List of programs for residency

Bartelby · Jul 1, 2012

It's hard to know anything about your application from the information given, so it is hard to know where you might get interviews. That said, 35 is a lot of schools! That is more than double the number I applied to, and I think going on more than twelve interviews would be real overkill (my dean advised 8 - 12 as a good target number, even that range is really staying on the safe side).

It looks like you are in California from your list. Try narrowing down on those, and then pick some dream schools that you might choose over the CA schools. Add in a few safeties and then interview at 8 -12 of the schools that give you offers, which will likely be many of them if your application is strong overall. At least that's my advice. Run it by people in your psych department who are familiar with how students tend to do from your school, and take a look at the places people have matched from your school in recent years.

nitemagi · Jul 1, 2012

Bartelby said:
It's hard to know anything about your application from the information given, so it is hard to know where you might get interviews. That said, 35 is a lot of schools! That is more than double the number I applied to, and I think going on more than twelve interviews would be real overkill (my dean advised 8 - 12 as a good target number, even that range is really staying on the safe side).

It looks like you are in California from your list. Try narrowing down on those, and then pick some dream schools that you might choose over the CA schools. Add in a few safeties and then interview at 8 -12 of the schools that give you offers, which will likely be many of them if your application is strong overall. At least that's my advice. Run it by people in your psych department who are familiar with how students tend to do from your school, and take a look at the places people have matched from your school in recent years.

👍

Though some of these on your list are going to be a stretch with "average" scores and grades, and some may even be very easy. The hard ones you might not get interviews at (UWash, Columbia, MGH, UCLA), but no harm in applying aside from $$ and time.

I'll add one additional little tip from my few years looking at application essays. If you're in the "maybe" pile and your essay may be the thing that pushes you over the edge to get an interview, I was always caught by essays that targeted the individual program. Stating the name of the program is one thing, but another step might be mentioning specific aspects of that program to show you're interested in Them. That adds.

vistaril · Jul 1, 2012

GladifImakeit said:
Hello. Is this a good mix of schools to apply to for residency? I know I have most of the best programs here, but are there enough low and middle tier programs on here? Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I have average 3rd year grades and decent step scores. I have an incomplete grade because I needed knee surgery. What are your thoughts? Thank you so much!

Los Angeles County-Harbor-UCLA Medical Center Program, Torrance, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] San Mateo County Behavioral Health and Recovery Services Program, San Mateo, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Stanford University Program, Stanford, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] UCLA Medical Center Program, Los Angeles, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of California (Davis) Health System Program, Sacramento, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of California (Irvine) Program, Orange, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of California (San Diego) Program, San Diego, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of California (San Francisco) Program, San Francisco, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno Program, Fresno, CA Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of Colorado Denver Program, Aurora, CO Psychiatry
[ delete ] Yale-New Haven Medical Center Program, New Haven, CT Psychiatry
[ delete ] George Washington University Program, Washington, DC Psychiatry
[ delete ] Georgetown University Hospital Program, Washington, DC Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of Hawaii Program, Honolulu, HI Psychiatry
[ delete ] Louisiana State University/Ochsner Clinic Foundation Program, New Orleans, LA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Tulane University Program, New Orleans, LA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Boston University Medical Center Program, Boston, MA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Harvard Longwood Training Program, Boston, MA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Massachusetts General Hospital/McLean Hospital Program, Boston, MA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Tufts Medical Center Program, Boston, MA Psychiatry
[ delete ] Johns Hopkins University Program, Baltimore, MD Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt Program, Baltimore, MD Psychiatry
[ delete ] Duke University Hospital Program, Durham, NC Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of North Carolina Hospitals Program, Chapel Hill, NC Psychiatry
[ delete ] Wake Forest University School of Medicine Program, Winston-Salem, NC Psychiatry
[ delete ] Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program, Bronx, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center Program, New York, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] New York Medical College (Metropolitan) Program, New York, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus)/New York State Psychiatric Institute Program, New York, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program, New York, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] New York University School of Medicine Program, New York, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn Program, Brooklyn, NY Psychiatry
[ delete ] Oregon Health & Science University Program, Portland, OR Psychiatry
[ delete ] University of Washington Program, Seattle, WA Psychiatry

first, you have to tell us what you are looking for. Location. Do you want to work at a program that makes you work hard or not? Do you want to go to a program with mostly american grads? Honestly, your list looks a little odd....like why is GW, Hawaii, LSU-shreveport, Wake forest on the list?

OldPsychDoc · Jul 1, 2012

vistaril said:
first, you have to tell us what you are looking for. Location. Do you want to work at a program that makes you work hard or not? Do you want to go to a program with mostly american grads? Honestly, your list looks a little odd....like why is GW, Hawaii, LSU-shreveport, Wake forest on the list?

