Limerick Interviews 2015

[sharpshooter123]

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Hey guys, Im making this thread for when Limerick Interview invites comes out (Mid March). I know its early now but when you receive an invite, it would be great if you can help everyone out by posting when you received it and your stats. Thank you!

 

[sassa]

I would recommend anyone who has an interview to read *this* thread.

Shweddies and I spent a LOT of time answering questions, and most of the answers should be in there 🙂 There is also a list of DOs and DON'Ts.

Not long to wait now for interview dates - good luck!

 

[sassa]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-interviews-2014.1063390/page-4#post-16047026

Would help if I posted the thread ....

 

[sharpshooter123]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-interviews-2014.1063390/page-4#post-16047026

Would help if I posted the thread ....

Hey Sassa, how do you find limerick in terms of preparation for USMLE/MCCEE? Also, do you know if there are two rounds of interviews for limerick or just 1?

 

[sassa]

Hey Sassa, how do you find limerick in terms of preparation for USMLE/MCCEE? Also, do you know if there are two rounds of interviews for limerick or just 1?

I'm preparing for my USMLE Step 1 right now (MCCEE will be next year so I can't comment yet ... but you're off on our clinical rotations in 3rd and 4th year so you're on your own).

For Step 1, It's a lot of self study, but that's with any school. They offer a course through Kaplan and access to the resources, which is helpful. I would say 60% of the class is studying for Step 1, and most of us do / have done DIT, and Kaplan, and are starting on Qbanks now, ramping up to the summer. From past years, UL students seem to be scoring 230s-240s.

You have to put more effort into biochem, micro and pharm, and there are things in First Aid you just won't have covered in the 2 years. But like - I just finished DIT with some friends, and I've now been through First Aid once through that (in detail, with notes) and I use it almost every day for my work, since first year (last year). I also use Toronto Notes for my work. So you make it work.

You can also get your PBL / school work done in 2-3 days (max) in 2nd year and the rest of the week is USMLE prep.

As far as I know for interviews - only 1 round. But I was interviewed 2 years ago, so I'm not sure if it's changed.

 

[sharpshooter123]

I'm preparing for my USMLE Step 1 right now (MCCEE will be next year so I can't comment yet ... but you're off on our clinical rotations in 3rd and 4th year so you're on your own).

For Step 1, It's a lot of self study, but that's with any school. They offer a course through Kaplan and access to the resources, which is helpful. I would say 60% of the class is studying for Step 1, and most of us do / have done DIT, and Kaplan, and are starting on Qbanks now, ramping up to the summer. From past years, UL students seem to be scoring 230s-240s.

You have to put more effort into biochem, micro and pharm, and there are things in First Aid you just won't have covered in the 2 years. But like - I just finished DIT with some friends, and I've now been through First Aid once through that (in detail, with notes) and I use it almost every day for my work, since first year (last year). I also use Toronto Notes for my work. So you make it work.

You can also get your PBL / school work done in 2-3 days (max) in 2nd year and the rest of the week is USMLE prep.

As far as I know for interviews - only 1 round. But I was interviewed 2 years ago, so I'm not sure if it's changed.

That sounds pretty nice, having time to study. However, do you not feel that PBL style is not as content rich as normal didactic learning and it makes studying for USMLE (lots of details) much harder?
Also I was wondering, how detailed are the lectures at limerick? Do they supplement a lot or is everything on your own?

 

[sassa]

That sounds pretty nice, having time to study. However, do you not feel that PBL style is not as content rich as normal didactic learning and it makes studying for USMLE (lots of details) much harder?
Also I was wondering, how detailed are the lectures at limerick? Do they supplement a lot or is everything on your own?

I personally get nothing out of didactic learning, so PBL works very well for me. I am a hands on practical person (engineer) and most of my undergrad was spent learning on our own anyway. I learn by doing and actively learning in group-led cases each week and having to present 2x a week really makes you know your stuff. Tack on mini cases handed out and the rest and you cover a lot. You also have context with the cases.

Lectures for the most part supplement your learning / case covered for the week.

Let's put it this way - I did a lot of shadowing last summer in many fields and my competence was enough after first year I was in with patients on my own. I was told people were impressed at my knowledge and my skills and didn't seem like a first year.

When I say 'time to study' I mean you never have time but you make time for it. No matter where you go, be prepared to be always short on time! (And yet you still need to find time to just not study to stay sane - or I do at least)

PBL works for many. And for many it won't. I would shoot myself if I had to do straight lectures and I don't see how straight lectures are practical in real life when you deal with multi faceted cases anyway. You have to know yourself. If you don't think its for you, and you need to learn from rote lectures, don't do it. Play your strengths. It's tough enough without struggling with a teaching and learning style that you are set against from fhe beginning.

 

[sassa]

You also have most of your peers studying for the usmle so in pbl, you challenge each other. it's not like you're in alone in learning the details and the 'above and beyond' pushes everyone to learn better and more.

 

[sharpshooter123]

Hmm I see, thank you that really helped 🙂

 

[sharpshooter123]

Hey Sassa, I was just curious, how much exposure to patients did you get first 2 years? Also in Limerick, did you guys have a white coat ceremony?

 

[sassa]

Hey Sassa, I was just curious, how much exposure to patients did you get first 2 years? Also in Limerick, did you guys have a white coat ceremony?

White coat ceremonies are a North American thing. RSCI might do it. But the vast majority of places do not. So no.

