Lieing about voluteer Hours

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Cozell

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How are your community service or volunteer hours supposed to be accuratly charted and submitted. I have been volunteering at my local hospital for over a year now but we have a nice electronic system that charts all of my volunteer hours and Im sure this can be printed out and signed however, Couldnt people simply say O I did 500+ hours coaching a little league team in an underserved community and simply have no chart of all the hours.

How is this information presented in applications and what proof is needed.

Are documents actually required. Or does everyone just overestimate thier hours or add variety by fabricating service hours.

Thank you.

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You need to provide a contact person (phone number and email) who can verify that what you've claimed is true. For example, the volunteer coordinator at the hospital can verify a volunteer's hours.
 
so lets say whoever this contact person is, if they happen to be a shady person they can cover for you and say "oh yeah he did 1,000 hours!" meanwhile they did 100
 
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so lets say whoever this contact person is, if they happen to be a shady person they can cover for you and say "oh yeah he did 1,000 hours!" meanwhile they did 100

People have been doing that since the beginning of time. And it's not just limited to a medical school app.
 
For the most part if you go over by a little bit it is no big deal. Most schools don't call around your contact unless something seems off....


if they find out you're lying pretty much reject city....
 
You need to provide a contact person (phone number and email) who can verify that what you've claimed is true. For example, the volunteer coordinator at the hospital can verify a volunteer's hours.

The chances of them anyone verifying hours is low. Applicants can always create a Google Voice number and verify their own 'volunteering hours.' :laugh:
 
Ok so two questions then

1. What all does an applicant have to submit when they claim volunteer/shadowing hours (Im shadowing tomorow ,,OYEAH).

2. What is the point of schools weighing heavily on volunteer hours if students and obviously smart students can easily fabricate an exceptional amount of hours and a way to cover themselves.
 
Ok so two questions then

1. What all does an applicant have to submit when they claim volunteer/shadowing hours (Im shadowing tomorow ,,OYEAH).

2. What is the point of schools weighing heavily on volunteer hours if students and obviously smart students can easily fabricate an exceptional amount of hours and a way to cover themselves.
1. You need to provide a contact name, phone number OR e-mail.

2. Most students do not lie, and if you grossly lie or exaggerate, it's going to be obvious or appear so in interviews.
 
Ok so two questions then

1. What all does an applicant have to submit when they claim volunteer/shadowing hours (Im shadowing tomorow ,,OYEAH).

2. What is the point of schools weighing heavily on volunteer hours if students and obviously smart students can easily fabricate an exceptional amount of hours and a way to cover themselves.

1) Put them in your Work/Activities section on AMCAS, or add it under the 'additional info' essay on your secondary.

2) You can fabricate, but just know if they call and find out you lied, that questions your ethical standards and is pretty much game over for medical school. The biggest thing with medical schools is that you demonstrate and can talk about how much you care and learned from these experiences, not how many hours you put into them...
 
You're looking at it the wrong way. ADCOM's don't care so much about hours so much as they do about what you actually got out of the experience. You could log one thousand hours with the American Red Cross and not get a thing out of it, or you could work a couple weekends a term tutoring economically disadvantaged youth and actually learn a thing or two about the human condition.

It isn't about hours, but personal growth and maturity. That takes time; time you can't always log.
 
You're looking at it the wrong way. ADCOM's don't care so much about hours so much as they do about what you actually got out of the experience. You could log one thousand hours with the American Red Cross and not get a thing out of it, or you could work a couple weekends a term tutoring economically disadvantaged youth and actually learn a thing or two about the human condition.

It isn't about hours, but personal growth and maturity. That takes time; time you can't always log.

Exactly.

(sent from my phone - please forgive typos)
 
Exactly.

(sent from my phone - please forgive typos)

+1
The number of hours you do is irrelevant imo, what's important is what you get out of it. And I'm sure some applicants b.s stuff on their applications- even though the risks may be low of getting caught, the consequences are enormous so its not worth it
 
I think only about half of my volunteer entries had valid contact info in them. adcoms dont check them out, and it is beside the point to do so anyways. There are a good many things you can volunteer your time to that wont have an official contact person or number.
 
