Lifestyle

[Podfather]

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I have been part of and following another thread where income has been discussed. One thing that is apparent is that the common demoninator (no surprise) for success is hard work.

Many believe that Podiatry offers a lifestyle different that other medical professionals. The schools have touted less hours, more personal time, no call etc. I would argue that many of those who are successful have many of the same problems as any other branch of medicine. Balancing personal and practice time, stress, call etc. all can be daunting.

So let's hear from those in practice that are doing well financially. What is your typical work week? Do you take call frequently and what does that mean? How often are you working on the weekends? How does your practice and professional life affect personal/family time? If you make income from other activities (law cases, consulting, lecturing, etc.) how much time does this involve? For those involved in state/national organizations how much of a time commitment is there? Do you live a balanced life? What would you change? I'll tell my story later.

I think it's important for students and potential students to know that the profession is solid but they can not expect to succeed financially without the same time commitments as other medical specialties. This is not meant to be negative but rather informative......

 

[PADPM]

Great post.

I love when I read students, etc., that choose podiatry to be able to work less hours, etc. What a joke!

My work load is tremendous, and it's actually increased due to the fact that several of the hospitals where I'm on staff do not have residents. As a result, I have no ancillary "help", which means I have to do all my own consults, take care of in-patients, do my own admissions, my own surgical paperwork, etc.

Although our practice is pretty large, we also have to cover several offices and several hospitals.

My typical work week is as follows:

I am at the hospital by 6:30 am on Monday morning to do some consults and take care of in-patients, over-the-weekend admits, etc. (By the way, the hospital is 45 minutes away from my home). I then head over to one of our offices where I see patients until about 7 pm. I will see more patients that day than I believe I should.

Tuesday morning I am up at about 5 am to see patients at one of our offices that's about 1.5 hours from my home. I'll see patients there all day.

Wednesday I will see patients all morning and I'll be in the OR the remainder of the day.

Thursday I will treat patients starting at 7:30 am at an assisted living facility and treat wounds and do surgical consults, then get back to one of our offices and treat patients the remainder of the day and also perform surgical cases in the afternoon if my surgical schedule is busy.

On Friday, I'm up at 5 am again and back at the office 1.5 hours away from my home to treat patients.

My "on call" day each week is from 7 am Thursday to 7 am Friday. That means that I'm responsible for all hospital consults, all emergency surgical cases, all admissions and all in-patient visits at ALL hospitals, in addition to my regular schedule. Since I'm already booked all day Thursday and Friday, all this other stuff doesn't usually get started until Friday afternoon.

Each doctor works one Saturday per month, and is on call that corresponding weekend. Since we have multiple offices, more than one doctor works on Saturday, but only one is on call, so our weekend on call rotation changes.

And I forgot to add that every Wednesday at 7 am, we have a partners meeting to discuss issues, schedules, etc.

And of course this schedule doesn't include the extra time at the office to take care of problems and do all the ridiculous documentation that's needed.

Other than that, I sometimes actually have time to sleep, get to the gym, hit the soccer field and actually spend time with my family.

I'm sure that I missed a lot of hours and time in my schedule, but that's just a start!

I'm no longer directly involved with running a residency program, nor am I involved with any offices with my local division of the APMA, or ACFAS, ABPS, though I used to be very active with all of the above. However, my partners weren't always very happy about my "volunteering" time while they were busy working their tails off, and I can't blame them.

I do a fair amount of legal work, but almost always do that at night at home, since that's really the only time I have "free". I read it over while on the elliptical machine in my exercise room when I can't get to the gym, and dictate my reports the same way. Hey, you've got to utilize your time well.....it's better than watching TV!

I work hard and play hard. But my family is ALWAYS my priority. I don't think I ever missed one of my son's soccer games from 5-18 years of age (maybe some high school games, but none of his club team games) and was always at my daughter's sporting events. Now that my son's in college, I obviously can't make all his soccer games, but I still bust his chops.

So much for DPM's having an "easy" lifestyle and short hours. I certainly would like to cut back a few hours, and we've had a few associates who couldn't handle the pace, but wanted to make the big bucks. Unfortunately, they didn't realize that the big bucks didn't come by working 10-3.

 

[NatCh]

I will hazard a guess that I have the most lifestyle of anyone participating on this forum.

 

[PADPM]

NatCh,

You don't count. You are a hippy DPM!!! When I move out to the beautiful territory where you live, and get out of the "rat race", I'll also cut back and chill out a little.

And you've already admitted that your wife has a busy family practice. Does she bust your stones when you're out riding your bike and the rest of the world is tryin' to make a buck

 

[NatCh]

NatCh,

You don't count. You are a hippy DPM!!! When I move out to the beautiful territory where you live, and get out of the "rat race", I'll also cut back and chill out a little.

And you've already admitted that your wife has a busy family practice. Does she bust your stones when you're out riding your bike and the rest of the world is tryin' to make a buck

Haha!!! I know it's a tough job but someone's got to be me.

 

[Podfather]

Great post.

I love when I read students, etc., that choose podiatry to be able to work less hours, etc. What a joke!

My work load is tremendous, and it's actually increased due to the fact that several of the hospitals where I'm on staff do not have residents. As a result, I have no ancillary "help", which means I have to do all my own consults, take care of in-patients, do my own admissions, my own surgical paperwork, etc.

Although our practice is pretty large, we also have to cover several offices and several hospitals.

My typical work week is as follows:

I am at the hospital by 6:30 am on Monday morning to do some consults and take care of in-patients, over-the-weekend admits, etc. (By the way, the hospital is 45 minutes away from my home). I then head over to one of our offices where I see patients until about 7 pm. I will see more patients that day than I believe I should.

Tuesday morning I am up at about 5 am to see patients at one of our offices that's about 1.5 hours from my home. I'll see patients there all day.

Wednesday I will see patients all morning and I'll be in the OR the remainder of the day.

Thursday I will treat patients starting at 7:30 am at an assisted living facility and treat wounds and do surgical consults, then get back to one of our offices and treat patients the remainder of the day and also perform surgical cases in the afternoon if my surgical schedule is busy.

On Friday, I'm up at 5 am again and back at the office 1.5 hours away from my home to treat patients.

My "on call" day each week is from 7 am Thursday to 7 am Friday. That means that I'm responsible for all hospital consults, all emergency surgical cases, all admissions and all in-patient visits at ALL hospitals, in addition to my regular schedule. Since I'm already booked all day Thursday and Friday, all this other stuff doesn't usually get started until Friday afternoon.

