Lifestyle....Effort....Hardwork....

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harkkam

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To be honest I am confused to what is required and needed to get through medical school and residency and what my personal life is going to look like.

I'll be completely honest and come out and say that I need to know how much work is demanded of me before I make a commitment to something that I will regret later.

Those of you who are questioning my work ethic...etc....can stfu....I dont need any speeches about how effortless and self sacrifising person you have to be to be a doctor and that I am being selfish, everybody is selfish to some extent. SO let me make it clear, I want to KNOW how many hours I will need to work, study put in w/e and how many hours I will have to work to enjoy the fruits of my labor and enjoy my life aside from medicine. Those of you who cant contemplate a person intrested in himself before his career need not respond either.

That was my disclaimer because everytime I try to get useful information from people on this board some guy will make a comment about my ethic or my questions. I am a college UG, so naturally I want to know what Im getting myself into.

Now correct me if I am wrong.

As a student in UG (undergrad) how much studying and free time I have is dependent on ME. Meaning that If I can get drunk every weekend and go to clubs and score 100's on tests that its more power to me, or on the other hand I might need to study 24/7 for the 1 and a half years of UG I have left.

Right now I need to take most of the prerequisites.

The next step is Medical school, (provided I get in).....

This is where the questioning begins.
As a medical student in the first two years, obviously the courses you took in UG where much easier but how much easier?....Will i still have the weekends to party with my friends or maybe during the week to just go see a friend.

Or will It be so difficult that the second class ends suppose 3:00 pm that I take the car home sit down come in, grab something to eat and open the book at my table and read till 9:00 pm...rinse repeat this M-F.

Basically whats my lifestyle going to look like?

Will I have time to go to clubs?
Will I have time to drink and pass out on my friends couch?
Will I have time to date a girl?
Will I have time to go to a beach with my friends and enjoy the sun?
Will I have time to go on a ski trip on a weekend?
Will I have time to go on a night on the town?

Im sure the answer to this question is...yes but depending on your study habits....that if you study hard that you can have a day to yourself. But my question is, can this leisure time be obtained easily...in other words, can I go out to a club friday and get drunk or stay out till 5 in the morning and then crash the next day and not have to worry insanely about the time I wasted or have left.

Again it depends on the person but...what is life going to be because right now my life is EASY. I can party anyday of the week and even miss classes and get A's but there Liberal arts courses so naturally A's are easy.


The same question applies to your clinical rotations and residency.

I know that if your working 45 hours a week that on the weekend and after work you can always hit the town and chill and relax, go to a party or w/e. Thought that depends on your speciality if your in patient or out patient.
 
Typically I'd respond with "if you're not cut out for it, don't do it". Sounds like you know that. OK...

If you are doing well in UG, and feel confident that you will do well in Med school, then the answer depends on your choice of specialty. Unless you want an ultra-competitive spot in Derm/Plastics/Ortho/Rads, you can make your med school life as easy as you want it to be, within reason. You won't be AOA, but frankly that doesn't matter unless you are interested in one of the aforementioned choices. So, yes, you will have to study at least a little every night. But you will also be able to kill your liver every weekend. And depending on the test schedule for your school, there will be entire weekends where you may not touch a book.

If life is more important than your performance in Med school, then you can make that happen. You'll have to sacrifice a little more during third year, though.

On to residency. Again, it depends on your choices. Does a name matter? Then you'll be scutted out for a few years at a competitive residency at a big namme school, for a diploma you can proudly hang on your wall. Otherwise, pick an easier residency, at a community-based hospital, and spend your weekends at home with your family.

Now you're a physician. Again, if you choose to enjoy life over work, you can. Pick a specialty that doesn't require call, or join a group that doesn't take call. Move to a small town, or have a small practice in a big town. Most importantly, though, you will need to find a specialty that will allow this. It is likely to be a specialty with an average or less-than salary. But you're here to enjoy life, not eimbursement, right?

