List of schools that do not ask about arrests and/or charges on secondary?

[puppylatte]

Please list schools that did not ask about charges or arrests on your secondary. I know all of them probably ask about convictions, but that is reasonable since conviction means guilt. Arrested and charged means "suspected."

I do not have any arrests, charges or convictions but I have fairly strong personal reasons for not giving a school that asks about arrests/charges my money.

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[Goro]

Because we don't want students who are thieves, thugs, have addiction issues, fail to accept responsibility for their actions, or learn from their mistakes, for one.

The medical licensing board may not ask about your arrest/conviction history, but hospitals do. Med schools do not want to graduate people who can't get jobs, so that's why you can expect nearly every medical school to ask about this on secondaries.

But if you'd rather be right than President, by all means have it your way.

 

[100111]

Because we don't want students who are thieves, thugs, have addiction issues, fail to accept responsibility for their actions, or learn from their mistakes, for one.

The medical licensing board may not ask about your arrest/conviction history, but hospitals do. Med schools do not want to graduate people who can't get jobs, so that's why you can expect nearly every medical school to ask about this on secondaries.

But if you'd rather be right than President, by all means have it your way.

sorry goro, but I disagree with you. Police officers from my experience have had a great tendency to abuse their powers and I do not believe that we should allow a baseless arrest with no conviction stop someone from getting into medical school.

As for hospitals, are you referring to residency positions? Because we still need researchers and physician scientists. Residency programs still also accept students with actual criminal convictions (DWI mostly). I'd find it hard to believe they'd accept convicted students but reject one that's merely had an arrest which would not affect their state licensure.

 

[puppylatte]

Because we don't want students who are thieves, thugs, have addiction issues, fail to accept responsibility for their actions, or learn from their mistakes, for one.

The medical licensing board may not ask about your arrest/conviction history, but hospitals do. Med schools do not want to graduate people who can't get jobs, so that's why you can expect nearly every medical school to ask about this on secondaries.

But if you'd rather be right than President, by all means have it your way.

People who get falsely arrested are thieves, thugs or have addiction issues? An arrest means many things but it doesn't mean guilt.
So most schools ask for arrests/charges? Thanks for your response.

Does anyone remember if they had a secondary that did not ask about charges or arrests?

 

[Goro]

Yes, they do.

Even expunged convictions can be picked up on background checks. Naturally, one is not going to turn away someone who is innocent; that's why they give you the little box to explain what happened. And 100, don't take the MCAT until you improve your reading skills, I never stated that hospitals will deny you a job because of arrest record only.

The sage @gyngyn can explain this more eloquently than I.

So most schools ask for arrests/charges?

 

[gyngyn]

Schools that request information about charges as well as arrests may be closely affiliated with hospitals whose background checks may rise to a more stringent level in order to issue a badge (state, county and federal facilities). If it is likely (given the nature of the "expunged" offense) that a badge would be delayed or not granted, it is advisable for both the applicant and the school to be aware as early in the application/acceptance process as possible.

 

[Psyche Estrelle]

OP, I'm all for your philosophical convictions, but I don't think you should waste your effort and your chances to make your point, because even if schools don't ask about arrests, I can assure you that future jobs will.

 

[yanks26dmb]

To quell worries, can most of us who have to answer yes to charges feel fairly confident that our response to this question isnt the reason we arent getting into a certain school?


@Goro @gyngyn

 

[yanks26dmb]

OP - from my experience touros kcumb and western do not ask about charges...There may be more.

 

[Goro]

Based on what goes on at my school, we don't pre-screen and so we'll interview you. Arrests per se aren't the issue, nor even convictions, it's the ramifications of what one (or didn't do). For example. One kid had several DUIs when 17 and one more at 18. Said kid destroyed his/her chances not with the DUIs, but with the "the cops set me up" attitude.

As I often point out to people, it's important to own one's transgressions. Yeah, there are bad cops out there, but I'm not buying getting zapped by them 3 separate times.

A bad interview will kill you vastly more often than an IA or an arrest or citations.

For those of you who haven't gotten interviews yet, despite the good stats (like you, I believe, yanks), all I can say is that it's still early in the DO cycle.

Capeesh?

To quell worries, can most of us who have to answer yes to charges feel fairly confident that our response to this question isnt the reason we arent getting into a certain school?


