg. b1

LENGTH: 782 words

HEADLINE: Alleged impostor observed Ky. surgeries;
MAN INDICTED FOR PRACTICING MEDICINE WITHOUT LICENSE

BYLINE: By Valarie Honeycutt Spears; HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER

BODY:
Lexington's Central Baptist Hospital is tightening its procedures for allowing medical students to observe.

The move came after a medical student observing at Central Baptist was indicted in Nevada for practicing medicine without a license.

The Oct. 23 indictment of Andrew E. Michael is not connected with his work in Lexington, but the hospital is making the changes because he was observing at Central Baptist when he was indicted.

Las Vegas officials have compared Michael to the impostor immortalized in the movie Catch Me if You Can. The movie starring Leonardo DiCaprio depicts a man who successfully masqueraded as an airline pilot, a doctor and a lawyer for nearly five years.

As president of a Nevada diagnostic imaging center and a medical company, Michael practiced medicine without a license in Las Vegas between May 2001 and May 2003, a Nevada court affidavit alleges.

Michael told people that he had completed a residency in cardiothoracic surgery at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and had trained at several medical schools in various states, according to the affidavit.

Investigators, however, learned that Michael was never licensed to practice medicine in any of the states that he mentioned, the affidavit said.

Gerald J. Gardner, Nevada's chief deputy attorney general, said that evidence was also presented to a Las Vegas grand jury that, outside Kentucky, Michael purported to have a doctorate in business and had misrepresented himself as a lawyer, a commercial jet pilot, a nursing student and a Marine Corps veteran.

In Lexington, however, Central Baptist officials say they were careful to confirm that Michael was enrolled in a medical school before allowing him to observe heart surgeons.

"There's no evidence that he did anything improper" in Lexington, said Central Baptist Hospital spokeswoman Ruth Ann Childers. "We don't know that we could have done anything differently. We've never had any trouble like this in 50 years" of letting students observe.

Michael treated no patients at Central Baptist while he observed heart doctors in September and October, he did not have access to patient records and no patients were affected in any way, Childers said.

From now on, however, the hospital will only give observation privileges to students from the University of Kentucky, the University of Louisville, the Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine and those students who have personal references, Childers said.

Michael's observation privileges at Central Baptist were terminated as soon as officials learned about the indictment, Childers said.

Also, an internal investigation has been launched at St. Luke's School of Medicine of West Africa, where Childers and Gardner said Michael was enrolled.

In the school's California office, President Jerroll Dolphin declined to provide information about Michael, but he said anyone indicted on such a charge would be subject to dismissal.

"We're taking it very seriously. We're looking at our admission policies to see if maybe we are trusting people too much. We are looking into whether we possibly overlooked something," Dolphin said.

"We've been open six years and have 280 students, and we've never had a problem close to this," Dolphin said.

Childers said it is not unusual for foreign medical schools to ask physicians and hospitals across the country to allow students to observe. Michael did not have any apparent ties to Lexington before his school asked Central Baptist that he be allowed to observe.

Cardiologist Hal Skinner said Michael was assigned to him for four weeks of the observation rotation. Skinner said that in August a colleague asked him whether students from a foreign medical school could observe. Skinner said he did not have any indications of Michael's impending indictment, "but we'll only take in-state students from here on out."

Cardiovascular surgeon Dr. Robert Mitchell said that as a favor to another physician, he allowed Michael to observe him for 15 hours over four days before word of the indictment came.

Television news reports in Las Vegas and Lexington played up the Catch Me If You Can angle. As a result, many people erroneously thought Michael had been charged with a crime here, Mitchell said.

"When we let him work with us, he hadn't been indicted. Here, he was a legitimate medical student, but he was not allowed to participate in surgery other than to observe," he said.

Michael's Las Vegas attorney, William Terry, declined to comment. Michael, who pleaded not guilty, was released from jail in Las Vegas on Nov. 5 after paying a $1,000 bond, according to court records. A trial is scheduled for February.

 

[azskeptic]

http://www.som.tulane.edu/departments/admissions/documents/transfer.pdf