Life after med school / residency

[787593]

For those of you who've finished med school or residency, how has your quality of life changed?
Do you miss being a student? What's it like to have a salary?

Checking my bank account before going to chipotle and studying all day long is getting old

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[ACSurgeon]

For those of you who've finished med school or residency, how has your quality of life changed?
Do you miss being a student? What's it like to have a salary?

Checking my bank account before going to chipotle and studying all day long is getting old

So much better then being a student or resident.

We had babies so in a way it’s more tiresome and stressful lol

The money is good. Really good. However, if you have student loans, and wish to be financially responsible, you will still have to plan things out and decide what your priorities are...

 

[787593]

So much better then being a student or resident.

We had babies so in a way it’s more tiresome and stressful lol

The money is good. Really good. However, if you have student loans, and wish to be financially responsible, you will still have to plan things out and decide what your priorities are...

Thanks!

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

After residency, life is nice.
During residency, not so much.
You have a salary in residency and it’s okay—just as long as you don’t think too much about how if you average it out to 80hrs/week, it’s less than minimum wage, lol.

 

[Tenk]

It’s dope.

 

[getdown]

it's pretty sweet

 

[afib123]

Can't wait 7 years of residency + 1 year of med school

 

[michaelrack]

The main problem with life after residency is that you are no longer young

 

[anon6134]

The main problem with life after residency is that you are no longer young

Damn. Right in the feels

 

[Splenda88]

Can't wait 7 years of residency + 1 year of med school

30 something is relatively young...

 

[emergentmd]

I was making $3-4/hr during some of my surgery rotations. And those were the best minimum wage hours I ever had compared to med school. Med school really really really really sucks.

 

[IMreshopeful]

As you get further in residency and or fellowship it gets better even though the pay still kinda sucks.

Being an attending I haven’t experienced yet. I’ll let you know. But I imagine getting paid better will be the first good step.

I second what was said by an earlier poster - your responsibilities increase particularly after having kids so the stress doesn’t go away. It’s like being on call 24/7.

It’s also true that we are older and not as energetic and young as when i started medical school (now 10 years ago... wow). So you do start to feel that. Your friends in other fields may be much more financially independent and have been so for the last 10 years without more higher education. But at the same time you are also in a career where you’re going to hopefully enjoy what you do and reap the rewards.

 

[deleted480308]

I was making $3-4/hr during some of my surgery rotations. And those were the best minimum wage hours I ever had compared to med school. Med school really really really really sucks.

even 40k/yr (very low for residency) is ~800/wk. to make $4/hr you would have to work 200 hours a wk and there are only 168.

I'm all for whining about residency being too many hours but.....come on

 

[NYCdude]

So much better then being a student or resident.

We had babies so in a way it’s more tiresome and stressful lol

The money is good. Really good. However, if you have student loans, and wish to be financially responsible, you will still have to plan things out and decide what your priorities are...

Did you make repaying loans a priority? Or did you pay the minimum and invest the money elsewhere?

 

[IlDestriero]

The best thing you can do is to pay off your debt aggressively. How aggressively is up to you, but there’s something to be said for being debt free. The only debt I have is a mortgage that I have a lot of equity in. The second best thing you can do is to continue to live well below your means. Just because you can afford a McLaren and an R8 and a vacation house doesn’t mean it’s a great idea. I like to say that the Jones’s need to keep up with me, they just don’t know it. Stealthy wealthy is the best. It’s very freeing. I could sell my house, move anywhere, retire early, etc. When the time is right, consider investing in things that will bring you passive income. Then you’re really set.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Did you make repaying loans a priority? Or did you pay the minimum and invest the money elsewhere?

I’m paying them off over 5 years and still putting 20% of my gross in retirement accounts/other saving or investing type of accounts... It ends up being a big chunk of my gross but I’ll be glad to be debt free with a good chunk in savings before I’m 40...

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Student loans are 6 to 8%. Do your investments make significantly more than that? If not, pay off the debt
Debt is tyranny. Your creditors get paid first, before you. Although, some debt is deductible, which helps. But if you give the govt 2 dollars and they give you 1 back, when can you retire? See what i mean?

 

[ACSurgeon]

Student loans are 6 to 8%. Do your investments make significantly more than that? If not, pay off the debt
Debt is tyranny. Your creditors get paid first, before you. Although, some debt is deductible, which helps. But if you give the govt 2 dollars and they give you 1 back, when can you retire? See what i mean?