Exposure to patients - there is an Early Patient Contact Program, so you are guaranteed one patient in a group of 2-3 to follow and meet with over the first two years. There are presentations and case reports for your patient each year. Your Special Study Module in Year 2 will also have you interacting with patients, but in a non-physician capacity (you shadow a non-physician health care professional). I did mine in a long term / palliative care home, so lots of patients.

Sometimes in clinical skills, you'll have a simulated patient with the pathology (not always), or sometimes (like this week for geriatrics / interviewing the elderly) they brought in elderly patients essentially off the street, without any coaching, to interview.

Beyond that, it's up to you. As mentioned earlier, I did a lot of shadowing this summer - urology, cardiology, rural GP, palliative care, hepatology (both post transplant and non-transplant). I didn't have time to do more. I think I interacted with over 100 patients, easy. And many of those one-on-one.

Pre-clinical years 1 and 2 are just that - preclinical. Year 3 and 4 are the clinical years.

 

[Riverpeth]

Hey Sassa,

Could you provide some firsthand insight regarding residency matching for IMG's at Limerick or Ireland in general? I've seen some pretty scary stats on the CaRMS website, and I just want to get a better idea of what exactly the numbers means, it seems like a startlingly low match rate.

 

[sharpshooter123]

Hey Sassa,

Could you provide some firsthand insight regarding residency matching for IMG's at Limerick or Ireland in general? I've seen some pretty scary stats on the CaRMS website, and I just want to get a better idea of what exactly the numbers means, it seems like a startlingly low match rate.

Does it show low match for limerick or overall ireland?

 

[sassa]

Hey Sassa,

Could you provide some firsthand insight regarding residency matching for IMG's at Limerick or Ireland in general? I've seen some pretty scary stats on the CaRMS website, and I just want to get a better idea of what exactly the numbers means, it seems like a startlingly low match rate.

I don't have firsthand insight as I haven't gone through it yet. And to be honest, I haven't looked at the match rates this year, but one of our best profs tracks it (she did her residency in the US) and said that our match rates have gone up this year from what she can see.

But from UL, this year, in first round, there were matches to:

~ UBC internal
~ Ottawa anaesthesiology
~ Toronto orthopedics (this is unreal)
~ Toronto SickKids

I've heard it was a good first round for matches this year, I'm not sure about 2nd round. Stats from this year I don't think will have been released yet?

It also depends on what you want to do, and where. And your strategy. A girl last year didn't match, but (from what I remember) she ONLY applied to internal medicine in high city centres in Canada. And at that not many. So eggs in a very tiny basket.

 

[Riverpeth]

Thanks for the info. Would you say from your understanding that most Canadians match back to Canada each year or are there a significant number left behind?

@sharpshooter123 The low match rate I found was simply for IMG's so I wasn't sure of the exact breakdown by country of education. It may be that Ireland matches high, while some other countries match terribly.

 

[sassa]

Thanks for the info. Would you say from your understanding that most Canadians match back to Canada each year or are there a significant number left behind?

@sharpshooter123 The low match rate I found was simply for IMG's so I wasn't sure of the exact breakdown by country of education. It may be that Ireland matches high, while some other countries match terribly.

It's hard to say as I only know a few upper years (more each year obviously) but I would say many match yes. I can try to find out (or if any other UL people on the board know ...?) I just can't promise I'll get it to you today lol

 

[Phm0T9]

I don't know many 4th year students so I am not sure how the match went for them this year, but here are the previous two years.

2013 Match stats: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2013-match-stats-of-irish-schools.997933/
UL 2014 Match: Overall 20/29 Matched

CaRMS 1st round, 16/27
Family x 8 - Ottawa, Manitoba x3, Sask x2, Mac, UBC
Neuro - Toronto
Vascular - Ottawa
Anaesthesia - Ottawa
Paeds - Ottawa
Internal x3 - Toronto x2, Western
Psych - Mac

CaRMS 2nd Round - 3/13
Radiology - Queens
Internal - Sask
Psych - Memorial

ERAS: 1/2
Gen Surg - Johns Hopkins

 

[sassa]

Congratulations to those who have received / will be receiving interviews! I know it's about that time 🙂

 

[throughhoopsandhurdles]

Congratulations to those who have received / will be receiving interviews! I know it's about that time 🙂

Thanks Sassa! Just received my interview invite today. Things are finally looking up 🙂

 

[Pinky677]

Hey Sassa,

Could you provide some firsthand insight regarding residency matching for IMG's at Limerick or Ireland in general? I've seen some pretty scary stats on the CaRMS website, and I just want to get a better idea of what exactly the numbers means, it seems like a startlingly low match rate.

I dont knwo where thefirst and second years are getting thier match info from lol

Im a final year, so i know where most of my class matched.

The year before us, 6 didnt match. 2 stayed for intern year, 4 went back to canada to do research or something.., 3/4 that went back matched this year. The 2 interns, and one of the four still dont have a residency.

My class has had a decent match, but please remember alot of them have powerful families and amazing connections. The girl that got aesthetics has a massively impressive resume and is an absolute academic superstar.
Trying to remember off the top of my head what everyone got:
Uofo - anesthetics
UofT- orthopedics
UofT- physical medicine and rehab
UofT- peds
Mac- peds
UofO- internal
Dal (or maybe it was Memorial?) psych
2 uofMani - family
Queens family
Usask - family
U of O- family
Western- family

In the amerian match
2 irish, 2 canadians and a nigerian matched
2 to neuro in new york
1 to family in michigan
1 to family in indiana
Not sure on the other guy... Surgery somewhere im sure

Theres 4 staying for sure next year,

Theres 5 going through second round

 

[Pinky677]

Im forgetting a couple, maybe 2-3... And one i have absolutely no idea about.. As far as i know he dint do usmle/mccee so im going to assume hes staying next year as well...