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So why not just make up the "what did you learn from this experience" part while you are at it?

I'm sure someone can fake personal growth and maturity
 
So why not just make up the "what did you learn from this experience" part while you are at it?

I'm sure someone can fake personal growth and maturity

No, it actually isn't that easily faked. Especially in an interview it'll be obvious which activities are meaningful to you and had an impact on your development.
 
So why not just make up the "what did you learn from this experience" part while you are at it?

I'm sure someone can fake personal growth and maturity

I'm sure many people do. Just like politicians say whatever they can to win an election, getting into med school is no different.

As long as your game face matches your PS, then you're good. Better get that Mirror Mirror babbbbaayyyyyyyyyyy
 
So why not just make up the "what did you learn from this experience" part while you are at it?

I'm sure someone can fake personal growth and maturity

I'm guessing these interviewers are pretty good at reading people and can sense BS pretty well. Then again, if you need to "live the lie" then it is best to keep repeating it over again so that you yourself can believe it. It's all about internalizing the lie.

I'm personally fine with pushing 120 hours of volunteer work to 150 just because 150 seems to hit a magic number in their head that crosses the threshold of significant and insignificant even though it makes no sense.
 
the answer you are all looking for is: yes, you can in fact BS your way into med school if you have the proper scores. It is not easy, and I would argue it is far easier to just go do the volunteering rather than concoct some story to try to stick to. They dont need FBI interrogators to know when you are full of it so why take the risk?
 
I'm guessing these interviewers are pretty good at reading people and can sense BS pretty well. Then again, if you need to "live the lie" then it is best to keep repeating it over again so that you yourself can believe it. It's all about internalizing the lie.

I'm personally fine with pushing 120 hours of volunteer work to 150 just because 150 seems to hit a magic number in their head that crosses the threshold of significant and insignificant even though it makes no sense.

yes, go "live the lie". It is important to research your role, however. Probably best to get into some volunteer role to see how actual volunteers act so you can act convincingly. That will sure show them 👍:meanie:
 
You'd probably experience the same thing volunteering for 100 hrs as you would with 200 hrs, but listing 200hrs of clinical experience sure does look good lol.

Btw, I didn't misrepresent any of my volunteering for my app, but I've definitely seen it done by others in other walks of life and can understand why someone would do it for this process. Does it affect me? Nope. My own merits (pending my mcat) and the color of my skin :meanie: :laugh: will be good enough to get me in!
 
You'd probably experience the same thing volunteering for 100 hrs as you would with 200 hrs, but listing 200hrs of clinical experience sure does look good lol.

Btw, I didn't misrepresent any of my volunteering for my app, but I've definitely seen it done by others in other walks of life and can understand why someone would do it for this process. Does it affect me? Nope. My own merits (pending my mcat) and the color of my skin :meanie: :laugh: will be good enough to get me in!

:hijacked:

Sigh...

/ranton

As if this ass-backwards, unethical policy isn't racist enough to warrant critique. If you ever question why people look at URM applicants different than non-URM applicants, this 'lowered standard' is it.

But I digress...

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Funny how we have still yet to achieve this, much of which is due to back tracking in order to 'save' those who were oppressed by giving their children benefits from something they never experienced.

If anything, these policies should be based solely upon the socioeconomic status of the applicant with no regard to ethnicity, and even then it challenges the fundamental beliefs of the U.S. capitalistic system that has done us well in the past. Educating those in impoverished areas of all the opportunity for aid and success in medical fields would be a much better investment, making those less well-off aware of what they are capable of achieving and who will help them on the way, especially with regard to finances.