@Goro @gyngyn

 

[yanks26dmb]

Based on what goes on at my school, we don't pre-screen and so we'll interview you. Arrests per se aren't the issue, nor even convictions, it's the ramifications of what one (or didn't do). For example. One kid had several DUIs when 17 and one more at 18. Said kid destroyed his/her chances not with the DUIs, but with the "the cops set me up" attitude.

As I often point out to people, it's important to own one's transgressions. Yeah, there are bad cops out there, but I'm not buying getting zapped by them 3 separate times.

A bad interview will kill you vastly more often than an IA or an arrest or citations.

For those of you who haven't gotten interviews yet, despite the good stats (like you, I believe, yanks), all I can say is that it's still early in the DO cycle.

Capeesh?

Thanks Goro.

As one of the leading candidate's for neurotic poster of the year award, I say let's believe what Goro is telling us, stop the worry, and keep the faith that our charges/non-violent convictions aren't going to prevent us form becoming doctors.

...at least until later in the week when a continuing lack of ii's causes us to forget all of the above and we revert back to our neuroticism.

 

[karling]

A bad interview will kill you vastly more often than an IA or an arrest or citations.

Citations? Is this an issue? It's not an arrest. It's not a charge. And it's certainly not a conviction. I don't think I've seen any secondaries ask for citations to be disclosed. Do any schools ask about them?

 

[AlteredScale]

Citations? Is this an issue? It's not an arrest. It's not a charge. And it's certainly not a conviction. I don't think I've seen any secondaries ask for citations to be disclosed. Do any schools ask about them?

Campbell specifically states to report and moving violations or citations in their secondary.

As Goro has said, It's simply a test to see if a) you'll be upfront and honest with your mistakes and b) you show that you've grown and corrected yourself no matter how measly a mistake it was.

 

[costales]

FWIW Here's a couple of questions from the Texas Medical Board:
If you answer “Yes” to any question in this section, you are required to submit records and a statement. See Form R.
Question 4*
Have you ever been arrested?
Question 5*
Have you ever been charged with any violation of the law regardless of outcome? (Unless the offense involved alcohol or drugs, you may exclude: 1) traffic tickets; and, 2) violations with fines of $250 or less).
(BTW Texas has a litany of questions about your behavior and performance in med school and residency as well.)

 

[crossfit4lyfe]

Any school you matriculate into is going to do a background check.... so if they don't ask on the secondary they will find out later...

 

[deleted436726]

I do not have any arrests, charges or convictions

Riiiiiight.

 

[puppylatte]

Riiiiiight.

Thanks for answering the question. /s

It is of no consequence what my motive is for posting as I am anonymous. But ok, keep trolling and stifling discussion by antagonizing OPs for a laugh.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Just heard back from a particular school regarding my situation and they suggested the following...

Submit a copy of a background check (which comes back clean as I've had no convictions) along with my application. The lady in admissions told me this will help clear up any questions the admission committee may have about my answering YES to charges...

@Goro @gyngyn does this sound like a reasonable thing to do for other schools as well, where an applicant must check the YES box?

 

[gyngyn]

Just heard back from a particular school regarding my situation and they suggested the following...

Submit a copy of a background check (which comes back clean as I've had no convictions) along with my application. The lady in admissions told me this will help clear up any questions the admission committee may have about my answering YES to charges...

@Goro @gyngyn does this sound like a reasonable thing to do for other schools as well, where an applicant must check the YES box?

There are different levels of background checks depending on hopital affiliations. You may need to pass a government level evaluation to get a hospital badge at some schools. We would not expect you to bring your own background check!

 

[yanks26dmb]

There are different levels of background checks depending on hopital affiliations. You may need to pass a government level evaluation to get a hospital badge at some schools. We would not expect you to bring your own background check!

For what it's worth, I ran a Live Scan background check which apparently looks into the DOJ records (higher than that of standard medical school background checks, but on par with hospital checks, I believe). I suppose I'm just wondering if this is advisable (as one admission office indicated) to show the adcom there are no issues which would prevent me from getting a badge, or in another words, so I'm not rejected based on a worry about charges from a decade plus ago.

 

[Goro]

100% concur!

There are different levels of background checks depending on hopital affiliations. You may need to pass a government level evaluation to get a hospital badge at some schools. We would not expect you to bring your own background check!