Each doctor works one Saturday per month, and is on call that corresponding weekend. Since we have multiple offices, more than one doctor works on Saturday, but only one is on call, so our weekend on call rotation changes.

And I forgot to add that every Wednesday at 7 am, we have a partners meeting to discuss issues, schedules, etc.

And of course this schedule doesn't include the extra time at the office to take care of problems and do all the ridiculous documentation that's needed.

Other than that, I sometimes actually have time to sleep, get to the gym, hit the soccer field and actually spend time with my family.

I'm sure that I missed a lot of hours and time in my schedule, but that's just a start!

I'm no longer directly involved with running a residency program, nor am I involved with any offices with my local division of the APMA, or ACFAS, ABPS, though I used to be very active with all of the above. However, my partners weren't always very happy about my "volunteering" time while they were busy working their tails off, and I can't blame them.

I do a fair amount of legal work, but almost always do that at night at home, since that's really the only time I have "free". I read it over while on the elliptical machine in my exercise room when I can't get to the gym, and dictate my reports the same way. Hey, you've got to utilize your time well.....it's better than watching TV!

I work hard and play hard. But my family is ALWAYS my priority. I don't think I ever missed one of my son's soccer games from 5-18 years of age (maybe some high school games, but none of his club team games) and was always at my daughter's sporting events. Now that my son's in college, I obviously can't make all his soccer games, but I still bust his chops.

So much for DPM's having an "easy" lifestyle and short hours. I certainly would like to cut back a few hours, and we've had a few associates who couldn't handle the pace, but wanted to make the big bucks. Unfortunately, they didn't realize that the big bucks didn't come by working 10-3.

Between practice, training residents, state/national politics, activity in ACFAS/ABPS, law cases, lecturing, and hospital positions I am running like crazy. I have intentionally given lecture opportunities,position offers, and law cases to some of my friends and former residents in an attempt to slow down. Well it sounded good in theory.

Because of the above, I am working most weekends and travel an average of 2 and sometimes 3 weekends a month. I am only semi-complaining since it's the bed I made. In fact the profession has allowed me to travel the world and experience the profession from a national perspective.

Here is my advice. Set goals for your life and then be careful of the seduction of being wanted or given quasi-notoreity. I am not saying to not get involved in fact I encourage it. One of the reasons I still do some of the activities I am involved in is shortage of newer graduates who want to jump in. I have brought in scores of new people and have helped some of the "icons" who never want to reliquish the reins find the door. But we need more of you newbies to step up and lead.

As far as practice goes it's a business that also requires compassion and ethics. You will and should want to help out your patients, your partners, and your staff. There will be times when you will have to sacrifiice to succeed and help your patients. You have an obligation to stay current and pay your student loans.

Can you make it on a M-F, 9AM-3PM , weekends off, 4 weeks vacation practice? Sure but you can not expect the higher salaries, trust of referral sources, or offers for leadership roles.

I would suggest to work hard, get involved, but maintain balance without overkill. PADPM's statement about never missing a game is important.

One final note be realistic. There is no profession I know of that is easy and lucrative. Well at least legal ones LOL.

 

[Podmeister]

I’ve been practicing for 10 yrs in Los Angeles, and here’s my weekly work schedule:

Monday: up at 7am, drive 25 min to an office, work 8-12pm.
Tuesday: up at 7am, home visits/assisted living facilities 9-12pm.
Wednesday: up at 7am, drive 1 hr to an office, work 9-2pm.
Thursday: up at 7am, drive 1 hr to an office, work 9-1, surgery in the OR 2-5pm.
Friday: up at 7am, drive 15 min to the hospital clinic, work 1-4pm.
Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF

No calls.
No HMO or Medicaid patients.
Vacation: 4 weeks/yr. Travel abroad every other year.

 

[Podfather]

I’ve been practicing for 10 yrs in Los Angeles, and here’s my weekly work schedule:

Monday: up at 7am, drive 25 min to an office, work 8-12pm.
Tuesday: up at 7am, home visits/assisted living facilities 9-12pm.
Wednesday: up at 7am, drive 1 hr to an office, work 9-2pm.
Thursday: up at 7am, drive 1 hr to an office, work 9-1, surgery in the OR 2-5pm.
Friday: up at 7am, drive 15 min to the hospital clinic, work 1-4pm.
Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF

No calls.
No HMO or Medicaid patients.
Vacation: 4 weeks/yr. Travel abroad every other year.

Wow! Are you making a decent living? If so do you need an associate? What do you dofrom 7:15 AM until 1PM Fridays?

 

[PADPM]

Sorry, I simply can not fathom how anyone can truly make a decent living working 19 hours a week (not counting your OR time), unless patients are paying you large amounts of cash or you are filliing your day with large procedures.

If you are working only 3 hours on Tuesday, and that time is spent making home visits and visiting assisted living facilities, there is only a finite amount of income that can be generated in that time, between traveling from house to house, then to the assisted living facility, etc. I can't imagine that 3 hours can be extremely lucrative???

There's only so much you can earn/produce in a 19 hour work week. I worked 13 hours TODAY!!!

Additonally, with the hours you list, how do you treat "working people" who often can't come in during those hours? Our offices treat a tremendous amount of patients after 4 pm who work, but have great insurance and significant foot/ankle problems that need care.

 

[NatCh]

Sorry, I simply can not fathom how anyone can truly make a decent living working 19 hours a week (not counting your OR time), unless patients are paying you large amounts of cash or you are filliing your day with large procedures.

If you are working only 3 hours on Tuesday, and that time is spent making home visits and visiting assisted living facilities, there is only a finite amount of income that can be generated in that time, between traveling from house to house, then to the assisted living facility, etc. I can't imagine that 3 hours can be extremely lucrative???

There's only so much you can earn/produce in a 19 hour work week. I worked 13 hours TODAY!!!

Additonally, with the hours you list, how do you treat "working people" who often can't come in during those hours? Our offices treat a tremendous amount of patients after 4 pm who work, but have great insurance and significant foot/ankle problems that need care.

Jeez, my schedule is "lifestylier" than Podmeister's!

Monday: off
Tuesday: 9-12
Wednesday: 9-12, 1-5
Thursday: 9-12, 1-5
Friday: surgery
Sat/Sun: never!

Share office hours with Partners to cover the entire day every weekday.

Vacation: as much as I want, typically three to four weeks per year not counting CME trips (but as a business owner I feel it when I don't work).

No ER call. Share office call with two Partners, trading off weekly.

No nursing homes or inpatient consults.

No consulting or academic work outside of the practice.