 

[Pinky677]

I love poking my head in annually trying to warn people to think long and hard before commiting to ul... Im sure it never works, but you cant say you werent warned!

If at the inteview larvin talks his nomal bs about getting loads of time to do electives (finucane actually told my interview group there would be opportunities for core rotations in Canada... Lies!) grill him. Make him sweat. Let him know its important to you to get this time, because you'll never get back to canada without it...

End rant.

Good luck in your interviews.

 

[starstrike]

I love poking my head in annually trying to warn people to think long and hard before commiting to ul... Im sure it never works, but you cant say you werent warned!

If at the inteview larvin talks his nomal bs about getting loads of time to do electives (finucane actually told my interview group there would be opportunities for core rotations in Canada... Lies!) grill him. Make him sweat. Let him know its important to you to get this time, because you'll never get back to canada without it...

End rant.

Good luck in your interviews.

The elective time component is one of the biggest things I'm worried about. Can you describe how it works at UL and your experience (judging by this post, it doesn't seem to be positive...!).

As an aside, how do you find the PBL curriculum? Any comments? Did the lack of traditional lectures as backing affect your foundation/understanding of the basic sciences? I have an interview for UL and I graduated from a PBL based program (so I'm used to the process... And really enjoy it!) - but I had good didactic backing as well... So I was curious to hear your thoughts!

Thank you for your thoughts/advice!

StarStrike

 

[Pinky677]

The elective time component is one of the biggest things I'm worried about. Can you describe how it works at UL and your experience (judging by this post, it doesn't seem to be positive...!).

As an aside, how do you find the PBL curriculum? Any comments? Did the lack of traditional lectures as backing affect your foundation/understanding of the basic sciences? I have an interview for UL and I graduated from a PBL based program (so I'm used to the process... And really enjoy it! - but I had wimgood didactic backing as well... So I was curious to hear your thoughts!

Thank you for your thoughts/advice!

StarStrike

I think they just changed the layout of the course, so itll likely be different in your year then it was for mine.

I had a few weeks at christmas in third year and the summer between third and fourth to do electives. I got 11 weeks in but had no free time.

See what they show you for the schedule at the interview. Remember, no schools will take you for an elective before third year, most wont even take you until fourth, and you have to have done your core in whatever specialty your trying to do an elective in... So when we did our third year it was 18wks gp, 9 wks surgery and 9 weeks medicine, no obs, no peds, no psych. Its super frustrating, but i think they might have changed it...

I wouldnt be so bitter with the program had they just been honest at our interviews. They convinced me that they would help us get back to NA and we would all live happily ever after, and they havent done jacksheep to help me. Everything ive accomplished, from my class rank, mccee, nac and usmle scores to my residency is DESPITE ul, not thanks to them... And now theyre harrassing us to share our match results with them.. Heck no! You dont deserve to use my success to advertise your lies... Unfortunately im pretty sure carms has already shared it with them though...

Pbl was great. Ive never watched so much netflix in my life... I didnt learn much, but my personal life was at its peak. Theres still lectures, theyre just optional and are meant to tie into your case for the week.

 

[starstrike]

I think they just changed the layout of the course, so itll likely be different in your year then it was for mine.

I had a few weeks at christmas in third year and the summer between third and fourth to do electives. I got 11 weeks in but had no free time.

See what they show you for the schedule at the interview. Remember, no schools will take you for an elective before third year, most wont even take you until fourth, and you have to have done your core in whatever specialty your trying to do an elective in... So when we did our third year it was 18wks gp, 9 wks surgery and 9 weeks medicine, no obs, no peds, no psych. Its super frustrating, but i think they might have changed it...

I wouldnt be so bitter with the program had they just been honest at our interviews. They convinced me that they would help us get back to NA and we would all live happily ever after, and they havent done jacksheep to help me. Everything ive accomplished, from my class rank, mccee, nac and usmle scores to my residency is DESPITE ul, not thanks to them... And now theyre harrassing us to share our match results with them.. Heck no! You dont deserve to use my success to advertise your lies... Unfortunately im pretty sure carms has already shared it with them though...

Pbl was great. Ive never watched so much netflix in my life... I didnt learn much, but my personal life was at its peak. Theres still lectures, theyre just optional and are meant to tie into your case for the week.

Don't most of the Irish programs work in a similar way for electives? I remember at my RCSI interview when I had asked they mentioned you do your electives in 3rd (end of year) and 4th year as well. Is the issue more with space/timing? How difficult is it to get an elective back in Canada and/or the US? (does UL have any official arrangements with North American schools like RCSI?)

I didn't realize that we couldn't do an elective in a specialty that we didn't have a core in. It seems UCD is similar in that they have ObGyn and Peds in 4th year (but psych is in 3rd year) while RCSI seems to have everything in 3rd year (but as 7 week rotations). That is definitely good information to know. It is a little bit disappointing to hear that UL doesn't offer much support - obviously where we end up is in large part dependent on us and our effort, but it is also good to know if the school is on your side.

Heh, are you serious about the PBL? I'm hoping you're being facetious about "not learning anything"...? How did you end up preparing for clerkship and then residency?

Thanks again for your help! Your advice and thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[Pinky677]

Don't most of the Irish programs work in a similar way for electives? I remember at my RCSI interview when I had asked they mentioned you do your electives in 3rd (end of year) and 4th year as well. Is the issue more with space/timing? How difficult is it to get an elective back in Canada and/or the US? (does UL have any official arrangements with North American schools like RCSI?)