Along the way, hopefully something will light your fire. Something that will make you want to spend more hours learning, make you realize it's not a bad thing to spend a few extra hours at work if it means another patient will live a longer life. Either way, no matter what you decide, just always put the patients' interests first. If you can manage to do that while maintaining the life you desire at home, then great. If it compromises your ability to properly care for your patients, it's time to find something you truly want to do, which probably isn't medicine.
 
Those of you who are questioning my work ethic...etc....can stfu....I dont need any speeches about how effortless and self sacrifising person you have to be to be a doctor and that I am being selfish, everybody is selfish to some extent. SO let me make it clear, I want to KNOW how many hours I will need to work, study put in w/e and how many hours I will have to work to enjoy the fruits of my labor and enjoy my life aside from medicine. Those of you who cant contemplate a person intrested in himself before his career need not respond either.

You sure have a lot of specific demands for someone who is asking for a favour (of playing 20 questions with you).

Good luck getting quality responses to your many questions
 
Hi, even though med school is hard and a lot of work, you will still have time to hang out. Its just that it isnt as much as you may be used to. All depends on how many exams you will have in a given semester, which courses and practicals you have etc. During Anatomy, which was in the first semester, I didnt study every day and was still able to go out from time to time. So you have to make decisions, when you will go out, who you will hang out with, whats the best use of your free time, etc. I will admit though, it does suck to turn down invitations to go out and party, go on weekend trips, visit friends in other cities etc because you have to study. And if your friends arent in med school they wont really understand what it means to study so much. Another thing that is rough is giving up summer breaks to do practicals, rotations, etc. But I think once you are in the situation and have the pressure on you, most people can rise to the occasion and pull it off. Thousands of students do it every year, you can too.
 
Along the way, hopefully something will light your fire. Something that will make you want to spend more hours learning, make you realize it's not a bad thing to spend a few extra hours at work if it means another patient will live a longer life. Either way, no matter what you decide, just always put the patients' interests first. If you can manage to do that while maintaining the life you desire at home, then great. If it compromises your ability to properly care for your patients, it's time to find something you truly want to do, which probably isn't medicine.

Sage advice above. May I further add that getting older does funny things to you. Not too long ago I was an undergrad pretty similar to you (the OP). Throughout medical school things get progressively more difficult and time-consuming; as such, I didn't really realize that my social life was on life support until one day I woke up and thought, "hmmm, I haven't had a beer in a month". Don't worry though, because then 4th year comes along and it's almost like being an undergrad again.

You'll find all kinds in medical school, so if partying every weekend is your thing then you'll probably find a crowd (albeit a relatively small one) for you. Residency is a little bit of a different animal. Sure, you can choose a more relaxed specialty at a small hospital, but by then your priorities may be different. I would suggest to not burn any bridges. That is, don't go nuts the first two years of medical school and then realize one day late in 3rd year that you want to be a dermatologist. By then it'll be too late and you'll be unhappy schlepping it as an FP for the rest of your life.
 
You sure have a lot of specific demands for someone who is asking for a favour (of playing 20 questions with you).

Good luck getting quality responses to your many questions

I am totally down with the OP and I completely understand his point of view. If I had known how much I would hate call, getting up ridiculously early, and staying late for no good reason I would never have gone to medical school. It's not that I don't like being a doctor, I certainly do, it's just that I miss things like automatically getting weekends off, regular work hours, and knowing, within reason, when I was going home in the evening.

Not to mention that for two years before I went to medical school a I was self-employed and really set my own hours.

It is not that fantastic a career. You will have days when you wake up and say, "Man, this job blows."
 
You can do all that stuff in med school's 1st and 2nd years but you'll be inscreasingly busy in 3rd, 4th, and then residency years.
 
Thanks for the responses..they were better than I expected.


I am totally down with the OP and I completely understand his point of view. If I had known how much I would hate call, getting up ridiculously early, and staying late for no good reason I would never have gone to medical school. It's not that I don't like being a doctor, I certainly do, it's just that I miss things like automatically getting weekends off, regular work hours, and knowing, within reason, when I was going home in the evening.

Not to mention that for two years before I went to medical school a I was self-employed and really set my own hours.

It is not that fantastic a career. You will have days when you wake up and say, "Man, this job blows."