Income: I'd tell all of you but PADPM would jump all over me if I did. Let's just say it's average for DPM's in Oregon.

We also have a retail sales.

Oh yes, I mustn't forget the foot scrub that I developed and sell (see pic) to the tune of a few million dollars per year 🙄.

Am I "successful?" You'll have to define the word for me please. Unless you're the richest guy in the world there's always going to be someone who makes more money than you. I know people who think that $50k/yr. is huge. I know people from billionaire families who must think any physician's income is cute. Is income the only measure of success?

It's a big mistake to measure one's own success using someone else's measuring stick.
.
.

 

[NatCh]

This newsletter came to my email tonight. I posted it in another thread on this forum but it seems to fit here too. I thought the main topics were very timely.

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[dyk343]

Income: Let's just say it's average for DPM's in Oregon.

.

Just curious and you dont have to answer this if you do not think its appropriate. Do your partners earn the "average income" for Oregon DPM's considering they are not business owners? And do they work the same hours as you? This could make a big difference in income.

 

[NatCh]

Just curious and you dont have to answer this if you do not think its appropriate. Do your partners earn the "average income" for Oregon DPM's considering they are not business owners?

All three of us are owners (hence "Partners"). I don't think I should comment on their income though.

 

[dyk343]

All three of us are owners (hence "Partners"). I don't think I should comment on their income though.

Thanks

 

[Podmeister]

Wow! Are you making a decent living? If so do you need an associate? What do you dofrom 7:15 AM until 1PM Fridays?

I am making a decent living although currently I'm not busy enough to hire an associate. It's 9am Friday morning and I'm just hanging out at home going over some paper work and getting stuff ready for my medical biller. I also have a inpatient consult so I will take off at 11am, see the consult, have lunch at the hospital cafeteria, and then off to the clinic 1-4.

Sorry, I simply can not fathom how anyone can truly make a decent living working 19 hours a week (not counting your OR time), unless patients are paying you large amounts of cash or you are filliing your day with large procedures.

No, I'm not doing large procedures or getting large cash payments.

If you are working only 3 hours on Tuesday, and that time is spent making home visits and visiting assisted living facilities, there is only a finite amount of income that can be generated in that time, between traveling from house to house, then to the assisted living facility, etc. I can't imagine that 3 hours can be extremely lucrative???

I normally see 5 home patients max or 10-12 patients max at the assisted living facilities in a 3 hr span. Each patient averages $100 so it's decent although nothing "extremely lucrative".

There's only so much you can earn/produce in a 19 hour work week. I worked 13 hours TODAY!!!

I wish I could be that busy but Los Angeles is quite saturated with well established practices that have been around 25-30 yrs. When I was a resident, I functioned more like an associate for a large podiatry practice that covers nearly the entire county and I was seeing on average 40-50 patients a day. Now that I'm on my own, I see around 50 patients...in a week. My 20 hr/wk schedule generates the same income, if not more, than someone working a 40 hr/wk for an HMO network like Kaiser Permanente, or an associate for a large podiatry practice like Dr. C. B. in Southern California.

Additonally, with the hours you list, how do you treat "working people" who often can't come in during those hours? Our offices treat a tremendous amount of patients after 4 pm who work, but have great insurance and significant foot/ankle problems that need care.

A major limiting factor of working in Los Angeles is the TRAFFIC and bumper to bumper rush hours. Since I have 45min-1hr commute in the morning, I usually leave early by 1-2pm to avoid the rush hours. Yes, I do miss out on the "working people" and as such, my patient population are 90% Medicare.

My work scenario is not uncommon and I have 8 classmates in the area who are in the same boat. Most work 3-4 half days, and use the other days to pursue personal hobbies such as biking, hiking, camping, taking guitar lessons, gambling at the casinos, etc. One guy picks up his kid everyday at 1pm and the teacher once asked him, "Are you a stay-at-home Dad?". Another guy kept falling behind on his home visit schedule because he's too busy training for so many bicycling races.

My Californian classmates are happy pursuing personal hobbies and making decent livings although nothing extremely lucrative.

 

[PADPM]

NatCH,

Don't get me wrong. I certainly don't measure success by how many patients are seen in a week or how many hours are worked weekly.

Additionally, I see you busted my stones that you couldn't reveal your income or I would jump all over you!! Obviously, you read my reply to diabeticfootdr. My reply to him was simply because I personally felt he was "bragging" and patting himself on the back, but that's a different story.

We all have our own reasons and goals. I would be very happy to cut back, but fortunately or unfortunately our practice has grown into a "monster". We have a huge amount of referring physicians who expect a lot of us, and request we see patients for urgencies, emergencies, etc. And we've spoiled them by accommodating their whims and needs.

It's Friday at 5 pm and I just got back from seeing our in house patients. The MRI report was not complete on one of our patients, but as I'm writing this I just received a call from the infectious disease doc who looked at the films and said the patient has osteo of the navicular and two cuneiforms with an abcess (my partner aspirated it yesterday) and it's growing staff and the I/D guy wants me to open it up TONIGHT.

So, I'm on my way back to the hospital (45 minutes away) to do the case with no residents, etc.

Once you have a practice like this, it's tough to let it go away or change it. Even when hiring associates or new docs, everyone still stays busy.

I live in an area of the country where overhead is high, real estate/homes are expensive, the cost of living is high and raising a family is expensive.

I simply don't have the luxury of picking and choosing when I want to work. Two kids in college at $50,000 a pop per year doesn't allow you to "relax"!!

Yes, I envy your lifestyle, but I'm also not sorry that I have a busy practice and work hard. I'm not the kind that would be able to work 3 hours daily, it's just not "me".

I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

 

[Podfather]

NatCH,

Don't get me wrong. I certainly don't measure success by how many patients are seen in a week or how many hours are worked weekly.

Additionally, I see you busted my stones that you couldn't reveal your income or I would jump all over you!! Obviously, you read my reply to diabeticfootdr. My reply to him was simply because I personally felt he was "bragging" and patting himself on the back, but that's a different story.

We all have our own reasons and goals. I would be very happy to cut back, but fortunately or unfortunately our practice has grown into a "monster". We have a huge amount of referring physicians who expect a lot of us, and request we see patients for urgencies, emergencies, etc. And we've spoiled them by accommodating their whims and needs.

It's Friday at 5 pm and I just got back from seeing our in house patients. The MRI report was not complete on one of our patients, but as I'm writing this I just received a call from the infectious disease doc who looked at the films and said the patient has osteo of the navicular and two cuneiforms with an abcess (my partner aspirated it yesterday) and it's growing staff and the I/D guy wants me to open it up TONIGHT.