I didn't realize that we couldn't do an elective in a specialty that we didn't have a core in. It seems UCD is similar in that they have ObGyn and Peds in 4th year (but psych is in 3rd year) while RCSI seems to have everything in 3rd year (but as 7 week rotations). That is definitely good information to know. It is a little bit disappointing to hear that UL doesn't offer much support - obviously where we end up is in large part dependent on us and our effort, but it is also good to know if the school is on your side.

Heh, are you serious about the PBL? I'm hoping you're being facetious about "not learning anything"...? How did you end up preparing for clerkship and then residency?

Thanks again for your help! Your advice and thoughts are much appreciated.

Not sure how the other irish programs work honestly, im sure it is similar though.

Ya my issue with doing all the exams, electives and interviews to get back was the organization of clerkship, and lack of support from the school. They went so far as to threaten to fail a few people who went for interviews (the girl who got anesthetics, legit got an email saying she was going to fail because she was missng 1 too many days for her interviews... She managed to convince them to let her make up the missed time on the weekends, but the fact that she got an email like that from the school as she was prepping for such an important interview is horrendous...)

Theres VERY few affiliations. The only one I know about is sask... I know peple are throwing around mayo on these boards.. Thats a lie lol there was one guy a few years back whos dad had connections at mayo and got him an elective there, but its certainly not an affiliation the school has or should be advertising...

I did biomedical sciences as a primary degree, so first year was basically a review. Ive passed every other year because ive had to study for the usmle, mccee and nac so in turn have actually learned stuff while studying for those... I admit i wasnt as active in pbl as i probably should have been though... Netflix was just more entertaining than learning about the ear...

I will say ul does do clinical skills quite well. I did feel confident with my history and examination skills going into clerkship, the NAC and usmle cs, so its not ALL bad...

I dont feel ready for residency. At all. Not one bit. Weve been groomed into good med students and interns (whose main tasks includes writting letters and doing lines and bloods...), not competent residents and doctors. I dont feel like im ready to start making my own clinical decisions or prescribing. I'm absolutely terrified to start residency...

 

[starstrike]

Not sure how the other irish programs work honestly, im sure it is similar though.

Ya my issue with doing all the exams, electives and interviews to get back was the organization of clerkship, and lack of support from the school. They went so far as to threaten to fail a few people who went for interviews (the girl who got anesthetics, legit got an email saying she was going to fail because she was missng 1 too many days for her interviews... She managed to convince them to let her make up the missed time on the weekends, but the fact that she got an email like that from the school as she was prepping for such an important interview is horrendous...)

Theres VERY few affiliations. The only one I know about is sask... I know peple are throwing around mayo on these boards.. Thats a lie lol there was one guy a few years back whos dad had connections at mayo and got him an elective there, but its certainly not an affiliation the school has or should be advertising...

I did biomedical sciences as a primary degree, so first year was basically a review. Ive passed every other year because ive had to study for the usmle, mccee and nac so in turn have actually learned stuff while studying for those... I admit i wasnt as active in pbl as i probably should have been though... Netflix was just more entertaining than learning about the ear...

I will say ul does do clinical skills quite well. I did feel confident with my history and examination skills going into clerkship, the NAC and usmle cs, so its not ALL bad...

I dont feel ready for residency. At all. Not one bit. Weve been groomed into good med students and interns (whose main tasks includes writting letters and doing lines and bloods...), not competent residents and doctors. I dont feel like im ready to start making my own clinical decisions or prescribing. I'm absolutely terrified to start residency...

That kinda sucks to hear. You would think they would be more supportive to NA students during the interview time. Where did you end up matching if you don't mind me asking? Where did you do your electives in school?

I get the feeling other people awaiting residency may feel the same way. I don't think at this point you're supposed to be a "competent resident and doctor" that's what residency and your practice are for (or so a UofC MD graduate/colleague put it). Though what do I know, maybe another graduate can comment.

 

[shweddies]

It's been a while since I've posted but as sassa said before, feel free to ask more questions. We'll be on this site a lot in the next few months just to check in with all of ye!

To start, I do want to say that everything on the board needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I am finishing second year and absolutely LOVE UL. Every school has their pitfalls, but PBL is fantastic. I don't learn by didactic learning so this program works well for my learning style. Also, UL has a great clinical program set up which starts in first year. We get simulated patients and some OCASE practice which is extremely importent especially for matching back. Unfortunately we don't get any in hospital work in the first 2 yrs of the program but our later 2 years are strictly in hospital.

With regards to electives and such. Most schools don't need a definite number of electives to get a residency spot. All programs need are good reference letters. I know many ul grads who have only done 1 or 2 electives and matched back to fantastic programs. Time is always an issue no matter what school you go to. You get summer and breaks and there is alloted time in 3rd and 4th year for elective to be done. Since you're not in Canada, the process for applying is a little more tedious and requires more planning, but most people do match for electives. Even now, a lot of programs are changing their elective process, for example McMaster makes choosing students for electives based on sheer luck. This increases the "fairness" for everyone regardless of their school...so things are changing.

Finally, before I finish this post I do want to say that I have no regrets coming here. It is more work, definitely! But it's expected. Also, people are matching to great
Programs in the states and Canada and if UL was not producing well trained doctors, then people wouldn't be matching. Just know a lot of this journey is up to you. Like anything, You get out what you put into it and these have been the best years of my life! I'm gonna be soooooo sad to leave UL and ireland in 2 years!