And yes I know I sound like an awful person, but sometimes things just need to be said. Regardless, I will still be applying URM, as not doing so is foolish. (Stats: Balanced 36 MCAT, c/s3.9 GPA, Research, Clinical/Non-clinical work, Shadowing, Volunteering, etc)

/rantoff

thisiswhywecanthavenicethings.jpg :slap:
 
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yes, go "live the lie". It is important to research your role, however. Probably best to get into some volunteer role to see how actual volunteers act so you can act convincingly. That will sure show them 👍:meanie:

This is great advice. I actually volunteered at the clinic for roughly 300 hours to observe how the people with 500 hours act. Now, I can say that I got 500 hours on my application and they will never know!! 😎
 
When I sum up my volunteer hours for each entry, I'll probably round up (e.g. from 83.5 to 85) but I don't feel comfortable doing much more than that.

The bottom line is this: The reward for fabricating hours is small, but the risk is enormous. So just don't do it.
 
So why not just make up the "what did you learn from this experience" part while you are at it?

I'm sure someone can fake personal growth and maturity

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I still don't see this "cumulative hours" thing anywhere on the AMCAS. They ask you for "hours/week", which is obviously an average. I have an EC where I may put in up to 70 hours/week. Another week I may put in 0-5 hours. It would be impossible for me to calculate how many hours I've done this over 7 years without rounding heavily.

I think your achievements and LORs speak to your commitment more than what you list.

I also think it would be a bad idea to list something as "Most meaningful" without having a LOR to back it up.
 
I still don't see this "cumulative hours" thing anywhere on the AMCAS. They ask you for "hours/week", which is obviously an average. I have an EC where I may put in up to 70 hours/week. Another week I may put in 0-5 hours. It would be impossible for me to calculate how many hours I've done this over 7 years without rounding heavily.

I think your achievements and LORs speak to your commitment more than what you list.

I also think it would be a bad idea to list something as "Most meaningful" without having a LOR to back it up.

It's okay, for some entries, to sum up your total hours committed so as to provide a more accurate value for adcoms. There's no hard and fast rule regarding when this should be done, but it's an option.
 
I butchered that Quote but I was reffering to PREMED OR DEAD.

thisiswhywecanthaveicethings.jpg :slap:[/QUOTE] I butchered that Quote but I was reffering to PREMED OR DEAD.


Hey I appreciate your sentiment about Socioeconomic status but you obviously do not know the meaning of URM (WHEN USED ON THESE FORUMS) it means underepresented in the health care field. As if to say their are 100 white doctors and 10,000 white people and their are 10 black doctors and 8,000 black people this is a simple way to show you the imbalance though it is not to accurate scale, this is the imbalance that these acts (Affr. Act.) try to equalize.

And please dont insult African American triumps and quote a great Civil rights activist (MLK) in such a way. How did you insult you ask, you insult by assuming the Affr.Act. is the answer to every AA's daily struggle, I dont see you getting up in arms about the years of Jim Crow, rodney king beatings, racial profiling in stores,waiters not taking African american tables because they "Wont Tip well" (Im a waiter BTW) once all the many other issues are resolved you can attack the few advantages African Americans have (and i just named a few dont want to be to lengthy).. But anyway

RANT OFF (Back to the Topic)

-----------------------------------(**********ALERT*********** Hopeless rant above** real Post Below*************ALERT************)------------------

I am in line to have around maybe over 500 hours by the time that I apply and I will have a ton of experience derived from those hours but why should I spend my time that I could use for studying, to volunteer (Other than the fact that I really enjoy it and helping others) when it really does not matter in the first place if I have 100 or 900hrs.

I have heard of plenty of schools that say they weigh heavy on shadowing and volunteer hours. I Also really like to show up at the hospital every week and do my part its great for exposure to medical terminology and update on status of medicine in the hospital among other things but if students can simply lie it hurts those who actually put in the time I mean it's good to know before you shell out 500hrs of your life.
 
Hey I appreciate your sentiment about Socioeconomic status but you obviously do not know the meaning of URM (WHEN USED ON THESE FORUMS) it means underepresented in the health care field. As if to say their are 100 white doctors and 10,000 white people and their are 10 black doctors and 8,000 black people this is a simple way to show you the imbalance though it is not to accurate scale, this is the imbalance that these acts (Affr. Act.) try to equalize.