So, I'm on my way back to the hospital (45 minutes away) to do the case with no residents, etc.

Once you have a practice like this, it's tough to let it go away or change it. Even when hiring associates or new docs, everyone still stays busy.

I live in an area of the country where overhead is high, real estate/homes are expensive, the cost of living is high and raising a family is expensive.

I simply don't have the luxury of picking and choosing when I want to work. Two kids in college at $50,000 a pop per year doesn't allow you to "relax"!!

Yes, I envy your lifestyle, but I'm also not sorry that I have a busy practice and work hard. I'm not the kind that would be able to work 3 hours daily, it's just not "me".

I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

That's the beauty of basically being your own boss. We can all pick and choose how we practice, how we live, and how hard we want to work. I envy the personal time some of the posters have discussed but like PADPM I would probably be bored. Although I complain, I enjoy working hard (it probably comes from my immigrant grandfather who was a miner). I make a good living and would be considered one of the higher end DPMS but I want the residents to know it does not come easy. My purpose of the thread was to demonstrate that financial success is possible (not the 50K that was implied a large percent made) but like any medical specialty requires commitment, long days, and some sacrifice.

To those who are not in alot of loan debt and choose to make less and live differently than me from reading above you can do it as well as a DPM. These forums often bring naysayers. I want to say although certainly not perfect this profession can meet mosts needs (whatever those may be). PADPM and I are from the same generation and I get a feeling we have similar backgrounds and ideas. I have trained and train residents from different generations and respect their approach to life as much as mine. My only words of wisdom are that you usually can't have it all, So decide what you want (and need) and work to make it happen..........

 

[NatCh]

I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

I get to be chocolate...with whip cream, hot fudge, bananas, nuts, and cherries.

 

[Feli]

...It's a big mistake to measure one's own success using someone else's measuring stick.

Always good advice.

 

[Googlymello]

Ok, so most of the posts so far have been about the hours you guys work and what other things you do to bring in money. I know these questions may be somewhat personal, so if someone is comfortable with answering them, I think it would give better insight to the other side of the lifestyle people are always questioning about, not just the work side...

-What about your free time?
-Do you have time in the evenings to spend with your spouse/children, or does a large part of your evenings and weekends consist of doing paperwork and catching up on stuff?
-Also, are your families understanding of the demands of your career?
-Do you think having a spouse in the same line of work makes for better understanding, or is that completely irrelevant?
-How many hours of sleep do you get a night on average??

 

[PADPM]

My free time varies depending on emergencies, my on call schedule, etc. But I ALWAYS place my family first..... no exceptions. And I try to leave time to exercise when possible.

When my children were younger, I actually worked less hours. There are several theories on this idea. One theory is to work like a dog, miss all your childrens events, and this will allow you to make BIG money so that in the future it will make it "easier". This will allow you to pay for college easier, pay for weddings, purchase your child a nice home some day, etc.

I have a partner that NEVER watched any of his kids play ONE soccer game, baseball game, etc. However, he has put away a ton of money because all he did his entire life was work (he's about 11 years older than I am). Now he is able to purchase a LARGE home for his kids, buy his kids nice cars, buy himself a few vacation homes, etc.

However, that is NOT the path I chose.

When my son was younger and throughout his entire soccer career (with the exception of his current college soccer), I always wanted him to see me on the sidelines when he looked over (and I coached him most of the time since I played Div I soccer). And the same is true for my daughter's sporting events. NO MONEY IN THE WORLD can buy that time back, nor can you explain to a child that "dad is at the office making money for your future". All a kid knows is that every other kids dad is there watching.

So I chose to work less when my kids were "growing up", to be around and not miss those years. Now that my kids are in college, and my practice has grown, I can work harder and not worry about missng events, etc.

It's a matter of priority, and my kids always take precedent. That's a decision you will have to make. My family is more important than money.

Unless I'm on call, I do not bring work home and do not paperwork on weekends.

My family has always been understanding of the demands of my work. My wife has always joked that when I get called for an emergency, at least she knows where I am and it's better than knowing that I'm at a bar or a strip club!! (if only she knew the truth!!!).

My kids always thought it was "cool" when they had to explain to one of their friends that their dad got called for some medical emergency. And it was certainly good for podiatry, since a lot of people couldn't understand why a "podiarist" treated emergencies.

One evening when I was coaching a soccer practice, I got called to the ER for gunshot wound. Coincidentally, one of the players was having a party at his home following practice. So when I finished the case I brought a copy of the C-arm film to the kid's home to show the kids the film with the bullet and they all were all amazed. Naturally, my son was happy, because for the MOMENT, I was the "cool" dad.

I can't comment regarding having a spouse in the same line, because my spouse is in a completely different line and I'm glad.

Sleep, what's sleep?? Seriously, sleep is important for you AND your patients and you should not be deprived for your own health and the welfare of your patients. I probably average about 6-7 hours a night and never "nap", unless I'm at a medical seminar

 

[NatCh]

-What about your free time?

I spend a lot of time with my family. My kids are 5 y/o and 8 y/o and I'm doing all I can to make sure they have a rich and fulfilling childhood exploring the natural world. I do not want them becoming obese from playing PS3 all day long. I take them mountain biking, skiing, rafting, hiking, camping, swimming, spelunking, etc. This morning we went down to the river to hike and catch waterbugs (or trying to anyway). No nature deficit disorder here. I got rid of television a couple of years ago and it was the best move ever. They're into gymnastics, soccer, rock climbing, and soon BJJ (hopefully). I try to be at their sports as much as possible. When they're in school I spend my non-work time doing pretty much whatever I want. Typically I'll go mountain biking, snowboarding, skiing, running, working out, reading, catching a movie, etc.

-Do you have time in the evenings to spend with your spouse/children, or does a large part of your evenings and weekends consist of doing paperwork and catching up on stuff?

Once in awhile I'll have to do some charting from home. My house is my home office so I do bookkeeping when necessary, however most of the time I'm focused on family activities. It's the most important thing.

-Also, are your families understanding of the demands of your career?

Sure.

-Do you think having a spouse in the same line of work makes for better understanding, or is that completely irrelevant?

My wife is an FP, so not exactly the same line of work but she's in medicine. I think it leads to a LOT of understanding. She can relate to patient care issues even if the pathology and treatments are not the same.

-How many hours of sleep do you get a night on average??