 

[starstrike]

It's been a while since I've posted but as sassa said before, feel free to ask more questions. We'll be on this site a lot in the next few months just to check in with all of ye!

To start, I do want to say that everything on the board needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I am finishing second year and absolutely LOVE UL. Every school has their pitfalls, but PBL is fantastic. I don't learn by didactic learning so this program works well for my learning style. Also, UL has a great clinical program set up which starts in first year. We get simulated patients and some OCASE practice which is extremely importent especially for matching back. Unfortunately we don't get any in hospital work in the first 2 yrs of the program but our later 2 years are strictly in hospital.

With regards to electives and such. Most schools don't need a definite number of electives to get a residency spot. All programs need are good reference letters. I know many ul grads who have only done 1 or 2 electives and matched back to fantastic programs. Time is always an issue no matter what school you go to. You get summer and breaks and there is alloted time in 3rd and 4th year for elective to be done. Since you're not in Canada, the process for applying is a little more tedious and requires more planning, but most people do match for electives. Even now, a lot of programs are changing their elective process, for example McMaster makes choosing students for electives based on sheer luck. This increases the "fairness" for everyone regardless of their school...so things are changing.

Finally, before I finish this post I do want to say that I have no regrets coming here. It is more work, definitely! But it's expected. Also, people are matching to great
Programs in the states and Canada and if UL was not producing well trained doctors, then people wouldn't be matching. Just know a lot of this journey is up to you. Like anything, You get out what you put into it and these have been the best years of my life! I'm gonna be soooooo sad to leave UL and ireland in 2 years!

Hi shweddies,

Thanks for the insight. It is always good to hear different opinions and insights... Hopefully to eventually make a more informed opinion.

I'm a pharmacy graduate myself and am very used to the PBL style of learning - I really enjoyed it during my training (that's where I did most of my studying/learning actually!). My biggest worry is that having minimal lectures will adversely affect your learning and understanding of the basic sciences. Are you able to comment on that at all? Did it provide a solid foundation/understanding for your clinical practice/learning?

Having no hospital contact in the first two years seems like a disadvantage, though I don't know much about the OCASE and the simulated patients... Can you comment more on that? Is this meant to replace/make up for the lack of early patient contact? (I'm not too familiar with this...). Similarly I also hear that anatomy at UL is also different than most of the other schools - apparently no cavaders, but there are some computerized simulations?

I suppose for electives one would require more time/exposure at a clinical site to secure a good letter of reference? The other poster was mentioning that the school provides little to no support applying for/securing electives, are you able to provide any further information on that?

I apologize for all the questions. I'm really curious to learn more about and understand ULs medical program. I completely agree that you get what you put into an education, however, I think opportunity and resources also play a role as well.

Thanks!

StarStrike

 

[shweddies]

I will try and answer your questions as well as I can. Sassa and I both put some input into this so hopefully things are a little more clarified.

1. Both sassa and I have come from a very minimal science background and both of us (along with most in our class) have no issues with the basic sciences. Since you know how PBL works, you knowledge is guided via tutors and learning outcomes. As long as you put in the effort, you will have absolutely no problems with the sciences. Your tutor will also make sure of that...keep in mind that is their job.

2. A solid foundation for clinical practice...yes! Sassa and I were both fortunate to have been able to do observerships over the summer. We had a fantastic time actually being able to see what's going on and we were even able to take the reins a bit and help out with patients. You are taught how to deal with clinical situations and we are taught very well...even the doctors we helped out in the summer had so many good things to say and couldn't believe we were only finished first year. I have also heard of multiple physicians who tend to favour the irish grads since they do have great clinical skills and people skills...but that's not always something you can teach, part of that is an innate quality!

3. OCASE are a set of exams which are conducted at the end of any medical college in order to gain certification. It is a test of clinical situations...ie. Go into the room and you have 10 minutes to assess the patient and give advise. Very similar to real life. Canada now has a NAC exam, it is an OCASE exam for out of country grads which assesses their clinical skills. Kinda similar to part of the USMLE, or states board exams. You need to pass to get a residency. UL prepares you very well for these and we are introduced to it in first year, which is a fantastic advantage...I even find now I'm not nearly that nervous for them since we've done them so many times. These cases are also preparing you for your clinical years in year 3/4

4. Electives, reference letters are really what's needed for residency. Where or with whome you do them doesn't really matter all that much. UL doesn't have many affiliations with schools, there are a couple in the states and dal. Now I do need to say that it is never up to the school to get electives for students, it is strictly up to the student. You are the one hunting down electives and applying. Sure if you are struggling the faculty members are more Than happy to help you, but they can't do everything for us. Even the application process is more randomized now, so you just sign up and hope you advance to the next 'level' and eventually get an elective. You don't need any school help for these. For example, I'll use McMaster again, if you want an elective you sign up and cross your fingers your name gets drawn. The only thing the school helps with is signing the firms and writing official letters to the program you are applying for electives. There are options to make your own elective, but those are difficult to do due to all the paper work and polices.

Remember, the school isn't here to make you fail, they are here to help. No matter where you go you will always find things you don't like, but that's just life. keep in mind we are no longer undergrads, info is not spoon fed to us and we are not handed opportunities on a silver platter. UL lays out what they expect form you in order to pass, but it's up to you to go above and beyond and not rely on everyone for everything. Scraping by won't do anyone any good, if you put the effort in you should have no problems at all!

Hope that helped 🙂

 

[starstrike]

I will try and answer your questions as well as I can. Sassa and I both put some input into this so hopefully things are a little more clarified.