Apparently allergic to non-coastal states, other than Colorado...

splik · Jul 1, 2012

whopper · Jul 1, 2012

Recommending the right program for you is too complex a feat and you gave so little information. I think you may have applied to more programs than needed but better safe than sorry because I'd rather someone err on the side of caution and get in vs. not get in.

I'd weigh the following factors...

The lifestyle of the residency, atmosphere, pay, location, quality of instruction, research vs clinical, psychotherapy training, and compatibility with where you want to go in the field.

Avoid malignant programs.

GladifImakeit · Jul 1, 2012

splik · Jul 1, 2012

NYMC (metropolitan) is on probation - it is very very hard to get on probation so it must be fairly messed up. SUNY downstate is a sinking ship... similar things for GWU apparently but that is only from my spies...

vistaril · Jul 1, 2012

GladifImakeit said:
Thank you so much for the help everyone. I have made a new list narrowed down. I kept some of the malignant programs on the list if they were in the same location as other places I'd be applying to, out of an abundance of caution.

What I'm looking for: strong academic program with ability to work with and supervise medical students, urban environment that is diverse and attractive (SF, Seattle come to mind), the best teachers and fellow residents, and focus on clinical training and psychotherapy in addition to med mgmt. I am willing to work reasonably hard and prefer more American grads I guess, but have nothing against IMGs. UCSF and UWash prob top 2 choices.

About me: 3rd year honors in neuro and psych, then took a leave of absence, was depressed but also did some research, back in school now, doing pretty well, will have 2 to 4 honors in a row depending on how my evaluations pan out. Pretty good LORs I think. Good personal statement. Good board scores.

Here is the new list:

delete ] Los Angeles County-Harbor-UCLA Medical Center Program, Torrance, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] San Mateo County Behavioral Health and Recovery Services Program, San Mateo, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Stanford University Program, Stanford, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] UCLA Medical Center Program, Los Angeles, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of California (Davis) Health System Program, Sacramento, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of California (Irvine) Program, Orange, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of California (San Diego) Program, San Diego, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of California (San Francisco) Program, San Francisco, CA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Yale-New Haven Medical Center Program, New Haven, CT
Psychiatry

[ delete ] George Washington University Program, Washington, DC
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Georgetown University Hospital Program, Washington, DC
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Boston University Medical Center Program, Boston, MA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Harvard Longwood Training Program, Boston, MA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Massachusetts General Hospital/McLean Hospital Program, Boston, MA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Tufts Medical Center Program, Boston, MA
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Johns Hopkins University Program, Baltimore, MD
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt Program, Baltimore, MD
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Duke University Hospital Program, Durham, NC
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of North Carolina Hospitals Program, Chapel Hill, NC
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Wake Forest University School of Medicine Program, Winston-Salem, NC
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program, Bronx, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center Program, New York, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] New York Medical College (Metropolitan) Program, New York, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus)/New York State Psychiatric Institute Program, New York, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program, New York, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] New York University School of Medicine Program, New York, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn Program, Brooklyn, NY
Psychiatry

[ delete ] University of Washington Program, Seattle, WA
Psychiatry

dude, you are in fine shape. you will have your pick

GladifImakeit · Jul 1, 2012

splik said:
NYMC (metropolitan) is on probation - it is very very hard to get on probation so it must be fairly messed up. SUNY downstate is a sinking ship... similar things for GWU apparently but that is only from my spies...

Hmm, I may cross these programs off my list, but I'm very curious to know more. Why are they sinking ships? Is it bad training, violation of policies, or what?

splik · Jul 1, 2012

I have pm'd you and there are two controversial threads I started about programs to avoid you can search for.

*Edit*
Here they are: programs to avoid and vote for #10 program to avoid

digitlnoize · Jul 2, 2012

GladifImakeit said:
Hello. Is this a good mix of schools to apply to for residency? I know I have most of the best programs here, but are there enough low and middle tier programs on here? Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I have average 3rd year grades and decent step scores. I have an incomplete grade because I needed knee surgery. What are your thoughts? Thank you so much!

I would replace Wake Forest with UVa. Wake has some sketchy things going on with their call schedule. You could consider VCU in Richmond too.

I know it's inland, but I would check out Indiana U. It has a lot of the things you're looking for...just no water. But a great program.

Edit: Where is MUSC? Why would you apply to all these coastal programs and NOT Charleston? Weird. Add MUSC for sure. I guess Charleston isn't quite a huge city, but it's big enough and has a vibrant culture. Great program, great city.