Usually I sleep 6-8 hours. I usually go to bed by 9pm and wake up at 4am to go run a few miles before starting the day. I rarely feel as though I have a lack of sleep, and I've used an alarm clock only a dozen times or so in the past decade (for instance when starting the ABPS oral boards in Chicago at 6:30am, which was 4:30am in my usual Pacific time zone -- putting on a necktie at what feels like 3am is whack).

I love PADPM's riff about napping during seminars! Those lectures knock me out cold. How many years in a row can I listen to the same lecture about infectious diseases or dermatopathology of the foot?

 

[Googlymello]

These were both awesome replies.
This was very encouraging to me because I am one of those people that has to stay busy and be engaged in challenging activities, but also holds family as something extremely important, so to hear from others that it is possible to have a healthy balance is very exciting.

Thanks!

 

[diabeticfootdr]

NatCH,
Obviously, you read my reply to diabeticfootdr. My reply to him was simply because I personally felt he was "bragging" and patting himself on the back, but that's a different story.

Isn't that an interesting take on things. You do the majority of the bragging on this forum. You attack anyone who has a contradictory opinion to your own, usually by starting each of your lengthy posts with something like, "I have been doing this for 30 years, been a part of every board ever known to podiatry, met presidents and trimmed toenails of all the stars, etc." You often "put people in their place". But most posting are either pod students or pre-pods. They really don't have a "place". They're just looking for info.

You are like Debbie Downer from SNL. Telling all that inquire they're not going to make the living they expect (yes some have unusually high expectations). My comments usually provide a slightly alternate opinion, because I know of many making very good livings. It is possible if you work hard and put yourself in the right situation. I provided a first hand example from my own life - not hearsay.

😍

 

[NatCh]

Isn't that an interesting take on things. You do the majority of the bragging on this forum. You attack anyone who has a contradictory opinion to your own, usually by starting each of your lengthy posts with something like, "I have been doing this for 30 years, been a part of every board ever known to podiatry, met presidents and trimmed toenails of all the stars, etc." You often "put people in their place". But most posting are either pod students or pre-pods. They really don't have a "place". They're just looking for info.

You are like Debbie Downer from SNL. Telling all that inquire they're not going to make the living they expect (yes some have unusually high expectations). My comments usually provide a slightly alternate opinion, because I know of many making very good livings. It is possible if you work hard and put yourself in the right situation. I provided a first hand example from my own life - not hearsay.

 

[PADPM]

Isn't that an interesting take on things. You do the majority of the bragging on this forum. You attack anyone who has a contradictory opinion to your own, usually by starting each of your lengthy posts with something like, "I have been doing this for 30 years, been a part of every board ever known to podiatry, met presidents and trimmed toenails of all the stars, etc." You often "put people in their place". But most posting are either pod students or pre-pods. They really don't have a "place". They're just looking for info.

You are like Debbie Downer from SNL. Telling all that inquire they're not going to make the living they expect (yes some have unusually high expectations). My comments usually provide a slightly alternate opinion, because I know of many making very good livings. It is possible if you work hard and put yourself in the right situation. I provided a first hand example from my own life - not hearsay.

😍

diabeticfootdr,

I don't believe you want to go down this road with me. I don't "attack" anyone with a contradictory opinion, but do express my opinion based on my experience. You've already got into a pi--ing match with podfather, do you really want to get into one with me now?

This is a forum filled with students and residents, and similar to podfather who has contributed significantly to our profession by VOLUNTEERING his time to our profession in various capacaties on the ACFAS, ABPS, etc., I believe that I can often offer a "little more" insight on a subject than someone with the experience of one year of podiatric medical school, or someone that hasn't even entered podiatric medical school.

You attack ME for discussing my involvement with the ABPS, ACFAS and APMA, yet all that time was volunteered. I received no "honorarium" for that time. But you're proud to discuss the money you make lecturing for an "honorarium". You accuse me of being "Debbie Downer", yet you constantly write negative comments about the big, bad ABPS/ACFAS and decided to QUIT, rather than attempt to make changes from within.

Don't insult yourself, by attempting to attack me, by slinging ridiculous comments such as putting assinine comments out inferring that I've EVER stated that I've met presidents, trimmed the toenails of the stars, etc. You just make yourself look like more of a jackass.

I don't put people "in their place", but do try to prevent the spreading of misinformation based on my years of experience in private practice, buildign a practice, being involved with the various organizations, and residency training AND paying the bills involved with a priviate practice. When's the last time you actually paid a bill for your practice? Do you even know what it's all about to have to pay the rent, utilities, malpractice, salaries, overhead, etc,............

Sometimes reality 'ain't pretty. It's the responsibility of the student and/or resident to take that information and utilize it as he/she wants to given the circumstance. Because in reality, no one has any idea if I'm even DPM or a car mechanic.

And you'd better check your reading comprehension. I never told anyone they wouldn't make the living they would expect. Check the "sticky" that is posted on this website I've written regarding salaries that is a "permanent" post. I stated many, many times that podiatric salaries, like every profession are all over the spectrum. I know of colleagues that bring home 7 figures and I know of colleagues that have quit and are working in Home Depot because they could not make a living.

Look at the APMA's own statistics....don't blame ME. There are residents being offered incredible contracts, but there are also residents being offered $45,000 a year. I'd be irresponsible to let these students and residents believe everyone is going to be offered $150,000 or higher right out of the gate.

You state that you know of many making very good livings, and I've never disputed that fact. My partners and I make very good livings and I have many friends and colleagues making excellent livings, but I'm also confident you have classmates or acquaintances that aren't. I'm simply telling the ENTIRE story.

I'm not "Debbie Downer", I'm simply telling the entire story based on my experience, which at this time is significantly more than yours.

I've complimented you many times in the past on your achievements, but there's a lot about you that I've learned that I have obstained from discussing on this forum. Podfather touched on it briefly, and I will continue to omit it from my discussion.

Everything I've accomplished, I've done without stepping on anyone's toes and without making any enemies. I'm still in touch with my residency director from many years ago, I'm still in touch with my co-residents from many years ago and I'm still in touch with the residents I've trained from years ago.

So before you start pointing fingers and criticizing me, you'd better think twice.

I expect this to be the last post on this subject.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

When's the last time you actually paid a bill for your practice? Do you even know what it's all about to have to pay the rent, utilities, malpractice, salaries, overhead, etc,............

Everything I've accomplished, I've done without stepping on anyone's toes and without making any enemies.

So before you start pointing fingers and criticizing me, you'd better think twice.

I expect this to be the last post on this subject.