1. Both sassa and I have come from a very minimal science background and both of us (along with most in our class) have no issues with the basic sciences. Since you know how PBL works, you knowledge is guided via tutors and learning outcomes. As long as you put in the effort, you will have absolutely no problems with the sciences. Your tutor will also make sure of that...keep in mind that is their job.

2. A solid foundation for clinical practice...yes! Sassa and I were both fortunate to have been able to do observerships over the summer. We had a fantastic time actually being able to see what's going on and we were even able to take the reins a bit and help out with patients. You are taught how to deal with clinical situations and we are taught very well...even the doctors we helped out in the summer had so many good things to say and couldn't believe we were only finished first year. I have also heard of multiple physicians who tend to favour the irish grads since they do have great clinical skills and people skills...but that's not always something you can teach, part of that is an innate quality!

3. OCASE are a set of exams which are conducted at the end of any medical college in order to gain certification. It is a test of clinical situations...ie. Go into the room and you have 10 minutes to assess the patient and give advise. Very similar to real life. Canada now has a NAC exam, it is an OCASE exam for out of country grads which assesses their clinical skills. Kinda similar to part of the USMLE, or states board exams. You need to pass to get a residency. UL prepares you very well for these and we are introduced to it in first year, which is a fantastic advantage...I even find now I'm not nearly that nervous for them since we've done them so many times. These cases are also preparing you for your clinical years in year 3/4

4. Electives, reference letters are really what's needed for residency. Where or with whome you do them doesn't really matter all that much. UL doesn't have many affiliations with schools, there are a couple in the states and dal. Now I do need to say that it is never up to the school to get electives for students, it is strictly up to the student. You are the one hunting down electives and applying. Sure if you are struggling the faculty members are more Than happy to help you, but they can't do everything for us. Even the application process is more randomized now, so you just sign up and hope you advance to the next 'level' and eventually get an elective. You don't need any school help for these. For example, I'll use McMaster again, if you want an elective you sign up and cross your fingers your name gets drawn. The only thing the school helps with is signing the firms and writing official letters to the program you are applying for electives. There are options to make your own elective, but those are difficult to do due to all the paper work and polices.

Remember, the school isn't here to make you fail, they are here to help. No matter where you go you will always find things you don't like, but that's just life. keep in mind we are no longer undergrads, info is not spoon fed to us and we are not handed opportunities on a silver platter. UL lays out what they expect form you in order to pass, but it's up to you to go above and beyond and not rely on everyone for everything. Scraping by won't do anyone any good, if you put the effort in you should have no problems at all!

Hope that helped 🙂

Thanks very much... Very informative!

 

[camino]

Just booked my Limerick interview for Sat April 11 in TO. Thanks for all the super helpful and informative posts by sassa, pinky667 and shweddies.
I'm still not sure about going to the interview but figure that I don't loose anything by saving my interview spot or attending.... (if I didn't get into a Cdn school then it would be a matter of the UK vs Ireland for me. I think I prefer the UK but it just seems like an impossible risk calculation all around).

 

[mcgillstudent]

Hey guys, Im making this thread for when Limerick Interview invites comes out (Mid March). I know its early now but when you receive an invite, it would be great if you can help everyone out by posting when you received it and your stats. Thank you!

Hey! Thanks for making this thread. Does anyone know what is the format of the interviews? I have read back on the 2013 forums and they explain group sessions and then relaxed interviews either panel or individuals. Can anyone confirm this? Are there any MMI sessions as well?

Thanks!

 

[sassa]

Hey! Thanks for making this thread. Does anyone know what is the format of the interviews? I have read back on the 2013 forums and they explain group sessions and then relaxed interviews either panel or individuals. Can anyone confirm this? Are there any MMI sessions as well?

Thanks!

Check my post 3rd from the top.

Shweddies and I spent a LOT of time last year going over the format and Dos and Don'ts.

Trust me, everything is covered in there!

 

[sharpshooter123]

Hey Sassa,
When you were studying for USMLE and taking the courese, did you find a lot of content to be new or unfamiliar due to the lack of lectures at limerick.
Or did you find that studying PBL via the cases and some lectures were sufficient enough to help you study for USMLE?

Also can you help me differentiate between a core, elective and observership? For example, my understanding is that a core in pediatric is purely classes while an elective is where you go into a pediatric department and work on real clinical cases and an observership is like shadowing a physician.

Last question is that Ive read about how you need to complete your cores before that applying for that specific elective. At limerick, do you finish all your cores in time to arrange for electives summer of 3rd year so that you can get LOR for residency?

 

[sassa]

Hey Sassa,
When you were studying for USMLE and taking the courese, did you find a lot of content to be new or unfamiliar due to the lack of lectures at limerick.
Or did you find that studying PBL via the cases and some lectures were sufficient enough to help you study for USMLE?

Also can you help me differentiate between a core, elective and observership? For example, my understanding is that a core in pediatric is purely classes while an elective is where you go into a pediatric department and work on real clinical cases and an observership is like shadowing a physician.

Last question is that Ive read about how you need to complete your cores before that applying for that specific elective. At limerick, do you finish all your cores in time to arrange for electives summer of 3rd year so that you can get LOR for residency?

I'm still studying for the USMLE Step 1. There is no way you could get all the knowledge through just lectures and PBL cases alone. From what I understand though, you wouldn't get that from didactic lectures either. I think most people spend 6-8 weeks hermiting doing Qbank questions if you didn't do stuff through the year with a traditional school? The detail is just too great.

