Listing Unproductive Research Internship on AMCAS?

[eat_this_vegetable]

I have been told not to include un-meaningful material on the AMCAS applications.

I have two summer research internships that I'd done but that were unproductive (I just ended up helping a post-doc with his lab-work). Should I include this in the descriptions? Learning lab techniques?

Advice pls.

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[ifnotnowwren]

I mean you don't need to specifically state that it was "unproductive". (does that just mean no paper/poster? I wouldn't call that unproductive) Really evaluate your time there. You learned lab techniques, you learned about the research process, you learned about the field, etc. Don't worry, they don't give you many characters for the descriptions, a few sentences about what you learned and what the focus of the lab was will probably get you to the character limit easily. You aren't applying for a PhD, it's ok that you aren't super passionate about research and it's ok that you haven't published. You should list the experience on AMCAs, otherwise the question they will ask will be "What did they do for those two summers?". Now would I write your PS or secondaries on the experience or select it as one of your AMCAs most meaningful experiences if you didn't find it particularly meaningful? Probably not.

 

[eat_this_vegetable]

I mean you don't need to specifically state that it was "unproductive". (does that just mean no paper/poster? I wouldn't call that unproductive) Really evaluate your time there. You learned lab techniques, you learned about the research process, you learned about the field, etc. Don't worry, they don't give you many characters for the descriptions, a few sentences about what you learned and what the focus of the lab was will probably get you to the character limit easily. You aren't applying for a PhD, it's ok that you aren't super passionate about research and it's ok that you haven't published. You should list the experience on AMCAs, otherwise the question they will ask will be "What did they do for those two summers?". Now would I write your PS or secondaries on the experience or select it as one of your AMCAs most meaningful experiences if you didn't find it particularly meaningful? Probably not.

Good point, but you think it's OK to include that you learned research techniques?
I was thinking that that was pretty lame

 

[ifnotnowwren]

Good point, but you think it's OK to include that you learned research techniques?

I did on my apps. I think it's ok because it helps you understand the research process, the research timeline and it could help you understand scientific papers as well. For instance, the first year I participated in research it was all PCR and Western Blots all the time. "Lame"? Perhaps. But I can tell you that it gave context to my biology and biochem classes when research techniques were being discussed. Having to do a procedure that took all day or two full days helped me understand why research moves at the pace it does. When I encountered those techniques in papers, I knew what was up, I knew what an appropriate protocol is, and it helped me interpret results sections. To be fair, I've spent a lot of time in the lab, so lab techniques eventually included a lot more than PCR and Western Blots and I definitely felt justified in mentioning them. It's your call, but it could at least show that you had actual lab experience and weren't just doing odd jobs around the lab or something?

 

[eat_this_vegetable]

I did on my apps. I think it's ok because it helps you understand the research process, the research timeline and it could help you understand scientific papers as well. For instance, the first year I participated in research it was all PCR and Western Blots all the time. "Lame"? Perhaps. But I can tell you that it gave context to my biology and biochem classes when research techniques were being discussed. Having to do a procedure that took all day or two full days helped me understand why research moves at the pace it does. When I encountered those techniques in papers, I knew what was up, I knew what an appropriate protocol is, and it helped me interpret results sections. To be fair, I've spent a lot of time in the lab, so lab techniques eventually included a lot more than PCR and Western Blots and I definitely felt justified in mentioning them. It's your call, but it could at least show that you had actual lab experience and weren't just doing odd jobs around the lab or something?

I can dig that

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

I can dig that

OP, if you dont eat your damn vegetables..

 

[eat_this_vegetable]

OP, if you dont eat your damn vegetables..

:O

 

[RuggerMD]

I have been told not to include un-meaningful material on the AMCAS applications.

I have two summer research internships that I'd done but that were unproductive (I just ended up helping a post-doc with his lab-work). Should I include this in the descriptions? Learning lab techniques?

Advice pls.

I don't think that schools look for research for your technical skills (although they are nice). I think it is more of the transferable ones, like communication, organization, study design, attention to detail, that are more important for an MD application. I'd think of 'productivity' as something beyond publishing and into your growth as a human and professional. Did you learn anything from him about science? Did you learn anything about yourself or academia? Did learn (or apply your knowledge) to digest relevant scientific literature? Those types of questions are the questions I would ask as an ADCOM which, mind you, I am not.

 

[eat_this_vegetable]

I don't think that schools look for research for your technical skills (although they are nice). I think it is more of the transferable ones, like communication, organization, study design, attention to detail, that are more important for an MD application. I'd think of 'productivity' as something beyond publishing and into your growth as a human and professional. Did you learn anything from him about science? Did you learn anything about yourself or academia? Did learn (or apply your knowledge) to digest relevant scientific literature? Those types of questions are the questions I would ask as an ADCOM which, mind you, I am not.

idk the way I imagine adcoms, if I put that I learned something about my self from an internship they're gonna be like "look at this kid trying to bull**** me, he's just another noob".

 

[RuggerMD]

idk the way I imagine adcoms, if I put that I learned something about my self from an internship they're gonna be like "look at this kid trying to bull**** me, he's just another noob".

Totally possible if you really didn't learn anything beyond techniques. ADCOMs have quite the ability to sniff out dishonesty. For me, writing about those things felt right because they were true. If you don't feel right writing something, don't. I was just probing you to think a little deeper about your experience and what you got from it.

I would caution that self reflection appears to be highly valued these days. Don't totally discount it.

 

[21Rush12]

I listed my research for credit, even though nothing came of it. We had high hopes for some isolation and model construction, but after two semesters all we ended with were some really elaborate and expensive ways to destroy fragile compounds and kill zillions of bacteria at the same time. Sometimes things just don't yield results, but I think you should give yourself credit for putting the work in and having the experience.

 

[robin911]

I have been told not to include un-meaningful material on the AMCAS applications.

I have two summer research internships that I'd done but that were unproductive (I just ended up helping a post-doc with his lab-work). Should I include this in the descriptions? Learning lab techniques?

Advice pls.

I think that helping a post-doc with their research that they will probably publish is the opposite of unproductive.

My questions are: did you get anything out of the research experience? did you learn about the post-docs research which will contribute to the scientific field? did you learn about the scientific method? Did you fail at some lab technique and then go through experimental method to perfect it? Did you have meetings with your PI or mentor about the project? Would you be able to describe your role in the post-docs project to an interviewer?

If you answer yes to these questions, I would say that it is worthy of including it on the AMCAS app. especially because it is two separate research projects for two summers, which is a substantial amount of time in my opinion.

 

[eat_this_vegetable]

I think that helping a post-doc with their research that they will probably publish is the opposite of unproductive.

My questions are: did you get anything out of the research experience? did you learn about the post-docs research which will contribute to the scientific field? did you learn about the scientific method? Did you fail at some lab technique and then go through experimental method to perfect it? Did you have meetings with your PI or mentor about the project? Would you be able to describe your role in the post-docs project to an interviewer?

If you answer yes to these questions, I would say that it is worthy of including it on the AMCAS app. especially because it is two separate research projects for two summers, which is a substantial amount of time in my opinion.

thanks bros of pre-allo,
may your apps be forever swoll

 

[maxwell_edison]

I'd list it. Nothing comes of most research; and for the purposes of learning (and hence, med school) a well done study/project with unremarkable outcomes is valuable.

You could publish in the Journal of Negative Results in Biomedicine. http://jnrbm.biomedcentral.com/