There’s a lot of ways to look at it.

Investments can fluctuate. Interest rates are still low now so locking in a 5-10 year student loan repayment program at 4% isn’t too bad.

Also, you need to earn as much as your monthly expenses are to survive. If you have 250k in student loans, your monthly payment for 25 years st 6.8% is still like 2000/month. That’s a big bill and can be the reason you have to work more years thank you like.

I know what my income is now. It probably won’t drop much in the next five years. But 10-20 years from now? All bets are off. I want to have the option to work as much as I want. So, once my loans are done I’ll try to pay off my house in a short amount of time while still investing aggressively.

Only then will i feel ok about more luxury things.

Btw the above is with stil enjoying many things in life. I don’t have a German car or a mansion, but I can spend money on conveniences and vacations etc

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

So, I want to have some advice in term of maintaining health throughout residency in order to enjoy life a little bit here.

Went to med school around 30 y/o with like maybe 5-6 strands of white hair, and was able to run 4-5 mil at about 9mph hour pace.

Soon to be done with 3rd yr, and I have like maybe like 10-15 strands of white hair with maybe like 10% frontal hair loss at either corners, and can run maybe 2 miles at 6.8 mph pace. My BP should be solid considering that I really hate eating salty food.

Is there any way to maintain my health for the next 5-6 years of residency + fellowship training, so that I don't look and feel like an old grandpa after training?

 

[Gilakend]

So, I want to have some advice in term of maintaining health throughout residency in order to enjoy life a little bit here.

Went to med school around 30 y/o with like maybe 5-6 strands of white hair, and was able to run 4-5 mil at about 9mph hour pace.

Soon to be done with 3rd yr, and I have like maybe like 10-15 strands of white hair with maybe like 10% frontal hair loss at either corners, and can run maybe 2 miles at 6.8 mph pace. My BP should be solid considering that I really hate eating salty food.

Is there any way to maintain my health for the next 5-6 years of residency + fellowship training, so that I don't look and feel like an old grandpa after training?

If my calculations are correct if you are able to average 7.215 hours of sleep per night (averaged over 2 weeks) and maintain a diet of 25% protein, 25% fat, and 50% carbs while exercising to a heart rate of 113 BPM for 27 minutes 4x weekly you should finish residency with only 27 gray hairs, 12.5% frontal hair loss (5% crown balding), and being able maintain your current running pace.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gilakend]

So, I want to have some advice in term of maintaining health throughout residency in order to enjoy life a little bit here.

Went to med school around 30 y/o with like maybe 5-6 strands of white hair, and was able to run 4-5 mil at about 9mph hour pace.

Soon to be done with 3rd yr, and I have like maybe like 10-15 strands of white hair with maybe like 10% frontal hair loss at either corners, and can run maybe 2 miles at 6.8 mph pace. My BP should be solid considering that I really hate eating salty food.

Is there any way to maintain my health for the next 5-6 years of residency + fellowship training, so that I don't look and feel like an old grandpa after training?

but on a serious note, that running change does not give me hope for how much time I'll have to exercise in med school.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

So, I want to have some advice in term of maintaining health throughout residency in order to enjoy life a little bit here.

Went to med school around 30 y/o with like maybe 5-6 strands of white hair, and was able to run 4-5 mil at about 9mph hour pace.

Soon to be done with 3rd yr, and I have like maybe like 10-15 strands of white hair with maybe like 10% frontal hair loss at either corners, and can run maybe 2 miles at 6.8 mph pace. My BP should be solid considering that I really hate eating salty food.

Is there any way to maintain my health for the next 5-6 years of residency + fellowship training, so that I don't look and feel like an old grandpa after training?

Wow, that really depends on the residency, what service you are on, etc. Dont forget you need adequate sleep to heal between workouts. It can be done, but it requires lots of discipline and being organized. We used to run a mile each way to the gym in residency, but could only get about 3 workouts a week. Wife is now up at 0430 to ride the bike or elliptical in basement before work. If you dont exercise in the am, it's hard to work in later.

 

[emergentmd]

even 40k/yr (very low for residency) is ~800/wk. to make $4/hr you would have to work 200 hours a wk and there are only 168.

I'm all for whining about residency being too many hours but.....come on

I remembered this very well when I did the numbers. I may be dating myself but I started as an intern at 27K/yr.