I would say that PBL helps me more than lectures, and you remember things based on "that myasthenia gravis case" or "like we did with the Jane Smith case last term". It helps brain-link it together. But like I've mentioned, I'm not a lecture person, and I don't often go to ones I won't pay attention to. I learn best by doing, so PBL works. As I mentioned before as well, in 2nd year, many classmates are taking the USMLE in the summer and we all go into way more detail than those that don't - so you're still constantly pushed.

Observership - you watch, and don't touch (generally, depends on the doctor or hospital you're doing it with). It doesn't count towards residency applications. However, who you do an observership with can lead to an elective which WILL count.

Core - What you need to pass your schooling. These are your clerkship placements set out as part of your curriculum for accreditation. They vary from 3rd and 4th year and must be done in Ireland. You get your placements in 2nd year. Third year you do GP, medicine and surgery. 4th year you do med, surg, paeds, obs and psych + a research SSM that you can do anywhere and do an elective or something back home at the same time.

Elective - something you do on your own time, over Christmas or summers or your SSM period. These are your tickets to the US or Canada and where your reference letters and extra experience comes from.

Your last question has a bit of a vague answer. Last year, the schedule changed to allow for less missed time for interviews because people were flying back and forth and missing placement and that threatened accreditation hours. Your elective times are summer after 3rd year and winter / Christmas of 4th year. You are placed into different groups (A-F) and depending on your group, you may have your cores (psych, paeds, obs) done before you need. However, you might not. My roommate really wants paeds so this was an issue. The school has told her that for her elective application, they will support her in saying though she hasn't completed the elective between 3rd and 4th year, she will have seen X,Y,Z in her GP and med/surg rotations (she's going to give the elective a shot in the summer even though many schools don't take 3rd years for electives anyway). She will have done the paeds rotation before Christmas of 4th year though, so she won't need provisions then for over the Christmas break elective.

Lots of information, hopefully it's not too confusing.

 

[sharpshooter123]

Thank you 🙂 so for the last part, you're saying that even thought she did not complete the peds core, the school will vouch for her by saying she has experience in her GP/med/surg rotations and that is enough for her to get the elective over the christmas break.

 

[PMRmer]

Thank you 🙂 so for the last part, you're saying that even thought she did not complete the peds core, the school will vouch for her by saying she has experience in her GP/med/surg rotations and that is enough for her to get the elective over the christmas break.

Yes, exactly. I am a 4th year at UL and I had several classmates who were able to complete electives in specialties prior to completing their cores. If necessary, the school can vouch for you.

 

[UBC2014]

Yes, exactly. I am a 4th year at UL and I had several classmates who were able to complete electives in specialties prior to completing their cores. If necessary, the school can vouch for you.

I would add though this is heavily dependent on the hospital in question your approaching for an elective, many Canadian rotations, since they are handled by the respective university medical schools - are strict on this. They won't bend the rules of letting you do an elective in an area for which you have not done the respective cores. US hospitals, since there are vast variances in hospital and program policies, are more flexible.

 

[athussin]

That might be tricky for some electives. Thinking ahead, I will be looking to do a psych elective (or two if I can) in Canada. I see that psych cores are done in 4th year so I would not be able to do an elective in the summer between 3rd and 4th. Do any of you guys @UBC2014 @sassa know of any Canadians in your class looking to do psych electives?

By the way, thank you guys very much for all the valuable insight. You have no idea how helpful all of this is.

 

[athussin]

My other question to you guys is about student evaluations. Are courses pass/fail or are they letter graded or something else? I am reading a lot about class ranks and how that is something CaRMs looks at when considering applicants. So my question is how are students ranked at UL?

I am also asking this to understand what determines who gets an elective or not. I understand some schools draw out of a hat, but what about other schools that look at applications and decide? Sure they take their share from the domestic applicants first but then how do they rank all IMGs for who gets an elective or not? And do most students that apply for electives end up getting them? I am trying to understand how hard/easy is it to get one.

Any insight regarding that would be very much appreciated.

 

[sassa]

That might be tricky for some electives. Thinking ahead, I will be looking to do a psych elective (or two if I can) in Canada. I see that psych cores are done in 4th year so I would not be able to do an elective in the summer between 3rd and 4th. Do any of you guys @UBC2014 @sassa know of any Canadians in your class looking to do psych electives?

By the way, thank you guys very much for all the valuable insight. You have no idea how helpful all of this is.

I would assume UL would be able to vouch for you on psych matters as you will likely see them during your 3rd year (GP I would assume you'd come across some of the more common psych disorders).

You could also end up in a group in 4th year that does their psych rotation before Christmas, you will be able to do a psych rotation over the break / before residency applications are due without vouching.

I don't know anyone in my year but there is a person in the year behind me who will want to be doing psych electives. Not helpful really though.

 

[sassa]

My other question to you guys is about student evaluations. Are courses pass/fail or are they letter graded or something else? I am reading a lot about class ranks and how that is something CaRMs looks at when considering applicants. So my question is how are students ranked at UL?

I am also asking this to understand what determines who gets an elective or not. I understand some schools draw out of a hat, but what about other schools that look at applications and decide? Sure they take their share from the domestic applicants first but then how do they rank all IMGs for who gets an elective or not? And do most students that apply for electives end up getting them? I am trying to understand how hard/easy is it to get one.

Any insight regarding that would be very much appreciated.

It's Pass/Fail for first two years, and then ranked in 3rd and 4th year with grades.