EXACLTY....I love medicine and I might find a passion and spending hours at work might seem like fun. But again there are alwas negative things that we must consider to make a wiser choice.

I know the good side....the money...the fame..the satisfaction. Wnen I mean fame I dont mean celb status, just the gleam in peoples eye when you tell them your a doc. Money...no not millions but over 150k when most american make way lesser....its money if you look at it that way. Satisfaction...well that depends on you.

So in medical school.....the first two years are like UG.....9-3 class schedule studying..partying....etc. But then the last two years you work rotations and are on call just as if you where in a residency except your not getting paid right?

Residency is something else. When you guys talk about picking a specialty that makes decent bank, obviously the work hours increase accordingly. What residencies would let me work a 45 hours a week and get two days off during the week and be on call once a week. I mean Im not looking to make 300k that anesthesiogists make or what surgeons make. Something along the lines of 180k-200k will be fine for me if that means a more balanced lifestyle.

Im just looking for information right now so that I know that if I decide to go to medical school that the oppurtunity to sacrifice money for better hours is possible, but then I might not like the specialty that offers it and I might take the hard one. But I want to take everything into consideration.

What is a week of residency like.....how early do you have to wake up....how many hours do you have to work?
 
Thanks for the responses..they were better than I expected.




EXACLTY....I love medicine and I might find a passion and spending hours at work might seem like fun. But again there are alwas negative things that we must consider to make a wiser choice.

I know the good side....the money...the fame..the satisfaction. Wnen I mean fame I dont mean celb status, just the gleam in peoples eye when you tell them your a doc. Money...no not millions but over 150k when most american make way lesser....its money if you look at it that way. Satisfaction...well that depends on you.

So in medical school.....the first two years are like UG.....9-3 class schedule studying..partying....etc. But then the last two years you work rotations and are on call just as if you where in a residency except your not getting paid right?

Residency is something else. When you guys talk about picking a specialty that makes decent bank, obviously the work hours increase accordingly. What residencies would let me work a 45 hours a week and get two days off during the week and be on call once a week. I mean Im not looking to make 300k that anesthesiogists make or what surgeons make. Something along the lines of 180k-200k will be fine for me if that means a more balanced lifestyle.

Im just looking for information right now so that I know that if I decide to go to medical school that the oppurtunity to sacrifice money for better hours is possible, but then I might not like the specialty that offers it and I might take the hard one. But I want to take everything into consideration.

What is a week of residency like.....how early do you have to wake up....how many hours do you have to work?


Look into Emergency Med residencies, they do shiftwork so the schedule is more manageable, at least from what I've heard.
 
You can slack off all you want if you want a residency in PM&R.
 
Thanks for the responses..they were better than I expected.




EXACLTY....I love medicine and I might find a passion and spending hours at work might seem like fun. But again there are alwas negative things that we must consider to make a wiser choice.

I know the good side....the money...the fame..the satisfaction. Wnen I mean fame I dont mean celb status, just the gleam in peoples eye when you tell them your a doc. Money...no not millions but over 150k when most american make way lesser....its money if you look at it that way. Satisfaction...well that depends on you.

So in medical school.....the first two years are like UG.....9-3 class schedule studying..partying....etc. But then the last two years you work rotations and are on call just as if you where in a residency except your not getting paid right?

Residency is something else. When you guys talk about picking a specialty that makes decent bank, obviously the work hours increase accordingly. What residencies would let me work a 45 hours a week and get two days off during the week and be on call once a week. I mean Im not looking to make 300k that anesthesiogists make or what surgeons make. Something along the lines of 180k-200k will be fine for me if that means a more balanced lifestyle.

Im just looking for information right now so that I know that if I decide to go to medical school that the oppurtunity to sacrifice money for better hours is possible, but then I might not like the specialty that offers it and I might take the hard one. But I want to take everything into consideration.

What is a week of residency like.....how early do you have to wake up....how many hours do you have to work?

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So in medical school.....the first two years are like UG.....9-3 class schedule studying..partying....etc. But then the last two years you work rotations and are on call just as if you where in a residency except your not getting paid right?