My 1st rotation was Gen surg where we did Q 3 calls and I remember doing this calculation. I had 10 Call days and each were 5a-5p next day (if lucky) so about 36hrs but hit 40 hrs on some. On most noncall/post call day we were 5a-8p = 15 hrs. So 36x10 + 15x10 = 510 hrs where I made a monthly Gross $2250. This comes out to $4.4/hr.

I will say that this was brutal and residency was downhill after this. I have the utmost respect for surgeons who did this for 5 years. I have the absolute utmost respect for the neurosurgeon interns who were doing Q2 call, 3 months straight.

 

[deleted480308]

I remembered this very well when I did the numbers. I may be dating myself but I started as an intern at 27K/yr.

My 1st rotation was Gen surg where we did Q 3 calls and I remember doing this calculation. I had 10 Call days and each were 5a-5p next day (if lucky) so about 36hrs but hit 40 hrs on some. On most noncall/post call day we were 5a-8p = 15 hrs. So 36x10 + 15x10 = 510 hrs where I made a monthly Gross $2250. This comes out to $4.4/hr.

I will say that this was brutal and residency was downhill after this. I have the utmost respect for surgeons who did this for 5 years. I have the absolute utmost respect for the neurosurgeon interns who were doing Q2 call, 3 months straight.

ahhh, the old pay scale. Booooooo for that mess

 

[emergentmd]

So, I want to have some advice in term of maintaining health throughout residency in order to enjoy life a little bit here.

Went to med school around 30 y/o with like maybe 5-6 strands of white hair, and was able to run 4-5 mil at about 9mph hour pace.

Soon to be done with 3rd yr, and I have like maybe like 10-15 strands of white hair with maybe like 10% frontal hair loss at either corners, and can run maybe 2 miles at 6.8 mph pace. My BP should be solid considering that I really hate eating salty food.

Is there any way to maintain my health for the next 5-6 years of residency + fellowship training, so that I don't look and feel like an old grandpa after training?

Residency prob alittle easier now before hour restrictions but somewhat similar. Just remember to put training at the top of your to do list. You can always find 30 min to go running for 3-4 miles.

I am not a morning person especially when sleep deprived and its hard to have a routine when some days you are in the hospital all day. But you can find an hr to go exercise (which for me is a must) 3-4 times a week. I have been known to go to the gym at midnight if I know I won't have to be at work til 9am.

 

[siliso]

Post residency: It’s great. I get paid a more than decent salary to do what I’m good at and like doing: take care of sick people. And teach residents and students. And I stroll in at 0830 and have golden weekends every weekend and never, ever do 28 hour calls again.

BTW: I’m a primary care internist in the VA

 

[thepoopologist]

For those of you who've finished med school or residency, how has your quality of life changed?
Do you miss being a student? What's it like to have a salary?

Checking my bank account before going to chipotle and studying all day long is getting old

Quality of life has improved. More free time but I'm in psychiatry and work 4 days a week

I do not miss being a student.

The salary without considering student loans is great. Buying chipotle now is equivalent in feeling to spending 1 dollar as a resident on lunch.

 

[TeddyBears]

Quality of life has improved. More free time but I'm in psychiatry and work 4 days a week

I do not miss being a student.

The salary without considering student loans is great. Buying chipotle now is equivalent in feeling to spending 1 dollar as a resident on lunch.

I like this chipotle standard measurement. I think we can use this instead of GDP moving forward. lol

 

[787593]

I like this chipotle standard measurement. I think we can use this instead of GDP moving forward. lol

This means I'll be around 50,000 chipotle burritos in debt after residency

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

I like this chipotle standard measurement. I think we can use this instead of GDP moving forward. lol

Someone has basically already done the math:

The Big Mac index

 

[anbuitachi]

Med school was the worst (ms2/ms3) , hated being ppls B****, you still get that in residency, but it definitely gets better but it also depends on what residency. i see some of my surgery colleagues look miserable, and you definitely see some of them change as residency progresses, they go from nice to cranky and short tempered.

but anyway, even though hours are long in residency, its stressful, theres still lot of studying, the paycheck really helps even though its not much. i look at my bank statement maybe once every couple months, if you dont live extravagantly, its more than enough and i live in one of the most expensive cities in US.