 

[dewman]

Wow, this is really informative. I had no idea they could ask about simple citations. Last year I got a ticket for an open can of alcohol on the beach. I completely forgot until reading this thread. The "cop" actually wrote me a really cheap ticket because I told him that I legitimately thought that it was permitted on the beach I was on since neighboring ones were alcohol friendly. Would something like this need to be recorded on a secondary? This really seems silly.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Wow, this is really informative. I had no idea they could ask about simple citations. Last year I got a ticket for an open can of alcohol on the beach. I completely forgot until reading this thread. The "cop" actually wrote me a really cheap ticket because I told him that I legitimately thought that it was permitted on the beach I was on since neighboring ones were alcohol friendly. Would something like this need to be recorded on a secondary? This really seems silly.

I've had something similar happen to me. It was regarded as an infraction, which is a level below a misdemeanor. It's on par with not wearing a safety belt in a car. Infractions, in California, are not crimes. You must read the application carefully. if it says have you ever been arrested, charged with a CRIME, convicted, etc. I would say no...as did the lawyer I contacted. That said, this happened in California, so it may be different where you're located.

 

[Goro]

If the prompt asks for it (citations), then do so. It will be read and then promptly ignored.

Wow, this is really informative. I had no idea they could ask about simple citations. Last year I got a ticket for an open can of alcohol on the beach. I completely forgot until reading this thread. The "cop" actually wrote me a really cheap ticket because I told him that I legitimately thought that it was permitted on the beach I was on since neighboring ones were alcohol friendly. Would something like this need to be recorded on a secondary? This really seems silly.

 

[Seth Joo]

Because we don't want students who are thieves, thugs, have addiction issues, fail to accept responsibility for their actions, or learn from their mistakes, for one.

The medical licensing board may not ask about your arrest/conviction history, but hospitals do. Med schools do not want to graduate people who can't get jobs, so that's why you can expect nearly every medical school to ask about this on secondaries.

But if you'd rather be right than President, by all means have it your way.

What about people who got arrested at protests? What about people who are racially profiled? They're "thugs" and "irresponsible" people???

People of certain ethnic groups are frequently targeted by law enforcement for no other reason than their appearance.

 

[techguy07]

Campbell specifically states to report and moving violations or citations in their secondary.

As Goro has said, It's simply a test to see if a) you'll be upfront and honest with your mistakes and b) you show that you've grown and corrected yourself no matter how measly a mistake it was.

Wow I totally missed moving violations on Campbell's secondary. Should I email them with an amended secondary and apologize for my mistake or wait to try to fix this after an interview (if I get one)? Hope missing something this silly won't make them overlook me and kill my chances at this school.

 

[Goro]

Wooo, the thin-skinned are coming out. Hospitals don't care about crap like this...they're worried about people who commit crimes of moral; turpitude or had drug issues.

Racial profiling has nothing to do with the five bags of cocaine in your trunk, or arrests period, it's about prejudging people and hassling them just because of the color of their skin...you know, driving while black?

I've actually interviewed people who got arrested at protests. We accepted them.

Whether or not they're targeted unfairly has nothing to do with convictions for the crimes I mentioned above.

What about people who got arrested at protests? What about people who are racially profiled? They're "thugs" and "irresponsible" people???

People of certain ethnic groups are frequently targeted by law enforcement for no other reason than their appearance.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Wow I totally missed moving violations on Campbell's secondary. Should I email them with an amended secondary and apologize for my mistake or wait to try to fix this after an interview (if I get one)? Hope missing something this silly won't make them overlook me and kill my chances at this school.

I missed moving violations too. I contacted admissions, and they were happy to allow me to update my secondary. It didn't seem like a big deal.

 

[Goro]

In all my years on the Adcom, we've never dinged anyone for moving violations. Multiple DUI? Absolutely.

I missed moving violations too. I contacted admissions, and they were happy to allow me to update my secondary. It didn't seem like a big deal.

 

[techguy07]

In all my years on the Adcom, we've never dinged anyone for moving violations. Multiple DUI? Absolutely.

I was more worried that by not adding the moving violations it would look like I was (for some reason) trying to hide them. I'm assuming being looked at as dishonest is the kiss of death in this process and that's what I'm trying to avoid here, not really worried about the moving violations themselves.

 

[karling]

.

 

[Seth Joo]

Wooo, the thin-skinned are coming out. Hospitals don't care about crap like this...they're worried about people who commit crimes of moral; turpitude or had drug issues.