Residency is something else. When you guys talk about picking a specialty that makes decent bank, obviously the work hours increase accordingly. What residencies would let me work a 45 hours a week and get two days off during the week and be on call once a week. I mean Im not looking to make 300k that anesthesiogists make or what surgeons make. Something along the lines of 180k-200k will be fine for me if that means a more balanced lifestyle.

Im just looking for information right now so that I know that if I decide to go to medical school that the oppurtunity to sacrifice money for better hours is possible, but then I might not like the specialty that offers it and I might take the hard one. But I want to take everything into consideration.

What is a week of residency like.....how early do you have to wake up....how many hours do you have to work?

Med school is certainly more time consuming than undergrad. I can say that I spend far more time studying than I did in undergrad - but we have some parties and get togethers (probably an average of 1-2 every 2 weeks or so) in addition to taking time to work out and hang out. I'm currently in a long distance relationship and I'm able to see my gf every few weeks which works out pretty well. As for classes, either you are brilliant and can get all A's with minimal studying, or your classes thus far have been easy and you're smarter than most your classmates - if the latter situation is the case, you'll likely find the workload in medical school to be more challenging.

On average, doctors just work more than in other career choices. By becoming a doctor you agree to put other people first which limits how much control you have over your own life. To quote a doctor I know "Once you put on the white coat, it really never comes off." Medicine is really a profession where you can't say I'm leaving work at work and home at home. There's nothing wrong with not wanting that responsibility, but you can't enter medicine with the expectation that you will be living a 9-5 lifestyle. The pressure only gets tougher until a number of years out of residency. Somehow, I was under the mistaken opinion that it all gets easier after med school - which is not true at all. I mean, I wouldn't have the same respect and reverence for MD's if they lived the same lifestyle as bankers - it's just an intrinsic characteristic of the profession. If you're not sure that it's for you, work for a few years and decide during that time - you'll get some life experience.
 
If you are doing well in UG, and feel confident that you will do well in Med school, then the answer depends on your choice of specialty. Unless you want an ultra-competitive spot in Derm/Plastics/Ortho/Rads, you can make your med school life as easy as you want it to be, within reason. You won't be AOA, but frankly that doesn't matter unless you are interested in one of the aforementioned choices. So, yes, you will have to study at least a little every night.

I won't rehash my many prior criticisms of the OP's focus on time committment in many other threads.
But I would qualify Bertelman's post by saying it depends a lot on the school you are going to and the kind of MED student you are. First, if you are at a place with full day classes and frequent tests, you will not be coming up for air as frequently as places with half day schedules and spaced out exams. Second, there are many many people who struggle in med school and have to put in enormous numbers of hours just to PASS, not to get the ultra competitive spots. This perhaps depends somewhat on the grading system of the school and how willing they are to fail people. It's not unheard of for people to have to retake courses at many places, and it's frequently not for lack of effort. Thus I suggest it is impossible for anyone to tell the OP how much time s/he will need to commit to med school ahead of time. You gauge how you are doing by your test results, ramping up or easing back accordingly. To assume you can coast through with minimal effort because someone else was able to or because you aren't shooting for a dream residency, can all too often land you a 5th year of med school.
First year is going to require significantly more effort than college. Second year is more time intense than first year for most people-- You know the ropes, and the info is more interesting, but you still have to log more time. Then all bets are off for rotations, and you will have no ability to set your hours.
Bottom line -- you will work hard and learn a lot.
 
So in medical school.....the first two years are like UG.....9-3 class schedule studying..partying....etc.

No - not right. The first two years are nothing like college for most. Most people treat the first two years like a full time job. You will have time for meals and some exercise/recreation each weekday, but otherwise most people do classes or studying the bulk of the rest of every weekday until they go to sleep. Then the majority of people use much of each weekend to review the material they covered the prior week. When a test is far away, you have more leeway with the weekend time, when a test is close, you have less. And med school classes may start earlier than 9 -- it's an early morning profession. You squeeze in fun where you can, but don't expect anything close to undergrad.
But again, this pretty average schedule depends on how well you are doing. Some strugglers have even less time than this, as do the more ambitious of the pack.
 
