Littman v Welch Allyn

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

jlynn

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Because I learned this the hard way, I wanted to post this thread so others could learn from my experience should they be interested. I'm currently one year out, completing a small animal rotating internship. Lately I've spent a lot of time with a couple cardiologists and have learned a few things.


Early into my first year at vet school a very wise Littman Stethoscope sales rep hit up our entire class with a convincing monologue about how their brand of stethoscope was the greatest in all the universe. Not only that, but they were also going to cut us a huge, never before unheard of deal! Only for today, we could get the greatest of the great Littman Cardiology III stethoscope for a mere $180, a huge savings from their usual price of $220.


Naturally, that rep sold about 80 stethoscopes that day to 80 very happy and uneducated veterinary students. And life went on, I was very happy with my brand spanking new Littman Cardiology III. That is until recently…


I have gotten to work closely with two cardiologists lately, one of whom used to be faculty for Tufts University. Neither of them uses a Littman. In fact, I was amazed at the things I could pick up with both of their stethoscopes that I couldn’t even come close to hearing with mine, especially in the smaller patients and cats in particular. I would always auscult first. On multiple cats I couldn’t hear a murmur at all with my stethoscope, and could plain as day with theirs.


Now, one of them used a stethoscope that is no longer produced and currently sells for over 2K, that’s obviously out of my price range currently (and let’s be honest, probably permanently!). But the other actually sells for ½ of the price my Littman Cardiology III sells for. It was a Welch Allyn. The pediatric bell is essential for differentiating what valve a murmur is being produced by. And the shorter the tubing, the less distance the sound has to travel through and the better the auscultation achieved. While these shorter tubes are more annoying to hang around your neck, 25” is much more ideal, and come on, you’re not supposed to wear your stethoscope as an accessory, ruins the tubing right?


Now Littman definitely seems to have taken over the veterinary profession, at least everywhere I’ve practiced, but apparently it’s less than ideal compared to others in the eyes of a cardiologist. I’m currently looking into ordering mine own Welch Allyn, and my Littman Cardiology III will soon hang desolate from my wall.

Members don't see this ad.
 
So...don't buy Welch Allyn is what you're telling me. Okay, if you say so.
 
I am very happy with my littman, and I do an excellent job detecting soft murmurs (frequently when other more experienced people dont). We have 2 cardiologists at my practice, one uses a Welch allyn and the other uses a littman. They are both good brands. Some people find one personally better for them than the other, which is why it is always best to try before you buy if possible. However, what brand of stethoscope you have (as long as it's not a cheapo disposable one) ultimately doesn't replace having good clinical and auditory skills.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
One of the cardiologists at our school tells us his top two stethoscopes in our cardiovascular system course. His top one is the welch allyn harvey elite. His second choice is the Littmann cardio III. I work at the school's student run veterinary supply store and we stock both. From what I've been told, if you're going to be doing mostly small animal go with the harvey elite but if you are going to be doing more large animal go with the littmann. I don't quite remember the reason though.
 
If I wasn't going into clinical pathology I would have bought a Welch Allyn Harvey Elite. With that said the Littman Classic II I was given is fine for everyday use and once I had cardio and really got a lot of practice with murmurs I feel comfortable using my Littman. I have picked up grade 1-2 murmurs without spending big bucks on a fancy stethoscope. Like someone said above, having good instruction and practicing are so important.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
It is totally personal. It is pretty silly to say one is inarguably better than the other. You just have to try them out and figure out which works better for you. The OP knows cardiologists who swear by their W-A. I know cardiologists who swear by their Littmans.

Seems to me that says it all right there.



Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
 
It is totally personal. It is pretty silly to say one is inarguably better than the other. You just have to try them out and figure out which works better for you. The OP knows cardiologists who swear by their W-A. I know cardiologists who swear by their Littmans.

Seems to me that says it all right there.



Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

I agree - it's not just the quality of the build, it's also the fit and how it's used --- very personal, and one is no more "right" than the other one.
 
I'm worried when I need to get a stethoscope I'm going to have a very hard time. I've had 10 ear surgeries and permanently some hearing loss and every stethoscope I have tried really hurts my ears, the ear pieces and the sound. One veterinarian said her ear buds were extra small, and they still killed me.
 
I'm worried when I need to get a stethoscope I'm going to have a very hard time. I've had 10 ear surgeries and permanently some hearing loss and every stethoscope I have tried really hurts my ears, the ear pieces and the sound. One veterinarian said her ear buds were extra small, and they still killed me.
What about the electronic steths? have you tried one out?

I prefer my W-A Harvey Elite. that being said, Littmans are also very, very good.
 
What about the electronic steths? have you tried one out?

I prefer my W-A Harvey Elite. that being said, Littmans are also very, very good.


No I have not, I'll keep that in mind! Thanks 🙂
 
No I have not, I'll keep that in mind! Thanks 🙂

You might need one with custom-molded ear buds.... If that's available for stethoscopes. I use custom molded for music, but dunno if it is available for steths. I know one vet who is extremely hard of hearing and another who is functionally deaf - they manage. You will too!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I honestly haven't had an issue with my Cardio III. I've picked up on very subtle murmurs (talking grade I and II) when other people have missed them. I think practicing and listein long enough are a big help too. I'm not planning on going into Cardio so I think my Littman will be just fine. I also have the Neonate one for my exotic patients and it makes a world of a difference in hearing murmurs in them.

I will say I've had people who use other Littmans comment on how much better the sound quality is on the Cardio III vs other models.
 
What about the electronic steths? have you tried one out?

I prefer my W-A Harvey Elite. that being said, Littmans are also very, very good.

What do you prefer about the W-A?

I like Littman a lot. I've been using the Classic II SE and have borrowed a Cardio III a few times to see the difference. I suck at auscultation regardless because I haven't learned how to do it properly yet but am planning on upgrading to either a Cardio III or Harvey Elite eventually. Just haven't had the chance to try out any W-A stethoscopes because everyone I work with uses a Littman. It sort of seems like the differences aren't that significant for most people and that the biggest factor is your own ability. Is that accurate? Or do you think getting a "better fit" can help you learn a little easier?
 
What do you prefer about the W-A?

I like Littman a lot. I've been using the Classic II SE and have borrowed a Cardio III a few times to see the difference. I suck at auscultation regardless because I haven't learned how to do it properly yet but am planning on upgrading to either a Cardio III or Harvey Elite eventually. Just haven't had the chance to try out any W-A stethoscopes because everyone I work with uses a Littman. It sort of seems like the differences aren't that significant for most people and that the biggest factor is your own ability. Is that accurate? Or do you think getting a "better fit" can help you learn a little easier?
I like that the quality of sound is better. But everything is a personal fit.
 
I own a bunch of stethoscopes. I really like my cardio III and I like my Heine cardio. I found the Heine cardio easier for listening to large animal hearts. The sound just seemed louder. I also much prefer the Heine pediatric I have compared to the Littman ped ones I've tried. That being said, I still reach for my cardio III over anything else, on the regular.
 
Top