I am well aware of what URM is, whom it applies to, and what it is trying to do. I'm saying I disagree with its sentiment, although I understand its intention. Black people feel more comfortable around black doctors, I am aware of this and have heard personal experiences. However, it doesn't justify taking a less competent doctor in place of a more competent one simply because he's a different racial profile. As an educated URM, I'd rather have a genius Asian doctor that doesn't relate to me at all but will cure me rather than a doctor of my ethnic profile that constantly has to get referrals because he doesn't know the intricacies of my disorder. A simple metaphor would be House M.D., where House doesn't even associate with his patients, but he cures them. In the end, that's all that matters to me. "Comfortableness" in the 15 minutes I talk to the doctor is far from my primary concern. On the extreme side of things, I'd rather have a doctor whom I never see but treats me correctly than a doctor that holds my hand while I die. Me entiendes?

And please dont insult African American triumps and quote a great Civil rights activist (MLK) in such a way. How did you insult you ask, you insult by assuming the Affr.Act. is the answer to every AA's daily struggle, I dont see you getting up in arms about the years of Jim Crow, rodney king beatings, racial profiling in stores,waiters not taking African american tables because they "Wont Tip well" (Im a waiter BTW) once all the many other issues are resolved you can attack the few advantages African Americans have (and i just named a few dont want to be to lengthy).. But anyway

I was not insulting MLK, I was actually complementing him and all he has done for us in helping achieve the closer-to-ideal country that we live in today. If you think I'm insulting him or the movement, you're interpretation of my quoting was dead wrong. I actually used this quote in my WS, thanks MLK!

Basically, if there are no legal or religious persecutions, stereotyping and racial profiling is absolutely a piece of human nature. The only way to modify them is to change the stereotype or the racial profile, which does not take government intervention but personal intervention. Insinuating that Aff. Act. aids in their struggles is not only incorrect, in a legal sense it's reverse discrimination. In your personal example, ought we give the child of a bitter old white man Aff. Act. because the waiters don't wait on him because they know he doesn't tip well and is verbally abusive? How about when you avoid serving college kids, because they stereotypically do not tip well? Should all college kids and their children receive benefits from their 'persecution'?

Your example is a dead end and a utopia that doesn't have a defined fix but a undefinable, scattered one.

Oh, and if you want a fix, it's coming. Once the older generations who weren't exposed to the racial days are dead, and most of our population has 'homogenized', the whole racial URM thing should go out with the times. It would definitely be better than the 15/16 Caucasian digging through their family tree to find out that their great great great grandmother slept around with an Indian, giving them 1/16 Native American and a full ride to many schools.

Thanks, grandmama.

TL;DR - Time heals, not affirmative action. In the short half-century since social reform, the societal change is astronomical. We will get there, eventually. Outside involvement is like poking a zit, all it does is get redder and redder until it pops and bleeds everywhere. Until then, so long, and thanks for all the fish.


On topic:

I used hours/wk for descriptions that I was near the character limit on and activities I wasn't certain of my total hours on-site.
I used total hours for descriptions I had room to put it in and was aware of exactly how many hours I had accumulated.

I can see AdComs not caring much about how many hours, but moreso what can you say about those hours. So hording or lying about hours will not only be useless, but dangerous towards you application.

So yes, go ahead and do that, more seats for me!
 
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I appreciate your reply and I can somewhat relate to your ideals however I do disagree in many ways with you I do respect you. I will say this as an AA male I did not grow up with the comfort of a loving school environment and most importantly i did not have the luxury of a comfortable home environment.

You make good sense but you simply leave out the important piece to a very vauge puzzle, you stated that socioeconomic status should be the factor not skin color I agree. However when you so quickly dismiss AA position in medical you do not consider that so many more AA's are socioeconomicaly disadvantaged, like myself I do not pitty myself or feel i am owed anything I do however know for a fact I did not have a level playing field with most of my classmates.

