Lifestyle of a surgeon?

[yellowcocopuffs]

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Is it really as bad as everyone makes it seem?
Obviously, residency would be tough...
but anyone have any insight into this?
Of course I could google about it, but wanted
to hear from this community as well.

 

[aSagacious]

This particular topic has been discussed extensively in the forums. I suggest a quick forum search of 'surgery lifestyle'.

 

[Law2Doc]

Is it really as bad as everyone makes it seem?
Obviously, residency would be tough...
but anyone have any insight into this?
Of course I could google about it, but wanted
to hear from this community as well.

Surgeons have longer hours and are on call more than many other specialties. Your pager is going to go off at 3am throughout your career as a surgical attending far more than as, say, a rheumatologist or physiatrist. Not sure what you want us to say.

 

[chronicidal]

Is it really as bad as everyone makes it seem?
Obviously, residency would be tough...
but anyone have any insight into this?
Of course I could google about it, but wanted
to hear from this community as well.

It's hard to give insight to a non-insightful question. How bad has everyone made it seem? What do you mean by how residency is tough?

 

[link2swim06]

OP please note there is a huge lifestyle difference among fields.

The lifestyle difference between neurosurgery and urology is huge.

 

[NatrixCaelicola]

OP please note there is a huge lifestyle difference among fields.

The lifestyle difference between neurosurgery and urology is huge.

I agree that it's a hard question to answer when you really didn't ask anything... BUT the short answer is this.. I've shadowed many different surgeons from varying specialties, some are on call more than others (as someone said) and not always how you would think... the trauma surgeon while on call would work like 50-60 hours a week depending and 40 hours a week while not on call. That being said, the think that has always stuck with me is that all of them loved their jobs. I've had an uncountable number of doctors from the medical side of medicine (sounds funny but I hope you get the idea) that have told me I'm stupid to get into medicine and to get out before I get in... I've never had a surgeon say this.

 

[Law2Doc]

... I've had an uncountable number of doctors from the medical side of medicine (sounds funny but I hope you get the idea) that have told me I'm stupid to get into medicine and to get out before I get in... I've never had a surgeon say this.

I think you just don't know enough surgeons. Many will tell that while they "love" what they do a lot of the time, if they had it all to do over again they would choose something more lifestyle friendly because the life of a surgeon is too hard. During med school you will appreciate that the surgeon on call who was called in to do cases the prior night still stayed on to do cases the next 12 hour day because you don't get "post call" days as an attending. These guys top 100 hour weeks pretty regularly. A popular mantra when the pager goes off in the wee hours is, "that's what I signed on for". Don't kid yourself with posts one above in this thread suggesting that surgeons are working 40 hours per week. Usually it's 40 plus another unscheduled 50 of coming in from home.

 

[IMSingular]

... These guys top 100 hour weeks pretty regularly. A popular mantra when the pager goes off in the wee hours is, "that's what I signed on for". Don't kid yourself with posts one above in this thread suggesting that surgeons are working 40 hours per week. Usually it's 40 plus another unscheduled 50 of coming in from home.

Well the solution is to train more Surgeons and provide more facilities. Double the number of Surgeons; I suppose they will be happy with half the remuneration they get now when they work say 50 hours a week.

 

[YH5]

Well the solution is to train more Surgeons and provide more facilities. Double the number of Surgeons; I suppose they will be happy with half the remuneration they get now when they work say 50 hours a week.

I'm sure malpractice lawyers will enjoy doubling the number of surgeons and halving their skill and experience.

 

[SellerAl]

my dad is a surgeon and he goes to work very early but is home almost every night by 5 or 6, and doesn't work weekends too often.

 

[235009]

my dad is a surgeon and he goes to work very early but is home almost every night by 5 or 6, and doesn't work weekends too often.

out of curiosity ...what kind of surgeon?

also 5am to 5 or 6pm is a 12-13 hour day ....which is quite a long day. coming home at 6pm doesn't mean the same thing when you have to go to bed by 9pm

 

[twizzlers713]

Surgeons drive beat up SUV's and do lots of traveling. A favorite vacation spot is Australia, deserted, haunted islands are also acceptable

 

[writingmedicine]

Surgeons drive beat up SUV's and do lots of traveling. A favorite vacation spot is Australia, deserted, haunted islands are also acceptable

👍👍

 

[kkuhn]

Surgeons drive beat up SUV's and do lots of traveling. A favorite vacation spot is Australia, deserted, haunted islands are also acceptable

Haha, that's awesome.

Anyways, my dad is a surgeon in private practice. Seeing him, and his partners, I say: it depends. My dad loves to work and he gets tons of patients so he works all the time, often 14-hour days. He talks to patients on his cell phone on holidays, nights, weekends, anytime. He's 25ish years out of school, and he still has call every third weekend.

BUT some of his partners have set strict limits on how much they will work. They'll only take on so many cases, so many patients. And they can do that! So that's the good part.