...Medicine is really a profession where you can't say I'm leaving work at work and home at home. There's nothing wrong with not wanting that responsibility, but you can't enter medicine with the expectation that you will be living a 9-5 lifestyle...

Except for Emergency Medicine. True, the hours are wierd but they are at least predictable. The tradeoff is that while you may put in a lot of hours, you put them in over a fewer number of days in the week and can get massive time off if that's your bag.

I am doing rotation in the ED next month and within reason, I can tell my wife when I'll be at work and when I'll be home.

But residency probably blows in whatever specialty you pick. Family Medicine, for example, has a reputation for being a very benign specialty once you get into practice but the residency is not, at least not intern year.

Maybe Optho and Derm have cushy residencies once you get past intern year but I can't think of any others.
 
...No - not right. The first two years are nothing like college for most. Most people treat the first two years like a full time job...

That's exactly right. And that is the best way to have a low-stress first and second year without turning into a jittery freak.
 
Good advice from everyone. I've started first year and while my problem is in how I study, now how much, I think it's good to be reminded that med school is hard work but that doesn't mean we put our lives on hold.

However, maybe I'm unique in that I spent a great deal of my time studying in college. My roommates were also premeds and we would spend the weekends and saturday and friday nights studying because we all had a lot of work to cover. I guess it varies from college to college and major to major, not to mention how much you study depends on what type of school you want to go to (my friends who attended the ivy league med schools tended to study a lot more to make that 4.0 GPA). Right now, the amount of time most people spend in studying is about the same as I had done in college. OTOH, my 'studying' in college consisted of doing a lot of coding (being a CS major), so I'm not used to sitting in front of a book for long periods of time. I should probably advise anyone entering med school to prepare to spend alot of time in front of a book, not necessarily a lot of time studying per se.
 
To the OP, another thing to think about, aside from the absolute quantity of time you will spend in hospitals and clinics, is the loss of control you'll have over your time. During your preclinical years, this doesn't really play out, but once you're on clinical rotations you'll find that someone else is telling you when you can come and go. If you're on call, it doesn't matter that it's your kids birthday. And it doesn't matter whether or not you're doing anything productive, whether you're learning anything. You might be kept just because the resident wants company. Later, you'll be a resident, and the loss of control becomes even more marked. Even attendings in some specialties can expect to get called in.

Best,
Anka
 
You're going to have to work hard. The VOLUME is a lot more than in undergrad. Difficulty, if you're fairly smart, is about the same... nothing too difficult to grasp really. You will have less time than you did in undergrad. However, I take breaks all the time... and yesterday, I didn't study a bit... but I do well on tests.

I think it's a question of how good a student you are.

Judging by your previous posts:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=4116089#post4116089

you have a 2.6 science and 3.0. That doesn't bode well for you at all in medical school. I wasn't motivated either in undergrad and didn't give a crap about the courses I was taking, yet I did reasonably well.

Do you have any proven history of working hard? Why don't you take the MCAT just so you can see what it's like to study for an exam and (let's hope) do well. In my opinion, in med school, I take the MCAT every few weeks (block exams)... that's just how it is. The questions are obviously a lot different, but the concept of studying hard for a big exam, then taking it, apply as well. You need to prove that you are cut out for this challenge. That's really why med schools like good GPA's and MCAT's -- a proven history of doing well in something which shows (to some extent) hard work.

You really can't have something for nothing. I would say I got by in the past due to natural ability, but med school has made me actually work hard.

Yes, I have time to do a whole lot of other crap (and as do a lot of med students), but don't expect to party every other night. In fact, I could do everything you have on your list and still do well. Fridays, Saturday nights are pretty much free for most people... except for maybe pre-exams.
 
Oh, and if I might make a suggestion, take all your science prereqs, but then don't give yourself a YEAR to study for the MCAT. Book a test date that's about 6-8 weeks away and just crunch towards it. Any longer than that, you forget what you'd previously learned and the benefit is negligible.
 
I'm a 4th year student. I advice u not to link your self with another job. u have to be only med student because med student has to study and study and study to be a good one.
 