Racial profiling has nothing to do with the five bags of cocaine in your trunk, or arrests period, it's about prejudging people and hassling them just because of the color of their skin...you know, driving while black?

I've actually interviewed people who got arrested at protests. We accepted them.

Whether or not they're targeted unfairly has nothing to do with convictions for the crimes I mentioned above.

Well thanks for clearing that up.

 

[PKA<0]

In all my years on the Adcom, we've never dinged anyone for moving violations. Multiple DUI? Absolutely.

What about an expunged public intox ticket from 2 years ago, where said applicant has learned from his mistake?

Also said person has 1000 hours clinical experience as an EMT and medical scribe.

 

[Seth Joo]

Wooo, the thin-skinned are coming out. Hospitals don't care about crap like this...they're worried about people who commit crimes of moral; turpitude or had drug issues.

Racial profiling has nothing to do with the five bags of cocaine in your trunk, or arrests period, it's about prejudging people and hassling them just because of the color of their skin...you know, driving while black?

I've actually interviewed people who got arrested at protests. We accepted them.

Whether or not they're targeted unfairly has nothing to do with convictions for the crimes I mentioned above.

I have never had any legal problems or any issues with the law myself, but I have known people who have been targeted simply for their appearance and racial background. I'm from Boston, the weird thing about our police department is that we have a division that actually investigates racism and discrimination.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Please list schools that did not ask about charges or arrests on your secondary. I know all of them probably ask about convictions, but that is reasonable since conviction means guilt. Arrested and charged means "suspected."

I do not have any arrests, charges or convictions but I have fairly strong personal reasons for not giving a school that asks about arrests/charges my money. For one, the AAMC states that applications ask about misdemeanor or felony convictions. So that's their stance on the issue. It is only individual schools that ask for arrests/charges.

I realize this post may generate a "lol wut. u mad bro?" kind of response, but I feel strongly about "innocent until proven guilty." Someone I care about was falsely arrested thanks to a cluster B personality disordered individual with an agenda, so I do have experience which causes me to take a stand.

Before posting this I looked up the medical licensing board for my state and they do not ask for arrests/charges on the application. So why should a school care? Am I missing something?

I see that you have a good reason why you would take a stand against schools that want to probe for information like this, but with all due respect, the unfortunate incident of your friend was a fault with the local PD, not a fault with the schools, no?

 

[Goro]

We'd ignore this too. Keep in mind that for any of these, one might get a self-righteous interviewer, who will probably ask you in depth about something like this.

What about an expunged public intox ticket from 2 years ago, where said applicant has learned from his mistake?

Also said person has 1000 hours clinical experience as an EMT and medical scribe.

 

[yanks26dmb]

I have never had any legal problems or any issues with the law myself, but I have known people who have been targeted simply for their appearance and racial background. I'm from Boston, the weird thing about our police department is that we have a division that actually investigates racism and discrimination.

You're from Boston...this doesn't sound weird at all.

 

[puppylatte]

I see that you have a good reason why you would take a stand against schools that want to probe for information like this, but with all due respect, the unfortunate incident of your friend was a fault with the local PD, not a fault with the schools, no?

You misunderstood the argument I was making. Let me clarify the original post. It has nothing to do with my "friend," (actually, it is a family member). That was only additional information for people who would wonder why I would take a strong stance on the issue. I don't want to submit primaries to schools that ask about charges/arrests on the secondary. Schools ask for charges/arrests on secondaries yet they do post-acceptance/pre-matriculation background checks. So why ask on the secondary at all? This potentially biases the ADCOM. @gyngyn already cleared up my question by saying that they want to ensure students can rotate. I can live with that, and furthermore it would seem that asking about arrests on the secondary is because Certiphi isn't comprehensive enough to show arrests? But I'm only speculating on the reason there.

Remember, arrests and charges do not imply guilt. They imply that a single police officer in a single police department of thousands across the nation suspected that you did something wrong. If you were actually guilty, you would have got a conviction. I found it very strange that medical schools would potentially bias themselves against candidates based on some random police officer's hunch, when that police officer knows that if he arrests the wrong dude the courts will sort it out properly.

I hope that clears it up.

 

[Seth Joo]

You're from Boston...this doesn't sound weird at all.

You could be investigated by the Boston Police department for making "racist comments". I think that is a bit extreme, people say a lot of bad things, sometimes out of context, sometimes in a poor mental state.