Life as a surgeon????

[murcielagoman]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about becoming a surgeon (especially an anesthesiologist) and I was just wondering if you guys could just tell me about your work lives, hours per week, salary, percent of time on travel, required education, skills, what it takes to succeed etc. and anything else you guys think is special about being a surgeon.

Would appreciate it very much, thanks guys!

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[Arch Guillotti]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about becoming a surgeon (especially an anesthesiologist) and I was just wondering if you guys could just tell me about your work lives, hours per week, salary, percent of time on travel, required education, skills, what it takes to succeed etc. and anything else you guys think is special about being a surgeon.

Would appreciate it very much, thanks guys!

First of all I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the difference between an anesthesiologist and a surgeon, they are very different.

 

[Winged Scapula]

 

[beastmaster]

First of all I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the difference between an anesthesiologist and a surgeon, they are very different.

Yea. For starters, one is a pleasant, delightful, and humble healthcare provider. The other puts you to sleep.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

This threads potenitial just keeps getting exponentially better.

 

[Bluemirage]

Wow! I cannot believe a student at premed level can be confused about the difference between a surgeon and an anesthesiologist! I think I knew the difference as early as the 4th grade. That is quite frightening.

 

[Consigliere]

Yea. For starters, one is a pleasant, delightful, and humble healthcare provider. The other puts you to sleep.

Indeed....your job is to figure out who is who.

 

[cchoukal]

Is it possible that the OP is from a foreign country where, historically, anesthesiologists were people who trained in surgery but couldnt "cut it," so to speak? Didn't that used to happen here, too? Isn't that how Apgar became an anesthesiologist? FWIW, I'm a resident in anesthesiology and no disrespect intended. I just wonder if this isn't the OP's perception...

 

[smq123]

Is it possible that the OP is from a foreign country where, historically, anesthesiologists were people who trained in surgery but couldnt "cut it," so to speak? Didn't that used to happen here, too? Isn't that how Apgar became an anesthesiologist?

Apgar was a surgery intern with Allen Oldfather Whipple as her chairman (the guy who developed the Whipple operation for pancreatic cancer). He apparently thought that she was an excellent surgery resident, but back then it was difficult for women to advance in the very male-dominated field of surgery - they were rarely promoted over their male colleagues, and had trouble maintaining successful surgical practices. Plus, it was the great depression, and everyone (even a lot of male surgeons) were going broke. He recommended that she pursue the relatively new field of anesthesiology instead.

 

[dhb]

anything else you guys think is special about being a surgeon.

Being an a..hole ... i think you should become a surgeon bathombre

 

[darkmansaad]

surgeons are very funny individuals with witty sayings like "all bleeding stops....eventually"

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Apgar was a surgery intern with Allen Oldfather Whipple as her chairman (the guy who developed the Whipple operation for pancreatic cancer). He apparently thought that she was an excellent surgery resident, but back then it was difficult for women to advance in the very male-dominated field of surgery - they were rarely promoted over their male colleagues, and had trouble maintaining successful surgical practices. Plus, it was the great depression, and everyone (even a lot of male surgeons) were going broke. He recommended that she pursue the relatively new field of anesthesiology instead.

Look at you, smq, all up on the P&S lore!

Virginia Apgar was an amazing physician, the first fully tenured female faculty member at Columbia, and she basically founded the entire field of neonatology.

Murcielagoman, on the other hand, is hopefully sporting an APGAR of <6 to explain how he could confuse the Captain of the Ship with the guy shoveling coal in the furnace.

 

[lushmd]

Murcielagoman, on the other hand, is hopefully sporting an APGAR of <6 to explain how he could confuse the Captain of the Ship with the guy shoveling coal in the furnace.

And you can't be too far behind posting this BS in the gas forums.

 

[leviathan]

This threads potenitial just keeps getting exponentially better.

 

[facted]

Yea. For starters, one is a pleasant, delightful, and humble healthcare provider. The other puts you to sleep.

Humble. That's just classic.

 

[Southpaw]

Look at you, smq, all up on the P&S lore!

Virginia Apgar was an amazing physician, the first fully tenured female faculty member at Columbia, and she basically founded the entire field of neonatology.

Murcielagoman, on the other hand, is hopefully sporting an APGAR of <6 to explain how he could confuse the Captain of the Ship with the guy shoveling coal in the furnace.

what's up with the disrespect from a couple of weak med students on the gas forum? Especially this one from the Britney Spears wannabe Boobjob doc? Do I sense some jealousy or just complete ignorance on the part of a few folks?