Of course, this is only private practice, and really only after you've built up a pretty good referral base. I have no idea how life as a hospital employee works.

 

[45408]

Yes, it's hard.

 

[NatrixCaelicola]

Yeah, as I said, it depends on the surgeon...

Also, it seems that the culture of location depends. In Oregon we tend to promote healthy, balanced lives and this tends to leak into the work life. I can see how doctors woudln't be pressured to work 100 hours every week. It's just like how lawyers here have hour requirements that are MUCH lower than firms in other locations.


Summary: it depends on you, your specialty, and where you work.

 

[IMSingular]

One of freind's wife was a intern/resident in neuro surgeory in one of the hospitals in Chicago. She would be on 36 hour shifts, and used to be very tiered. Though most of the time was waiting rather than actual working it is insane to have such long shifts. It is very difficult to get good resting sleep.
I think this type of shifts were mostly for interns and residents. There was an article in Time/Newsweeek on this situation. Are such shifts still extant or they have changed the policy.

 

[Law2Doc]

One of freind's wife was a intern/resident in neuro surgeory in one of the hospitals in Chicago. She would be on 36 hour shifts, and used to be very tiered. Though most of the time was waiting rather than actual working it is insane to have such long shifts. It is very difficult to get good resting sleep.
I think this type of shifts were mostly for interns and residents. There was an article in Time/Newsweeek on this situation. Are such shifts still extant or they have changed the policy.

Well, the rule for interns/ residents has changed, and so programs in compliance can no longer work you this many hours in a row. Interns can only work 16 hours in a row, residents can only work 24. But the total number of hours a week has stayed the same which means you no longer get post call days and basically never get more than 4 Weekend days off a month. There are several threads in the residency boards discussing whether this is actually "better" for residents, but for surgery most think it probably isn't. And all bets off for attendings, who generally have no set hour caps and can do 40 hour shifts if they have to.

Good point above about the early hours surgeons work. The OR starts at 7 am most places, which means if you are going to see and round on patients beforehand, you probably start your day at the hospital at around 5 am, meaning you get up around 4 am (assuming a short commute) throughout
your career. So even if you get home for dinner each night, you probably are asleep by 9 each night.

As for generating more surgeons so everyone can work and earn less, I think nobody in the field would actually ever push for that. Also young surgeons have enough trouble in their training getting into enough cases as is, they wouldn't want to try to divide the pot among more residents and expect to be adequately trained. Thus programs like to run lean and mean.

 

[IMSingular]

Surgeries are generally scheduled early in the morning. I suppose that is because the patient is least likely to have full stumoch which is quite dangerous state to administer anesthetics. In a long duration surgery, some longer than a day, does the same team operates of there is change of team in the midst of surgery? Generally how long can a team work?

 

[DrBowtie]

Surgeries are generally scheduled early in the morning. I suppose that is because the patient is least likely to have full stumoch which is quite dangerous state to administer anesthetics. In a long duration surgery, some longer than a day, does the same team operates of there is change of team in the midst of surgery? Generally how long can a team work?

There aren't any rules for attendings. The techs and nurses will change over, but in the real world, they are your patient and you finish the operation.

That's the point that L2D is trying to get at. The idea of these artificial hour and shift restrictions don't exist in the real world and if a long case occurs overnight, you are still doing your normal operations or clinic the next day regardless of how long you have been awake.

 

[JESSFALLING]

If you're weighing lifestyle considerations the highest, then you should consider aiming to get matched into a specialty like ophthalmology which combines inpatient and outpatient work settings and generally doesn't required weekend or evening work unless you are on call and someone has a severe ocular emergency, which isn't overly common. Like ophthalmology, dermatology is apart of the "ROAD to happiness" for some of the same reasons (except most surgical work in Derm. is done in outpatient settings.) Both fields are competitive and you would have not guarantee of getting in, though, so you'd want a back-up.

You might also consider procedurally-oriented specialty like PM&R. They have great hours, decent pay, and good career options.

If you don't care if your patients are alive, pathology might be an interesting options for you to consider too.

 

[ESzczesniak]

Surgeons have longer hours and are on call more than many other specialties. Your pager is going to go off at 3am throughout your career as a surgical attending far more than as, say, a rheumatologist or physiatrist. Not sure what you want us to say.

I don't think I'd say surgeons are on call more than any other doctor. Specifics depend on your specialty, but the key is that surgical patients more often have emergent demands. Adjusting somebodies anti-hyperglycemics can almost always wait until the morning. A Gustillo 3C open tibia is going to drag vascular, plastic and orthopaedic surgeons in at 2 AM.

It's a bit rougher (not horrible though), but I'm an orthopaedic residnet and wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

[Guero]

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It's always nice to see an international perspective. (Y tu ingles es muy bueno. Donde lo aprendiste?)