LGBT Applicant Interview Advice

[britt961]

Hi All,

I am applying for PhD clinical psychology programs that are located in various cities throughout the U.S...Philadelphia, Boston, Houston, Dallas, Salt Lake, etc.

I know that certain schools, student-body, or faculty may still be prejudiced against LGBT people, while others may consider being gay an asset to increase their school's diversity, considering them similar to ethnic minorities.

I've seen sample interview questions that may become personal, perhaps unintentionally. For instance, if an interviewer asks about a hardship or obstacle in one's life, and the hardship that one would like to discuss happens to be LGBT-related, then should the interviewee "come out" during the interview? Would you think this would potentially hurt or help one's application status?

Would it be inappropriate to ask about the student-body's attitude and support (or lack-thereof) of LGBT students during the interview?

Or, should I just avoid all mention of topics relating to sexual orientation?

Thanks

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[MCParent]

I know that certain schools, student-body, or faculty may still be prejudiced against LGBT people, while others may consider being gay an asset to increase their school's diversity, considering them similar to ethnic minorities.

APA accreditation reviews include sexual orientation in diversity of students. There would be trouble if the program was being discriminatory.

Would it be inappropriate to ask about the student-body's attitude and support (or lack-thereof) of LGBT students during the interview?

It's totally appropriate to ask this of faculty and students. You could ask it of (a) the program, (b) the department, (c) the college, (d) the university, (e) the community, and (f) the state, depending on your needs (e.g., same-sex benefits by the university or state is important if you're partnered, though in some states even if the state doesn't allow same-sex benefits a university might still do it, etc.). This might help, http://www.apa.org/apags/resources/clgbt-climate-guide.pdf I helped make this when I was on the CLGBTC.

Side-note: it ticks me off to no end that program and internship interviews regularly ask questions that range from unethical to illegal.

 

[Member1928]

I concur with MCParent. When I interviewed for graduate school and some internship interviews, one of the things I wanted to get more information about was the departmental, university, community support/resources for LGBT students. If you plan to conduct LGBT-related research you might also ask about experiences with the university IRB. Some IRB's are really good at understanding some of the unique issues that come up when conducting research with LGBT populations- its good to know. You need to make sure you're going to feel comfortable living the next 5-7 years in a given city so ask the questions to help you make an informed decision.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

I attend a master's program at one university and research at a good medical university in clinical psychology. This program happens to be the school where I would like to complete my Ph.D. after my master's I am currently doing. With this being said, my first interview I had with my PI, I had made sure that my identity was known, I would talk about being married (to a man of course), and I gauged his responses to such topics to see if he had any odd reactions or purposeful avoidance of such topics. I wanted to make sure that where I research and attend school is of a good atmosphere, otherwise, it would not be a good fit for me. When moments come along (which they frequently have) that involve disclosure of family life and office get-togethers with each other's families, I would not want to feel out of place or unwanted or shoved aside.

I am lucky to have a great PI and an office of other faculty members that are very progressive, or at least respectful of diversity. It would be hard to give you advice if you feel being "hidden" in parts of your life about your orientation is appropriate; this would not be a good time to experiment in testing your bravery. As an open gay man, married and living in Texas, I am an advocate for being open and not hidden. I do realize some people are still afraid and rationalize being reserved on this topic, but I would be the opponent to that rationality 😉.

Just my opinions of course...please feel free to talk if you would like. You had mentioned Dallas as being one city where you have submitted applications to, and I have experience within Dallas-area programs.

 

[Pragma]

In my experience at a couple of academic institutions, being LGBT is generally seen as an advantage. I don't think you need to worry when looking at graduate school options in most places. Where I have been, I have seen folks who are gay get a ton of opportunities, and probably more opportunities than straight people.

ETA: I guess it completely depends on the setting, but some of the settings I have been in really value admitting/hiring people who have been traditionally oppressed or underserved. I guess making a blanket statement is unfair though - there are definitely going to be some places where the opposite is probably true. But who would want to go there anyways?

 

[Topspin1]

As an openly gay applicant myself, this is a topic that's very important to me. I do not believe outing yourself in the interview process will hurt you, as psychology programs tend to be committed to social justice and recognize diversity among applicants. I wouldn't hesitate to ask about support for LGBT students if this is something that's important to you in a doctoral program; similar to CogNeuroGuy I wouldn't want to attend a program where I feel like I have to hide my identity and/or monitor what I say around faculty/students.

