Should I still list this if my Sub I is in September?
Actually I confirmed with my advisor at school, you shouldn’t list rotations in this section, it’s only really listed by IMG’s who have been out of medical school for years and need to show that they were actively involved in patient care, for USMD and DO students it is expected that you are doing clinical rotations and subI/audition rotations your fourth year and all your third year stuff should already be in your mspe and transcript , so it would be redundant to put it on there and might come off as you trying to add fluff to your application. Now it probably doesn’t matter if you do put it in there but it’d just be overkill unless your an FMG who graduated medical school in another country like three years ago.
What specialty are you applying? My school doesn't put them on our MSPE/transcript either, but the supplemental app for IM has a section for meaningful experiences and I mentioned my sub-I there (it states that you can mention clinical experiences and rotations/sub-Is is a category).
Yea in the supplemental application it says you can( if you thought it was a particularly meaningful experience that impacted you)but in the actual eras application I was told not to by my medical school advisor, it would be expected that you are doing rotations and auditions. That section is mainly for stuff you did outside of school/rotations.
Yeah I agree. Just giving the OP another option to make sure they make the fact that they did a sub-I known. It sucks that our schools screw us in all these stupid little ways. I got great evals from my sub-I, but no one will ever see them, so unless I explicitly make it known I did a sub-I (and get a LOR), it won't help my app at all. Just upsetting.
Away SubI’s/audtions are more for helping you match at a particular program anyway since they get to see you, sure a strong letter from an away SubI/audition helps but also think of it this way.. a PD from a “rival”program will be like damn he/she rotated there, got a letter from faculty/Pd there and so they clearly like it there and they like him/her too and they might rank you lower because they think you are going to rank the other program higher, stuff like that can subconsciously impact how other programs view you/rank you. This is why in most specialties (other than maybe Em and the surgical subs) away rotations aren’t a big deal if your app is average/above average from what I have heard.
I appreciate your response, would you still recommend listing it under work experiences or perhaps under the new meaningful experience supplemental section recommend by fldoctorgirl above? I was advised to forgo the supplemental section entirely by our IM chair because evidently little attention is given to this section currently.
IM, appreciate the rec, not a bad idea
Appreciate the advice; however, I am always leery of advice from medical school advisors, and Sub-I’s aren’t necessarily expected/required by most DO programs. Also, as a DO student, I’d think it’d be valuable to showcase Sub-I experience from an academic program vs historically DO community program sub-I experience if possible.
Your school is wrong, list it. I forgot where I put mine, but they were definitely there. My current residency specifically asked during the interview if I had done rotations with residents. People do care.
Yes it matters, list it, I did three subi’s/aways at university programs, and while I didn’t match at those programs, I matched somewhere academic that definitely cared. The experience definitely matters to some places.
So you would recommend putting this in the actual ERAS app?
My mspe makes it clear that I did rotations with residents. Also with covid and the fact that you can only do 1 away rotation, putting more than one in your eras app can actually hurt you more than help you. Also it’s specialty dependent, in something like IM, most people including DO’s can totally get away without rotatating at an academic center if they have the stats and the app. Away rotations at academic centers are mostly useless in something like IM.
Also another thing, what will simply putting that I did a sub I at “university of X or Y” even mean to most PD’s or people reviewing the app? A sub-I at one place can be vastly different than another sub I, each academic center gives students a different level of responsibility and just simply listing it thier doesn’t tell them how you performed unless you get an LOR out of it, in which case it’s still pointless to put it in there. If randomly asked on your interview you can talk about it and so it’s still pointless to put it on your eras app when you aren’t expected to put rotations in a section which is designed for extracurricular stuff unless your like an IMG out of rotations for years. I discussed this ad-nauseem with an advisor at my school who is a program director for IM. Maybe you were asked about if you ever rotated with residents because your mspe probably didn’t mention if you ever worked with residents?
I mean, that's awesome for you, but a lot of ours don't. If yours does-- and also includes your 4th year rotations-- that's awesome for you. But this question is for those of us without that option: my school makes zero mention of any part of 4th year on my MSPE or transcripts. It also doesn't specify that any of my rotations were with residents (even though they were). From a brief google search, it seems like some people actually do advise mentioning a specific rotation on ERAS if you want to highlight it. So I wouldn't give blanket advice just because that's what your school advisor told you about your specific situation. I'm undecided about whether I will highlight my sub-I or not yet, but it doesn't seem as black and white as you're making it.
Just be careful you don’t make it known that you did more than 1 away rotation despite the AAMC saying you can only do one, some programs may DNR you since you went against the guidelines. Just food for thought.
I did, and I do recommend it. I don’t remember which section, I think I did experiences. I debated it up and down what I should do, but I had rotations at some strong programs and wanted to let people know that I did that. I got asked about my rotations (specially wanting to know about inpatient teams with residents and academic) enough times, especially on the medicine side, that I am convinced it made a difference. My school also didn’t mention anything from fourth year in my MSPE, so if I didn’t tell no one know.
I'm leaning towards listing it. I should be getting a LOR from the rotation, so that would be the only reason I wouldn't list it (since they'll obviously see the LOR). But I may just put it anyways. Thank you for the advice.
