Loan payback time?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

premed1234567891011

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
198
Reaction score
134
How many years could I realistically expect it to take me to pay back med school loans if I'm borrowing $45,000 in Stafford loans for 4 years of med school. Assuming I pay back aggressively and live frugally during residency and the first few years as an attending.

Members don't see this ad.
 
probs like 3-8 years after residency depending on specialty. closer to 4-5 if you're smart about it, which it sounds like you will be
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
probs like 3-8 years depending on specialty. closer to 4-5 if you're smart about it, which it sounds like you will be
Unless the OP actually means that he's borrowing 45K TOTAL for all four years of medical school, this is absurd. 45K times four years of medical school is 180K. An average resident makes a little more than 50K pre-tax. There is NO way you can pay back everything within 3-5 years.
 
Unless the OP actually means that he's borrowing 45K TOTAL for all four years of medical school, this is absurd. 45K times four years of medical school is 180K. An average resident makes a little more than 50K pre-tax. There is NO way you can pay back everything within 3-5 years.
I meant after residency, just edited my post to clarify that
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Are you borrowing 45K a year or 45K total? The latter is obviously easier to pay back sooner than the former. But let's assume 45K a year in unsubsidized loans accruing interest at about 6%. That means that your loans will double around 12 years from disbursement if my math is right. So at the end of med school, say you've taken out 45K a year - that means around 200K at graduation. You probably won't be able to pay much as a resident since residents aren't paid much and they usually live in areas with higher costs of living (unless you're in Rochester, MN). But you can still take an income-based repayment option and pay off at least some of the interest so that it's not compounded. Even if you live frugally and make your payments during residency, you'll probably still have at least around 200K in principal since your residency payments probably only cover just the interest. From there, you can figure out what a doctor starting out in your specialty makes per year in take-home pay and taking some money out for cost-of-living (you likely have some semblance of a family at this point), you can figure out how long it would take for you to pay back that debt.
 
Are you borrowing 45K a year or 45K total? The latter is obviously easier to pay back sooner than the former. But let's assume 45K a year in unsubsidized loans accruing interest at about 6%. That means that your loans will double around 12 years from disbursement if my math is right. So at the end of med school, say you've taken out 45K a year - that means around 200K at graduation. You probably won't be able to pay much as a resident since residents aren't paid much and they usually live in areas with higher costs of living (unless you're in Rochester, MN). But you can still take an income-based repayment option and pay off at least some of the interest so that it's not compounded. Even if you live frugally and make your payments during residency, you'll probably still have at least around 200K in principal since your residency payments probably only cover just the interest. From there, you can figure out what a doctor starting out in your specialty makes per year in take-home pay and taking some money out for cost-of-living (you likely have some semblance of a family at this point), you can figure out how long it would take for you to pay back that debt.
45K per year
 
I think 10 year repayments are standard? Starting from attending salary, you gotta do income-based during residency.

If you're in a particularly well paid field or are great with your money then you can probably cut that down to just a few years
 
How many years could I realistically expect it to take me to pay back med school loans if I'm borrowing $45,000 in Stafford loans for 4 years of med school. Assuming I pay back aggressively and live frugally during residency and the first few years as an attending.
Too many variables. If you're like me and willing to live in smaller populated areas, there are contracts around that you can sign to significantly decrease your loans. For example, a 3 year contract with a hospital/clinic in a city of 70k that offers to pay $40k a year to your loans. You could easily be loan free in 3 years and only actually pay ~$80k out of your own pocket.

Or live in an over populated city where you make less money + no loan repayment contract and are forced to pay all ~$200k out of your own pocket over probably 6-10 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think 10 year repayments are standard? Starting from attending salary, you gotta do income-based during residency.

I'm not sure if they're standard, but you definitely don't want to be paying them off in ten years. Interest keeps compounding so you always should put money towards the principal if you can and if you're an attending, you should be able to put money towards the principal so that you pay off the loan before the end of the repayment plan you're on. This is a good strategy for any loan, including a home. They'll usually have you on a thirty-year mortgage but you want to put extra money towards the principal every month so you pay it off in a lot less time - you pay much less in interest that way.
 
As @adol16 stated, putting additional principal and paying off the loan early is good. But to understand how this all works, looking at it from a full payback period will help. A few things here. You cant't look at paying back large debt from the amount of the loan but rather as the percentage of your income. As you get further into practice, your income will go up, thus as a percent of the income, your student loan repayment will go down

Each year you get a new loan, and from the day the school disperses the money until deferment period end (6 months after graduation) you get simple daily interest applied. That is just amount of yearly interest broken down in daily amounts and added up. At the end of the 6 month deferment the interest is capitalized into a new principal (ie becomes the new total loan amount as you essentially borrowed the interest money you now owe). You will have multiple loan sources (stafford, gradplus, direct/private) and may have a few equations per year but I will give you an example with private loans with $45,000 ($45K) and 7% interest This assumes dispersing in September year 1 and you graduate June year 4 starting repayment September year 4. Hence I have 12 month loan increments (this is a 3 month deferment you can go to 6 months, just easier for this example calculation)