And finally you said this " it doesn't justify taking a less competent doctor in place of a more competent one simply because he's a different racial profile". Now we both know you do not go to medical school as a doctor you leave medical school a doctor so are you telling me that the students at harvard are FAAAR better doctors than the Students at Brody school of Medicine here at ECU. I mean they have about a .3-5 higher GPA upon acceptance at ivies , which is about the difference of the Affr. Act. so called advantage. So if you are not being treated by a Johns Hopkins grad then you must not be getting good medical care? It seems we tend to take one factor into consideration without taking into consideration that very factors counter that plays directly into the very situation we have here.

Once again I respect you and your oppinion and I am glad that anothr AA can go on to promote self worth and demonstrate great accomplishments like yours, good luck in you endeavors.
 
I respect your opinions as well, and I understand what you are trying to say; dissension is a part of life, and is how good things happen.

In no way am I saying that the doctors are flat out incompetent, they just may not be the 'best of the best' as it ought to be. Give more opportunities to disadvantaged students in order to help even the playing field, but do not crack open the back door of the school and let them in (allocating spots). This opens a whole different can of worms that I am alluding to. Above all, I am saying that his type of attitude is another reason why people get peeved about the whole URM system, making it sound like people truly abuse it (which, in fact, is true).

Equal opportunity, not necessarily equal representation. We live in a competitive country, keeping it that way is the ideal. If all of our doctors end up being Asian, so be it.

I wish you the best of luck!
 
Not what I expected to find in this thread. Kudos to whoever derailed this into a URM argument.
 
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Once a thread is answered it tends to take a spin for the worst.

As long as it stays civil:

imokaywiththat.jpg
 
I'd like to interrupt this URM debate to mention that my eye twitches every time I see the title of this thread.
 
I'd like to interrupt this URM debate to mention that my eye twitches every time I see the title of this thread.
I remember there being this letter that came before "z", but I can't recall what it was
 
I remember there being this letter that came before "z", but I can't recall what it was

Is it V, or W?

I was more concerned about the lack of an 'n' and the capitalization of the word 'hours.'
 
yes, go "live the lie". It is important to research your role, however. Probably best to get into some volunteer role to see how actual volunteers act so you can act convincingly. That will sure show them 👍:meanie:

:laugh: You have to learn how to think like one of these "volunteers".
 
Let the hurt flow through you my son.

LMAO

And to Pre Med or Dead 👍 your alright by me Bro, BUuut you know we only have about 1000 AA males apply to medical school a year out of about 42000 applicants and a little over half of that 1000 is rejected so its not like URM means you skate right into medical school.

I threw gas on a fire that was almost out but my excuse is that I tripped on a rug or something.
 
If you are good at telling a story, and "playing the game", you can easily fabricate the volunteer experience. Of course, with lies, you have to always remember them and keep the story consistent. So, I would recommend the truth path!

But...just being a devil's advocate.
 
No, it actually isn't that easily faked. Especially in an interview it'll be obvious which activities are meaningful to you and had an impact on your development.

you can live vicariously through someone else, adopt their story, and go from there. I've seen people lie about how great they are at XXX, or was involved in YYY for years, but in reality didn't do any of those things. They just were good at manipulation + acting.
 
I respect your opinions as well, and I understand what you are trying to say; dissension is a part of life, and is how good things happen.

I was going to correct you and say it should be 'dissent.' Yet, 'dissension' is actually a word. 🙂 Thanks for that.

I'd like to interrupt this URM debate to mention that my eye twitches every time I see the title of this thread.

Thought this was a Casino Royale reference at first.
 
you can live vicariously through someone else, adopt their story, and go from there. I've seen people lie about how great they are at XXX, or was involved in YYY for years, but in reality didn't do any of those things. They just were good at manipulation + acting.

I am quite good at XXX actually.

😉
 
If you stopped lieing about during your volunteer hours, you wouldn't have to worry about lying about them...
 
Lie about something more important like penis size.
 
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