I am in private practice. I have my own corporation. I pay my own bills. I've experienced employed university practice, employed hospital practice, and now private hospital practice.

To say that you get where you are without making enemies is ridiculous. Even Mother Teresa made enemies, just by being Mother Teresa. It's an obvious comparison considering all of your volunteer work. It's hard to give credibility to someone's online persona when you don't know who they are. You could be completely full of it. No one knows. People know who I am. My statements could be "fact checked". Of course I made enemies. You can't be all things to all people. When you are opinionated (like we both are), you always make enemies of those who may strongly disagree.

Don't you think your aggressive anonymous persona has created several enemies on the forum. You've stated before that your partners would not be happy if you revealed your identity online. Why? Might you create enemies for your practice?

Perhaps you forgot, you criticized me. I replied. Should anyone who is criticized by the Great PADPM just bow down and consider it an honor?

 

[diabeticfootdr]

I have been part of and following another thread where income has been discussed. One thing that is apparent is that the common demoninator (no surprise) for success is hard work.

Many believe that Podiatry offers a lifestyle different that other medical professionals. The schools have touted less hours, more personal time, no call etc. I would argue that many of those who are successful have many of the same problems as any other branch of medicine. Balancing personal and practice time, stress, call etc. all can be daunting.

So let's hear from those in practice that are doing well financially. What is your typical work week? Do you take call frequently and what does that mean? How often are you working on the weekends? How does your practice and professional life affect personal/family time? If you make income from other activities (law cases, consulting, lecturing, etc.) how much time does this involve? For those involved in state/national organizations how much of a time commitment is there? Do you live a balanced life? What would you change? I'll tell my story later.

I think it's important for students and potential students to know that the profession is solid but they can not expect to succeed financially without the same time commitments as other medical specialties. This is not meant to be negative but rather informative......

I have a specialty (diabetic foot/wound care) hospital practice. My office is inside the hospital as a hospital outpatient department.

Typical work week:

Mon (full day) - Wed (half day) - Thurs (full day): Wound Center Clinic
Tues (OR 6-8 cases) - Fri (OR 6-8 cases)

Many late hour days. My last 2 OR days were 730AM-11PM, and 730AM to 230AM. On clinic days, usually 730 rounds, 9AM -5PM clinic, then 5-7 rounds.

Hospital rounds every day, most often in morning and evening. We had 18 inpatients last week, hard to see all of those in one setting. We're adding an advanced practice nurse who can do a majority of the rounding work, that should lighten my load.

Sat occasional surgery in the AM, only 1 or 2 cases. Sat/Sun hospital rounds as needed.

Call: right now I'm on call 24/7, but we just added another guy starting Sept 1, so we'll probably alternate weeks. Call is not so bad. Occasional after hours surgery, VAC problem, or more often phone call. We admit all our patients to a diabetology group, so they answer anything not podiatry-related.

I do lecturing, consulting, and legal work. My travel for lecturing is about 3 x per month. Consulting is usually done here, company representatives travel here for meetings. If I'm putting together educatioal programs, I do that in the evening hours. Legal work (case review, opinion writing) is done in my evening hours.

I have to do a lot of documentation in the evenings. We have a web-based EMR which is time consuming, but I can do it from home because I often don't have time to do it when I'm seeing the patient.

Lifestyle is good, but more to be desired. I'm married and have a 1 year old girl. Don't see them much during the week.

We take two 1 week vacations a year and several 2-3 day trips. But, I really enjoy what I do, so it doesn't feel like work.

 

[PADPM]

I am in private practice. I have my own corporation. I pay my own bills. I've experienced employed university practice, employed hospital practice, and now private hospital practice.

To say that you get where you are without making enemies is ridiculous. Even Mother Teresa made enemies, just by being Mother Teresa. It's an obvious comparison considering all of your volunteer work. It's hard to give credibility to someone's online persona when you don't know who they are. You could be completely full of it. No one knows. People know who I am. My statements could be "fact checked". Of course I made enemies. You can't be all things to all people. When you are opinionated (like we both are), you always make enemies of those who may strongly disagree.

Don't you think your aggressive anonymous persona has created several enemies on the forum. You've stated before that your partners would not be happy if you revealed your identity online. Why? Might you create enemies for your practice?

Perhaps you forgot, you criticized me. I replied. Should anyone who is criticized by the Great PADPM just bow down and consider it an honor?

I said it before and I'll say it again. I got where I am without making any enemies. Apparently you can't say the same thing. And I doubt it very much if Mother Theresa has any enemies.

I'm still on good terms with the doctor who originally employed me, and have never burned any bridges. The doctors who I practice with and who are now my partners, were at one time my strong competitors.

However, we all covered for each other when needed, and when I saw one of their unhappy patients in my office who "bad-mouthed" them, I never said anything bad, but simply attempted to take care of the patient and vice versa.

As a result, we eventually all merged practices and became successful. We have some doctors in the area who may be envious of our success and comraderie, but I have made NO enemies along the way. I have helped as many students, residents, colleagues AND competitors as I could, and will continue that practice.

When a local DPM became ill and was unable to practice for a length of time, I saw patients in HIS office (although he was a competitor) and all billing was done through HIS office. I never received one penny for my work. He was a gentleman and his patients loved him, and he was in a tough situation and needed help. He had a small practice and it was his only source of income (his wife was his receptionist). That's how I've maintained having no enemies along my career.

My partners wanting me to remain anonymous has nothing to do with having "enemies" and it's really tragic you think that way. It's simply that some of them have several years on me and are not comfortable with the whole "internet" forum idea. I've also discussed some "details" of our practice, though I have not identified our practice, and they feel there are certain things they would like to keep as private as possible. I respect their wishes and that's how we maintain peace among the partners.

Yes, I've probably created "enemies" among this forum, which is easy over the internet where there is no face to face communication. It is always easy to misinterpret the written word vs. having a mano v. mano sit down conversation. An internet conversation certainly doesn't mimic the real world, since there is no "relationship". And of course you become an instant enemy when you tell someone what they don't want to hear.

That's much different than creating REAL enemies with your actions, words and treatments of people in the real world along the way. And I can assure you, despite your disbelief that someone can achieve success without making enemies, it's very possible. I know DPM's significantly more successful than me who have a "clean" record.

If you TRULY believe that's not possible, it's pretty sad.

 

[Googlymello]

😱....soooo....

getting back on topic..
i have another question

When you are out in public (not working) do you often have people approaching you saying "hey doc blah blah blah" and bombarding you with their issues outside of work hours? and if so, do you hear them out, talk to them a bit, and then part ways... or do you tell them to see you during your office hours or something along those lines?