 

[rmenoch]

As an openly gay student in the process of applying for internships, I would definitely encourage you to incorporate your sexuality into your interviews since it is a crucial part of an individual's identity. I interviewed at programs in more "conservative" states, like Texas and Utah, and I *generally* found interviewers and graduate students to be very supportive and open to addressing my concerns. Several places even connected me with their LGBT staff/faculty to better address issues regarding sense of community. My only advice on top of what others have said is be prepared to potentially be asked some personal/odd questions if you bring sexuality into the interview. While all of the prospective mentors I interviewed with were great, I did have an odd experience with a secondary interviewer. I mentioned that my clinical interest in working with LGBT clients was related to my own experiences as a gay man, and later in the interview I was asked about a personal role model to which I gave a genuine (however clinched) response of "my mother." After expounding on the question, the interviewer asked if I thought "having a strong mother 'caused' (my) homosexuality." I gave a heart-felt answer about how I wasn't particular interested in finding the "cause" of my being gay. He became huffy and said I was avoiding the question. Overall moral: I might not have been in this awkward situation if I didn't bring my sexuality into the interview; however, I was much happier knowing that this program employed a faculty member that would ask such an inappropriate question and that it wouldn't be somewhere I'd be happy. The only thing I wished I had known was that just because I was the interviewee at the disadvantaged end of a power differential, I could have rightfully refused to answer the question.

 

[MCParent]

Overall moral: I might not have been in this awkward situation asked this illegal question

Fixed that for you.

Seriously; it ticks me off to no end that psychologists think they can ask questions that would get a recruiter for any other job immediately fired.

 

[MCParent]

... I am an advocate for being open and not hidden. I do realize some people are still afraid and rationalize being reserved on this topic, but I would be the opponent to that rationality 😉

Just one thing--this is pretty judgey. Some People Are Different From You. Not everyone is going to be "out" in the same way as you, and there's nothing wrong with that nor is it an indication of fear or rationalization.

 

[failureisnotfatal]

I don't really see why your sexuality would need to be brought up during an interview. I mean, as a minority, I wouldn't make it a point to bring up my race during an interview just for the hell of it or to use it to my advantage. But if they ask you some kind of question where it comes up (such as hardship or whatever) just answer honestly. If that involves bringing up the fact that you're gay, then so be it. But don't go out of your way to just bring it up and try to use it for some sort of diversity advantage. Just be honest about it if/when it comes up.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

While I do get the sentiment, I would say that being a racial or ethnic minority is not exactly the same as identifying as a sexually-based minority figure. Since the reality of our country is still developing with a substantial amount of people on both the "for" and "against" homosexual sides of the argument (same could be said for racial and ethnic minority groups), LGBT people are at a disadvantage when it comes to much of the protections in school and the work place that ethnic and racial minorities have in place. So, if all things were considered even, I would probably agree with you, but, since things are not as "even/equal" in terms of who gets to be more "diverse" than another applicant, this is something that is important to bring up. If you took the route you were advocating for and the program this person is applying to might have concealed feelings or treatments towards the LGBT community currently, this may not pan out to be the best experience for this person.

 

[failureisnotfatal]

While I do get the sentiment, I would say that being a racial or ethnic minority is not exactly the same is identifying as a sexually-based minority figure. Since the reality of our country is still developing with a substantial amount of people on both the "for" and "against" homosexual sides of the argument (same could be said for racial and ethnic minority groups), LGBT people are at a disadvantage when it comes to much of the protections in school and the work place that ethnic and racial minorities have in place. So, if all things were considered even, I would probably agree with you, but, since things are not as "even/equal" in terms of who gets to be more "diverse" than another applicant, this is something that is important to bring up. If you took the route you were advocating for and the program this person is applying to might have concealed feelings or treatments towards the LGBT community currently, this may not pan out to be the best experience for this person.

I (respectfully) disagree with you and I will leave it at that, my friend.

 

[rmenoch]

I don't really see why your sexuality would need to be brought up during an interview. I mean, as a minority, I wouldn't make it a point to bring up my race during an interview just for the hell of it or to use it to my advantage. But if they ask you some kind of question where it comes up (such as hardship or whatever) just answer honestly. If that involves bringing up the fact that you're gay, then so be it. But don't go out of your way to just bring it up and try to use it for some sort of diversity advantage. Just be honest about it if/when it comes up.