I am totally down with the OP and I completely understand his point of view. If I had known how much I would hate call, getting up ridiculously early, and staying late for no good reason I would never have gone to medical school. It's not that I don't like being a doctor, I certainly do, it's just that I miss things like automatically getting weekends off, regular work hours, and knowing, within reason, when I was going home in the evening.

Not to mention that for two years before I went to medical school a I was self-employed and really set my own hours.

It is not that fantastic a career. You will have days when you wake up and say, "Man, this job blows."

this may all be true. but, one misconception that i often notice doctors have is that the grass is greener on the other side. but, it's just not true. there are many, many other careers that place very high demands on people. also, stress, working in the "after hours", and working on weekends is not unique to medicine.

i routinely see teachers spending 4-5 hours grading papers and preparing lesson plans when i'm at caribou studying. also, people in sales, law, and business owners often have trouble with "boundaries".
so, i'd just roll with it, and realize that given the demands of our society, it makes it all the more important to be doing what it is that you do enjoy.

panda, i'm not speaking directly to you, as i'm sure you know...
 
The same question applies to your clinical rotations and residency.

I know that if your working 45 hours a week that on the weekend and after work you can always hit the town and chill and relax, go to a party or w/e. Thought that depends on your speciality if your in patient or out patient.

I slacked throughout college (found it easy to just cram the night before and get A or sometimes Bs).. I got good enough grades to get into med school but no where near 4.0.. I did Ace the MCAT though...

However, right now in med school, I've decided to buckle down for 2 years. We have classes from 8am-4pm.. Afterwords, I watch ~30min of SportsCenter in the Student Lobby.. Talk to some Fellow Classmates.. and then back into seclusion.. I study til about 11pm.. Try to go to bed by midnight or 1am.. I do that seven days a week.. However, after huge exam weeks, I'll reward myself with like 3 days off by flyin back home and hanging out with old friends/family or fly to miami and lay on the beach..

I'll drink occasionally but after getting wasted 6 days out of the week in college, it was easy to see that drinking anywhere near wasted just nullifies my studying and makes me need to study more..

As for clubs, I guess I could fit them in on the weekend but you start to value your precious time.. I've actually tried to get into rock climbing as a fitness activity than spend it getting a beer belly.. Plus, if you REALLY think about it.. Where do you actually meet the best girls..

3rd and 4th year has been described as always being stuck.. You're always stuck somewhere.. stuck doing this.. stuck doing that.. late because your stuck..etc.. and when you get home after a long day on your feet.. you gotta study for your shelves.. and probably want to get OFF your feet.. not dance some more..

Residency.. The laws have changed.. The limit is now 80 hr work weeks.. Why did they do this? Because residents were expected to work more than that.. but now, it's pretty safe to say that they will get their moneys worth on you and you WILL be working 80 hr/wk

So.. expect the clubbing to drop for 4 yrs med school + at least 3 yrs residency.. If you are a normal college student graduating ~22 yrs of age.. You get to rejoin society as a 29 yr old.. (however, 200K in debt.. so you might want to put spending on 100$ bottles on hold for a while to so your money can GROW in interest vs be spend to make a club owner richer..)

My friend is an investment banker on wall st.. He makes tons more money to spend at clubs and on cars than me.. Here are some links of what i-bankers discuss:

http://gawker.com/news/thrillist/cant-buy-a-thrill-209835.php

http://bankersball.com

Enjoy!
 
this may all be true. but, one misconception that i often notice doctors have is that the grass is greener on the other side. but, it's just not true. there are many, many other careers that place very high demands on people. also, stress, working in the "after hours", and working on weekends is not unique to medicine.

i routinely see teachers spending 4-5 hours grading papers and preparing lesson plans when i'm at caribou studying. also, people in sales, law, and business owners often have trouble with "boundaries".
so, i'd just roll with it, and realize that given the demands of our society, it makes it all the more important to be doing what it is that you do enjoy.

panda, i'm not speaking directly to you, as i'm sure you know...


Yeah dude I am an engineer and last week I worked 70hrs. Now they say I have to be on call 1 night every week.
 
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