 

[smq123]

what's up with the disrespect from a couple of weak med students on the gas forum? Especially this one from the Britney Spears wannabe Boobjob doc? Do I sense some jealousy or just complete ignorance on the part of a few folks?

Hey. No need to get huffy and make fun of BlondeDocteur.

Is what she said REALLY that offensive and incorrect? I have a lot of respect for anesthesiologists, but they're really not the "captain of the ship" - they don't get sued if the patient has a complication, and they're not the one who gets called if the patient's wound dehisces or something.

And she never said that the "guy shoveling coal" was unimportant, or that they're weren't crucial to the operation of the ship.

 

[Southpaw]

Is what she said REALLY that offensive and incorrect? I have a lot of respect for anesthesiologists, but they're really not the "captain of the ship" - they don't get sued if the patient has a complication, and they're not the one who gets called if the patient's wound dehisces or something.

And she never said that the "guy shoveling coal" was unimportant, or that they're weren't crucial to the operation of the ship.

Good grief, no wonder laypeople lack understanding of our job. People in medicine can't even grasp it. We're not people shoveling coal in a furnace. We're not the captain of the ship, and it speaks to someone's hubris that such discussion is even necessary. And why in the world do you think anesthesiologists carry malpractice? I'm sure some of the attendings can give greater detail, but hell yeah they get sued for complications during surgery. Sure, we don't get sued if one of your retractors slices Big Red, or if the patient doesn't make it due to preventable complications directly caused by the surgery, but from what I've seen we get blamed for a TON of stuff that happens to the patient post-surgery.

Look, I have great respect for surgeons. But two med students, one of which you seem to respect, came into the anesthesiology forum and whether or not you want to admit it, in my mind greatly disrespected a whole specialty of fellow physicians. Am I overly sensitive? Sure. Do I care? Nope. I'm not going to throw the first punch, but I'm certainly not averse to getting my hands dirty.

Do what you love, and show respect for EVERYONE involved in the care of the patient, and EVERYONE will be the better for it.

 

[polkadotcap]

Seriously, guys, please take the time to speak with some of your surgical attendings and you'll quickly realize that they very much respect the need for a strong anesthesiologist to help them do their cases. We all work together, and fighting over "who is the captain" is really missing the whole point. When the ruptured AAA came back the other day you can bet there was no arguing about "the captain", the surgeon and the attending anesthesiologist were both over there looking at the scans and war-gaming together in the 5 minutes we had as he was coming upstairs. And you know what? The patient lived, due to the incredible teamwork of the surgical and anesthesia teams who kept that patient alive while the surgeon repaired the problem. These are things you do not appreciate as a medical student (I know I didn't), but as a resident, your worldview will completely change.

 

[KNC]

Last time I checked, the anesthesiologist keeps the patient alive while the surgeon does plenty of things that could kill the patient........And please, don't let the surgeon mess up, the "Captain" hat changes hands very quickly...

 

[ESU_MD]

Good anesthesia is just as important as good surgery. for a nice example, Come watch us come off pump on a routine (let alone complex) coronary bypass case. a good example of teamwork and reacting to physiology.

and yes the gas man gets sued too by the golddiggers... ever heard of intraop "awareness" or fake chronic pain from a supposed positioning injury?

 

[smq123]

Good grief, no wonder laypeople lack understanding of our job. People in medicine can't even grasp it. We're not people shoveling coal in a furnace. We're not the captain of the ship, and it speaks to someone's hubris that such discussion is even necessary. And why in the world do you think anesthesiologists carry malpractice?

Look, I have great respect for surgeons. But two med students, one of which you seem to respect, came into the anesthesiology forum and whether or not you want to admit it, in my mind greatly disrespected a whole specialty of fellow physicians. Am I overly sensitive? Sure. Do I care? Nope. I'm not going to throw the first punch, but I'm certainly not averse to getting my hands dirty.

I also have great respect for anesthesiologists. When the $hit hits the fan, they're usually the ones who get called.

But my point was that I think you misinterpreted BlondeDocteur's statements. I don't think she meant any disrespect towards anesthesiologists. Now, you may argue that she made an unclear comparison, or it was an unfortunate choice of words, but I don't think she meant any disrespect - and perhaps YOU were too sensitive and too eager to jump down her throat. Maybe it WAS "in your mind," and you didn't take it how it was intended. Hey, it's the internet, and things like that happen a lot.