Example: $45,000 tuition difference per year borrowed at 7%
year 1 $45,000 + $13,600 (48 months interest) = $58,600 capitalized
year 2 $45,000 + $9,450 (36 months interest) = $54,450 capitalized
year 3 $45,000 + $6,300 (24 months interest) = $51,300 capitalized
year 4 $45,000 + $3,150 (12 months interest) = $48,150 capitalized

Total loans capitalization 3 months after graduation is $212,500
So total difference of the tuition would mean $212,500 when you graduate

But what does this mean? If you dont estimate or model what the conditions will be for paying it back, it just be an enormous number. Lets assume that you can pay interest only back while in residency. Lets assume conservatively that you are in primary care which has an current average salary of $195,000. Also remember that your salary will increase as your career goes on but the cost of what you borrowed remains the same. In essence, the cost of borrowing becomes a decreasing percentage of your income and thus becomes "cheaper" to payback as you move forward in time. Just to give example of what this would cost to pay back over 25 years at 7% interest would be $1,501.91 a month or just under $18,022.92 a year or 9% of a current primary care average salary. And that percent would decrease as your salary increase.

So is the difference worth 9% of your monthly salary? $18,000 a year?
Really awesome breakdown. Only thing I have to add to this is if you plan on paying on your loans for 25 years all out of your own pocket, please refinance your loans to get under 5%. Heck, if you're not going to use any of the federal programs (like me), refinance ASAP and save yourself thousands of dollars for you and your family.
 
As @adol16 stated, putting additional principal and paying off the loan early is good. But to understand how this all works, looking at it from a full payback period will help. A few things here. You cant't look at paying back large debt from the amount of the loan but rather as the percentage of your income. As you get further into practice, your income will go up, thus as a percent of the income, your student loan repayment will go down

Each year you get a new loan, and from the day the school disperses the money until deferment period end (6 months after graduation) you get simple daily interest applied. That is just amount of yearly interest broken down in daily amounts and added up. At the end of the 6 month deferment the interest is capitalized into a new principal (ie becomes the new total loan amount as you essentially borrowed the interest money you now owe). You will have multiple loan sources (stafford, gradplus, direct/private) and may have a few equations per year but I will give you an example with private loans with $45,000 ($45K) and 7% interest This assumes dispersing in September year 1 and you graduate June year 4 starting repayment September year 4. Hence I have 12 month loan increments (this is a 3 month deferment you can go to 6 months, just easier for this example calculation)

Example: $45,000 tuition difference per year borrowed at 7%
year 1 $45,000 + $13,600 (48 months interest) = $58,600 capitalized
year 2 $45,000 + $9,450 (36 months interest) = $54,450 capitalized
year 3 $45,000 + $6,300 (24 months interest) = $51,300 capitalized
year 4 $45,000 + $3,150 (12 months interest) = $48,150 capitalized

Total loans capitalization 3 months after graduation is $212,500
So total difference of the tuition would mean $212,500 when you graduate

But what does this mean? If you dont estimate or model what the conditions will be for paying it back, it just be an enormous number. Lets assume that you can pay interest only back while in residency. Lets assume conservatively that you are in primary care which has an current average salary of $195,000. Also remember that your salary will increase as your career goes on but the cost of what you borrowed remains the same. In essence, the cost of borrowing becomes a decreasing percentage of your income and thus becomes "cheaper" to payback as you move forward in time. Just to give example of what this would cost to pay back over 25 years at 7% interest would be $1,501.91 a month or just under $18,022.92 a year or 9% of a current primary care average salary. And that percent would decrease as your salary increase.

So is the difference worth 9% of your monthly salary? $18,000 a year?

I would just like to add, since debt repayment is with post-tax income, it would be like paying $18,000/0.683 of your gross income or $26,000 (13.5% of your income).

For those with high debt who get into primary care, what are your thoughts on simply staying on IBR at 10% until PSLF arrives or simply paying 10% for the rest of your life?
 
I purposely made an "expensive" example to show how big scary number analyzed so they are manageable.

BTW, I have a 2.625% mortgage
I figured, but I just thought I'd add it in case people didn't account for that. Super nice to see it laid out like that though, so I appreciate it!

The things I would do to have that interest rate from the get-go...:laugh:
 
I would just like to add, since debt repayment is with post-tax income, it would be like paying $18,000/0.683 of your gross income or $26,000 (13.5% of your income).

For those with high debt who get into primary care, what are your thoughts on simply staying on IBR at 10% until PSLF arrives or simply paying 10% for the rest of your life?
Wouldn't count on PSLF being an option. What's "high debt"? $200k-$300k? Or $450k+?
 
Wouldn't count on PSLF being an option. What's "high debt"? $200k-$300k? Or $450k+?

I'm looking at a possible $350k, which is $40k of post-tax income per year under the 25-year payment model. Very hard to payback if I go into primary care. On the other hand with IBR it will be around $20-25k/year which is doable, but will also make it impossible to pay back in full (payback period 40+ years without loan forgiveness).
 
I haven't read all the posts, but there are a few things that should be clarified.