 

[PADPM]

Good question. Often at social events when someone finds out what I do, he/she will ask a few questions about a foot/ankle problem. I never get annoyed and simply take it as a compliment, as long as the person knows when enough is enough.

I try to be polite and give some information to satisfy their question, but I'm not there to provide a diagnosis or replace a full examination. When that happens, I recommend they make an appointment with a local doctor for a comprehensive exam, and offer my card if they ask. I don't solicit for business at social events.

If I know the person well and it's a friend's wife or girlfriend and she starts taking off her shoe at a party and asking detailed questions, I don't often think that's appropriate at someone else's party, so I'll answer briefly and joke that it's a good thing I'm not a gynecologist, because I wonder what she would taken off in that case!

 

[NatCh]

😱....soooo....

getting back on topic..
i have another question

When you are out in public (not working) do you often have people approaching you saying "hey doc blah blah blah" and bombarding you with their issues outside of work hours? and if so, do you hear them out, talk to them a bit, and then part ways... or do you tell them to see you during your office hours or something along those lines?

People show me their feet out in public a lot. I'm just glad I'm not an OB/GYN. Har.

I live in a small city and there's a local joke that it's mandatory that every citizen must encounter at least one other citizen he or she knows every time he or she is in a public space. Word-of-mouth friendly referrals account for a lot of business so it's important to maintain appropriate public appearance. Try never to look frustrated or annoyed when people bring up foot questions. When someone asks me about a foot problem I take it as my cue to turn it into an office visit.

I always make sure to have business card on me whenever I'm out. "Oh yes, that does sound like it could be plantar fasciitis. Give me a call at my office [hand over the card] and we can investigate it fully and see what I can do to help. I'll look forward to seeing you!"

Always have your business card on you.

Always have your business card on you.

Always have your business card on you.

 

[NatCh]

so I'll answer briefly and joke that it's a good thing I'm not a gynecologist, because I wonder what she would taken off in that case!

Oh my god I can't believe we dropped the same riff at the same time. I need new material.

 

[PADPM]

Oh my god I can't believe we dropped the same riff at the same time. I need new material.

Maybe you've banged your head two many times when you've taken a spill from that mountain bike. I can blame heading a soccer ball a few too many times. Somehow, I'll bet we're not the only two pods using the ob/gyn line!

If I remember correctly in an OLD thread, weren't there some questions about you having stirrups on your treatment chairs??

 

[BuckeyeDoctor]

You've already got into a pi--ing match with podfather, do you really want to get into one with me now?

As a frequent student reader who rarely posts I feel this is the most insane interaction on SDN.

A doctor (diabeticfootdr) is one of the few docs who post on here and puts his name behind everything he says. I disagree with a good bit of his viewpoints on some things but at least I know who he is and can respect his point of his.

PADPM, what have you revealed that would violate any privacy of your practic? You don't discuss salaries, etc. or how you bill things. Do your partners want to keep private the fact that they bill or orthotics or what?

I said it before and I'll say it again. I got where I am without making any enemies

Aren't you the same guy who was calling ACFAS, etc. a good ol' boy network with the same recycled old guys. Didn't you knock the system for grandfathering people in? I have a feeling some of those strong sentiments you expressed in your very early on posts would sit well with some people. I'm also sure that even though you are a stand up guy, people despise you behind your back..it's only human nature and it's true for everyone. We all have enemies, whether we know it or not, sadly.

I'm not sure I have read one post by PADPM where he acknowledged another viewpoint as correct and he was wrong. I am sure it's because he has been practicing for 30 years and been involved in anything someone could want to be and is part of one of the largest practices in the country,etc....

 

[Googlymello]

Ok.. i came up with another question for those of you that are either in pod school, residency, or are practicing....

Did you get married/start a family before, during, or after your schooling and/or residency?

If so, how was that? Would you have done it differently?

 

[Black Surgeon]

A doctor (diabeticfootdr) is one of the few docs who post on here and puts his name behind everything he says. I disagree with a good bit of his viewpoints on some things but at least I know who he is and can respect his point of his.

I agree. I frequent numerous sub-forums on SDN, and as you've stated, Diabeticfootdr is indeed, one of only a hand full of attendings who have "put their name behind everything they've said". Based on this fact, and the nature of advice that is usually given on this sub-forum, one could argue that his word holds the most credibility.

I must also add, that the personal attacks on Diabeticfootdr, although quite entertaining, are nevertheless, out of scope. A bad culmination to a professional relationship with colleagues doesn't exactly denigrate the value and validity of his opinion and experience, his proven track record as a leader in Podiatry, nor does it justify personal attacks at the slightest inkling of disagreement or misunderstanding.

 

[PADPM]

As a frequent student reader who rarely posts I feel this is the most insane interaction on SDN.

A doctor (diabeticfootdr) is one of the few docs who post on here and puts his name behind everything he says. I disagree with a good bit of his viewpoints on some things but at least I know who he is and can respect his point of his.

PADPM, what have you revealed that would violate any privacy of your practic? You don't discuss salaries, etc. or how you bill things. Do your partners want to keep private the fact that they bill or orthotics or what?



Aren't you the same guy who was calling ACFAS, etc. a good ol' boy network with the same recycled old guys. Didn't you knock the system for grandfathering people in? I have a feeling some of those strong sentiments you expressed in your very early on posts would sit well with some people. I'm also sure that even though you are a stand up guy, people despise you behind your back..it's only human nature and it's true for everyone. We all have enemies, whether we know it or not, sadly.

I'm not sure I have read one post by PADPM where he acknowledged another viewpoint as correct and he was wrong. I am sure it's because he has been practicing for 30 years and been involved in anything someone could want to be and is part of one of the largest practices in the country,etc....

Wow, it's great when things are taken out of context, so I'll attempt to set the record straight:

First of all, I never stated anything about the ACFAS, it was the ABPS. And because I felt there were "good 'ol boys", doesn't mean that I created enemies. Disagreeing with the philosophies of others doesn't mean that those people become "enemies". Once again, I don't know if I "have" any enemies, but I stated I certainly haven't "made" any enemies along the way. I've treated everyone I've ever dealt with respectfully, including students, residents, former employers, employees, vendors, reps, colleagues, etc. I've burned no bridges.