Based on her prior posts that I have seen, she's always been pretty respectful and even-handed. I have no reason to think that she meant anything different this time.

 

[leviathan]

In my last ACLS course there were 3 surgeons who were taking the course for the first time in their 20-30 year careers. These guys have probably watched tens of thousands of inductions, yet couldn't even ventilate with a bag valve mask, or manage simple arrhythmias. I applaud them for taking the course, but at the same time wonder how they could know so little from the medical side of things!

 

[BLADEMDA]

In my last ACLS course there were 3 surgeons who were taking the course for the first time in their 20-30 year careers. These guys have probably watched tens of thousands of inductions, yet couldn't even ventilate with a bag valve mask, or manage simple arrhythmias. I applaud them for taking the course, but at the same time wonder how they could know so little from the medical side of things!

Cause we handle it.

 

[BubbleHead]

Look at you, smq, all up on the P&S lore!

Virginia Apgar was an amazing physician, the first fully tenured female faculty member at Columbia, and she basically founded the entire field of neonatology.

Murcielagoman, on the other hand, is hopefully sporting an APGAR of <6 to explain how he could confuse the Captain of the Ship with the guy shoveling coal in the furnace.
__________________
(2008-9) Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Department of Surgery

(2010) MD, Columbia University College of Physicians & Surgeons
(2005) MSc, University of Oxford
(2003) MSc, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine
(2002) B.A. French Literature, State U
(2002) B.S. Molecular Biology, State U

Dear Arsehole,

Coal is shoveled INTO the furnace, then burned IN the furnace. Nobody is IN the furnace shoveling anything, unless you're some sort of gaddamn facking superhero... is that what you were getting at Sunshine? Are Anesthesiologists Superheros in your mind that save the ship when the Wanker of a Captain runs her into an iceberg! Hell yes, I think you're right on the money honey, nice work!


French Lit??? Really??? LMFAO

 

[Planktonmd]

I don't think it is of any significance what a surgery resident or a junior surgeon thinks of our specialty.
We are there for 2 reasons:
1- Make money
2- Keep the patient alive
We are not there to play God or to pretend that we walk on water, there are other specialties that master these things.
I don't care if someone else in the OR plays captain as long as at the end of day I get paid more and I get to go home and have a life.

 

[dfk]

I also have great respect for anesthesiologists. When the $hit hits the fan, they're usually the ones who get called.

But my point was that I think you misinterpreted BlondeDocteur's statements. I don't think she meant any disrespect towards anesthesiologists. Now, you may argue that she made an unclear comparison, or it was an unfortunate choice of words, but I don't think she meant any disrespect - and perhaps YOU were too sensitive and too eager to jump down her throat. Maybe it WAS "in your mind," and you didn't take it how it was intended. Hey, it's the internet, and things like that happen a lot.

Based on her prior posts that I have seen, she's always been pretty respectful and even-handed. I have no reason to think that she meant anything different this time.

don't worry about it smq, southpaw's a med student too. it gets confusing very easily.

 

[Southpaw]

don't worry about it smq, southpaw's a med student too. it gets confusing very easily.

It's clearly posted in my status. Additionally, that was never in question and never part of the conversation so I'm clueless as to your need to point that out. Do you feel that somehow my point is lessened since I'm a medical student?

However, your status has never been on display or part of any of your posts so it can certainly be confusing as to who you are.

 

[dfk]

It's clearly posted in my status. Additionally, that was never in question and never part of the conversation so I'm clueless as to your need to point that out. Do you feel that somehow my point is lessened since I'm a medical student?

However, your status has never been on display or part of any of your posts so it can certainly be confusing as to who you are.

hey, i don't have a problem with my identification. CRNA here. what i was referring to was your previous post and you including the "we" type statements regarding malpractice/insurance/life of/etc... so, yea, i have a problem with someone who is not in the direct business, affected personally, etc.. as someone who can speak directly on the matter.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

don't worry about it smq, southpaw's a med student too. it gets confusing very easily.

I would strongly advise you to avoid quarreling and stirring things up with members of this board who are medical students and doctors.

If you know what's good for you.

 

[dfk]

I would strongly advise you to avoid quarreling and stirring things up with members of this board who are medical students and doctors.

If you know what's good for you.

quarreling? nah. was i wrong in my assessment though? nah. that was my point.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

quarreling? nah. was i wrong in my assessment though? nah. that was my point.

Nurse, let it go because you are pushing it.