Edit 2: While you're at it...if you want a safety, I'd add USF in Tampa. Not a *great* program, but it's fair (i.e. not malignant), and Tampa is an awesome large city with great weather and great beaches. Plus, it's not that competitive...they didn't fill in this years' match. I wouldn't make it my first choice, but it might make a very, very good safety for you.

GladifImakeit · Jul 2, 2012

Thanks guys! I've narrowed the list down to 23 schools. I really appreciate your help.

vistaril · Jul 2, 2012

digitlnoize said:
I would replace Wake Forest with UVa. Wake has some sketchy things going on with their call schedule. You could consider VCU in Richmond too.

I know it's inland, but I would check out Indiana U. It has a lot of the things you're looking for...just no water. But a great program.

Edit: Where is MUSC? Why would you apply to all these coastal programs and NOT Charleston? Weird. Add MUSC for sure. I guess Charleston isn't quite a huge city, but it's big enough and has a vibrant culture. Great program, great city.

Edit 2: While you're at it...if you want a safety, I'd add USF in Tampa. Not a *great* program, but it's fair (i.e. not malignant), and Tampa is an awesome large city with great weather and great beaches. Plus, it's not that competitive...they didn't fill in this years' match. I wouldn't make it my first choice, but it might make a very, very good safety for you.

eh...I heard(and scutwork confirms this if you check) that the residents are overworked there, often working 55+ hrs per week. And it's not high value hours from an education perspective either..... No thanks.

NYCMS2 · Jul 2, 2012

vistaril said:
eh...I heard(and scutwork confirms this if you check) that the residents are overworked there, often working 55+ hrs per week. And it's not high value hours from an education perspective either..... No thanks.

Which program are you commenting on? There were 4 in that prior post...UVA, IU, MUSC, and USF.

Doctor Bagel · Jul 2, 2012

GladifImakeit said:
Hmm, I may cross these programs off my list, but I'm very curious to know more. Why are they sinking ships? Is it bad training, violation of policies, or what?

I know someone at SUNY Downstate, and I'd stay the hell away. I think you probably get good training in an intense urban environment, but it sounds a bit sweatshopish and not resident-friendly.

Otherwise, op, I think you'll have your choice of programs. Average applicants is psych still do quite well. I'd try to cut applications to 20 or so and interviews to no more than 15. You also don't need to look at programs like NYMC and SUNY-Downstate. If there are few to no US grads, it's usually not where you want to be. You do not need any low tier places in your lineup.

Doctor Bagel · Jul 2, 2012

vistaril said:
eh...I heard(and scutwork confirms this if you check) that the residents are overworked there, often working 55+ hrs per week. And it's not high value hours from an education perspective either..... No thanks.

Is working 55+ hours a week overworking someone? Our residents routinely work 60+ hours, including call, on inpatient and busy consult services. I don't think that's too atypical for lots of programs.

vistaril · Jul 2, 2012

Doctor Bagel said:
Is working 55+ hours a week overworking someone? Our residents routinely work 60+ hours, including call, on inpatient and busy consult services. I don't think that's too atypical for lots of programs.

depends on how high value the hours are.....sometimes working 40-45 hrs is a lot more educational than working 70.....

vistaril · Jul 2, 2012

NYCMS2 said:
Which program are you commenting on? There were 4 in that prior post...UVA, IU, MUSC, and USF.

usf.....Dont know much about the others....except that MUSC is a pretty big program size wise

pPKB · Jul 2, 2012

splik said:
I have pm'd you and there are two controversial threads I started about programs to avoid you can search for.

*Edit*
Here they are: programs to avoid and vote for #10 program to avoid

Hey splik, could you elaborate on GWU? I didn't see it mentioned in either of those threads. Thanks,

p

notdeadyet · Jul 2, 2012

Doctor Bagel said:
Is working 55+ hours a week overworking someone? Our residents routinely work 60+ hours, including call, on inpatient and busy consult services. I don't think that's too atypical for lots of programs.

It varies on service, no?

55+ hours on a busy inpatient or consult service (including call) isn't unusual. 55+ for scheduled outpatient psych is on the heavy side.

splik · Jul 2, 2012

pPKB said:
Hey splik, could you elaborate on GWU? I didn't see it mentioned in either of those threads. Thanks,

p

Up until very recently I was actually recommending GWU - they are particularly strong in consult-liaison, health policy, and had an innovative residency curriculum with an emphasis on psychotherapy, policy, humanities etc. However I have been told that the medical school as a whole is a sinking shift for 'political' reasons and a number of faculty have defected making the department unstable. They failed to fill 2/6 spots last year and the medical school was put on probation a while ago (this has since been lifted) as well as accusations of failing to meet ACGME work hour rules. Considering many places violate these rules, if this has been flagged up (in general, not for psychiatry but obviously you would rotate through other services if you went there) it has to be a matter of concerns. I have also had some rumblings of unhappy residents who have not wished to elaborate further.