I was involved with the ABPS and was attempting to protect the FUTURE diplomates (certified doctors). Although "grandfathering" is customary in all organizations, I did not believe in the philosophy of the re-certification process. My concern was that the "philosophy" was that it was to "protect the integrity of certification and to protect the public", yet those certified prior to a certain year only had to take a self reassessment test while those certified later had to take a true test (which could jeopardize their certification status if they didn't pass). I simply didn't believe this was fair. However, I was not alone, nor did I create "enemies".

My partners simply don't want me to reveal my identity, and I have to respect their wishes. You can understand that or not understand that, but I'm certainly not going to jeopardize the relationship with my partners over this site.

Go back and read some posts and you will see that I have posted when I was in error. Krabmas will certainly back me on this one. However, I'd like you to find me a lot of posts from other forum posters where they "often" post that ANOTHER viewpoint was correct and the poster was "wrong".

And to set the record straight, since it's been wrongly stated over and over and over again, I haven't been in practice even CLOSE to 30 years.

AHHH, Buckeye, I added an "edit" to this post because I KNEW your comments sounded a bit familiar. I looked back and realized that over one year ago, you also attempted to "slam" me. Back then in a post you questioned my credibility and my desire to remain anonymous, since I didn't reveal enough about myself. You praised Dr. Rogers, you praised NatCH and another anonymous DPM, yet slammed ME for remaining anonymous????? You questioned my credibility for remaining anonymous, yet had no problem with 2 of the other 3 doctors anonymity. You told me it was easy to hide behind the "cloak of the internet". WAY back then I told you that it was the wish of my partners, and if you didn't believe my posts were credible, you could simply ignore my posts.

So, apparently you've had an agenda even prior to my disagreement with Dr. Rogers, so I guess you couldn't wait to jump in and rehash what you've already written in April of 2009.

 

[PADPM]

BlackSurgeon,

I found a post that you wrote and this is the quote:

"Got it! Thanks for your help PADPM, you've always been my favorite attending on SDN"

Come on BlackSurgeon, don't bail on me now.

 

[UNMorBUST]

BlackSurgeon,

I found a post that you wrote and this is the quote:

"Got it! Thanks for your help PADPM, you've always been my favorite attending on SDN"

Come on BlackSurgeon, don't bail on me now.

 

[Googlymello]

sooo...just in case anybody looked over it.. there is a question up there in between all the arguing..😀

 

[NatCh]

Ok.. i came up with another question for those of you that are either in pod school, residency, or are practicing....

Did you get married/start a family before, during, or after your schooling and/or residency?

If so, how was that? Would you have done it differently?

We got married during Residency. It didn't have a whole lot of bearing on the job since marriage for us was mostly a legal document. Our relationship was established and stable before we put it on paper.

We also had our first child during Residency, but seeing how difficult it has been for numerous friends to conceive I'd say the best time to have a baby is whenever the wife (girlfriend, fiance, s/o, whatever) gets pregnant. It's too sad when a professional woman finally has her career sorted out enough to feel that the time is right to have a baby but then can't get pregnant.

 

[Podfather]

Although I understand how one may think that because someone who reveals one's name has more credibility than one who remains anonymous it is flawed logic to believe anything posted by either is the complete truth. Besides almost everyone who posts remains anonymous.

My observations:
Although I have not agreed 100% of the time with PADPM (in fact we have had our disagreements), I can state that IMO what he has stated is helpful for students and residents. He is direct, to the point, and when we have disagreed it was one opinion vs another. His posts appear to be for the good of the profession and do not have an agenda. His experience gives him credibility .

It's hard for me to see Diabeticfootdr as genuine since I know of his history and completely disagree with most of his statements/opinons with ABPS/ACFAS. His statements IMO are divisive to our profession not helpful. Having said that he does have the right to state opinions but I will speak up when facts are bent, urban legends (ACFAS is afraid of the P word), or plain not true. I didn't mind that he implied his salary since it would demonstrate to some that success is possible in this profession.

 

[PADPM]

I got married the summer going into my 4th year of podiatry school. It was a little difficult, since my wife was working and I was at school for a few months which was not in the same geographic area. I also did some hospital rotations/externships across the country, nowhere near her job.

So for the first year we were actually apart more than we were together, so it was a little tough, but a necessary evil. But fortunately it seemed to work out well because she's still putting up with me. We didn't have children until after my residency.

 

[NatCh]

You praised Dr. Rogers, you praised NatCH and another anonymous DPM, yet slammed ME for remaining anonymous????? You questioned my credibility for remaining anonymous, yet had no problem with 2 of the other 3 doctors anonymity.

Wait, was I involved in some flame war regarding anonymity? If I was, I don't recall any previous thread.

Regardless, it would take anyone about three mouse clicks to figure out who I am given only the info on this page. First one to find my website gets to become a fan for free on our facebook page!

Nat

 

[Googlymello]

Regardless, it would take anyone about three mouse clicks to figure out who I am given only the info on this page. First one to find my website gets to become a fan for free on our facebook page!

Nat

i might just take you up on that offer.. lol...hahaha


thanks for your responses. i'm starting to see that there are a lot of options for achieving everything you want in life..i guess it just depends on the person and where they are in their life...but this is definitely some encouraging stuff.

 

[Googlymello]

oh oh oh!!!
i found the website!

bahaha

 

[Black Surgeon]

BlackSurgeon,

I found a post that you wrote and this is the quote:

"Got it! Thanks for your help PADPM, you've always been my favorite attending on SDN"

Come on BlackSurgeon, don't bail on me now.

Haha, I still stand by that statement. Notice I didn't quote any of the attacks which were directed at you. I have gathered from your posts that you hold professional integrity to a high esteem, as I have openly stated before, this is one of the reasons I have admired your posts, and have upheld you as an invaluable poster and exemplary figure on SDN.

With that said, as I have proclaimed myself to be an admirer of integrity, failing to maintain a certain level objectivity in my posts would be nothing short of hypocritical and would bring my own personal sense of integrity in question.

 

[BuckeyeDoctor]

You questioned my credibility for remaining anonymous, yet had no problem with 2 of the other 3 doctors anonymity.

Maybe I don't read the forums enough, but Natch doesn't slam people when he disagrees with them. I have no problem with you "putting people in their place" when it is pre-pods and even to an extent students. But when you constantly argue and disagree with just about everything diabeticfootdr says, it comes off pretty bad.

No one that remains anonymous slams other doctors on here or constantly makes claims about their experience.

I'm not sure more than a week goes by (maybe even a few days) without the followers of SDN knowing about your experience in ABPS, etc. or how you have been a residency director, etc.

 

[NatCh]

oh oh oh!!!
i found the website!

bahaha

Well done!