For electives, depends on the school if you're put into an IMG stream for applying or everyone applies the same way. There is a central website that does most electives for most schools now, and those that don't point to the site to apply. I would recommend checking that out or asking someone who has access to it (it costs $500 for IMG to get access to the portal so if you have a friend in Canada or already applying) for more specific details because there's no way I can tell you each and every school / elective and their process right now.

I *think* most if not all schools have information on their site anyway as well for you to get an idea.

 

[PMRmer]

It's Pass/Fail for first two years, and then ranked in 3rd and 4th year with grades.

I think it's worth pointing out that when applying to the US, your school's dean must release a detailed performance review for the entire four years of medical school.

Also, I'd like to add that there was a Canadian student at UL who completed a psychiatry elective in Canada between third and fourth year.

 

[sassa]

Thanks @PMRmer . Still in 2nd year here and it's far better getting information from 4th years to pass on (and I learn things too)

 

[UBC2014]

My other question to you guys is about student evaluations. Are courses pass/fail or are they letter graded or something else? I am reading a lot about class ranks and how that is something CaRMs looks at when considering applicants. So my question is how are students ranked at UL?

I am also asking this to understand what determines who gets an elective or not. I understand some schools draw out of a hat, but what about other schools that look at applications and decide? Sure they take their share from the domestic applicants first but then how do they rank all IMGs for who gets an elective or not? And do most students that apply for electives end up getting them? I am trying to understand how hard/easy is it to get one.

Any insight regarding that would be very much appreciated.

When applying for electives in Canada, it is school dependent - but the biggest thing is you need to be flexible with dates, and apply well in advance. UBC for example this year stopped taking any visitors for electives significantly earlier than expected due to domestic demand.

Some Canadian schools will allow you to do an elective in the summer break between 3rd and 4th year - pending you have completed your 3rd year and the respective core in that specialty - and of course if there is available space. Summers fill up quick, because many foreign schools not based on the North American models don't have the elective time during the year. Again, it will be up to you to research all the schools you are interested in with doing electives and their timelines/policies.

Being limited to only certain windows of time, will really make things difficult - and you will have to take what you can get wherever it may be in Canada. Some schools also have blackout dates, using UBC as an example again : "Electives are not offered during the Christmas period. This will be Dec 21, 15-Jan 3, 2016".

I would really look at the clinical scheduling of the schools you have as options, to ensure you can maximize your Canadian and US clinical electives.

 

[sassa]

That's with every school though - research, apply in advance, etc. Not just for UL students. Every school has their own curriculum and school year, just like UL. It's not like another Irish school magically gives everyone Octobers off!

UBC is also known for not accepting anyone who's not a BC resident. I know a handful who made their own electives, but there are schools that favour / only accept their own residents too. But that's all on the websites.

Some schools say residents only, but if you contact them directly (USask), electives can be arranged.

It's largely all up to you and how much work you want to put into it.

 

[UBC2014]

That's with every school though - research, apply in advance, etc. Not just for UL students. Every school has their own curriculum and school year, just like UL. It's not like another Irish school magically gives everyone Octobers off!

UBC is also known for not accepting anyone who's not a BC resident. I know a handful who made their own electives, but there are schools that favour / only accept their own residents too. But that's all on the websites.

Some schools say residents only, but if you contact them directly (USask), electives can be arranged.

It's largely all up to you and how much work you want to put into it.

For sure, I wasn't implying UL specifically at all. I'm just pointing out that some schools have more elective room than others or less restrictive/unknown scheduling, and that should be something a student takes into consideration - depending on their specific goals w.r.t Canadian and US electives .

I would point out that at least at the few Canadian schools i have looked into - you can't "make your own electives", you have to go through the university and their approved electives - though this definitely can be true for other Canadian schools.

As for UBC not accepting people who aren't BC residents, i'm not so sure that is true as I know of 5 non-BC (ontario)applicants studying outside of Canada who had no problems arranging electives, 3 of them all full 8 weeks. I'd like to think it truly is a lottery process, and that they wouldn't have the time no concern to cherry pick BC residents.

W.r.t favouritism - the general hierarchy for order of filling slots is Home Medical School > Other Domestic Canadian schools > Foreign schools (some medical schools will put US schools ahead of others, some not). Again, all of this is available on the school websites and up to the individual to put in the work and sort it out.

 

[sassa]

Full 8 weeks at BC! I haven't found any electives for any IMGs longer than 3 weeks. I haven't been looking at UBC too closely to be honest though. I also don't think I'd want to spend a full 8 weeks at one place - but wow.

I have two friends in 3 year who made their own electives 🙂 They had a preceptor and did the paperwork. Totally possible, just more work. I have a person who has offered to help me create an elective and they are affiliated with a Canadian university as well, so I will be looking into it more this summer.

For those going to the interviews, they will show you a schedule on the day of (or should - ask if they don't!). If not, we can post a schedule for you.

 

[UBC2014]

Full 8 weeks at BC! I haven't found any electives for any IMGs longer than 3 weeks. I haven't been looking at UBC too closely to be honest though. I also don't think I'd want to spend a full 8 weeks at one place - but wow.

I have two friends in 3 year who made their own electives 🙂 They had a preceptor and did the paperwork. Totally possible, just more work. I have a person who has offered to help me create an elective and they are affiliated with a Canadian university as well, so I will be looking into it more this summer.

For those going to the interviews, they will show you a schedule on the day of (or should - ask if they don't!). If not, we can post a schedule for you.

They really wanted to match in BC haha, it worked out. And i meant a total of 8 weeks, but split across more than 1 elective hahaha. Imagine 8 weeks with the same preceptor 😛

Good to know though if you have connections you can make your own electives at some universities!