In sum, I am hoping someone can clarify, because I do not have enough specifics to go on except that I am no longer suggesting people apply to GWU considering there are so many programs that are not only much better, but also don't have any mud thrown at them. sorry if that is not more helpful.

Jewishprincess · Apr 30, 2014

splik said:
Up until very recently I was actually recommending GWU - they are particularly strong in consult-liaison, health policy, and had an innovative residency curriculum with an emphasis on psychotherapy, policy, humanities etc. However I have been told that the medical school as a whole is a sinking shift for 'political' reasons and a number of faculty have defected making the department unstable. They failed to fill 2/6 spots last year and the medical school was put on probation a while ago (this has since been lifted) as well as accusations of failing to meet ACGME work hour rules. Considering many places violate these rules, if this has been flagged up (in general, not for psychiatry but obviously you would rotate through other services if you went there) it has to be a matter of concerns. I have also had some rumblings of unhappy residents who have not wished to elaborate further.

In sum, I am hoping someone can clarify, because I do not have enough specifics to go on except that I am no longer suggesting people apply to GWU considering there are so many programs that are not only much better, but also don't have any mud thrown at them. sorry if that is not more helpful.

Avoid GWU psychiatry. That is, if you want a career. In addition to the problems listed above and the incredible politics, over the last couple of years, they have fired four residents, all pgy 1-2, and all female. This from a rather small department. Look before you leap.

Firing residents from any residency, much less psych, is almost unknown these days. So, unless they are singularly unlucky in the match, this alone indicates serious issues. Allegedly, none of the fired residents found another position, effectively ending their medical careers, with no way to pay back the loans. As you note, the complaints are muted--- nobody wants to be the next person fired.

This might be related to what got GWU med on accreditation probation, their special need to make money, noted elsewhere. E.g., one suggestion is that the GW psychiatry department makes money off residents the first two years, but can't find sufficient outpatient third-year spots for all the second years. Third-years also cost the department money. So to keep the numbers good for ACGME accreditation, GW fires any excess residents.

Sounds incredible, I know. But nothing about George Washington University would surprise me now.

myPsychAlt · Apr 30, 2014

Jewishprincess said:
Avoid GWU psychiatry. That is, if you want a career. In addition to the problems listed above and the incredible politics, over the last couple of years, they have fired four residents, all pgy 1-2, and all female. This from a rather small department. Look before you leap.

Firing residents from any residency, much less psych, is almost unknown these days. So, unless they are singularly unlucky in the match, this alone indicates serious issues. Allegedly, none of the fired residents found another position, effectively ending their medical careers, with no way to pay back the loans. As you note, the complaints are muted--- nobody wants to be the next person fired.

This might be related to what got GWU med on accreditation probation, their special need to make money, noted elsewhere. E.g., one suggestion is that the GW psychiatry department makes money off residents the first two years, but can't find sufficient outpatient third-year spots for all the second years. Third-years also cost the department money. So to keep the numbers good for ACGME accreditation, GW fires any excess residents.

Sounds incredible, I know. But nothing about George Washington University would surprise me now.

umm, this was an old bump. I know you deleted it, but what the hell does USNews have to do with anything?

Jewishprincess · May 20, 2014

@myPsychAlt:
From Huntington Post:
"George Washington University Loses U.S. News 'Best Colleges' Ranking Over Data Inflation"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/george-washington-university-us-news-ranking_n_2131891.html

Basically, GW got tossed from the US News and World Report "Best colleges" edition for the academic equivalent of "doping". Other than a non-specific "What the hell else is wrong?", not relevant to their psychiatry residency program. So deleted.

Yoyomama88 · Oct 6, 2014

are the concerns regarding GW psych still valid these days? Anyone have any info about the program?

GlobalMental · Jan 15, 2015

The concerns about GW psych are absolutely still valid today. Starting in 2010, GWU Psychiatry fired or "strongly encouraged to pursue other opportunities" 4 residents. That's 1/6th of the class nearly each year, far higher than national average. When they did that in 2011, the remaining residents were on call >6 times/ month. When were residents actually supposed to learn during that time?

Also in the last 5 years, GW had to scramble/ SOAP for 2 different Matches. Probably because those applicants that knew its reputation knew to stay far away.

Unless you like being a resident that's farmed out to Inova Fairfax, yelled at by faculty, thrown under a bus by administration, or you must stay in DC, GWU is probably not a good fit. Although, GW really likes residents that come with their own grant money for Global Mental Health initiatives. They're called "Golden Boys" here.

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