list of top/middle/lower tier programs

[Svmophtho]

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Hi! I'm a medical student on my research year between 3rd and 4th years at a U.S. medical school. I will be applying in ophthalmology this coming year. I had a few questions for attendings, residents, and of course those who applied/matched this year:
1. Is there some exhaustive list of top/middle/lower tier programs in the U.S.? I've been google searching but maybe I'm missing something...
2. When did people who did aways start contacting away sites? I realize many schools use the VSAS program but some do not. How did you all go about this? I would ideally like to stay in the northeast U.S., and although there's quite a few programs, I feel like away rotations fill up quickly.
3. How did you all structure your 4th year? Did you find it necessary to fit in, for example, a medicine sub-I before September (application deadline) or did you focus your first few months on just ophtho rotations?

Thank you in advance for replying! Congrats to all who matched yesterday!

 

[The Doctor]

1. There are no such comprehensive lists that I know of. The Ophthalmology Times will occasionally rank the top 10 programs in different areas, but nothing beyond that. Some people looked at USNews programs rankings for ophthalmology programs, but that is not really helpful IMHO. If you search the forum, people have tried to come up with lists before, but I've never seen applicants take the entire list of programs and stratify them. I think it could be helpful to do so for future applicants, maybe into groups like Elite, Top Tier, Middle Tier, and Lower Tier (or maybe combine Middle and Lower into "Other Programs"). I would hesitate to do so for several reasons. First off, I wouldn't want to offend anyone especially after interviewing at numerous programs from different tiers, I've seen even the lesser known programs all adhere to minimum standards and have great people. Secondly, what criteria would you use? Surgical volume? Clinical volume? Academic reputation? There are programs like Florida for example where they are well known for a large volume and good clinical training but less known for academics. With that said, I agree with you and think that a list would be a nice starting point for people to build their applications from. I just don't think you'd ever get people to agree as to what that list should be.
2. Normally the traditional wisdom is that away rotations are not necessary or necessarily helpful, though from looking at this year's match countdown thread it looks like there are numerous applicants who would disagree with this. They can better comment as to when to do one - I think they are most helpful if you have a lower board score or come from a lesser known school or have other hang-ups with your application where you feel like doing an away would at least get them to look at your application. Since you are taking a year off anyway, you've got the time, so might as well.
3. I would try to submit your ophtho application 3 weeks before the target date. I really think having it in a little early can give you just a bit of advantage for getting the early round of interviews going out. The sub-I for medicine you want to have done at least by oct 1st I think so that you can ask for letters to submit by the Nov.1st ERAS deadline, but preferably I would have those in earlier.

 

[Svmophtho]

Thank you for your reply. When you say doing away rotations on my year off, what do you mean exactly? I guess I'm not technically considered a "medical student" this year because I am researching and it seems the process is pretty strict: away rotations are meant for medical students on rotations. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[taco bell]

I'd like to think that the program I matched at is now considered a top tier program : D

 

[xanthomondo]

I'd like to think that the program I matched at is now considered a top tier program : D

The fact that my program matched me instantly makes them a top tier program

 

[EyeFun]

As the others said, there are lots of things that make a program "top tier". After going on numerous interviews it seems like even highly qualified applicants ended up choosing locations based on factors like geography instead of surgical volume, prestige, research, etc. If you have any inclination of going into academics it's a little different, and you best go to a program on US News and World Report if you can. Otherwise, I felt that almost all the programs were the same overall and it doesn't seem like people have problems being an ophthalmologist once they graduate. Therefore, I agree that a comprehensive list may not be wise for fear of offending programs and the programs are also constantly in flux with residents and faculty moving around year to year bringing new things to each program and programs trying to improve based on resident feedback.

I did two away rotations and the culture at those two and my home institution were all different and I got to see which one I liked. That's where I really think the away rotation was helpful. If you plan on doing an ophtho away though, do your best to know a little bit before going in and if you have any opportunity to practice exam skills beforehand, that's helpful as well. At the same time, in my opinion, the most important thing for ophtho rotations is initiative and interest rather than how skilled you are.

 

[tm12]

How about instead of ranking we update the compendium with our impressions of each program with which we're familiar.

 

[Visionary]

Agree that there is not, nor will there ever be, such a complete rank list. As has been stated above, there are many factors that go into determining how strong a program is, and they vary depending on your goals. Even the Ophthalmology Times list has to be taken with a grain of salt. It is based on the votes of ophthalmology program directors, which are generally at academic institutions. Not surprisingly, most academicians have trained at the perennial top 10 institutions. Like EyeFun said, if you plan to go into academics, you should definitely shoot for one of those top 10 programs. If not, there are many strong clinical training programs with good fellowship match statistics outside of that top 10. I suggest you get input from as many sources as you can when deciding where to apply and how to rank your programs. Also realize that most of these sources will have some bias, because ophthalmology is such a small community. The best advice will percolate to the top. Add in your regional preferences and gut reactions from interviews, and you will have a good list for you. That's the best advice I can give you.