But i agree with what someone said above, the worst thing is you will be 'old' especially if you haven't had the other aspects of your life figured out yet (family, etc). you really feel your body breaking down after all those years of training. every joint hurts, those gray hairs start dominating, you get winded after running 30 feet

 

[TeddyBears]

Someone has basically already done the math:

The Big Mac index

How have I lived my life without this knowledge. I feel so embarrassed now. :-(

 

[Everyusernamewasgone]

If my calculations are correct if you are able to average 7.215 hours of sleep per night (averaged over 2 weeks) and maintain a diet of 25% protein, 25% fat, and 50% carbs while exercising to a heart rate of 113 BPM for 27 minutes 4x weekly you should finish residency with only 27 gray hairs, 12.5% frontal hair loss (5% crown balding), and being able maintain your current running pace.

Hope this helps.

Hahaha..I've been doing it all wrong.

Post residency: It’s great. I get paid a more than decent salary to do what I’m good at and like doing: take care of sick people. And teach residents and students. And I stroll in at 0830 and have golden weekends every weekend and never, ever do 28 hour calls again.

BTW: I’m a primary care internist in the VA

That can't come soon enough. I've said goodbye to my weekends and being on call can be a struggle! But, still can't complain. How are you enjoying primary care? I'm in oncology. Also, how did you get into teaching residents and students? It's something I've considered for a while.

 

[Stagg737]

Currently an intern, so still have a long way to go but it's a lot better than med school. Even with a new kid my medicine months were still alright. It's a different kind of stress too: responsibility to patients as opposed to just yourself while less stress from finances and knowing that "I made it". I'm psych so my weekly hours are pretty low compared to most (usually ~50/wk), but even on my IM months where I was working 70+ hours it still usually felt better than med school because I'm actually getting to have patients and be an actual doctor now. There's still all the same time management struggles (though it varies depending on rotation), but a lot of the social/financial/test stress is gone, so that has improved my QoL a lot.

Just because you can afford a McLaren and an R8 and a vacation house doesn’t mean it’s a great idea.

Yea, guess I'll just have to settle for that Mercedes then...

 

[NickNaylor]

I will be completing residency in <3 months and joining my institution as faculty.

The reality is that I see very little changing. Yes, I will be making more money - a lot more, really - but that's about it. In academia, there is still the slight pressure to be academically productive (write papers, present at conferences, etc.) if you want to advance and be promoted, so that isn't going away. There is still oversight, feedback, etc. etc. like you receive as a medical student and resident, but the focus is different.

I'm most looking forward to having a job that I expect I will really enjoy and is the type of work that I really want to do. I like nearly all of the work in my specialty and have, on the whole, enjoyed much of my time in residency, but it'll be nice to stop the crazy life that is constantly rotating and moving from service to service.

My wife and I are splurging a bit and taking a ~2-week trip to Japan right after I finish. We plopped down some significant cash to fly business class and are staying at some nice hotels. It's nice being able to do that and not have to worry all that much about the financial ramifications.

I imagine things would be much more different if I chose a different path (e.g., community private practice), but given that I'm going to be at the same institution largely doing similar work to what I'm doing now, I don't expect my life to change all that dramatically. Even the hours I'm working now will be somewhat similar as I'm going to be working more to make more money and pay off my educational debt. But on the plus side, I'll at least be getting paid more to do it.

 

[iqe2010]

I’m a non-trad, so I won’t be done with med school + residency until I’m in my mid-30s. I certainly didn’t expect this but things happen and we have to roll with the punches. I think being in your 30s is still relatively young.

One of the best pieces of advice I’ve read on SDN is that no matter what stage of training you’re in (pre med/med/residency) it’s important to find the time to do things you enjoy so you stay sane.

For me, I really enjoy lifting weights/fitness and cooking/finding new recipes to try out. I hope to still do these things while I’m in the trenches.

I do look forward to financial independence, treating patients, etc. One day..

 

[LookForZebras]

It's great to have a "regular" job and a regular salary coming in! Definitely a nice change after so many years of being a student. I certainly miss being a student from time to time. One aspect that I miss is always being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, if you will. If you have a course you hate, you can stick it out through the end of the semester. Or you're sick of where you're living, but you know it will only be another year or two until you graduate and can move. Once you have regular job, it's up to your own initiative to make the changes necessary to be truly happy.

 

[Neuro244]

The main problem with life after residency is that you are no longer young

One of the truest quotes I've ever read on SDN....so true that it compelled me to comment on it!