1. Student loan interest has an income threshold. Attendings will be unable to use this deduction

2. In the eyes of the IRS, 20k in loan repayment from an employer is no different than a 20k cash bonus--both will be taxed (yes, even if your employer makes the payment on your behalf, you will have a tax liability)
 
I'm looking at a possible $350k, which is $40k of post-tax income per year under the 25-year payment model. Very hard to payback if I go into primary care. On the other hand with IBR it will be around $20-25k/year which is doable, but will also make it impossible to pay back in full (payback period 40+ years without loan forgiveness).
That's tough. You're on the edge of where I'd say primary care isn't an option financially. If I were dead set on it though, I'd be willing to dig my heels in the ground and negotiate hard for some help paying it off with my employer. There are some rural areas that you could definitely make it happen with. It might be a 5 year commitment though if you want them to pay off a significant chunk.
 
I haven't read all the posts, but there are a few things that should be clarified.

1. Student loan interest has an income threshold. Attendings will be unable to use this deduction

2. In the eyes of the IRS, 20k in loan repayment from an employer is no different than a 20k cash bonus--both will be taxed (yes, even if your employer makes the payment on your behalf, you will have a tax liability)
For point #2- it changes if your loan forgiveness is through a state government program though, right? I thought I read that somewhere but could be wrong.
 
Are you borrowing 45K a year or 45K total? The latter is obviously easier to pay back sooner than the former. But let's assume 45K a year in unsubsidized loans accruing interest at about 6%. That means that your loans will double around 12 years from disbursement if my math is right. So at the end of med school, say you've taken out 45K a year - that means around 200K at graduation. You probably won't be able to pay much as a resident since residents aren't paid much and they usually live in areas with higher costs of living (unless you're in Rochester, MN). But you can still take an income-based repayment option and pay off at least some of the interest so that it's not compounded. Even if you live frugally and make your payments during residency, you'll probably still have at least around 200K in principal since your residency payments probably only cover just the interest. From there, you can figure out what a doctor starting out in your specialty makes per year in take-home pay and taking some money out for cost-of-living (you likely have some semblance of a family at this point), you can figure out how long it would take for you to pay back that debt.

I took at 40k per year. I ended with 180 after interest. It went up after residency. 5 year repayment on 230k is 4500/mo.
 
however education loan interest is tax deductible. assuming roughly 30%-35% tax bracket, that means you are essentially paying 1/3 less interest rate then is listed. So 7% effectively becomes 4.33% rate
Phases out at 130k AGI. I can't deduct any interest.
 
That's tough. You're on the edge of where I'd say primary care isn't an option financially. If I were dead set on it though, I'd be willing to dig my heels in the ground and negotiate hard for some help paying it off with my employer. There are some rural areas that you could definitely make it happen with. It might be a 5 year commitment though if you want them to pay off a significant chunk.

So, I was reading the promissory note I signed and looked at the options for REPAYE and IBR and it seems like there shouldn't be any problems under this plan. From what I read, loan forgiveness is clearly stipulated on the promissory note after 20 years and 25 years respectively, so if I'm understanding correctly the government has to uphold it. Perhaps PSLF may not be around but loan forgiveness should be.

From what I understand the main catch for both plans is the tax on the loan after the payment period is over. But say I have a student loan of 350k, which would be a total of 900k after 25 years let's say. So assuming a high end final balance of 600k, it will be taxed at 40% for a total payment of 240k is that right? That seems great if it were true. I know everyone's goals are different, but I'd rather "live like a resident" for a few years when I'm in my 60s rather than when I'm in my 30s. There's also the idea of saving gradually when I'm in the middle of my career rather than bleeding a high percentage of my income when I'm just starting.
 
Last edited:
So, I was reading the promissory note I signed and looked at the options for REPAYE and IBR and it seems like I shouldn't have any problems under this plan. First of all, loan forgiveness is clearly stipulated on the promissory note after 20 years and 25 years respectively, so I'm not sure why people are afraid that this won't be upheld. I get PSLF may not be around but loan forgiveness should be.

From what I understand the main catch for both plans is the tax on the loan after the payment period is over. But say I have a student loan of 350k, which would be a total of 900k after 25 years let's say. So assuming a high end final balance of 600k, it will be taxed at 40% for a total payment of 240k is that right? That seems great if it were true. I know everyone's goals are different, but I'd rather "live like a resident" for a few years when I'm in my 60s rather than when I'm in my 30s. There's also the idea of saving gradually when I'm in the middle of my career rather than bleeding a high percentage of my income when I'm just starting.
I agree that IBR and REPAYE will remain viable options. I just personally don't see PSLF making it, so I wouldn't tell anyone to pursue that route.

I think your math is right, but I am not very well versed on those programs. The way I understand it, though, is that the $240k is due at that moment. So you have to somehow save up $240k in the meantime to pay that off when it's due. If your loans are $350k and you're able to make your 10% payments like you said earlier for IBR, all while still saving up $240k, it sounds like you're paying a whole lot more than your probably could have if you just tackled it from the get-go. It is definitely personal preference though, so I know it's not like 1 plan works for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top