Would you really need to bring up your race? Race is (typically) a visible minority identity while sexuality is not always apparent (as judgements of sexuality are often based on gender non-conformity). So if someone choses to hire an African-American, it is more likely that the employer is comfortable working with an African-American; however, if an employer hires a gay person who did not disclose his or her identity the employee has no idea whether he or she will be accepted or ostracized should his or her sexuality come up. I mean I've never heard an African-American say, "my boss started harassing me after they found out I was African-American," after interviewing in-person, but I have heard gay people say, "my boss started harassing me after they found out I was gay." That's just my opinion, although others may disagree.

 

[failureisnotfatal]

Would you really need to bring up your race? Race is (typically) a visible minority identity while sexuality is not always apparent (as judgements of sexuality are often based on gender non-conformity). So if someone choses to hire an African-American, it is more likely that the employer is comfortable working with an African-American; however, if an employer hires a gay person who did not disclose his or her identity the employee has no idea whether he or she will be accepted or ostracized should his or her sexuality come up. I mean I've never heard an African-American say, "my boss started harassing me after they found out I was African-American," after interviewing in-person, but I have heard gay people say, "my boss started harassing me after they found out I was gay." That's just my opinion, although others may disagree.

The point of my original post was just to say that I don't think race/sexuality or any other minority status should be used to try to gain some sort of advantage. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously the fact that someone is a racial minority is more visible than if they are a sexual minority and in most cases racial minorities have it way harder because they don't even make it past the interview stage because the employer sees that they're a minority and decides not to hire them right away. Their minority status can't be hidden the way sexuality can and often times they have it harder because of it. But that is not what I was speaking of originally. All I was saying was don't go out of your way to point out that you are gay and make a big deal out of it and try and use it for an advantage. That's what I was saying.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

I think you are implying that using the "gay card" is apparently an immoral or unethical approach in graduate applications (at least what it seems from your posts). I would say that within our field (psychology), this is something to embrace, no matter what type of minority you may be. Some people feel about themselves and their possible minority status in a different way than others do (e.g. they don't think it's worthwhile to bring up, it shouldn't matter, etc.). In reality, we live in a world that does take this into consideration. In a perfect world scenario, we would rid all maladaptive thinking patterns from people and it would be a utopia! Since we live in a diverse and confounded environment, identifying as a minority doesn't need to be seen as using a crutch. This is a rough topic to talk about, because we could go into many aspects of stratification, etc.

I respect that you disagree with me, and I think we are on the same page with that at the moment, but, every minority has its quirks, so, if it is something an applicant believes strengthens or provides necessary fulfillment in the decision-making process for admissions, I think that is an asset. I keep using the approach of a potential applicant that applies to "X University." Well, while the program's APA disclaimer may state their program is open to all sorts of people, this may not be the true reality of it. As future psychologists, we often are forced to read between the lines and gauge underlying thematic processes. I research at an institution that has some great people, my PI is very liberal and makes for a very inviting person to collaborate with. There are some faculty members and even fellow colleagues in which this is not the case, they go out of their way to avoid topics that could potential bring up familial matters in the "work setting." The point is, as a future applicant, one should make sure that the program fits their needs. If someone is gay and doesn't really care if they would attend a program in a predominantly conservative atmosphere (e.i., something less progressive...let's just put it like that), this may very well be a good program for them. The goodness of fit model comes to mind 😛

 

[LETSGONYR]

The point of my original post was just to say that I don't think race/sexuality or any other minority status should be used to try to gain some sort of advantage. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously the fact that someone is a racial minority is more visible than if they are a sexual minority and in most cases racial minorities have it way harder because they don't even make it past the interview stage because the employer sees that they're a minority and decides not to hire them right away. Their minority status can't be hidden the way sexuality can and often times they have it harder because of it. But that is not what I was speaking of originally. All I was saying was don't go out of your way to point out that you are gay and make a big deal out of it and try and use it for an advantage. That's what I was saying.

I don't think that's what the OP was asking, though. There's a difference between "will disclosing my sexuality lead to discrimination?" and "will disclosing my sexuality lead to a leg up?"