 

[AnesthesiaKing]

Why do anesthesiologists even care? Let them have "captain of the ship". With all the endless crap they have to go through, we should at least give them that! We work less and get payed more.


http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

One needs to compare the Anesthesiology Vs. The General Surgery salary to see why them surgeons are just so bitter.

 

[filter07]

I used to be a lot more arrogant before I started residency. A few codes, a few crashing patients, and I learned very quickly to appreciate the knowledge and skill of an anesthesiologist. It's true that anesthesiologists don't have much ownership of a patient, and that is mostly by design, but when someone is in distress, it doesn't matter who's patient it is.

Surgery is not what it used to be. A lot of the stereotypes of surgery are going away fast. We have 80 hour limits, we have to be nice(r) to each other, and we just aren't as awesome as the last generation of surgeons. (I think this is true to various extent with all of medicine.) With those changes, a lot of the attitude is diminished, with the most vocal holdouts being the inexperienced medical students trying to ride on the coattails of a glorified past.

 

[Lonestar]

Filter07 has some very good points.

You boys should listen to this person. Some of you may learn something like professionalism.

Now, let me play my video game while the surgeon is saving the day downstairs fighting a malicious gallbladder. Alllrigght!!!!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Methinks the ladies doth protest too much!

Lesson learned: no ribbing in anesthesia-land. I expected some business about the 'blood-brain barrier' and suchlike in return, which would be a nice change from the hack conservative screeds which usually dominate this forum. Quel dommage.

To soothe ruffled feathers: my father was once a professor of anesthesia, my brother is going into it, I respect the required knowledge of physiology and pharmacology immensely, and look forward to a long and productive relationship with future colleagues in my career in peds recon.

 

[BubbleHead]

Methinks the ladies doth protest too much!

Lesson learned: no ribbing in anesthesia-land. I expected some business about the 'blood-brain barrier' and suchlike in return, which would be a nice change from the hack conservative screeds which usually dominate this forum. Quel dommage.

To soothe ruffled feathers: my father was once a professor of anesthesia, my brother is going into it, I respect the required knowledge of physiology and pharmacology immensely, and look forward to a long and productive relationship with future colleagues in my career in peds recon.

French Lit... really?!

 

[Planktonmd]

Methinks the ladies doth protest too much!

Lesson learned: no ribbing in anesthesia-land. I expected some business about the 'blood-brain barrier' and suchlike in return, which would be a nice change from the hack conservative screeds which usually dominate this forum. Quel dommage.

To soothe ruffled feathers: my father was once a professor of anesthesia, my brother is going into it, I respect the required knowledge of physiology and pharmacology immensely, and look forward to a long and productive relationship with future colleagues in my career in peds recon.

Alors ma petite docteur, Je viens de réaliser que tu es une étudiante, même pas une interne?
Mais tu parles déjà comme un chirurgien, Chapeau!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

On ne peut qu'essayer.

Comme atteste l'énumération pleine qui se sert comme ma <<signature>>, je ne cache rien vis-à-vis de mon niveau.

Et je ne suis pas arrivée a comprendre pourquoi Bubblehead (quel nom apropros!) se moque des qualifications de quelqu'un qui a réalisé deux baccélaureats et deuxmaîtrises,tout en apprennant une langue étrangère.

 

[Planktonmd]

On ne peut qu'essayer.

Comme atteste l'énumération pleine qui se sert comme ma <<signature>>, je ne cache rien vis-à-vis de mon niveau.

Et je ne suis pas arrivée a comprendre pourquoi Bubblehead (quel nom apropros!) se moque des qualifications de quelqu'un qui a réalisé deux baccélaureats et deuxmaîtrises,tout en apprennant une langue étrangère.

Je n'ai pas dit que tu as cache ton niveau, J'ai dit que j'ai pense que tu étais déjà une chirurgienne.
A toute façon Je n'ai que de l'admiration pour ceux qui essayent d'apprendre une langue étrangère, spécialement la langue française.
Chapeau encore une fois.

 

[BubbleHead]

On ne peut qu'essayer.

Comme atteste l'énumération pleine qui se sert comme ma <<signature>>, je ne cache rien vis-à-vis de mon niveau.

Et je ne suis pas arrivée a comprendre pourquoi Bubblehead (quel nom apropros!) se moque des qualifications de quelqu'un qui a réalisé deux baccélaureats et deuxmaîtrises,tout en apprennant une langue étrangère.

Medical Students...