 

[sargon2123]

Would you all recommend to not bank on attending life for fulfillment, and instead make the most out of your med school/residency years? In high school I pretty much over-studied, so I did more of a balancing act in college. I’d like to keep that up, as I’ve heard that a lot of doctors are bitter about wasting more of their youth than they could have.

 

[Chibucks15]

Would you all recommend to not bank on attending life for fulfillment, and instead make the most out of your med school/residency years? In high school I pretty much over-studied, so I did more of a balancing act in college. I’d like to keep that up, as I’ve heard that a lot of doctors are bitter about wasting more of their youth than they could have.

It all depends on your goals. I found out early on in med school that I would be average. And it would require me to go absolutely crazy to move up in ranks. Since I’m not trying to do anything competitive, I’m fine and spend extra time with family and friends.

I’m a big believer in not letting medicine control you more than it already has to. It’s a damn good job, but it’s still a job

 

[Angus Avagadro]

It all depends on your goals. I found out early on in med school that I would be average. And it would require me to go absolutely crazy to move up in ranks. Since I’m not trying to do anything competitive, I’m fine and spend extra time with family and friends.

I’m a big believer in not letting medicine control you more than it already has to. It’s a damn good job, but it’s still a job

As long as you do a damn good job. Otherwise you wont be my doctor, maybe for my Morher in Law?

 

[Chibucks15]

As long as you do a damn good job. Otherwise you wont be my doctor, maybe for my Morher in Law?

No of course don’t blow it off and do well but don’t work yourself to madness is my main point

 

[DJay4534533]

The best thing you can do is to pay off your debt aggressively. How aggressively is up to you, but there’s something to be said for being debt free. The only debt I have is a mortgage that I have a lot of equity in. The second best thing you can do is to continue to live well below your means. Just because you can afford a McLaren and an R8 and a vacation house doesn’t mean it’s a great idea. I like to say that the Jones’s need to keep up with me, they just don’t know it. Stealthy wealthy is the best. It’s very freeing. I could sell my house, move anywhere, retire early, etc. When the time is right, consider investing in things that will bring you passive income. Then you’re really set.

But what if they forgive student loan debt in the next decade or so?

 

[Chibucks15]

But what if they forgive student loan debt in the next decade or so?

You really think you can count on the government to freely give away money and not get paid back? Cmon now. Even if a candidate uses that as a campaign promise there’s no way in hell it actually passes

 

[siliso]

Then maybe you’ll feel like a damn fool having flushed your money down the toilet. But, you’ll still be debt free...just so will everyone else be.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

One of the truest quotes I've ever read on SDN....so true that it compelled me to comment on it!

Which is why not spending money on something you want now isn't always wise. Health can go downhill after 50.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Would you all recommend to not bank on attending life for fulfillment, and instead make the most out of your med school/residency years? In high school I pretty much over-studied, so I did more of a balancing act in college. I’d like to keep that up, as I’ve heard that a lot of doctors are bitter about wasting more of their youth than they could have.

1000000%.
Do not wait until you're an attending to have fun.

Physical fitness? Can slowly decline post age 30, even if you're a legit athlete.
Partying? Mostly declines after mid to late 20s, if even that far.
Social circles? Shrinks the further you move from school.
Dating? Total quality options dramatically lessen as you approach 30, usually even earlier.

The only thing that improves with age is finances/stability. Having careless fun gets harder and harder. Enjoy the time you have and don't defer.

 

[Splenda88]

1000000%.
Do not wait until you're an attending to have fun.

Physical fitness? Can slowly decline post age 30, even if you're a legit athlete.
Partying? Mostly declines after mid to late 20s, if even that far.
Social circles? Shrinks the further you move from school.
Dating? Total quality options dramatically lessen as you approach 30, usually even earlier.

The only thing that improves with age is finances/stability. Having careless fun gets harder and harder. Enjoy the time you have and don't defer.

No wonder I can't get these young attractive nurses on my side 😛 ...

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

No wonder I can't get these young attractive nurses on my side 😛 ...

Well I mean as you move past early 20s, people are in relationships/married. Just a numbers thing.

 

[IlDestriero]

But what if they forgive student loan debt in the next decade or so?

People betting that the .gov will forgive the huge debts of professionals earning 4-10+ times the average family income are delusional. When these handouts become a significant cost, and they will, the first thing they will do is put in income based limits. If you’re making 400k why do you need the government to pay your bills? These are programs for teachers, etc. It’s a questionable long term bet.