Personally, I have chosen to disclose on interviews if the opportunity arises, as I want to make sure I can be open on the job and be in a supportive environment.

EDIT: I was thinking if I'd ever bring up the fact that I'm gay as an advantage. I suppose if I worked extensively with LGBT populations (or was applying for a position that did) I might, or if I was asked a question about diversity I might bring it up. In one of my interviews last year, the interviewer worked with kids with tic disorders, so I mentioned that my partner has a tic and how it affected him. I don't see anything wrong with that; just as if I'd said my wife has a tic.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

Just one thing--this is pretty judgey. Some People Are Different From You. Not everyone is going to be "out" in the same way as you, and there's nothing wrong with that nor is it an indication of fear or rationalization.

Yes, this came off in a different way than I intended, I do apologize 🙂

 

[rmenoch]

All I was saying was don't go out of your way to point out that you are gay and make a big deal out of it

If a therapist said this to me as a client, I wouldn't return. Guess we will continue to disagree.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Personally, I have chosen to disclose on interviews if the opportunity arises, as I want to make sure I can be open on the job and be in a supportive environment.

While not a perfect comparison…I view this the same as an applicant having a child/children and deciding whether or not to disclose the information. For some it is something that they need to make known, while other people may not think it is something they need (or want) to disclose. I personally would want to know if a job/position would be supportive of me…even if it is just for a year.

 

[failureisnotfatal]

Yes, this came off in a different way than I intended, I do apologize 🙂

No need to apologize. No offense was taken on my end. I'm just a college student commenting on an internet forum. I don't take it too seriously 🙂 Really, the only way op is going to get any real answers is by actually going to the interviews. All he/she is going to get on an internet forum is a bunch of differing opinions.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Tbh, I don't get the attitude of "If they aren't supportive of you because of [insert minority status/life situation], you wouldn't want to work there anyway." To me, that's saying "Well, if people are bigots, you're just better off unemployed," which... no. As a member of a visible minority group (not a racial/ethnic minority, though), I often wish that could choose whether or not to disclose my minority status during interviews because prejudice is more common than many people would like to think, and that you have no real time to counteract those prejudices during a brief interview. JMO.

Btw, I've been asked a ton of "illegal" interview questions.

 

[QAsPsych]

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[rmenoch]

APA accreditation reviews include sexual orientation in diversity of students. There would be trouble if the program was being discriminatory.



It's totally appropriate to ask this of faculty and students. You could ask it of (a) the program, (b) the department, (c) the college, (d) the university, (e) the community, and (f) the state, depending on your needs (e.g., same-sex benefits by the university or state is important if you're partnered, though in some states even if the state doesn't allow same-sex benefits a university might still do it, etc.). This might help, http://www.apa.org/apags/resources/clgbt-climate-guide.pdf I helped make this when I was on the CLGBTC.

Side-note: it ticks me off to no end that program and internship interviews regularly ask questions that range from unethical to illegal.

I have a somewhat tangential question (in relation to the OP's question) based on your experience with the APA. In the process of applying to internship sites I noticed that some college counseling centers require predoctoral interns to sign an "honor code" that ostensibly bans gay applicants. For instance, the BYU code bans homosexual behavior stating, "Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations between members of the same sex, but all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings." In speaking to a supporter of this honor code, I've heard the argument that chastity is required from heterosexual applicants so it should be required from gay applicants. But this always seemed like a round-about way of defending a ban on gay applicants to me, since I doubt these institutions would make exceptions for legally married gay individuals. Do you know how the APA justifies these "honor codes"? I guess I'm venting about how it sucks to feel like the APA internship accreditation system doesn't protect my rights. Before everyone says that I should make my feelings known to the APA, I want to let you know that I plan on doing so *after* I'm done with this process because it is stressful enough without adding another component to the process.

 

[MCParent]

Some People Are Different From You.

Some people will want to disclose their orientation to get a clear understanding of the environment they will be in. Some people are private and will want to get that information in a way that does not include disclosing. Neither of those is wrong. Especially, I think the OP was NOT asking to "get a leg up" by disclosing. No legit program is going to take an unqualified person just because they have XYZ identity.

But, the reality is that minority identities ARE advantages in some cases. Every job ad you see includes a line like "We especially encourage applicants from underrepresented backgrounds, sexual minorities, and ability statuses) or whatever.

I have a somewhat tangential question (in relation to the OP's question) based on your experience with the APA. In the process of applying to internship sites I noticed that some college counseling centers require predoctoral interns to sign an "honor code" that ostensibly bans gay applicants. For instance, the BYU code bans homosexual behavior stating, "Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations between members of the same sex, but all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings." In speaking to a supporter of this honor code, I've heard the argument that chastity is required from heterosexual applicants so it should be required from gay applicants. But this always seemed like a round-about way of defending a ban on gay applicants to me, since I doubt these institutions would make exceptions for legally married gay individuals. Do you know how the APA justifies these "honor codes"? I guess I'm venting about how it sucks to feel like the APA internship accreditation system doesn't protect my rights. Before everyone says that I should make my feelings known to the APA, I want to let you know that I plan on doing so *after* I'm done with this process because it is stressful enough without adding another component to the process.

lol. This was a CONSTANT issue in APA/APAGS. Google Footnote 4 to learn more about it. Basically--religious institutions are allowed to discriminate against people. APA has tried to fight this, but it goes across education areas and you can imagine how trying to fight it during the Bush II era went.

 

[MCParent]

Tbh, I don't get the attitude of "If they aren't supportive of you because of [insert minority status/life situation], you wouldn't want to work there anyway." To me, that's saying "Well, if people are bigots, you're just better off unemployed," which... no.

Well, that's a strawman, FA. The choice isn't really a doctoral program or begging on the street. The choice is probably a doctoral program or a different doctoral program, or maybe waiting a year. I don't think the OP was saying, "The faculty member must love me," I think they were saying "I want people to not be asses to me." When I applied for doc programs at one site a faculty member made a rude, sexist, heterosexist assumption about me ("Do you think that entering a female-dominated profession will lead to more dating opportunities for you?"). I don't know what I might have done if I didn't have other options, but since I did, it was an easy choice to not be around crazy.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

lol. This was a CONSTANT issue in APA/APAGS. Google Footnote 4 to learn more about it. Basically--religious institutions are allowed to discriminate against people. APA has tried to fight this, but it goes across education areas and you can imagine how trying to fight it during the Bush II era went.

…because it is soooo much better now, with all of those changes to the policies and greater acceptance at those same institutions that existed for 100+ yrs before the Bush II era?

Yeah…yeah…I'll take it to the SDN Political Forum. 😀

 

[MCParent]

…because it is soooo much better now, with all of those changes to the policies and greater acceptance at those same institutions that existed for 100+ yrs before the Bush II era?

Yeah…yeah…I'll take it to the SDN Political Forum. 😀

Here is an article on it: http://www.psysr.org/blog/2009/02/12/devil-in-the-details-apa’s-problematic-footnote-4/

And Obama did not repeal it either, despite people trying to get him to. I meant that the last time there was a concerted effort to change it was during the Bush II time. If there was a similar strong effort during the Obama administration I wasn't aware of it.

 

[britt961]

Thanks so much for the responses everyone! I'm glad to know that others were/are in the same boat, and your advice is very helpful.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Well, that's a strawman, FA. The choice isn't really a doctoral program or begging on the street. The choice is probably a doctoral program or a different doctoral program, or maybe waiting a year. I don't think the OP was saying, "The faculty member must love me," I think they were saying "I want people to not be asses to me." When I applied for doc programs at one site a faculty member made a rude, sexist, heterosexist assumption about me ("Do you think that entering a female-dominated profession will lead to more dating opportunities for you?"). I don't know what I might have done if I didn't have other options, but since I did, it was an easy choice to not be around crazy.

Well, yes, for doctoral programs, it's not a choice between admission and begging, but in terms of job interviews, it could very well between chronic unemployment and having a steady income. And I think a key part of your example is "having other options." There's a world of difference between choosing to turn down an offer because they said something rude or offensive or otherwise indicated that it wouldn't be the best environment and having everyone else make that choice for you, because they automatically write you off based on that minority status. To co-opt renoch's example, it's sort of like the difference between choosing not to apply to BYU for internship because it's probably not a welcoming environment for anyone who isn't heterosexual/heteroromantic and being unable to apply to BYU because you are not straight. In one situation, the applicant has some degree of choice; in the other, the "choice" is made for them.